Is It OK to Pray to Christian Saints?

Is it okay to pray to Christian saints? That's just one of the questions we'll be answering on today's edition of CORE Christianity. Hi, this is Bill Meyer, along with Pastor Adriel Sanchez, and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. Of course, you can always post your question on one of our social media sites. You can watch Adriel live in the studio right now on our YouTube channel and send him a question that way. And of course, you can always email us your question at questionsatcorechristianity.com. Well, let's go to the phones. D is on the line from Nashville, Tennessee. D, what's your question for Adriel?

Hello, gentlemen. I've noticed that the preaching and teaching that I've heard about forgiveness tends to focus on past incidents, when there is some distance between the offender and the offendee. And that seems easy enough to understand, you're no longer going to feel the hurt feelings towards that person. So you can be fairly certain when you have forgiven them. I'm wondering about situations where the offense is ongoing, you can't really put any distance between yourself and the other person. And maybe you have tried to confront them and they're not showing any willingness to repent or apologize or change anything.

And therefore the offense is likely to continue indefinitely. How then, if those hurt feelings are probably going to continue, how can you know that you have forgiven them? Can I just ask a follow-up question there, Dean?

I'm so sorry to hear about this situation. But are we talking about, is this individual someone who professes faith in Jesus Christ? Yes.

Okay. Well, in terms of the latter part of your question, how can we know that we've forgiven them? I think for our part, forgiveness looks like not wanting to respond in kind, not wanting the worst for this person. Often when somebody is hurting us, we want to respond in kind, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. And so forgiveness on our part, and we're always called to forgive, even if this person doesn't understand and is unwilling to repent. There can't be restoration because there's no repentance. But for us as believers, we can still forgive from the heart.

And I think what that looks like is not wanting or expecting the worst for that person, not plotting revenge, retribution, those kinds of things. And then in terms of actually engaging this person, I think that the best advice I could give you is just thinking about what Jesus said in Matthew chapter 18, where he talks about church discipline. He outlines this in verse 15, Tell him his fault between you and him alone. And if he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

I mean, this is really important stuff. We often, I think, just sort of set aside this whole idea of church discipline. But Jesus said, look, when your brother or sister or someone sins against you in the family, in the context of the believing community, you should go to that person and tell them their fault. And it sounds like you've done that, Dee. And if they're unwilling to listen, well, maybe try to get some other people to go with you, to corroborate, hey, there's an issue here. Go to this person and say, you're sinning. What you're doing is hurting other people.

It's also ultimately hurting you because sin quenches the Spirit of God and the work of God's Spirit in our lives. And so you need to repent. And if they're still unwilling to listen, well, this is an issue that needs to be brought before the church, that is the leadership, the elders in the church. And so I think Jesus gives us a process for this. And I think along the way, if the individual is continuing to sin, we call it what it is.

We call them to repentance, but we do from the heart seek not to retaliate, not to sin against them, but to forgive, pleading with them that they might come to the light, that they might realize that what they're doing is really damaging to their own spiritual life and it's hurting others around them. And so, Dee, I want to just pray for you in this situation because I know how difficult these kinds of things can be within family and within the church. And so I want to pray that God gives you wisdom and ultimately that the Lord brings this other person to repentance.

Father, Lord, we know how devastating it is within the body of Christ, with other Christians, when there isn't peace, when we sin against each other, Lord, and that's a terrible witness before the world when we don't exhibit that unity that you give to us in your son, Jesus. And I pray for Dee right now in this difficulty, this conflict that he's in. I pray that you would give him wisdom. I pray, Lord, that you would help him to forgive from the heart, not because this other person has earned forgiveness, but as we have been forgiven, as Dee has been forgiven, of all of his sins through faith in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that he would be able to forgive also from the heart this person who is sinning against him and hurting him. But I pray for this person as well. Jesus, would you bring them to repentance?

Would you help them to see the error of their ways and ultimately be at work in bringing restoration and healing to this relationship? But please do give Dee wisdom and strength and grace, Lord, in the midst of this situation. We pray in Jesus' name. Amen.

Amen. Just a follow-up question for you, Adriel. Let's say we're looking at Jesus' call to us in Matthew about how to undergo church discipline. What if the individual goes to a different church? Let's say it's a Christian you work with, but you're going to two different churches. How would you carry out that form of discipline then?

