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February 5, 2020 1:00 am
Episode 373 | Dr. Michael Horton and Adriel Sanchez answer caller questions.
Key questions answered in today's show:
1. I have a friend who thinks that praying in the Spirit means praying in tongues. I don’t necessarily agree with that because I heard something different, but I was just wondering what you thought.
2. Hello Pastor Adriel and Dr. Horton, first thank you for your ministry, it has helped me hear the gospel on a daily basis, which helps me trust God's promises further. I wanted to ask you a question about Sunday worship. Recently my church had a "Serve Sunday" where the normal worship services were cancelled, and the church went and served various tasks in the community for those in need. Do you think this is appropriate? I'm trying to be in careful submission to the pastor and elders placed as authorities, but I can't help feeling that this Sunday was a day the gospel, which I so desperately need, was not preached to the body of Christ. Thank you so much for considering my question.
3. What does it mean in the book of Isaiah where it says, “Foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister to you; for in my wrath I struck you, but in my favor I have had mercy on you.”?
4. How much money should a Pastor make?
5. Should we continue to forgive people who sin against us over and over again?
This is core Christianity, where answering your questions about the Christian life Monday through Friday.
Your hosts are author and seminary professor Dr. Michael Horton and pastor atrial Sanchez call right now with your question. At 1833. The core that's 1-833-843-2673 and now here's atrial Sanchez hello and welcome back to corporate entity will be answer your questions about the Bible you can give us a call or send us an email and pastor atrial Sanchez and I'm joined by Prof. Michael Horton, you know, one of the I would say most controversial questions in the church today is related to spiritual gifts are the sign gifts that we see early on in the book of acts and described in places like first Corinthians 12 to 14 still around for today.
The technical theological term that is sometimes associated with this discussion is cessation is him have those gifts ceased or are they still around. We love talking about these because they really are relevant to us as believers in Jesus Christ, we have a question about the gift of tongues. Let's listen to this call Robert and I'm from Oklahoma and I will just question about walking the spirit or speaking in the spirit of a friend of mine and that she seems to think that we pray we pray in the spirit that it's praying in tongues. I don't necessarily group that could hurt different but I was wondering what your point was on the matter and not speaking in spirit. Yeah, thanks Robert. Very practical question. One of the passages were that phrase is used is Ephesians 618, pray in the spirit at all times with every kind of prayer and petition, pray in the spirit at all times with every kind of prayer and petition Paul there I think is is saying clearly are using your mind you're praying for certain things with every kind of prayer and petition, so this isn't speaking in tongues and first so I don't think Robert we really understand. In many cases what speaking in tongues was in its original context lot times we we start too late in the conversation our tongues for today. The earlier question is what is tongues in the Bible you had in the ancient world all kinds of ecstatic utterances, but the word for those ecstatic utterances that is just basically words that you don't understand, but the Lord does, or the gods do that is a different word in Greek than the one that you find in acts in first Corinthians. The word in the Scriptures is gloss. I languages. This is the term for other languages and yet Pentecost for example what you find. People are speaking in tongues and what's the response of the Jews who heard this, they were shocked, not because people were speaking unintelligible words but for the very opposite reason. Each one was hearing the gospel in his own language.
We read K so even people who weren't yet converted, could understand what was being said in tongues. Then you go over to first Corinthians.
I'm not completely sure that every instance of tongues in first Corinthians is the same as that. But I think it is ill there a lot of people in Corinth were from other countries. It's very cosmopolitan place.
I think that just as at Pentecost were people were gathering for Pentecost from all over the Jewish diaspora. The gospel was to go out for these people to wherever they went back home to in the way to do that was by basically supernaturally gifting preachers to proclaim the gospel in languages they had never learned. This is like a supernatural UN meeting where you have that you note divine translators so the people speaking did not know what they were saying, but the people hearing did. I think that's what's going on in first Corinthians as well. In any case, Paul says, first Corinthian 14 for the one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies breaches builds up the church. I believe the tongues will refers to human languages known human languages, and so in any case, I don't think Paul in Ephesians 618 is talking about tongues at all.
