A Rapture Study: One Taken, One Left | Guest: Ayo Shosanya

Blessings to Israel presents Discerning the Times, a program committed to encouraging you to view current events through the lens of the Bible. Now in honor of the one and only true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, please join us for today's program.

Welcome to Discerning the Times. It is a blessing to be with you once again this week. I'm really excited about today's guest, who is a fellow brother in the faith, and he's here to talk to us about my passion, Bible prophecy and apologetics. We are going to bring him in shortly to talk about the subject of the rapture. But before we bring him in, I need to remind you that your eternal state is far more important than your current state. If you've never received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, I encourage you to do so today.

Otherwise, if you leave this out of life without having received Him, you will spend eternity in the lake of fire, separated from God. So will you please give your heart to Jesus Christ on today? All right, folks, so we are in for a treat today with my brother Ayo.

He is the founder of Himitsu Ministries. And I recently saw him on an interview and I immediately put it on my to do list to reach out to him. And he graciously accepted the invitation to come on. So, Ayo, I want to thank you for joining us. Welcome to Discerning the Times. Yeah, thank you for having me on, brother. It's a blessing to be here. Amen. It is certainly our honor. Well, you have a very, very interesting ministry.

To get us started, if you will, provide for our audience. Talk to us about your background and what is the focus of your ministry? Yes, a little bit about me is that I'm originally from Nigeria, so I was born there, moved to the U.S. about 20 years ago.

So I've been living in the U.S. for 24 years now. And I originally came from a Christian family, so I've known the Lord for a long time. Or at least, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean I was saved. But I grew up in a Christian family, knew about God and things like that.

And then during college, I fell away from that. And how that kind of fits into my ministry is that after college, I kind of rededicated my life to the Lord. And then I got into the Book of Revelation. That was the first book I dived into to get closer to the Lord.

Which is funny because, as you probably know, a lot of Christians avoid that book, unfortunately. So after getting into that book, getting into eschatology, I quickly saw that, wow, I've been in Christianity basically all my life. And I'm just hearing about eschatology right now.

Like, what's going on? So that really lit a fire within me to start talking to other believers about eschatology. And around the same time, I got into apologetics as well, learned about defending my faith. And that just basically gave birth to the ministry that I'm a part of right now that I created, which is Himitsu Ministries. And a little bit about that ministry is that, again, it focuses on eschatology, so Bible prophecy regarding the last days, and apologetics. So the goal of it is discipleship, just allowing Christians to grow in their faith, understanding the times we're living in prior to the Lord's return, and then giving them tools to equip them to share their faith with others.

And then there's also a Japanese component to it as well, where I strive to also disciple fellow believers who are Japanese, and then share the gospel with the Japanese community as well. So that's kind of a little bit about the ministry. Wow. Very, very interesting.

Very interesting. And, you know, I smiled when you mentioned the revelation, because, as you said, most people try to do all they can to steer clear of Revelation. But Revelation is my favorite book of the Bible. I've been intrigued by Revelation since I was a little boy from 10 years old. And I have a friend in the ministry similar to your story in which he said when he first came to the Lord, sadly, though, he had a pastor to tell him, stay away from the book of Revelation. And he said, well, with his inquisitive mind, he wanted to know why. So he went and looked in Revelation. And he saw right in the beginning, it says there is a blessing for reading this book. So, you know, we need to combat those deceptions of Satan to get people to stay away from Revelation.

And I'm so glad to hear that you did go in that direction. So talk to us now about Gen Zers. I want to know when it comes to spirituality today, do Gen Zers even care about spirituality or where do they tend to look when it comes to that area? Yeah, that's a great question. I think the answer is actually yes, surprisingly, not in the sense of what we're thinking. So I know spirituality is kind of a loaded term today.

A lot of Gen Zers were seen. A lot of people leaving the church were seen as deconstructionist movement, or you'll find a lot of people who might come from a Christian background. They're saying, well, I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. And what they mean is that they don't care about Christianity.

