Dr Steve Turley God Mandated nationalism Created Nations with Borders Defeat Communism Globalism 082321

Thank you for tuning in to Chosen Generation. Chosen Generation. If your church or group would like to have Pastor Greg come and share his passion to raise up a chosen generation, he is available to bring that same life-changing message and anointing to your event.

Again, that number is 830-446-3624. Give us a call and keep on listening because you are God's chosen generation. Welcome to Chosen Generation with your host, Pastor Greg Young. And welcome to the program. Thanks so much for being here. I do know you have a choice in where you can listen each and every day.

And I thank you for keeping it tuned here to Chosen Generation Radio. Well, folks, lots and lots for us to talk about today here. And I'm really pleased to have my next guest with me. I want to start out before I introduce my very special guest by just giving you a couple of Scripture references for what we're doing here. Ephesians 5-11. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5-11. Psalm 94-16. Who will rise up for me against the wicked?

Who will stand for me against those who practice iniquity? And I would recommend that you read all of Psalms 94. Very pleased to welcome my next guest to the program. You can read or find out about him at TurleyTalks.com. TurleyTalks.com. And I want to welcome to the program. He is an internationally recognized scholar, speaker, and author, widely considered to be one of the most exciting voices in today's intellectual dark web.

And he really, I just love having him on the show. Dr. Steve Turley joins me. Dr. Turley, welcome. Good to have you. Hey, Pastor Greg.

Great to be back with you. Well, man, there's so much for us to discuss and to talk about. I'd like to begin with that last thing that we talked about relative to how the left likes to change definitions, change names, and the biblical references for God's own, you know, word about nations and boundaries and how, you know, how God gave Abraham specific boundaries for a nation. And yet we're told, and we even have churches running around saying, oh, we should have open borders. We should invite everybody. Everybody should be able to come in.

Let's not have any boundaries. Dr. Turley, help me. Help me with this. Well, yeah, unfortunately, pastors who say anything like that have forgotten precisely where we got the whole concept of nation from. I would, you know, I would recommend, well, unfortunately, it's a scholarly journal, so it might be hard to find on the internet. You have to find it in a library, but it's by historian Diana Applebaum. And she did a wonderful study that found that the nation state project of the 16th and 17th centuries, of which were all beneficiaries, it's known as the Westphalian system. And this is where you start getting, you know, very set borders and boundaries and the like in a world map that was deeply inspired by what she called the biblical narrative of nationhood.

How do you like that phrase? The biblical narrative of nationhood. And basically what she shows is that Christians inspired by the reformation not only rediscovered the Bible, but in doing so, they rediscovered a vision of the world arranged according to kindreds and tongues and lands and nations. So the biblical world is imagined as made up of a number of sovereign and equal nations that are then reinterpreted in light of the redemptive covenantal vision of Israel, where God promises to make Abraham into a mighty nation. And now the world can be seen as comprised potentially of innumerable new Israel's in faithfulness to God and his redemption in Christ.

So this is what Applebaum calls the biblical model of nationhood. We also have to remember that the very first nations that were formed in the 17th century, through the treaties of Westphalia, they had as their sort of motto, quius regio eus religio, whose region, his religion. And what we have to remember is we started to see the fall of the Holy Roman Empire with the Holy Catholic Church sort of dominating the scene. Now with Protestant, Reformation, Calvinist churches appearing all throughout the map of Europe, various princes, they were no longer the same church anymore. One would be a Catholic, one would be a Lutheran, one would be Reformed. And so the saying came out, quius regio eus religio, whatever your prince's faith is, that's going to be the religion of his region.

So whosoever region it is, that is his religion. So ironically, ironically, the model that we saw, for example, with Henry VIII, when he declared he was no longer part of the Holy Roman Empire, that got followed by the Dutch, the Scots, the Swiss, the French, and they were all defined by their Christian faith, which Christian faith they held to. And let's not forget as well that the United States of America, our original 13 colonies, were begun and the separation of each one of those states really had to do with a denominational flavor. Exactly. Christianity was the underlying thing that united the states, and it's so important to understand that, and of course also we've got to understand the danger of Islam and why Islam doesn't have a role or can't have a role, because it's antithesis to a Christian nation. But setting that aside, our country was founded as a Christian nation with 13 different views, denominationally, but one overarching Christian understanding that united us. Oh, absolutely.

And again, same with Europe as well, absolutely. There's just no way around that. I mean, the Christian founding of the United States is absolutely rooted in Christian soil.

