Communication Tools That Work

Have you ever, in the middle of marital conflict, called a timeout, taken a break? Rob Flood and his wife Gina say that's a great technique to employ when we're not communicating well with one another. Just because a conversation has started doesn't mean it has to end.

If it goes south, it doesn't mean you have to keep going in that direction. You can pause. Go to your neutral corners if need be for 15, 30 minutes. Come back together.

It's okay. I don't know how the conversation is going to go, but I'm ready to take your hand now. But I think those 10 or 15 minutes, how you use that time is key. Because if you use that time to nurture bitterness, anger, rehearse unhelpful, unkind words, you're going to come back and you're still not going to be ready to continue or move forward in the conversation.

I think that time really needs to be used with the Lord and laying that out there before the Lord so that He can soften you. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. There are tools or strategies we can employ as husband and wife that can help us do a better job of loving one another when we're not communicating well.

We'll talk about what those are with our guests, Rob and Gina Flood, today. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. I forget where I saw this or heard it, but somebody had an illustration one time. There was a couple pictured in conflict with one another. They're shouting at each other. And somebody says, you need to calm down. And the other person says, I can't calm down and I'm just angry. And then the phone rings. And the person who's in the middle of it, have you seen this? Right?

Yes. All of a sudden, hello? Something about the phone ringing or the doorbell, they can all of a sudden stop the anger that they were in. Oh, my kids one time, they were little. And I remember someone knocked at the door. I went to the door. I talked to the person at the door and I came back. And one of my kids said, Mom, why can't you be as nice to us as you are to the people that come to the door, the people on the phone? I think that was me. I don't think that was the kids. I was so convicted by that. We all do it.

We all do it. And we're talking this week about communication and about how we can do better in marital communication, because if you're not communicating well, you will be in isolation in marriage. Communication is one of those fundamental skills we spend time at the weekend to remember, get away talking about communication all weekend long, because this is not something that we receive a lot of formal training in.

And yet there are some things that the Bible says about communication that can absolutely be a paradigm shift for your marriage and move you from isolation back toward oneness. We've got Rob and Gina Flood joining us this week to talk about this stuff. Guys, welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Rob and Gina, we're a part of Family Life staff back a decade ago.

Today, Rob is a pastor at a church in suburban Philadelphia on the pastoral staff of a great church there. Gina is raising six kids, although are you still raising your 20-year-old who's now out of the house? Yes. Okay.

That had kind of a hearingness to that side. No, no, I think it's great, but he really does have good, like, roots at home, so he does talk to us a lot. I think, you know, we hear things about kids who leave and you don't hear from them again.

And it's over? And I just, I love that the kids still want to talk to us. I hope they want to talk to us forever. Well, Rob has written a book called With These Words, where you unpack five communication principles or tools that you learned over the course of your marriage that helped you guys turn from a marriage that was in severe isolation in the first year and a half, where you were actively praying that God would take the life of the other person so that you could be free to remarry.

It sounds worse coming from your mouth than it does. You had no way to know how to resolve these issues until you started seeing somebody model it for you, and you started looking at what the Scriptures have to say about communication, and you started believing that and applying it and living it out in the power of the Spirit. And you started to see, as you said, not an overnight turnaround, but a thawing over time that led what was frozen to become warm again in a marriage relationship. We've talked about a couple of the tools this week, the tool of first response, which you said was the ability of the other person in a communication engagement, that the second person really determines how that engagement is going to go, right?

That's right. How you respond to whatever your spouse says determines whether things escalate or de-escalate. You know, one of the great things about that principle that, you know, a lot of people don't talk about that, because you always think if somebody starts something, you just respond and it goes somewhere. But when you're in a marriage or you're in a situation and your spouse or somebody says something that hurts or starts to escalate, right now, because I now have this tool of first response, I'm now in decision mode. There's a lot of power you have right there, Dave.

There's a lot of power. I have a choice to make. It isn't, I got to react. It can be like, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm the first responder.

I'm going to determine where this goes. That's right. Right now, everything in me is going to say, okay, here we go, but maybe it's like, oh, no, I'm going to pause, I'm going to pray, which is second tool. That's right. And it could change everything.

