Should People with Mental Illness Serve in the Church?

Should people with mental illness serve in the church? That's just one of the questions we'll be answering on today's edition of CORE Christianity. Hi, this is Bill Meyer, along with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. And this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day.

We would love to hear from you with your question. You can call us in the next 25 minutes or so. Here's the phone number. It's 833.

The CORE. That's 1-833-843-2673. You can also post your question on our Facebook, Instagram or Twitter accounts. You can watch us on YouTube and you can email us your question at questions at corechristianity.com.

First up today, let's go to Charlotte in Peoria, Illinois. Charlotte, what's your question for Pastor Adriel? Okay.

Once I get the question, can I please read from the Bible? What it says, please. It's very important. Go ahead, Charlotte.

What's your question? I want to know. I believe that Judas is going to be in heaven with me.

I'm going to meet him. And I can almost prove this from the Bible. Okay. Do you have a verse in mind that you were thinking of? Oh, yeah.

It's on Matthew 27, three through five. Can I read that to you real quick? Okay, real quick.

Okay. Jesus, Judas, which betrayed Christ when he realized Christ was condemned, repented and gave back 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, I have sinned. I betrayed innocent blood. Nobody cared. He cast down the money in the temple and departed and went out and hanged himself.

Yeah, Charlotte. Well, thank you, one, for your question. And, you know, the question of, you know, is this person going to be in heaven is always a really difficult question to answer. Now, throughout church history, I think the majority of people have said, you know, Judas is probably not going to be with us in heaven.

And that's also my view. And I want to address that passage that you brought up in Matthew 27. But one of the reasons or a couple of the reasons why Christians have believed this are really because of the words of Jesus himself. In the chapter right before what you read, in Matthew chapter 26, when Jesus is, the context is this sort of Passover meal with his disciples, and Jesus is telling his disciples that he's going to be betrayed. The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, verse 24 of Matthew 26, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed.

It would have been better for that man if he had not been born. The statement like that from Jesus seems to indicate that actually Judas is in a really bad condition here. I mean, when he betrays the Lord, he's turning from Christ, turning from the gospel. You also have Jesus's words, Charlotte, in his high priestly prayer in John chapter 17, beginning in verse 11. Jesus is praying and he's saying, and I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, speaking of his disciples, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them and not lost one of them except the Son of Destruction that the scripture might be fulfilled. There, the Son of Destruction or the Son of Perdition is a reference to Judas. Then what do we make of Matthew 27 where it says that he came forward and he quote unquote repented or he changed his mind, that kind of a thing.

Well, we have to really understand it in its context. It seems to me, Charlotte, like Judas was really remorseful. He had this sense of guilt, but also this hopelessness. He really wasn't clinging to Christ in the gospel, turning from his sin. I think he just realized, what I've done is wrong.

What I've done is terrible. He's loaded down by this sense of guilt, but not the sense of hope that we receive in the gospel. There are great theologians who have talked about this throughout church history, especially comparing Judas with Peter because both of them denied the Lord there in his greatest hour of need. You remember Peter denying Jesus three times and yet Peter is restored and Judas never was. It seems like Peter genuinely repented, turned to the Lord, but Judas was just filled with this sort of remorse. There's a difference between remorse, Charlotte, and repentance.

It's really important for us to understand that. My view is that Judas was not saved, that he's not going to be in heaven, that while he was remorseful because of what he had done, he never clung to the gospel by faith. He never turned to Jesus with hope as Peter did.

That's what differentiates him from Peter. Thanks for your question. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. Let's go to James in Osage Beach, Missouri. James, did I say the name of your town right? Hi. Are you there? Hey, we're here, James.

Yeah, that's Osage Beach, Missouri, yes. All right, thanks for calling. Okay, my question today is, I read two passages of Scripture this morning. One in Romans 12 where it talks about, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may discern the will of God. And then the second passage was out of 1 John, where John was talking about, do not love the world or the things in the world, and if anyone loves the world, will love with the Father's not in him. Then he goes on in the verse 17 where it talks about that the world will pass away with everything in it, but those who do the will of God will abide forever. Now my question is, what is the will of God in pertaining to both Paul and John's message there?

