Whom Did Jesus Die For?

What exactly is Christian discipleship and how do I practice it? That's just one of the questions we'll be answering on today's edition of CORE Christianity. Hi, this is Bill Meyer, along with Pastor Adriel Sanchez, and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. And you can call us right now with your question at 833-THE-CORE. 833-843-2673.

You can also email us with your question at questions at COREChristianity.com, and we have an Instagram account, a Facebook page, you can post your question there as well. To start off with today, we have another one of our good news stories to share with you. A terrifying moment has turned into a lifelong bond between a woman, her baby, and a South Carolina deputy sheriff.

Here's what happened last summer. Deputy William Kimbrough pulled over a car for speeding and found a frantic mother inside. The woman's 12-day-old baby had stopped breathing. Well, Deputy Kimbrough performed life-saving CPR on the baby, and the entire thing was captured on his body cam. The baby, named Riley, went on to make a full recovery. And one year later, Deputy Kimbrough was invited to her very first birthday party. And at the party, he got a special surprise.

He received a card asking him to be Riley's godfather. Isn't that a cool story? That's really cool.

Yeah, I love those stories, man. Talk about saving a life and being in the right place at the right time. Praise God providentially that he was there to be able to help in that moment of need. God's providence, so that's beautiful.

Well, let's get to our first question of the day. This is an email that came in from Gerald. And Gerald says, Is it possible to have sins unpaid for? In other words, when Jesus said from the cross, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Were those people forgiven, or did Jesus die for those sins? Should we assume that all the people in the crowd were eventually saved because Jesus forgave their sins?

I guess I have a similar question about Stephen when he was being stoned. Well, I don't think, Gerald, that we need to assume that they were or that they weren't saved. One of the things that Christ secured by his death on the cross, I mean, who are we talking about here? We're talking about the eternal word of the Father, Jesus the Son, assuming humanity, taking on flesh, so that he might in that humanity suffer and die for our sins. It's what Paul said in Acts chapter 20, verse 28.

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. The blood of Jesus is of infinite value because it was offered up by the eternal Son of God. And so we could say that the blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the entire world.

We just can't put a limitation on it. And yet only those who are united to Christ by faith receive the power, the efficacy of that blood, what that blood was intended for. And it was intended for the church. It's what Paul, again, if he's speaking to the Ephesian elders there in Acts 20, 28, what he says, Christ obtained the church with his blood. So only those who trust in Jesus Christ receive the application of Christ's redemptive work.

And as I said, I'd even go a step further. I'd say that God in his sovereignty sent his Son specifically to atone for the sins of the church, Christ's bride. But in terms of the sufficiency of Jesus's blood, we're talking about the blood of God.

It's of infinite value. And so I think when we preach the gospel, when we talk to people about the redemptive work of Jesus, we just preach it. It's the free offer of the gospel that goes to all people indiscriminately. And we preach it as good news for you. Christ loves the world. We could say he died for the world. But only those who are united to him by faith experience the benefits of that redemption. And that's an important distinction.

You see it all over the place. You see it in Romans 5 as Paul is talking about the first Adam and the last Adam and the work of the last Adam, Jesus Christ on our behalf, and the free gift of righteousness that is received by faith alone. It's really important for us to understand that distinction, I think, in terms of Jesus's prayer on the cross and then even Stephen's prayer as he's being stoned to death where he prays for the forgiveness of the people around him. Were all of those people forgiven?

I don't know. I think that's speculative. I do know that one of the people that was there when Stephen was being stoned was Saul of Tarsus. And he's praying for the people who were there, and it seems like the Lord—I think that this is just so neat. In the book of Acts, you have Stephen praying for the people who are persecuting him. Saul of Tarsus is there, and Saul of Tarsus later on is going to come to faith, and he becomes Paul, the apostle. And so some of them certainly were, but we can't speculate about everyone there. I don't think that we need to because I think that Jesus could make those kinds of statements.