That's right. And prayer, as you said, is that second tool, and that's praying for our spouse, that's praying with our spouse and making that central to what we do. And then the third tool you talk about is the power of physical touch.

And I thought this was fascinating. There is something in reaching out and taking the other person's hand in the middle of communication that somehow changes the scope of our communication. Yeah, not only in the middle of communication. If you know you're going to be sitting down to a difficult conversation, taking someone's hand, or it could just be sitting close where you're touching.

It could be we're on opposite sides of the couch, but her legs are stretched across mine. Some type of non-sexual intimate touching where it's safe and you're connected. When the conversation starts to go south, the first thing you'll notice is that you shift your position so you're not touching. It won't be raised voices, typically.

It won't be harsh words. You want some distance to make room for the sin you're planning to deliver. It's instinctive. It's hard to stay intimately connected to somebody you're about to attack. And so when you realize we've stopped touching, it's time to call time out and apply tool number two. Pray that the Lord would restore unity. Somehow we've started to get on different sides of this thing.

Pray, reconnect, and start over again. And I'll tell you what, when you get good at this tool, the principle of physical touch, you can fake it. You can be touching your spouse and be angry. And so, you know, I have noticed over the years that if I feel like I want to move away, I will tell him.

Because I could force myself to say, I mean, here I am with the guy who created this tool, right? There's no way I'm moving. And you want to say, don't touch me.

That's right. There's no way I'm releasing his hand or moving my feet. So I will tell him, I'll say, okay, I want to release your hand, so let's back up and figure out where we are. So you guys actually do this? Yes, so you're close enough that you're taking one another's hands as you're talking.

Yeah, absolutely. We'll sit at the same table. The Italians do all their serious conversations at the kitchen table. Sometimes it'll be the couch. If we're talking in the car, we'll reach across the console and take hands if it's going to be a difficult conversation. Or if we sense, oh, I didn't expect this to be hard, but it's starting to get hard, let's take hands.

And let's just start to monitor how we're doing in this conversation. There is something profound and powerful about this, but you imagine a couple in a situation where it's escalated. And if one spouse says to the other, hang on, come here. Let me hug you for a minute. There is something de-escalating just about that. Or just time out, and the other person will instinctively go, no, I don't want to be touched right now. I don't want to be hugged.

That would be giving up this anger that I'm not ready to give up on yet, right? It's like you're saying. I'm not feeling like I want to touch you right now. But when we say, okay, hang on, let's just for a minute, we're not going to say anything to one another. Let's just hold hands for a minute. Let's just hug for a minute, and then we'll see where the conversation goes after that. There is something that will just drain right out of an argument or out of a fight if we will just say, hang on, we're on the same team. Let's bring some safety and some security. I think that's a part of what the touching provides is a connection that says, I'm for you.

We're for each other. Let's just de-escalate for a sec. It is important to say that this tool ought not be forced on a spouse. It could be that you've gotten to a place in the conversation that applying this tool, the opportunity for it was 20 minutes ago. So you don't want to force this on somebody.

There are other tools we can start using that can really help once things really blow up. But if the spouse is open to it, it is very restorative, very de-escalating like you were saying. Yeah, is there ever a time you feel like it's too early? Like I've said something that's really hurt her.

Hypothetical, because I've never done this. No, let's say I've been hurt by her, and she's reaching out to say, let's hold hands as we go. And I'm like, I can't. I'm hurt. In maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes, there's a moment where like, okay, she heard my hurt. She's starting to realize how hurt I am, and then there's a... So I'm asking, you know, then I'm going to respond. And again, I'm not feeling like I'm being disobedient, but I'm just not ready to touch your hand yet, because I'm really living in pain. Talk about that.

Could it be too early? And I love the fact that you say, ask. Just force it. And be honest.

I think in that illustration you just gave, the greatest mistakes we make is we actually aren't honest in love, in that we're honest in anger. No, you hurt me. I'm not allowing you in to do that. But no, wait a second.