Yeah, thanks for that question. And when the New Testament talks about the world, you know, the word world, cosmos in the New Testament, is often used in different ways. And so we have to take note of that. We can't just interpret the word world in the same way in each and every passage. For example, Jesus, you know, John chapter 3 verse 16 where it talks about God the Father sending Jesus into the world, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. And then John, the same guy who wrote the gospel of John, writes in 1 John 2 15, as you quoted, do not love the world. And so, you know, is there a contradiction there?

No. But in one sense, you know, like there in John chapter 3, it's talking about the fact that God loved sinful humanity, sent his Son into the world to redeem us. In 1 John 2, it seems to be talking about this sort of system of the world in bondage to Satan, you know, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, as John goes on to talk about it elsewhere in the book of 1 John. And then in Romans chapter 12, so I think there's a similarity between those two passages that you brought up, Romans 12 2 and 1 John 2 15, where the world is being depicted as this system of belief, doctrine, if you will, that's contrary to God and the grace of the Holy Spirit. And we do see that in the world today.

You just turn on the news. I mean, it's all over the place. And we're called not to be shaped by that. Don't be conformed to this world, to this age, this present evil age that's passing away, but be conformed to God and to his grace and to the promise of the gospel, the promise of a new age, the age to come that's breaking in already through God's Word and Spirit. And so I would say, I mean, that's the best way to understand that if you're thinking of the world there not being conformed to the world, not loving the world, we're being we're being called not to live for this world, in particular, the sinful desires, the pride of life, those kinds of things that John goes on to speak about, as I said elsewhere in 1 John. Does that help clear it up for you, James?

See, I mean, I was always wondering the world, you know, because the world as people and the world as a system, correct? That's right, yeah. And that's basically what the difference was. I mean, Paul was talking about do not be conformed to the system, and then John says do not love the system. And then it goes on to say, it talks about the will of God. Now, is the will of God different than anything else in that passage? Are you talking about in 1 John chapter 2? Both, because Paul says first, you know, the will of God, discern and test the will of God which is good, acceptable, and perfect, and then John talks about those who, you know, those who do the will of God will live forever.

Yes, yeah, yeah. So first, well, back in Romans chapter 12 verse 2, again, he goes on to say, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, that is what is good and acceptable and perfect. Well, here in particular, I think, and Paul has really similar language, I believe it's in Ephesians chapter 5, where God's will refers to what He's revealed to us, what He calls us to, and I think it's the same thing in the book of 1 John. So we're called not to be shaped by this world, the system of this world, but by what God has revealed to us in His word. That's what needs to shape us by the grace of the Holy Spirit. And so as we are growing in our understanding of God's word, in what God has revealed to us through His law and ultimately through the gospel, that's what's forming us as believers, and that's what's renewing our minds so that we might live in this present evil age in this world and be lights for the Lord. And so thank you again for your question, brother, hope that clears it up, and appreciate you digging into the Scriptures. Thanks, James, appreciate you listening to Core Christianity and your commitment to God's truth.

That is really wonderful. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez. If you have been helped by an answer you heard on Core Christianity and you want to share a previous episode with a friend or family member, you can actually send them a video of our episodes from our YouTube channel.

Be sure to click the subscribe button while you're there so you can follow along for extra videos from us here at Core Christianity. Let's go to Orlando in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Orlando, what's your question for Pastor Adriel? Hello, can you hear me? Hey, Orlando, I can hear you. What's your question, brother? All right, okay, well, I, uh, I was listening to a guy that I really like, uh, things out of, uh, Oklahoma. He brought up something that I have never heard before. Hey, I'm having trouble hearing you, Orlando. Can you, can, what was your question?

Okay. I don't think we're going to be able to get, hey, Orlando, why don't you call us back when you're in a better coverage area and we can get your question from you. Let's go to Al in San Diego. Hi, Al, welcome to Core Christianity. Hi, I'm, uh, hi Pastor Adriel, thank you for the program. I'm, uh, so I'm a relatively new believer and I, uh, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the word of God says and what I should believe about it. Anyways, I'm kind of deliberating right now, but whether I should be a Presbyterian or a Lutheran, what do you think the differences between those two traditions are and what do you, how important do you think they are? Hey, Al, appreciate your question.

Uh, good to, to come across another brother in San Diego. And I'm also, uh, grateful to hear that the Lord has brought you to himself, that you're a new believer. I pray that you continue to grow and, uh, dig into the scriptures.