Stephen could say those kinds of things just on the basis of the fact that the blood of Jesus is of infinite value, sufficient for the sins of all, but efficient only for the sins of those who trust in Jesus. Gerald, thanks so much for your email, for your question. We appreciate hearing from you. You can call us with your question here at 833-THE-CORE. That's 1-833-843-2673. By the way, you can also record your question at the CORE Christianity website. Here's what you do. Go to corechristianity.com slash radio. Look for the little microphone on the right-hand side of the page.

Just click on that, and you can record your question anytime, 24 hours a day. Here's a question we had come in from Linda. In 2 Peter 3, 20, it speaks of Christ going to, quote, the abyss and speaking to demons that were there. And I'm wondering, is that abyss still in existence, or demons, people who have severely disobeyed God's law, do they go there? Is it like a purgatory? Is it a temporary holding place? I am confused. I would like for you to talk about it.

Thank you. Yeah, Linda, well, you're bringing up one of those texts of scripture that is, I mean, this is one of the ones where there are all sorts of different interpretations. I think what you actually mean is 1 Peter 3, verse 20, but there are things in 2 Peter that kind of allude to what it sounds like you're talking about. For example, in 2 Peter chapter 2, verse 4, Peter said, if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment, and if he did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly. And then he goes on to describe the fact that God judges those who sin. Now, in 2 Peter, in the context there, Peter is really talking about the false teachers who have crept into the church and are leading people astray, and they're going to be judged, they're going to be condemned by God because of their sin and unbelief. But I think, in terms of originally, the verse that you were referring to, I think you're talking about 1 Peter chapter 3, and I'm going to begin in verse 18. It says, for Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison because they formerly did not obey when God's patience waited in the days of Noah. While the ark was being prepared, in which few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. And so, this idea of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison.

Now, there are all sorts of questions that this raises. Is Jesus preaching to who? Is this the time in between Jesus' death and resurrection, which is what many people will say? And the question related to who the spirits are, there are some who have said that the spirits refer to fallen angels, and the idea is Jesus is proclaiming his victory over the principalities and powers. Some have said that it refers to the Old Testament saints who were kept in this sort of purgatory, if you will, that are then subsequently released by Jesus through the preaching of the gospel. Others have said it's the unbelieving in the days of Noah that Jesus has gone to preach to them and give them a second chance at salvation. There's just so many different ways to take this text, and I think, actually, a lot of the ones that I just mentioned are not the most helpful because there's nothing, one, in Scripture that would indicate that after we die, we get a second chance.

So, I think that interpretation could be ruled out immediately. I think one way that we could look at this in terms of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison, some people have taken this to mean not that necessarily Christ himself was preaching, but that through Noah, Christ was being preached. Now, back in 1 Peter 1, in verse 11, Peter says this, or I'll start in verse 10, concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. And so, some have said Noah is filled with the spirit of Christ as he's preaching, and 2 Peter 2, verse 5 does call Noah a herald of righteousness. So, the idea might be that Noah is actually the one who's preaching here to the people in his day in the spirit of Christ, with Christ living in him. Now, that's one way of taking this text, and I think it sort of makes sense in the context.

Another way, I think, is just the idea that Christ is, after his death and resurrection, proclaiming victory over the spirits in prison. Those are at least the two that I lean toward in terms of interpretation, but I think that with these kinds of texts, this is a really important principle of interpretation. We always want to let the clear passages of scripture interpret the less clear ones, and this certainly seems like a less clear passage of scripture to me. And so, I think those two interpretations are probably the safest, and they fit the context, and they are in line with the other things that we find throughout the Bible.

Thanks for your question. Adriel, I'm so glad you mentioned one of the key principles of good hermeneutics, basically how do we interpret these passages that are unclear to us, and I would encourage every believer to really study up on how to interpret God's word in the most effective way. You're listening to Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez, and you know, one of the things we do here is we strive to help you understand the core truths of the Christian faith. Every time we answer one of your questions, every article we run on our website, every resource we produce here is seeking to help you gain a clearer understanding of the gospel, the core message of Christianity. But you know, we need your support to do it.