They don't care about the gospel says they're not seeking the God of the Bible, but they're seeking everything else. They're going to New Age. They're going to witchcraft. We're seeing on TikTok. There's now this big movement on TikTok called the Witch Talk.

So unfortunately, we're seeing a lot of that kind of thing. So when I say yes, I believe that Gen Z is interested in spirituality. It's not the spirituality that the Bible offers, the true spirituality rooted in Christ, rooted in the God of the Bible.

But the counterfeit spirituality, we're seeing the deception of the age, unfortunately. Well, I praise God for raising up someone like you to to reach those people because they are seeking something that we know that only Jesus Christ can feel. And so you are that voice to do that. So in speaking to Gen Zers, you often hear people argue, well, you can have your truth. You live your truth and I can live my truth. And, you know, this feelings based type of theology. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, it's definitely the outcome of this postmodern culture we're in. Right. Where, like you said, it's kind of all about what I feel, what I believe. If you're a Christian, that's cool.

That works for you. I can be Hindu or atheist or whatever. But I really deal with this in my ministry because, again, part of the apologetics branch of it is kind of assessing claims like that. So a lot of claims that we'll hear, similar to kind of what you're saying in terms of my truth, your truth, kind of all religions speak the same thing, is that I try to get people to understand that, well, you can't just say it's your truth or my truth because all religions are diametrically opposed to one another.

So all of them cannot be correct at the same time. There can only be one religion that's correct. So I really try to combat that belief with just logic, with trying to ask people questions, trying to tell people that, hey, if you look at the major world religions and even all religions, really, they're answering key questions. They're answering questions about where do we come from? Where are we going? The nature of man, whether we're born sinful or kind of corrupted, whether we're born in a state of tranquility or a state of good in some sense, because some people believe that, no, we're not bad.

We're good. And then it's the environment that corrupts us. There's some religions that state there is a god or that there's multiple gods. So all religions might have superficial similarities. And I think that's where people are kind of saying that, oh, it's your truth, my truth or all religions are the same. But when we really dig deep into it, we see that all religions have fundamental differences. And it's those fundamental differences that matter.

That's where it contradicts each other. So I think the encouragement for people that believe that is to see past those superficial similarities. And then once we get that, we can start pointing them to the God of the Bible and start to say that, OK, all these religions are different.

Where can we start? We can start with the claims of Christ, that he claimed to be God. He claimed to die for our sins and rose again. You know, the resurrection is a key component of Christianity. So if we can look at that claim and if we can say that's true, then then that blows all the religions out of the water. Right. So that's kind of how I go about it with that kind of claim. Absolutely.

Yeah, that's good. You know, and I have two young children. They are both just in their teenage years and they both received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. We go through a regular devotion Bible study every morning, 7 a.m. And just a couple of days ago and I was talking with them about what we often hear, you know, your truth and my truth. And they thankfully don't accept that type of stuff.

They know that is wrong. But I said, well, you know, you go out and you're faced with someone who wants to talk about that. And I gave the example and I told my son, I said, so let's say me and you go up on the roof of the house and we both jump off. And if I say, well, you know, my truth is there is no gravity, but you say your truth. It is what's going to happen when we both jump.

We both are going to hit the ground. And they, of course, you know, accepted that. But that's one of the things that Satan has just deceived a lot of people into. You know, doctrines of demons is what it is and to believe in this.

And as you so rightly say that there's only one truth. And and that is where we are here to point people to. So Bible prophecy, it gets blown off by many, even in the church. And it's sad. That's an area of ministry in which God has called me to focus in. And I've been doing this now formally for almost 20 years.

And I see is blown off by a lot of people. You know, you you try to talk to people in the church. Their interest level is just not there. What is the interest level among the young generation?

Yeah, I think it's really mixed because similar to you, I mean, I've definitely not done this as long as you probably six to seven years. So I really commend you for what you're doing, commend you for how the Lord's using you. But in terms of what I've been saying since I graduated college, when I talk to fellow peers, fellow believers about prophecy, a lot of what I've seen is just kind of not necessarily disdain, but kind of just a wishy washyness about it. Like, OK, it's it might be coming soon.