Um, and so, you know, let me, let me just be real quick here. Um, the, the primary difference between, I mean, historically between Presbyterians and Lutherans, um, has been on questions related to the Lord's supper. I would say that's a big one. Um, in the presence of Jesus in the Lord's supper, uh, that's, that's going to be key.

That was one of the big things that sort of led to a split between Luther and other reformers, uh, during the time of the Reformation was, uh, an understanding of the Lord's supper. And so, and I mean, those things are important. Let me just say, you know, this program, this broadcast is all about core Christianity, the fundamentals of the Christian faith. And what I will say, Alice, you know, historically Lutherans and Presbyterians, you know, that they've agreed on those things. You think about the Nicene creed or the apostles creed, just the fundamentals of the gospel. And so that's something to celebrate that we praise God for.

Um, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other really important questions that we need to explore. And I pray that the Lord gives you wisdom, um, as you, uh, continue to explore these questions and, uh, and that would be one of the big differences between those two, um, branches of Christianity, if you will. Thank you, Al. Appreciate that question.

This is core Christianity. And by the way, we know that we have some listeners, maybe you, or maybe someone you love who is struggling with depression. And if that's the case, we want to tell you about a resource that we have available to you on our website. Yeah, a really important resource, Nine Things Everyone Should Know About Depression.

It's yours when you sign up for our weekly newsletter. It's a free resource for you. There are a lot of people who struggle with, I was reading a statistic just the other day, Bill, I think it's something like, uh, one in five people who, who struggles with some kind of a mental illness and then one in 25 with a real serious, um, sort of mental illness, often very serious depression. And I'm sure you know the statistics as well, Bill. It's so important that we have a good understanding, uh, in these areas so that we can encourage each other and for ourselves also, um, just absolutely crucial.

So get ahold of this resource, Nine Things Everyone Should Know About Depression. All you have to do is go to our website, corechristianity.com forward slash offers to get that particular resource. Or you can call us for that or any one of our resources at this number, 833-THE-CORE. That's 833-843-2673.

Well, let's go to a voicemail that we received yesterday from Stacy in Austin, Texas. My question is, can someone whose mental illness is well controlled by their medication become a leader in the church? I've known people who were fine working in the church while their mental illness was out of control. And once they decided to do something about it and that something wasn't Bible study, but medication, these people were invited to leave. I think this is very unfair, but I wanted to know what the Bible says about it, if it says anything, and what your opinion is. Thank you, and I look forward to hearing your answer.

Goodbye. Hey Stacy, thank you so much for that very thoughtful question. My view on this, I mean, I would agree.

I think that that is unfair. Can someone who has mental illness be qualified for ministry? I think that the answer is yes. Sin disqualifies an individual from ministry. Sickness or mental illness does not necessarily, but this is an area where you have to exercise. Individuals need to exercise a great degree of wisdom. It's especially important to have support, accountability if you have a mental illness, and to recognize that church work, especially the call to the pastorate, is a burden that could make things worse if you're not careful, if you don't have that kind of accountability, and if you're not taking the proper medications. And so I think it doesn't need to be something that keeps someone from the ministry necessarily, but that you need to exercise wisdom here.

And let me just say this other thing. God uses us even with our weaknesses. Think back to Exodus chapter 4, when God was calling Moses to speak on his behalf, and Moses was saying, you know, Lord, I'm not the best guy for you to choose.

I have these issues. He says, Oh my Lord, I am not eloquent either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue. And do you remember, Stacy, what the Lord said to Moses in response? Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute or deaf or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord? You see, God says, I'm still going to use you, despite the fact that you have this weakness, this infirmity. God uses us even with our weaknesses. You think of the apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians chapter 12, where he talked about boasting in his weaknesses in the areas of his life where there was need, because it was there precisely that the power of God, by the grace of the Holy Spirit, was shining through where Jesus was being glorified. And there have been people, Stacy, throughout the history of the church, who I think have battled with things like depression and other mental illnesses, but who have been used mightily by the Lord.

Sometimes people will appeal to Charles Spurgeon. He was this great Baptist preacher, led many people to the Lord, but also struggled with this sense of gloom, with this sense of depression. There are a lot of people who think that he really had this sort of clinical depression, and yet he was used mightily by the Lord. And so, again, sin is what disqualifies an individual from ministry, not sickness or mental illness. But we have to exercise wisdom here, and we have to know, going into the ministry in particular, what it is that we're taking on, because there are particular challenges associated, especially with the pastorate, that can add extra burden.