That's right, Bill. We are a listener-supported program, and if you've benefited or been encouraged by the answers to questions about the Christian faith that you hear on Core Christianity, we would like to ask you to please consider sending a gift now to help us continue. As a thank you for a gift of $20 or more, we'll send you our new resource, How to Read the Bible. This is a resource that shows you how to answer some of the most important questions you hear us answer on the show. Most importantly, this resource will help you answer questions about the Bible and how its grand message points to Jesus. The How to Read the Bible resource introduces you to the history of the Bible, key concepts that help tie the Old and New Testament together, and key ideas from the main sections of the Bible and more. It's a 10-week study that can be used in personal devotions, Sunday school classes, or your Bible study group.

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Of course, you can also call us for any of our offers at 833-843-2673. That's 833-the-core. Someone posted this on our Instagram account. I'm really confused about discipleship.

What is it, and what does it look like practically? Yeah, I'm really glad that we received this question, Bill. Such an important one. What does discipleship look like, and what does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus? I mean, he stated it very clearly. Right before he ascended into heaven, he told his disciples, Go into all the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you always to the end of the age. It's in the end of Matthew's Gospel, the very end of Matthew's Gospel, Matthew 28, beginning in verse 19. A disciple is a learner. Discipling is training people up in Jesus' word so that we might grow up into the image of Jesus. I love the way Paul describes it in Ephesians chapter 4. In Ephesians chapter 4, he talks about how God has given us these different gifts, these blessings, as the Church. He talks about pastors and teachers training us up in God's word, and then he continues in Ephesians chapter 4, verse 13, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to mature manhood. See, we're talking about maturity here, growing up in the faith to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness and deceitful schemes, rather speaking the truth in love. We are to grow up in every way into Him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. You see how important there the truth is, knowing the truth of God's word.

Why? So that we're not led astray by these winds of doctrine, false teaching that so easily captivates people, those who are susceptible to it, because they're not grounded in the Gospel, rooted in the teaching of Holy Scripture. Now, there is a lot of confusion, I think, today about discipleship. A disciple is a learner, we're growing up into the image of Jesus, but how does that happen? I remember being in a church years ago and serving at that church.

I was involved in ministry there. I wasn't a pastor yet, but we had this big push for discipleship. And basically the way we define discipleship, and this is how I think a lot of churches today will define it, is we said, look, you find someone that you're going to disciple, an individual in the church, and you meet up with this person, and you go to a Starbucks or to a coffee shop, and you read a book together that's going to help you grow in your understanding of the faith, and maybe you feel like you're a little bit further along spiritually than this person so you can help them mature. And you should even be discipled by someone else, someone else in the church who's more spiritually mature than you are.

And so discipleship very much felt like this one-on-one meeting with someone else in the church, going through some sort of Christian education material, a book perhaps, or even just reading through a book of the Bible together. And I think that that's wonderful. I'm not knocking that. I don't think that that's a bad thing to do. I think it's those kinds of, you know, let's get together and talk about the Word and grow in our understanding of Scripture.

That's great. I got into a conversation with a brother in that church, an older brother who expressed to me his frustration because he said, you know, I'm not really good at this kind of thing. I don't feel like I can teach others. It's just not my gift.

I don't feel like I can do that. So it was really hard for him to sit down with somebody else and try to disciple them when discipleship was defined by, we're going to sit down and read a book and I'm going to teach you this book, this theology. He had a hard time. That just was not his gift. Do you know what his gift was?

I knew what it was because I knew him pretty well. His gift was barbecue. He just, he was an amazing cook and he and his wife, they would throw these big barbecues and everybody would be there in the church. They had the gift of hospitality.

And you know what? A lot of ministry happened there in their house. A lot of discipleship, not because they were teaching, but because they were hosting and other people were talking and teaching. And I think that's the kind of view of discipleship that we need to have. Each one of you has been gifted by the Lord uniquely.

1 Corinthians chapter 12 makes this very clear. We're not all gifted in the same way. There are gifts of administration. There are gifts of help. There are gifts of hospitality. There are gifts of faith.