Sure. We believe Jesus is coming, but it's so far in the future. So it doesn't really impact their lives now. There's a lack of interest there. But then at the same time, interestingly, I'm a I'm a youth leader in my church.

I'm a youth leader for nine, 10th grade boys. And what's funny is that they have questions about prophecy. They're interested. So I think for what I'm seeing, it's very mixed. You'll see people who, again, same similar to my age, my background, they're not interested. They kind of want to focus on their lives now.

They'd rather get married, start their businesses, things like that. And that's all good things. But I mean, it really pales in comparison to to believing that just can come now. Right. Right. So you have that group and then you do have young people like myself who are very interested in prophecy, who are similar to me and you want to share this knowledge with other believers.

So I think it's a mix from what I've been seeing, at least from my experience. Yeah, that's good. And and that's the thing I love. You know, the Bible is very clear that God is always going to have a remnant. I think no matter what, he's going to raise up people who are going to be called to to speak to the return of Jesus Christ. And, you know, you're just another that's in that that list and that chain that he's raising up for that purpose.

So that's so good to hear. You know, Israel has been in the headlines for the past year, ever since the Hamas attack. And, you know, a lot of people have been weighing in on it and giving opinions and thoughts. And one of the things that we've seen is these protests has been worldwide, you know, the anti-Semitism. And a lot of people are siding with Hamas and they're chanting free Palestine and all of that. Do you think that one of the primary reasons, if not the primary reasons why Gen Zers do not understand the Israeli conflict is because they really don't embrace and study Bible prophecy?

I think that's part of it. I in you know, I'm not disagreeing with you about the primary reason being eschatology or understanding of eschatology. But I think what's sad is that a lot of people might not even be understanding the times and the significance of what's going on, simply because they don't even follow the news, because even with the corkers, I, you know, I'm with or just the friends.

If you were just like, hey, this thing happened in Israel, this thing happened in, you know, this part of the world. And I think it's a bit significant for this reason. They might not even have heard of that particular news piece. Right. So I think the first step is for them to even just kind of, you know, stick their head out of the sand, so to speak.

Right. To just be aware of what's going on doesn't mean you have to constantly be taking this influx of news, but just have a basic understand what's going on in the world. And then once you're doing that, we can also look at scripture, look at what scripture says about the last days, what's to come, what God has planned. And those two things together will give someone the proper lens to interpret the events of the world. But if you're not even paying attention to the news at all, you're not even on step one, right? So I think after again, that step one, you're paying attention, you're reading the Bible alongside that, you're filtering the news events of the week, of the month with scripture. Then we can start getting people who actually not only understand what's going on around the world, but care about what's going on, how we're moving forward and how kind of how we fit in the space we are in right now.

That's a great point. I get amazed at how people are just oblivious to what's going on in the world, not watching the news. I remember one day I went out to shop for groceries and I put in the parking lot in that day. I think it was during the fall, but you know, the average temperature was was cool. But that particular day, it got up to close to 80 degrees. And I see this couple walking along and they had on these big overcoats, you know, and I'm like, man, you know, did you not watch the weather?

But a lot of people, they don't watch weather forecasts, they don't watch the news. And so that that's an excellent point. You do need to know what's going on in the world in order to make the connections with with the Bible. So now what I want to talk to you about is you authored a an article on your website that really grabbed my attention. It was titled A Rapture Study, one taken, one left. So that's published on your website.

And that's an area that I go to a lot to study. Matthew, chapter 24. All of us who study and teach eschatology, we know that's one of the key passages. Explain to us the the taken, who who is taken, who was left.

And also explain, if you will, the differences between the rapture of the church and the second coming of Christ. Yeah. Yeah.

The reason I wrote that, if I can quickly, I just want to state the reason I went to length to actually write that article. And then I also want to read a little bit of that section of the passage for people who aren't familiar with it. But the reason I wrote that article, though, was just because as I delved into prophecy and, you know, my awareness and understanding of the scripture expanded, I started seeing people, whether post-trip, pre-trip, whatever, go to Matthew 24 for a rapture.