And so it may not be the wisest thing for someone who's really wrestling with some of these things to do it, but that doesn't mean that that's necessarily true. And so you have to use wisdom, you have to seek the Lord, there needs to be accountability, and that's my answer to your question. So thank you for giving us a call, Stacy. God bless. Stacy, I'm not sure what this individual is struggling with, but we mentioned that depression resource.

If that individual that you know in the church has a struggle with depression, here again was that wonderful resource we have, Nine Things You Need to Know About Depression, and you can find that by going to corechristianity.com forward slash resources. Well, let's go back to Orlando, who was calling from Fort Smith, Arkansas. Orlando, we had a little trouble with your phone line before, but go ahead with your question for Pastor Adriel.

Okay, thanks. I was just curious, I was listening to a guy that I really like, his name is Les Svelvick out of Oklahoma, and he brought up something I hadn't heard before, and I was wanting to get some clarity on it as far as he'd mentioned that Jehovah in the Old Testament is Jesus in the New Testament, and I have always understood that Jehovah was the Father and Jesus was the Son, but he says that the Father's name, that Jesus' name would be exalted above all names in Philippians 2-9, and he states that Jesus is Jehovah, they're both the I Am, and the Father is separate, and I was wanting to just get your take on that. Thank you for that question. I love this question, and I've had this similar discussion with people, when I get in a conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, who are really excited about the name Jehovah and concerned that the covenant name of God has been taken out of the Bible or translated as Lord, I oftentimes will say, well, actually, in the New Testament, many of the passages that applied to Jehovah God in the Old Testament are applied to Jesus in the New Testament, so Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah Orlando is the covenant name of God in the Old Testament.

It really focuses on God's personal relationship with his people, his steadfast covenant love for them as he's revealed himself to his people as Jehovah, as the Lord God Almighty, and when you go to the New Testament, oftentimes, Jesus, as I said, was referred to as Jehovah, so one of the places that I'll go is, for example, in Hebrews 1, where the author of the Hebrews is talking about the supremacy of Jesus Christ, and he quotes from Psalm 102, but he applies it to Jesus. He's quoting from Psalm 102, and then in Hebrews 1, verse 10, it says, and you, Lord, he's speaking of Jesus here, laid the foundation of the earth. In the beginning, the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain. They will wear out like a garment, like a robe.

You will roll them up like a garment. They will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will have no end. What's so amazing about that is if you go to the Old Testament, Psalm 102, the Lord there is Yahweh, Jehovah, the covenant God, so the author of the Hebrews had no problem saying that Jesus is Jehovah, but I think that that covenant name can be applied to all the members of the Trinity, so I don't think that's Jesus, but it can't be applied to the Father. I think that you see both in the Old Testament, and so I wouldn't draw maybe as sharp of a distinction as it sounds like this other brother is making, but I do think that we can say with full confidence that the New Testament, when it talks about Jesus, when we're being presented with the identity of our Lord Jesus Christ, has no problem applying those passages of Scripture in the Old Testament that we're talking about, Jehovah God, the covenant God of Israel, to Jesus.

Jesus is Jehovah, so thank you for your question, brother. Hope that clears it up for you. Good question. Thank you so much, Orlando, for your question.

Appreciate that. Well, let's go to one quick email question that came in from Julia. She says, how involved should the church be in political issues? Is it important that the church leaders address these issues or support or reject certain bills and petitions or endorse political leaders? Yeah, so as a pastor, as a minister of the gospel, I'm an ambassador of Jesus Christ and his kingdom. That's the focus, and so we're proclaiming the kingdom of God. I get really uneasy when pastors begin to focus a lot on politics and beginning to endorse a particular candidate or pressure their members to get in line with this maybe particular legislation, that kind of a thing. That doesn't mean that there aren't things out there that we should completely reject on the basis of what God's word says, and so we do preach and apply the word of God to everything, to every aspect of life, but our job as ministers of the gospel is not to lead people into our own political persuasions. It's to lead people into the kingdom of God. That's where our primary citizenship rests. That's what the apostle Paul says in Philippians chapter three, and so I think we should encourage people to be involved, to be engaged with the things that are going on around them, in particular for the good of their neighbor, those who are in need, while focusing on the gospel and the proclamation of the gospel in the world today. And be sure to join us next time as we explore the truth of God's word together.