He says pray in the spirit at all times with every kind of prayer and petition to pray in the spirit is not to pray in a language that you don't know to pray in the spirit is actually to be thoughtful and deliberate to know what you're praying whatever tongues refers to in first Corinthians 14 speaking unintelligible utterances couldn't have been what was happening.
Paul says in that very chapter that everything done in public worship must be intelligible that it must be understood by the hearers.
Otherwise, what'll happen. No one will be built up. The Christians won't be built up and Paul says unbelievers will come in the church and say these people are mad so speak intelligible words in public worship.
The apostle says and praying in the spirit just never in any instance that I've encountered has any reference to tongues at all, regardless of what you think about tongues and Mike I agree with you I thought was interesting. You said very nice idea of praying the spirit means thoughtful and deliberate prayers, which is so different than what I think we often think today we we assume that real you know spirit led prayers to spontaneous.
I haven't thought about it just kinda comes out of me him and I think that there are times where no preregistered weld wells up within us and we pray to the Lord and that's great, but not all prayers like that and it is nothing wrong with sitting down and writing down a prayer or reading a prayer that someone else has written that's in line with God's will and deliberate with the Psalms are right that evaluates them. The Psalms are prayers that we should join our hearts and in praying to the Lord and so we pray in the spirit to remember them remarkable privilege that we have not only do we have a father who loves us and the lights to hear us talk to them but we have a mediator. We couldn't come to that father as sinful people. We have no access to the father apart from the mediation of Christ, our high priest, and then on top of it all. He sends his Holy Spirit into our hearts so that we can cry out about father and this is how Paul puts it, just to wind it up. Romans 826 in the same way the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
For we do not know how we ought to pray that true isn't it wonderful that the apostle Paul could even say we, it's encouraging just don't know how to pray, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. In other words, the Holy Spirit translates the Holy Spirit takes our babbling and makes it intelligible and it isn't it wonderful Holy Spirit within us is cleaning up our prayers, making them acceptable to the father in the sun that really opens the door to praying in the spirit, amen. We got email from Trent who asked hello pastor Adrian Dr. Horton first thank you for your ministry. It is help me hear the gospel on a daily basis which helps me trust God's promises. Further, I wanted to ask you a question about Sunday worship recently. My church had a service Sunday with the normal worship services were canceled and the church went and served various tasks in the community for those in need. Do you think this is appropriate. Trying to be careful and in submission to the pastor and elders placed as authorities, but I can't help feeling that this Sunday was a day the gospel which I so desperately need was not preached in the body of Christ.
Thank you so much for considering my question him yeah Trent you know I've seen this same trend as well, especially in some church plants and I have to say I think it's a bad move. And the reason it's a bad move is because God is the one who calls us to worship.
Imagine I'm throwing a wedding for my son or my daughter and you're on the guest list and this is to be just the most awesome wedding ever.
You know, I've been saving for years and years and have the best food of the best DJ amazing speeches plan if it's going to be the best of the greatest wedding and you received a phone call from one of the table servers at the wedding the week before the wedding was supposed to happen. They said you hey, the wedding is canceled. Let's go do something else together and shock. You know you you asking her why did they cancel the wedding they were hyping it up so much what happened in this person replaces his owner. They didn't cancel the wedding. I did you'd be shocked, you do know this person doesn't have the authority to cancel the wedding that I am the one who throwing the party will pastors are table servers in God's house and we don't have the authority to cancel God's party, the wedding feast if you will church we gather together God is the one who calls us into his presence. And so I just think it's it it communicate something so wrong when you have these churches and pastors who say will when I can have Sunday services. We really do something else and I'm to say I've I've seen or at least heard of two reasons why pastors are doing this today. It seems like a trend. One is is what you just mentioned, there is service. In other words, let's go and serve instead of said the reality is you can't serve in Lester first given a message in Lester being the narrator serve that's right and that's what worship is. It's the divine service. It's God is coming to feed us.