If you can be honest in love and say, I know what you're doing there, and I appreciate it. I'm not ready for it. It's okay. Call a time out. Just because a conversation has started doesn't mean it has to end, right?

If it goes south, it doesn't mean you have to keep going in that direction. You can pause. Go to your neutral corners, if need be, for 15, 30 minutes. Come back together.

It's okay. I don't know how the conversation's going to go, but I'm ready to take your hand now. But I think those 10 or 15 minutes, how you use that time is key. Because if you use that time to nurture bitterness, anger, rehearse unhelpful, unkind words, you're going to come back of those 10 to 15 minutes. And you're still not going to be ready to continue or move forward in the conversation. I think that time really needs to be used with the Lord and laying that out there before the Lord so that He can soften you.

That's so good, because you're absolutely right. In a time out, somebody can go, okay, this is a recess from the court proceeding. And I need to get my notes together and put my case together so that when we come back, I'm ready to persecute and prosecute more. And instead of saying, okay, I've got a time out, I'm going to spend time with the Lord and Lord, what do I need to do in this situation and how should I approach this?

And time in the Scriptures, even opening the Bible and just reading passages from Scripture as you process this and let the Lord soften your heart. I'm guessing that both of you are not stuffers who in conflict will just kind of go quiet on each other, but that you're both expressive with one another, passionate people. We are expressive and passionate. We aren't yellers.

Yes. But we're both very articulate and eager to be so. No, he's far more articulate than me, and that was something that I needed to learn when we were first married, because we would have conversations. And he was so articulate and so persuasive, every single one, I would lose every single conversation.

Until finally after time, I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I think this is just how he's communicating. And so I think we had one conversation where I said, uh-uh, no, no, no, no, I am right.

And we're not done this conversation until you agree that I am right. But she did say we have to slow down so my mind can figure out why. And he needed to learn.

Yes, that's right. That's so good, babe, because we needed to learn how to communicate with each other. He needed to learn that I need that time to process what he's saying. I'm not going to come up with a quick response. I need silence so I can think about what he said. And he needed to learn to get comfortable with that silence so that I could have that space and time to think and not be anxious or angry because I was being forced to come up with an answer so quickly. Mary Ann and I have this same thing, because if we had been on opposite sides on the debate squad, I don't want every time. I can think of it on my feet.

I can come up with, but what about this, and what about this, and what about this? You are speaking the truth, Bob. She needs time.

That is true. She needs time to stop and reflect and to process this. And early in our marriage, something would come up and I would be right there with, well, let me give you three things. There's this and there's this and there's this. And she wasn't quick enough to come up with what about this and this and this. And so I remember one Saturday morning we were having some argument about something and I was logically, in my mind, I'm just being reasonable and logical, this and this and this. And she gets up and leaves the room and goes to the bedroom and locks the door. And I thought, you are just being so immature. I'm just making logical points and you walk away and lock the door. And it was, I remember her coming back out and saying, you know, first of all, logic is in everything. You're not listening to what I'm saying.

You're just building your defense as you go along. She was right. She nailed me on this kind of stuff. And I had to pull back and say, okay, I may be able to think on my feet better than you, but that doesn't mean I'm right in what I'm saying.

And that doesn't mean that I see 360 of these things. And you need to give your spouse or the other person in this communication or conflict time, right? The question is, how long? Because I know for Ann and I, she would be, you, Rob, she would be better and quicker to know what she's feeling in this conflict. And as we've said earlier, she would blurt it right out. And I would know what I felt right away. I know what I'm feeling.

I know what I did feel. And I think I know what I'm going to feel tomorrow, you know, but I would say today, what do you think? What do you feel?

What's going on? And he would say, I don't know. That was too many questions.

Exactly. Well, I remember earlier in our marriage, she would just say, so what do you feel right now? And I felt like I'm the dumbest guy in the world because I don't know.

And she would be like, yes, you do. You know, you know, what is it? And I'm like, I actually don't know.