Right. So with the people who are post-trip, they'll see the rapture where it says that, OK, at the second coming, Jesus will send out his angels, gather the elect. And they're saying, OK, that's the rapture at the second coming.

And then you have your people who are pre-trippers, who I am and you are as well. We go to Matthew 24 and then we see one taken, one left and we're like, aha, that's the rapture. And the claim I'm making in the article is that the rapture isn't in Matthew 24 at all. One taken, one left isn't the rapture. And I'll kind of expound on that as we go on. But just kind of to give that brief summary for people. But what we're seeing, this one taken, one left is Matthew 24, verse 37 to 41.

I'll read that for us quick, just for the sake of the audience. But as the days of Noah were, so also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eaten and drinking, married and given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark.

And did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field. One will be taken and the other left.

Two of them will be grinding at the mill, one will be taken and the other left. So verse 40 to 41 is where we're seeing that one taken, one left. So the first reason I believe that this isn't talking about the rapture is that in context, what you're saying here, we see that he's using the analogy of Noah's flood to describe the day or to describe the time period as second coming, right? To describe what's going to happen. So he says that during Noah's flood, people were eating, drinking until sudden judgment happened upon them.

That was the flood. So he's saying likewise, his second coming will be the same way. People will be eating, drinking, life will be going on as usual, and then judgment will overtake them. So I believe what Jesus in context is describing here is a judgment that will occur at Christ's second coming, not that those taken are somehow taken in the rapture.

And we'll kind of get more into what happens to those who are taken. But the second reason, though, so the first reason again is the flood analogy that denotes judgment. The second reason here is that we see a parallel to what Jesus is saying here in Luke 17.

And this is another passage I'll read for us quick. So Luke 17, verses 26 to 30. And as it was in the days of Noah, again, that's similar to what Jesus was saying in Matthew 24. So it will be also in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage until they then Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them. Likewise, as it was also in the days of Lot, they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted.

They built, but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom, they rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. So we see in Luke, there's extra detail here, we get the flood and the judgment that happened to that period of time. And then we also see Lot's day, Sodom and Gomorrah.

So it's another example of judgment at that time. Now Luke 17, 34, 36 says this, I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed, the one will be taken on the other left. Two women will be grinding together, the one taken on the other left.

Two men will be in the field, the one taken on the other left. So again, it's that taken left analogy. Now where Luke 17 gives us a little bit more details in verse 37, we actually are told what happens to those who are taken. And this answers the question, what happens to those who are taken, what does that mean? So verse 37 says, And they answered to him, Where, Lord?

So this is disciples, Where, Lord? So he said to them, Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together. So what we're seeing is that those who are taken are taken into judgment, and that judgment language that's being used here is with birds of prey. So we see birds of prey being used, for example, Revelation 19, when Jesus Christ comes back, defeats the armies of the Antichrist, we see that birds of prey are called to eat the bodies of those who are slain, correct? So this shows me that this is not a rapture, that those who are taken are not taken into heaven or nothing like that. Those who are taken are taken to judgment. And then those who are left on the earth are going to be the ones who enter the millennial reign of Christ in their normal human bodies. Wow, that's good.

And of course, you know, for our listening audience, we're just scratching the surface and we'll have you share how people can go to your website to read this article before we conclude today. But I know I made the mistake early on when I read those verses as well. When I saw one taking the other left, I immediately thought, oh, yeah, there's the rapture matter of fact. Yeah, I actually did teach that. I told people that early on without going in depth. But yeah, I would I would use those as rapture verses. But it was as I studied and got deeper into it. And like, as you said, it's like stuff is like, OK, this is not jiving.

This can't be. But but to your point, the reason is that Jesus is coming back to do what he's coming to set up his millennial kingdom. Right. And so therefore, for those who have not received him at that point, for those who have accepted the mark of the beast. Well, you know, they're still alive when he returns.

They can't go into his kingdom. So something has to be done with them. And as you can see.