It does get pretty messy when you think about it, because that's often the case. We're talking about a believer who maybe goes to another church. So I think you go to that person individually first, and then maybe if you have mutual friends that are close who are also going to be able to come alongside of you to address this issue, then doing the next step. But if the church is a solid church that this other person goes to, where there's elders, there's care for the flock that's happening, I think that at some point you could even reach out to them and say, hey, we have this issue.

We're having this issue. I actually really appreciate it. I've had phone calls from pastors in other churches in my city where I'm at related to pastoral issues in our church or members of our church with other churches, and it's just a great way for us to be able to work together for the good of those people that we're ministering to. So maybe even reaching out to the elders or the pastor there at that church and saying, hey, I'd like some help resolving this issue for the glory of God and for the peace of someone in your church and also for my peace as well.

Great counsel. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. Our phone lines are open if you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life. Here's the number. It's 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. Just to mention that we have a great resource available for you today. It's a new book. Actually, it's a very historic book, but we're offering it new on this program. It's the wonderful book of Confessions by St. Augustine. Yeah, St. Augustine's Confessions.

I mentioned yesterday, yesterday was the first day we offered this resource. This book has really been huge in my own life. When I first read it back in college, it was sort of like my eyes were opened, that the church didn't just start in the 1960s, but that people have been worshipping Jesus and loving Jesus for hundreds of years. You get a glimpse into the life of this individual, St. Augustine, and how the Lord brought him to faith. Let me just say one of the things I really love about this book is it's really devotional. Even though he's sharing his story, the story of his conversion, you're getting some theology in there, but you're also getting a lot of prayer. Throughout the Confessions, he'll just sort of stop and pray and ask God questions or worship God, weaving these sort of quotations from the Psalms throughout the work so that when you're reading it, it's actually really edifying, encouraging, almost devotional. I want to encourage you to get this book, St. Augustine's Confessions.

It's yours for a donation of any amount. I know that it will really encourage you in your walk with the Lord. You can find that by going to our website at corechristianity.com forward slash offers.

Again, corechristianity.com forward slash offers and look for Confessions by Augustine. This is Core Christianity, and we do receive voicemails and emails on a regular basis. In fact, if you want to call us outside of our regular hours here on the air, you can leave a voicemail anytime. Here's the number. It's 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. Here's a voicemail from one of our listeners named Marcus. Hello, Pastor Andrew. I am a Catholic, and I hear a lot of Catholicism and prayer of saints and to Mary, and I think the teaching of prayer to the saints and to Mary is false. I do believe that praying and remembering the saints before us is something of Scripture, but I believe what that is trying to teach us is more so the remembering of those things, remembering of the times that God was really close to these people, the showing of miracles in their lives.

If you may have a comment or anything that may help me further understand this, I'd really appreciate it. Pastor Andrew, may you have a blessed day. In Jesus' name, amen. God bless.

Bye-bye. Hey, Marcus, thank you for that question. You know, I think that I'm really on the same page as you. I know that's different than what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that you can ask the saints to intercede on your behalf, that they're listening and can go to God for us as these sort of mediators, not on the same level as Jesus.

He's the ultimate mediator between God and man, but this is what the Catholic Church teaches. The problem is I don't think that you find any evidence for that in Holy Scripture. You do have, I think, examples of the saints who have gone before us being pointers, if you will, to Christ and to his goodness. I think of Hebrews 11 where you have that great hall of faith, these witnesses who have gone before us who are testifying of the truth of the gospel and the glory of God. But there's no indication in Scripture that we're supposed to be praying to them or asking the departed saints to pray for us.

You know, some of the Protestant Reformers, I mean, they highlighted the fact that this is just not something, a doctrine that you see in the Old Testament or the New Testament. You're going to have a hard time making a case for this because you don't have this commanded anywhere, but some of them would also argue from other places in the Scriptures that it's just something that we shouldn't do. Think of Jeremiah chapter 15 verse 1, and this was actually one of the texts that was in debate around this question where God is talking about the judgment that's coming on his people for their idolatry, for their sin. And we read, this is Jeremiah 15 verse 1, the Lord said to me, though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people.

Send them out of my sight and let them go. So think about what God is saying. Even if Moses and Samuel, these great quote unquote saints, were standing before me, interceding for these people, I wouldn't listen to them. This is sort of a statement that's being made but suggested here is that they're not standing there as intercessors for the people. These saints aren't there standing, praying for Israel, if you will.