But guess what? I discovered, I knew an hour or two hours. Sometimes I knew after a good night's sleep. But we had this idea that Ephesians 4, do not let the sun go down on your anger, meant that you couldn't ever go to sleep without resolving this thing. When I realized one night at nine o'clock, I'm like, the sun already went down. I got till tomorrow night. You know, I got a hole in those 24 hours. But no, it was like, if we can talk about this in the morning, I will know what I feel.

Now we can communicate. But you don't want to let it go a week, right? You got to deal with it pretty quickly. It goes into that bigger picture.

What are you a part of? Because if you realize we're building something for decades, it's okay if the conversation takes an extra day. Yeah. This applies to our kids too.

And all of these tools would apply to our kids, would apply to anyone that we're speaking to, maybe not the principle of physical touch with some people. Right. But we have fast processing kids, slow processing kids.

Right. And learning each one and figuring out who needs that time is key. And as a parent, teaching them what you're teaching us, how do you communicate?

As a parent, you need to teach them that. So you're modeling this as we're doing it, right? Right. Let's talk about the last two tools, the tool of mirroring.

Explain what that is. So that's slowing a conversation down enough to make sure what has just been said to me is understood in the way it was meant. So Gina will say something. Oftentimes, couples, including us, can end up fighting about something that was never really meant to be communicated. Gina will say something. If I read tone or intention into that that's not accurate, I end up having an argument with a woman I'm not even across the couch from because she didn't even mean that.

So if we find ourselves tripping over communication regularly, this can be a great tool to put into place. So Gina says something. She says, you know, Rob, I'd love for you to come up with a plan to work with one of our kids.

I'm hearing. You think I'm failing. Well, what about the plan I came up with last time? Well, I've just responded in a harsh way that's escalated and took this in a totally different direction than she was hoping. So the tool would say, okay, so are you saying that I'm failing again as a dad?

No, no, no, that's not at all what I'm saying. And this tool is only successful if we give the power of interpretation to the person who actually said it. If she realizes, okay, I chose the wrong words because Rob's giving me a meaning I didn't intend, I'm giving her a chance to restate it, to say it differently.

I love how you talk about this in the book because you said early on when you started trying to practice this technique of mirroring, you would say something and Gina would say, here's what I hear you saying. And you'd hear it back and you'd go, well, that sounds harsh and that sounds rude. And you'd try to re-explain and she'd say, well, this is what I'm hearing now. Well, that sounded harsh and rude.

It took you a while to recognize I'm sounding harsh and rude. Right, she was right. She was right. And she was interpreting me far better even than I was, but she was patient to let me try four or five different times instead of saying, you idiot, and then escalating. So, no, we're going to keep working this tool.

We're going to keep doing this because we trust that God's going to work through this, and he did. But it took my dense head four or five times to hear, oh, wait a second, maybe she's right. Hey, let me ask you something you just said. It's a little off topic, but not really. You said, you idiot, would you guys ever say something like that? Not even. Would you ever use words like that? No. Not even in the first year and a half. No.

That's what I guessed. We never called names. Why not? I wasn't raised in a home where we called each other names.

Right. That was not, like if you called somebody a name, that was a big deal. So, I never, in fact, we so didn't call each other names that if the word dear was used, like, come here, dear. Like in my house, the word dear meant you were in trouble. You were in trouble. And so, my father-in-law called me dear all the time.

And I'm like, what am I doing wrong? And it took a couple years to realize he doesn't just call me dear, he calls everyone dear. It's a term of love. So, it's all learning a new language when you enter into a new family. And we've said, and your book's all about words have power.

That's right. And negative words stick. I mean, we all know the phrase, sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt. What a lie.

A goofy statement. Ann and I, in our first six months of marriage, she yelled, I wish I had never married you. And I yelled back basically, you're right, we're idiots, we should have never done this. And when we got through that conversation, this was year one, 40 years ago, we said we will never, ever again say words like that in our marriage that are that hurtful. And you think, 40 years later, I bet we flipped up.

We haven't. Praise God. Because we knew the power of life and death is in the tongue.