Yeah. So they have to go into into judgment. And so is is very it's a very intriguing verse passage. And again, we have to make a distinction between that and first Thessalonians chapter four, which is talking about the rapture of the church.

And you can really see when you really start to study the difference. And one is a an event of of joy when we are raptured in the as the church, you know, as one of joy being joined with Jesus Christ. But obviously, Matthew 24 is this.

That's not a joyous event. He's coming back in judgment. So so so anything else you would like to share concerning that that passage on that topic? Yeah, to go more into the differences between the rapture and second, because I know that's what you alluded to earlier. I think one obvious difference that a lot of preachers talk about right is that in the rapture, we're going to go up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air. And that's what we see in first Thessalonians four. So at Christ's second coming, which you can read about Revelation 19, for example, we're actually coming back.

We're the armies in white that's coming back with Christ. So one event we're going up to meet Christ in the air will be taken to heaven for John 14. And then the second coming, we're coming back with the Lord. So if we're coming back with the Lord from heaven, it presupposes that we were with him in heaven at some period of time, right?

So that's one key difference. Another difference is that during the rapture, the dead in Christ be raised first and we will be glorified. But if you're reading the passage concerning the second coming, there is no resurrection that's going on.

There is no glorification of believers that's going on. And in fact, what I tell post-rippers or people who believe in the posture of rapture is that one, I believe one main problem with the posture of rapture view is that if the rapture were to happen at the second coming, all believers will be glorified and there will be no non-believers who are, you know, and there are no mortal bodies who will enter the millennium of Christ. And why that's so important for you viewers, if you're not understanding what I'm saying exactly, is that you have to have flesh and blood humans that aren't glorified enter the millennium to repopulate the earth during that time. But a rapture at the second coming of Christ will not allow for that reality. And that's just a huge problem with the posture of rapture view.

But those are just a few key differences. If you read Matthew 24, you know, our point of topic here is Matthew 24, you see that at Christ's second coming, there's a lot of celestial events as well. So there's the sun will be dark and the moon will not give its light. The stars will fall from heaven. Those kind of things will also see the sign of the Son of Man. But Paul does not talk about that in 1 Thessalonians 4 or 1 Corinthians 15 when it talks about the rapture. So there's just a few differences.

But I believe when we look at those differences, it shows that these are two distinct events that are not being at the same time, but are happening in two different time periods. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's good.

Yeah. Explaining to people that, yes, there have to be people in natural bodies that go into the millennial kingdom in order to repopulate the earth. The Bible says very clearly that that's going to happen. But to your point, which I totally agree with, if everyone receives a glorified body in a post tribulation rapture, then there's no one else left to have children anymore. So it just can't be another verse.

I want to get your take on it. What do you say to people who also, again, hold to that post trib rapture view in the book of John, where Jesus said in John Chapter 14, verse one, Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God. Believe also in me in my father's house are many mansions, if it were not so.

I would have told you I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am there, you may be also. When I look at that passage to me, it just it nails down the rapture being pre tribulation, because otherwise, when do we go? The father's house is obviously in heaven, right?

He says, I'm coming back. And this is this parallels the Jewish the Galilean wedding tradition, which will we'll have to have you on another time to unpack all this. When you get to Bible prophecy, guys here, man, we can sit here and talk for hours and hours on this, though. But so he is going to come back to take us to the father's house to wait out the seven year tribulation. Well, if if the rapture were to be at the end of the tribulation, then we would never go to the father's house. Right. So thank you. It just it cannot work with a post tribulation rapture.

So, yes, I totally agree with you on that. And it's a passage that I want to just share with people out there who have been looking into this. Maybe you're new to Bible prophecy and you read some of these things and it's challenging.

Don't give up. You know, there's a great source here with my brother Ayo. And again, we're going to share how people can reach you. But there are so many great resources out there. And the Holy Spirit, of course, will guide you. I did struggle with Matthew 24 early on, as I said. But over time, the Holy Spirit shared and revealed, opened my eyes to more and more.