He's inviting us into his presence so that he can nourish us so that he can send us out into the world to be a blessing you just picture how off. This is and I know I'm speaking pretty frankly here Jesus Christ the King of the church says I'll meet you here at this time, place, I'm in a meet you here with these gifts and I meant to give them to you this way, preaching baptism, Lord's supper fellowship of the saints prayers. I'm to do this. I'm in a come I'm to serve you within your gonna respond in praise and thanksgiving, then your gonna go out on Monday and serve in your callings. Your regular everyday callings versus I'm the pastor I'm calling these people together I'm gathering them as home base for our good works instead of the place where God says he's going to do a good work for us and to us.
Man, what it teaches people is that we don't come to Jesus to find rest on the Lord's day is not the day of rest. It's the day of work. Now there are: what works of mercy that are done on the Lord's day going to arrest home. For example, helping you bring people to church out taking them back home. Having people over for a meal going out to shut-ins to those who can't go to church and all of that on Sunday after church, but that's part of the communion of saints, and that's part of resting in Christ with his people. The place for you to love and serve your neighbor in the community as a Christian is alongside non-Christians in your everyday job. Yeah, I think, if any, on the head.
I think you know there are a couple reasons why think, or at least reasonable. I've heard people doing this one is the service be on his rest.
I've heard people actually say what we've been going so hard. You know we've done in a 50 weeks in a row of having church services were Geneva Sunday off yeah I've hundred iTunes her press right repaired it so boring you know what you've done you done enough work as if coming to church his work. You boy, if we could just help you you listening right now if we could help you to recover this sense of worshiping with God's people as were gathering to be served by Jesus is not primarily about me and what I'm doing is not about my work is not I'm going to fulfill my calling here it's I'm coming to church to be Washington to be served by Jesus. I think if if we can recover this we want to be in church on Sunday Lou and we wouldn't be saying like a guy I needed. I did take a Sabbath from best If you know which is another thing that I've heard to thank you for that question. I I hope you both Mike and are speaking pretty frankly her, but the King of glory is the one who's calling us into his presence is his church. We don't get a cancel that you're listening to core Christianity were answering your questions about the faith. Give us a call if you have a question at 1-833-843-2673. That's 1833.
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Now Joanna asked Isaiah 60 verse 10 says foreigner shall build up your walls and their king shall minister to you for in my wrath I struck you, but in my favor. I have had mercy on you.
How you think that this applies today in the passages referring to people who were not Jews joining the people of God, who in this time were exclusively Jewish prophecies of a future event. And that's exactly what happened in the New Testament.
With the coming of Christ.
The gospel has gone out to all the nations and there being joined to Israel. Another very similar prophecies in Amos nine in that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen, and repair its breaches and raise up its ruins and rebuild it as in the days of old, that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations who are called by my name, declares the Lord, who does this, and it's interesting you know it. A lot of Christians say today that that's about the nation of Israel, but actually you know that. They say that can't refer to the church and to the kingdom of Christ working through the church is referring to the nationstate of Israel because Ely clearly says that in that day I will raise up the booth of David that is fallen, repair its breaches in ruins and so forth. I'll rebuild the city and bring the nations into it, but here's the thing. In acts 15 verses 14 through 21. You have the Council of Jerusalem, where the question about Gentile inclusion is central.
And Peter defends Gentile inclusion what's happening right now God, bringing the Gentiles into the church into Israel by quoting Amos nine is now being fulfilled so you we often talk about prophecy in terms of an already fulfillment and and not yet fulfillment. It is here but not in its fullness and on apostolic authority. We must say that these prophecies refer to the church, Christ's kingdom rather than to the modern state of Israel and yet the vivid language of mountains, flowing with the best wine and Israel being settled in its own land must await a future fulfillment when the whole church, God's new Israel is no longer persecuted what dwells in the earth rains in the earth with Christ in safety. Think of Revelation 5, nine and 10 and they sang a new song, saying, worthy are you to take the scroll and open it seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth, so already that's being fulfilled.
We are gathering together to worship the Lamb from every tribe and tongue and people.