You've got to be very careful. And not only that, but we really reiterated that to our kids as well. So if our kids are getting in an argument and they knew that they can't call each other a name, like it's against the rules, because we're thinking the way you learn to use your words and handle conflict now will be what you carry into your marriage.

The last tool you talk about is the tool of proper timing. This is so important. Mary Ann and I know about one another that the time for her to have a substantive conversation with me is not first thing in the morning, because I'm not really awake yet or engaged. The time for me to have a conversation with her is not at 9 o'clock at night when she's starting to fall asleep. So we have to figure out when is the right time, what's the right setting. This is an important part of making sure we're going to be heard well, isn't it?

It is. It flows out of those four words in Ephesians 4, as fits the occasion, that there's actually a time, a right time for words. Gina and I will talk about a lot of things. We enjoy communicating together. If it's not super important, talking to me during a football game is not the best thing, right?

I try not to do that in general. But if it's important, the football game has to go off, right? Does off mean muted or does it mean all the way up?

It depends on the topic. It does. It really depends.

Definitely muted. It depends. If it's a conversation we could have, because we're east coast, so typically our games are at 1 o'clock. If it's a conversation that could happen at 4, then we wait till 4. What do you mean 4? There's another football game on at 4. And then another one. That's a great point, Gina. I like that you know this. There's only a football game on.

The issue really is, the football illustration is a little inane. The real issue is, if this is an important conversation, we need to have it at the right time. Not just when we're at our best, like you and Mary Ann, but have I just come back in from work? Am I just acclimating to the family? Is that the right time? As she's getting dinner prepared or as we're getting our youngest ready for bed, is that the time to crack open and do a big conversation? And am I ready to express myself in a godly way?

That's absolutely right. Have I prayed about this? Have I really meditated on what's the best way to say this? Rather than just, I'm feeling it right now, therefore we must have this conversation right now.

Because you may feel different. If you have to wait, that is God directing you, for whatever reason God is directing you. And sometimes that may be because God has things to do in you before you have that conversation. There are times when something invades our family, a crisis, where you just can't choose the time, where this tool becomes unhelpful, you just don't get to use this tool. Then is the best time to take hands with the tool of physical touch, to pray, and to deal with this thing that can't be put off.

Sometimes the timing can't be altered, but the other tools are there to help. There was a time... By the way, I'll just say this for the listeners, I love that you're doing physical touch right now. You're holding hands. I'm not about to say something bad, hon.

I'm prepared, though. There was a time where we had been doing these tools, sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously, but he is a night person, I am a morning person, I am not a night person, so we're laying in bed and he's telling me about a struggle that he's having, and I'm so tired. And so I'm like, okay, honey, can you just tell me what you want?

Do you want me to ask you questions and draw you out, or can I just tell you what your sin is? And what was your answer? Oh, I wanted the latter because I needed to get there eventually, and I knew what she was saying.

I knew it was late. I was really struggling and felt like, okay, I want the counsel of my wife, but I don't have time for her careful counsel, so she just went for the zinger. We wouldn't have done that earlier in our marriage, but we are in a place, by the grace of God, that we can do have that now.

Hey, let me ask you, I had a phone call with a woman yesterday. She's been married 15 years. She's been working on her marriage with a husband that has been not very involved.

He hasn't been applying a lot of the truths you're talking about. They both go to church, but in her words, I'm really the one doing everything, and I'm tired and I'm weary of being the only one that's working on our marriage. What would you say to that person that's listening thinking, I'm tired of being the only one, because my spouse really isn't investing anything. So not knowing her situation specifically, just broadening and generalizing that, first of all, I want to have compassion on that because that's a real place.

There are lots of couples out there where each spouse is not shouldering in equal weight. I'd also want to encourage her that she belongs to a savior who sees and who knows and is eager to give her a double portion of grace to shoulder the load that's been given her as she walks with him. And then to encourage her on the ways we've seen her grow, to let her know that all of this labor is not in vain. I don't know if this one has children or not, but how it's setting a wonderful example where the kids will remember a mom who was careful with her words, a mom who woke up each day and was willing to walk with Jesus and entrust this difficult marriage to the Lord.