And now it makes complete sense to me. So so, yeah. So any more on that before we wrap things up? Yeah, I mean, just the final comment of what you just said with John 14, I think that's that's that's perfect.

You know, they completely agree with that. And it's a joke that, again, many ball prophecy teachers, many pastors teach that, hey, if the rapture and sanctity of Christ happens at the same time, it's kind of like a U-turn, right? Like, OK, we're going up in the air only to come back down all the sense. It's like when when is that promise of John 14 fulfilled?

We're supposed to be in the father's house for some time. And again, that another contradiction is brought up where Revelation 19, the armies of heaven, where we're coming back with Christ from heaven. So, yeah, we have to be in heaven. Right. So it just, again, opens up so many contradictions. Like you say, we go on and on about this. But I just wanted to say, yeah, completely agree with what you said there.

Yeah. And I look so forward, man, to being in that army, coming out of heaven, just imagining what that is going to be like. You know, I imagine I'll be pulling up the rear. You know, it'll be up front.

Jesus and Moses and Abraham. But hey, as long as I'm in the number, I'm going to be happy. So, man, that's going to be a magnificent time to to behold that event. All right. So to wrap this up, you mentioned early on the how you incorporate the Japanese language into your ministry. Talk about that, please.

Yeah. So just for the sake of the audience, a little bit background in terms of Japanese and why I even use Japanese in terms of my ministry. So it's just something I naturally became interested in. So about high school, I think sophomore year of high school, I started self-studying Japanese. I'm someone that's always been interested in different cultures and things like that. Always trying to get into and learn about different belief systems, different cultures. And I think Japanese is just like a natural outflow into that because I was just kind of exposed to that young earlier in my life. So when I started learning Japanese in high school and then in college and then obviously eventually graduating college and starting this ministry. My goal is to use all the skills, all the knowledge I have for God Square.

Right. I'm sure that's the same for you. I'm sure that's the same for many in our audience who are listening. We just want to use what the Lord has given us for his glory. So although I'm not fluent in Japanese, but I have studied it for a long time, over 10 years now.

It's just another thing I want to use for his glory. So that plays out in my ministry specifically is that I strive to I strive to translate my content. So whether that's apologetics articles or articles on eschatology, I strive to just translate those content into Japanese for Japanese believers or non-believers. So I've had some fellow believers from my local church who have helped me out get a Japanese version of the website up. So we have that up already. We have some translated content up. So my goal is to just get that to the Japanese community.

Because for those who don't know, in Japan, about less than one percent of people there identify as Japanese. So the need there is great for the gospel to be spread. And Lord willing, I'm just trying to do my part again, use the skills that God has given me to make an impact in that area. Wow. That's very interesting. I mean, that is a very unique niche that you have there. And I just find that so interesting.

And I praise God for for what he's doing, the way he's using you. It is really quite interesting. So how can the listeners reach out to you, find out more about your ministry? I know you have an awesome podcast, YouTube channel that I've been on.

How can they go to find that information? Yes, like you said, podcast, you guys can search me up on podcast, any podcast platform. You can just search up the ministry by the name Himitsu Ministries and then you'll find it anywhere.

You'll find it on YouTube as well with the same name. And then I also have the website himitsu study dot com. And then you find me on social media. Again, if you search up him into ministries, you'll find me on Instagram, Facebook. I'm on X. So you guys can find me on all those platforms. All right.

Yes. Well, you will definitely be blessed by looking at that material. I'm still going through it on your website is just some really good stuff. So I praise God for what you are doing. So I know it's been great talking with you. Definitely want to have you back again in the future, because, again, I can just pick your brain on and on and on on this subject.

So I praise God for you. Thank you for joining us. And we look forward to reaching out again in the near future. Thank you for having me on again, brother.

All right. And to our listening audience, thank you for tuning in. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to discern the times by view of life through the lens of the Bible. Until then, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel. And to the only wise God be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

Thank you for tuning in to Discerning the Times. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to encourage you to view current events through the lens of the Bible. Until next time, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel. And seek first the kingdom of God.