But one day we will rain on a renewed earth together forever with Christ and that should make us stop and think about our own attitude toward people who are of different ethnicity or language or culture. The scene in Isaiah 60 of the nations streaming design should be our delight, and it should be more and more reflected in all of our local churches. A man in the Lord is still bringing ethnic Jews back to him out a little faith in Jesus Christ to think about that wonderful passage in Romans chapter 11 with the apostle Paul talks about the Gentiles being grafted into Christ and Jews. If they have faith also been grafted back into that tree that they were broken off of in the time of the New Testament.
So God is uniting all of us to this beautiful kingdom and the imagery that you were painting there from Isaiah by faith in Jesus Christ absolutely is a great passage there in Romans 11. His his whole argument there is that the tree of Israel is determined really no longer by ethnic descent from Abraham but by having the faith of Abraham.
There was an accord Christianity with author and theologian Dr. Michael Horton were taken.
The questions that you have about the Christian life. Give us a call at 1833 the core or email us at questions at core, Christianity.com and here's our next call.
Colin will not send pastors make salary I wear looking to call a pastor in their collective discussion. I was just wondering what you cannot think yet. Thank you Lexi I'm I'm really glad you brought this up more than they're making currently.
The simple answer the question decided to comment on my comment that I is a living wage. I think that the only passage that I can think of. Here is first Corinthians 9 verses 13 and 14 do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings in the same way the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. So those who say that it's unspiritual or a profanation of the gospel for ministers to be paid a salary in order to have us another job for their income and not have a salary from the ministry. Paul says otherwise.
Here pastors need to give all of their time and energy to ministering the word and the sacraments and discipline and care looking after the sheep full-time. We all need as sheep full-time shepherds and so to do that they need to make enough money where they're not worrying about their income.
If that means you're in a upscale area were things cost a lot, then the pastor there's going to make more than a pastor in a rural area where the standard of living is lower. What would be the median salary of people living in that area and I think that's really helpful micro member conversations. I was having with the Mormon friend of mine. He would always sort of brag by saying you know we in the Mormon church don't have any paid pastors but one thing you seen that passage in first grade into just how important Inc. about acts six you know they devoted themselves to teaching Scripture and that does take time, not just shepherding the flock, but studying Scripture so that we might present it to people and represent God well.
We want our pastors, I think, to be devoted to that full-time as you said is an email we got from Josh should we forgive everyone who sins against us.
What about people who sin against us over and over again such as a practical question. It really is. You know, I can think of times when I've said this guy just doesn't stop. I'm done yet. I've done forgiving them. But Jesus doesn't give me that luxury. He looks over at me in my sinful grudge holding, and says what if I treated you.
That way, Matthew 18 verses 21 to 22 we read then Peter came up and said to Jesus, Lord, how often will my brother sin against me and I forgive him as many as seven times. He thought that was generous. Jesus said to him I do not say to you seven times, but 77 times. In other words, you never stop forgiving because I don't stop forgiving. It's really important I think to say this doesn't mean forgetting. Sometimes it means wipe it out just as God casts our sins far from us, but you can't pretend that there was no offense, and in these previous verses here in Matthew 18 Jesus says that if a fellow believer offends you to try to work it out privately between the two of you. If the offender won't listen. Then take it to the church and it may even lead to church discipline, including excommunication. If they don't listen to the church and so Jesus goes on to say what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and what you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Christ gave this authority to open and close the door to Christ's kingdom through word the sacraments and discipline one more thing if you're in it an abusive relationship, you can still forgive and be wise, you may need to step away from the relationship for a while for your own good. Maybe for their good two or you may need to even bring in others to help handle the situation, but whatever it is you can still forgive. I know a brother whose father was terribly abusive, mentally and physically. The father ended up leaving his family and eventually went to jail for a crime. This brother amazed me with his genuine forgiving attitude toward his dad. In fact, he prays for them every day that he'll come to a saving knowledge of Christ, basins and letters to that effect. Often such acts of forgiveness melt stony heart and people who felt totally unworthy of forgiveness by another human being are led to the unmerited forgiveness of God in Christ. Thanks for listening to court Christianity to request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at court, Christianity.com and click on offers in the menu bar or call us at 1-833-843-2673 that's a 33, the court when you contact us. Please let us know how you been encouraged by this podcast and be sure to join us next time. As we explore the truth of God's word together