What are they doing? Well, they're in heaven. They're worshiping the Lord. And so you just don't have any indication in the Scriptures that we should pray to them and that they're focused on the affairs of our lives specifically. So I think here's what we do in prayers. We go directly to God through Jesus, the mediator between God and man who gives us this boldness of access to the throne of grace so that we don't need to go around through the saints, if you will. We can go directly to God through Jesus. And this is one of the benefits, Marcus, of the new covenant, that our sins have been washed away, that we're justified in Jesus Christ so that I can go directly to God's throne of grace boldly, as the author of the Hebrew says, to get the help that I need. And so one of my concerns when people talk about praying to the saints is I think they can have this view of God that I just really can't approach Him.

He's not approachable. I need to go to these different saints, and they're going to help me get in God's good graces, and through them my prayers are going to be answered. In reality, that minimizes the redemptive work of Jesus Christ in justifying us and in giving us that freedom of access to the Father that we have right now through His priestly work. And so go directly to God through Jesus and pray, and know that God receives your prayers, not because they're perfect, not because we're perfect, but because we're coming through the perfect one, Jesus Christ.

Amen. Thanks for that, Adriel. You're listening to Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. Our phone lines are open right now if you have a question about the Bible, the Christian life, doctrine, theology, or maybe how your Christian walk plays out in today's world with some of the stresses and strains on what it means to be a Christian following Christ in our current culture. Give us a call right now. 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. Let's go to Aaron who's calling in from Missouri. Aaron, what's your question for Pastor Adriel? Yeah, my question is, a while back, I stood up for a coworker that was being ridiculed and made fun of, and I stood up for him, and ever since then, none of my coworkers want to talk or associate with me, and I didn't know if that was related to what Jesus said when he said in John 15-18, it's the world pays you, keep in mind that it hated me first. Appreciate you, and love you guys.

Yeah, thank you. Well, there in John 15-18, you know, Jesus is talking about our relationship to him, and how did the world treat him? We know so many rejected him. I mean, they crucified him.

Why? Because he testified of the world that its deeds were evil. People didn't want to hear it, and Jesus says, look, if you follow me, if you're my children, my disciples, people are going to have a hard time with you as well. Don't think that just because you're a follower of Christ that everything's going to be easy, that everybody's just going to love you. No, in fact, when we're speaking the truth about sin, about the judgment, you know, there are going to be people who reject us, and so I think that's one of the things that Jesus is getting at there in John 15. And then also, I think, you know, when we just live lives that are in accordance with God's law, people who reject the law of God are also going to be upset with us. They're going to disagree with us. They might even feel condemned, judged because of how we're choosing to live, and they realize that there's this area where they fall short.

And so I think that sometimes that could bring about also this sort of conflict with the world. Specifically, though, I don't know that every time we stand up for someone or do the right thing and people don't like it that we need to say, well, this must mean I'm suffering for Jesus. Although I do want to commend you, Aaron, for standing up for your coworker who is being ridiculed. My mind goes to Proverbs 31, verses 8 and 9, which say this, Open your mouth for the mute. For the rights of all who are destitute, open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy. And so when we see somebody being picked on or not cared for, not treated well, I think one of the things God calls us to do is to speak up, is to open our mouth for those who are being, on behalf of those who are being mistreated.

And it sounds to me like that's what you did. And of course, if these people who are ridiculing this individual don't like that, then they're going to have an issue with you as well. But praise God. I think that what you did was a good thing. And may the Lord bless you. And hopefully the Lord gives you opportunities through that to share about Christ with this individual maybe that you stood up for, but also with those others who were being harsh toward this individual. And so God bless Aaron. Thank you for your question. Aaron, thanks so much for listening to CORE Christianity and for standing up for the faith in your workplace. We appreciate that. Well, we do receive emails here at the CORE, and you can email us anytime if you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life.

Here's our email address. It's questionsatcorechristianity.com. And we've got this one from Zachary Adriel. Zachary says, I attend a church that teaches there are two types of Christians, overcoming Christians and defeated Christians. They teach that overcoming Christians are those who frequently obey the Lord's commandments, while defeated Christians frequently disappear. As a result, defeated believers will be temporarily punished to hell to purify them before entering heaven, while the overcoming Christians will not suffer. Is this concept supported by scripture, and is this teaching something to leave my church over? Okay, Zachary, one, no, the concept is not supported by scripture, and two, yes, I would say this kind of teaching is something that you should leave a church over because it's, I mean, essentially it sounds to me like what this is is salvation by works, kind of. You got to, you know, do good so that ultimately you get into heaven, but if you don't do well enough, you're going to have to go to hell for a period of time, and then you can get into heaven after being purified. That was this weird sort of purgatory idea, but that's not even what the Roman Catholic Church believes about purgatory, this idea of going to hell and then going to heaven.