I would also encourage her, if she hasn't done it already, to ask her husband if they can go for help, if they can bring this up in a small group where there could be a mentor there that could help them or a pastor that could sit and help walk them through some things, bring some help, equipping an accountability to her husband that doesn't have to come through her. Those are some of the thoughts that come to mind. Yeah, I love everything you've written in your book. I think these tools are very, very practical, biblical. They're really going to help couples. And, you know, as I got to the end of your book, one of the things I loved was the vow, sort of the communication vow.

And I thought, why don't you read it? You know, couples can, I mean, this is something we should post on our website and couples can put up in the fridge or frame it and remind themselves of the vow of communication. So, with these words, a communication vow. With these words, I will seek to build you up rather than tear you down. With these words, I will do all I can to reiterate what you mean in a way that honors and respects you. With these hands, I will touch you caringly, seeking unity even through the hardest conversations. With these eyes, I will look on you tenderly, avoiding judgment and scorn. With these ears, I will listen intently to understand what you're trying to say. With this heart, I will seek to love the Lord first and foremost, loving you all the while. With these words, I will share grace, mercy, and forgiveness as it has abundantly been shared with me by our Savior. And with God's help, our communication will draw us more closely together for the good of our home and the glory of God. You do that so well. We didn't start there, but you do that so well. And that's the message, that if you're not there, you can get there.

That's right. You can move from where you are to a place where this is how you're going to communicate with one another by applying God's Word with the power of the Holy Spirit, humbling yourself, saying, This is what we want. This is what both of us are aiming for. So, let's approach our communication differently. Let's do it differently than our passions tell us to do it, than our instincts tell us to do it, than our family baggage tells us to do it.

Let's do it the way the Scriptures tell us to do it. And let's watch the transformation happen in our relationship. Guys, thank you for the time. Great to see you. Thanks for writing the book. It has been such a treat. Great to have you guys here. Good to see you.

Yeah, you too. We've got copies of Rob's book in our Family Life Today Resource Center. Go online to get a copy of With These Words, five communication tools for marriage and life. You can order it from us online at familylifetoday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the book is called With These Words by Rob Flood.

You can order online at familylifetoday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Now, these are days when all of us need to be re-anchoring our hearts and minds in the truth of God's Word, in God's providence, in his providential care for us. It's easy to become fearful or anxious. Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount said, don't be anxious about your life, about what you'll eat or what you'll drink, or about your body, what you will put on it.

Life is about more than food, and the body is about more than clothing. He's reminding us that we need to be spiritually minded in the midst of present challenges that we're facing in this life. And I hope all of us during this season of heightened anxiety in our lives and in our culture are pointing one another and pointing people in our community to the only real source of hope we have, and that is our hope in Christ.

You may have heard of a document from Church History called the Heidelberg Catechism. The very first question in that catechism is, what is your only comfort in life and death? And we are living in life and death days. The answer to that question is that I am not my own, but I belong with body and soul both in life and in death to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ. He's fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood. He's set me free from the power of the devil. He also preserves me in such a way that without the will of my Heavenly Father, listen, without the will of my Heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head. Indeed, all things must work together for my salvation.

Therefore, by his Holy Spirit, he assures me of eternal life and makes me heartily willing and ready from now on to live for him. That's where our hope is found in Christ, and I hope during these anxious days, you are renewing your mind, setting your mind on things above, not on things on earth, and rejoicing in the reality that you belong to Christ. And let me just say, if you don't know Christ, let me encourage you to go to our website, familylifetoday.com.

There's information available there about how you can deal with your anxiety and find comfort by becoming a child of God, by surrendering your life to Jesus Christ. Again, go to our website, familylifetoday.com, or call us if you'd like to know more about what it means to be a Christian. And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when we're going to talk about one of the ways that life can get complicated for blended families, and that's in the area of finances and money. Ron Deal, who gives leadership to Family Life Blended, is going to be with us to talk about how blended families can be proactive to make sure money doesn't become an issue in their blended marriage.

Hope you can tune in for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. He got some help from our friend Mark Ramey. On behalf of our hosts, David Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.