There are different ways that God has gifted us. And each of us, as we're using our unique gifts for the building up of the body, leads to and contributes to the building up of the whole. So discipleship, here's the point that I'm making, isn't a one-on-one thing. It involves the whole church. It's as we're gathered together under the word, hearing the gospel preached, being taught the scriptures, growing in our understanding of the scriptures, using our gifts for the benefit of the whole, and others using their gifts for the benefit of the whole, and all of us coming together so that the body, as Paul said there in Ephesians 4, the text that I just read, is built up in love. And we grow up into that mature man that Paul speaks of there, spiritual maturity.

It's a group effort. I try to remind the people in my church of this from time to time. As the pastor, it's not all about me. I can't train up the whole church on my own. If it was just my gifts, if it's the pastor by himself trying to do everything, well, that's not going to be a very healthy church. No, I have a part to play, and so does every single other person in the church, a unique part to play.

I teach and preach the word of God, right? I mean, that's a pretty key part there, but guess what? So are the gifts of hospitality. They're so important. So are the gifts of help.

So are the gifts of administration. That is not my gift, and it's only as we're using all of our gifts together that the church is built up. So what does discipleship look like? How do we grow up into the image of Christ? It looks like being a part of a local church, growing together with other believers, using your gifts, and benefiting from the gifts of others under the ministry of the word, so that together, with what each joint supplies, as Paul said in Ephesians 4, we're built up in love. Adriel, that guy that you mentioned who had the gift of barbecue, can we invite him over here and maybe he could... It's one of my favorite gifts of the Spirit. This is Core Christianity with Pastor Adriel Sanchez, and if you have a question for us, you can call us anytime at 833-THE-CORE.

That's 1-833-843-2673. Grayson called us. He's 17 years old and lives in Houston, and he had this question.

When is it ever okay to lie? Thank y'all for everything y'all do. Y'all help out so many Christians around the world. Thank you. Grayson, it is good to hear from you again, man. We're going to have to start, Bill, having a frequent flyer card for people who call in more than once. Well, and his questions are always so great. I know, I know.

Grayson, praise the Lord, encouraged always to get your calls. Well, so lying is a violation of the ninth commandment. Don't bear false witness against your neighbor. So the question of when is it okay to break the ninth commandment, I want to say it's never okay. Sin is sin. But then you do have these examples in scripture where it seems like there was a little bit of deception involved there that maybe was later praised or viewed as a positive thing. I'm thinking specifically of the example that we have in Joshua chapter 2 with Rahab and the spies, essentially, that she conceals. And so that's, I think, one instance where potentially you have someone for the sake of saving a life, not telling the whole truth per se. But I think we have to be really careful because we're often looking, Grayson, for justifications to disobey God. It's like Jeremiah said, you know, the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately sick.

Who can know it? We will look, we will search for loopholes, for ways that the law of God doesn't apply to me. I have a free pass here, and we have to be careful with that. Now, it's one thing to imagine, you know, if this is World War II and I was hiding Jews and the Nazis came, would I hand them over?

Well, I think the right thing to do in that situation would be to pull a Rahab. But most of us don't experience that, so I think it's best for us to say we just shouldn't lie or deceive. And the thing is, we're tempted to deceive, and the reason we're so often tempted to deceive is because we want to make ourselves look better than we actually are. The beautiful thing about the Gospel, Grayson, is that because we have a place we can go with our sins, because Jesus paid the price for my sin, for your sin, I can be honest about the fact that I'm a sinner.

We all can. We don't have to pretend. We don't have to have what Dietrich Bonhoeffer called in his book, Life Together, the Fellowship of the Pious, where, you know, in the church, and I'm sure you've seen this, so many people have talked about this, how, you know, it just seems so artificial sometimes when I go to church.

Everybody has this smile on and everybody's putting forward their best front. Well, we don't have to. We can be honest about the fact that we're broken, that we need grace.

Why? Because we have the Gospel, and we can have fellowship with each other in honesty. We don't have to conceal, we don't have to lie. We can be honest with each other because of what Jesus has done. And boy, that is so freeing to be able to know, like, I know the people in my church and they know me, and we're united, not by the fact that we're perfect, but by the fact that we're redeemed by the blood of Jesus. And so we should strive for transparency in the church because of what Christ has done for us instead of saying, when is it okay to lie? Thanks for your question. As we explore the truth of God's Word together.