That's not even possible. And so it sounds to me like there's a lot of confusion here. We do sometimes have these sort of ideas that, right, there's this, you know, look, the Christian life is tiered. You have the sort of ordinary Christian life where we're struggling and it's not easy, and then you have the victorious spirit-filled Christian life where you just have that victory over sin. I think it's better to do away with this sort of two-tiered understanding of Christianity and just say, look, the entire Christian life is a fight, is a struggle.

There are going to be seasons where you feel like you're doing really well. There are going to be other seasons where you feel like, man, you're wrestling, you're struggling, but in the midst of all of it, Jesus Christ holds on to you, and he doesn't lose any of his sheep. And so we're clinging to the grace of God, and we're striving after the things of the Lord. We're called to follow the Lord, to grow in the grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ, to grow in good works, to grow in love. This is ultimately the work of the Holy Spirit in us, but we're always going to fall short of that, right? We don't perfectly fulfill the law of God, at least not here on earth. That's something that Jesus did so that in him we might have life and so that we might begin to follow and to obey the Lord. I love the way the Protestant reformer Martin Luther talked about this in some of his discussions on what's called antinomianism.

It's this idea that we don't need the law of God, that we just reject the idea of good works. He says, look, believers in Jesus Christ fulfill the law of God in two ways. One, perfectly through the imputation of Christ's perfect righteousness for us. That is, when you believe in Jesus, you're justified, and the righteousness of Christ is imputed to you so that you can stand before God confidently on the day of judgment.

You're a child of God, justified. In that sense, we fulfill the law perfectly. It's the perfect righteousness of Christ given to us. But then, by the grace and gift of the Holy Spirit in our lives as the justified, we begin to, in this formal sense, imperfectly fulfill the law of God. This is what Paul talks about in Romans 8, we as believers fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law, not so that we can be justified to get saved all over again, and not so that we don't lose our salvation. Again, it sounds like this is some of the issue that's being brought up here with the teaching of this church, but so that we might grow in grace and honor Christ in our lives.

This is exactly what God calls us to. It sounds like this church is really misunderstanding, the teaching is really misunderstanding the doctrine of salvation, the doctrine of justification, the doctrine of eternal judgment. You're going from hell to heaven after you've been purified for a time, just minimizing the justifying act of Jesus Christ. So I would say, yeah, when churches are getting that much wrong, and especially these core Christian doctrines, you need to go somewhere else where the Word of God is going to be faithfully taught. You're not going to be put under this burden of, I have to do this, that, and the other, otherwise God is going to send me to hell for a period of time. That's just not what the Bible teaches. So, Zach, I hope that you do get into a solid church, brother. God bless you. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez.

Time for one more email, and Adriel Derek wants to know this. He says, Since humans are made in the image of God, is it correct to say that each human is three persons of one substance? And what exactly is substance? Is that a term in Scripture? Yeah, I don't think that I would say it's correct to say that. No, and being made in the image of God, especially early on in the early chapters of Genesis, we're talking about the fact that God has made us His own, that we reflect His glory, we're called to reflect His goodness, we're called to rule. In one sense, that's what you see early on in Genesis, is that man made in the image of God is called to rule over the creation. God is the great king, and Adam and Eve there in the garden were like His vice regents, His rulers there, made in perfect righteousness, holiness, the knowledge of God. And then you had the fall, and so the image of God was marred. It wasn't totally taken away, but now we don't reflect God as we should. I think when you try to say, well, being made in the image of God means that we're each kind of our own individual trinity, three persons, one substance, you're merging together a very, I think, we're thinking about God the creator, and then us as creatures, you're bringing those together, I think, a little bit too closely in a way that doesn't reflect well who God is as He's revealed Himself in His word. And so when we talk about the substance of God, that was part of your question, we're talking about who God is, His very essence, His glory, His power, and we believe in God the Holy Trinity, one substance. When you contact us, please let us know how you've been encouraged by this program, and be sure to join us next time as we explore the truth of God's word together.