There's just no way around that. And religious freedom comes from Christian ideals of the integrity of human conscience, the conscience. Conscience, I should say. Absolutely. So why is it important then that this idea of nationalism be vilified, and why does communism attack the idea of nationalism? Well, communism is a globalist ideology, and globalist ideologies by definition don't like borders or boundaries. So it's a universalistic ideology that works in universalistic terms. So whether it was the economic communism of the 20th century that looked at the world as made up of an oppressor, oppressed structure of the bourgeois versus the proletariat in very class-based terms, that applied to every society. Every single society had a bourgeois and a proletariat. Well, the same goes now for the cultural Marxism of the 21st century, where cultural categories such as gender and race and sexuality apply equally to all cultures, all societies.

And you'll find too that there's no way for you to demure from this. So if somebody says, I'm all for women's rights, what is the antithesis to that so that we can have a discussion and a debate? Well, from their angle, you have to be anti-woman. If I'm LGBT right, what's the only possible way I can demure from that?

Well, that's only if you're homophobic and you hate gay people. So they work in these totalizing categories for which there is no possible alternative. And so what, again, what made Christianity very interesting here is there was the recognition, OK, you've got your Reformed Christian, you got your Lutheran Christian, you got your Catholic Christian. And now we can in our best moments, we can have a debate and we can have a discussion here. But because there were boundaries, there were borders. And when you have boundaries and borders, you can have discussions. But in communism, there is Marxism. There is no, it's universalistic. There are no boundaries.

And therefore, by definition, there can be no discussions. Either you're with us or you're out. Well, and that is another reason why, you know, Jefferson and our founders said, hey, Christianity is the religion that will be the preferential religion of America because, you know, and I said Islam is an antithesis and it is. But there were some Muslims that lived in America back at our founding. We just made sure that they didn't create a situation where they were trying to take America over.

That was held in check. Certainly, I'm sure that there were people that practiced all kinds of sexual perversions in the late 1700s and the early 1800s and so on. We know that those perversions existed. Paul writes about them in Romans. So we know that they didn't cease, OK?

But they were not given the ability by law to be taught in our schools such as they are today. That's the difference. That's right. That's right.

Yeah. And it was just a very different conception of the human person back then. You know, scholars refer to the way humanity oriented themselves to the world prior to the rise of modernity and secularism and liberalism as something called cosmic piety. And so it didn't matter whether you were in Europe or in Africa or Middle East or Asia, whatever, Native America, every single people group had the sense that the world was filled with divine meaning and purpose. And therefore, every person born into the world was born to some kind of divine obligation. We were blind to inform our lives into a harmonious relationship with that divine meaning and purpose. Even when you get into some really out there kind of sexual things and the like, oftentimes they believe that they were actually fulfilling their cosmic purposes.

They were instruments of cosmic fertility and the like. And so what we are dealing with today is something very, very different. We're dealing with a modern globalist, scientific rationalist perspective that reduces the world solely to biology, chemistry and physics. And therefore, the world has no divine meaning and purpose. And therefore, nobody has any divine obligations apart from that which you personally choose to impose upon yourself. And really, for the first time in history, in human history, we're increasingly being told that if you bring those divine obligations into the public square or the public sphere, then you are a modern day Taliban.

You are transgressing the line between religion and science and church and state and so on. Whereas all of our founding fathers, every single one of them had a sense that they were obliged to conform their lives into a harmonious relationship with the divine meaning and purpose of the world. And I think, you know, I mean, you want to look at a scriptural basis for that. Look at Psalm 139, right, where he writes. Well, he goes through talking about how you can't escape him from a negative way, but from a very positive aspect. And then he says, I wrote out the days of your life before you drew your first breath. In other words, we understand Dr. Turley and I that we're having this conversation. You're listening to this today because God divinely wrote out. So there are things for you to get today that you're not going to get any other time in your life. But in this moment, right now, we're back after this. We're built by regular folks who feel the same way you do.

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That's T-U-R-L-E-Y, TurleyTalks.com. You know, we're talking about this divine meaning and divine purpose, and I think that's so critical to understand, especially right now. When you think about where we are and all the, you know, you look at Afghanistan, you look at what the Biden administration is doing, you look at what happened to Hobby Lobby, $220,000, because, yeah, they're not going to let a man go into the women's restroom in their store, for goodness sake. You know, another lady in Colorado that is being put out of business because she won't do same-sex, whatever those things are, you can't call it a marriage, folks, you just can't.

But she won't create websites for those, although she's doing other wedding websites. My point in all this is, in the midst of all of this, you can get lost and forget that God's divine plan and purpose is being played out. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely it is. Yeah, I mean, I think Eric Hoffman, the University of London demographer, did a fantastic study back in 2013 called Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? And his argument is fascinating.

It's a very big study, a few hundred pages, tons of footnotes, very well cited. But his argument is basically this. Look, liberal globalism, by its nature, enshrines each person as a sovereign individual. You have total sovereign control, supposedly as it were, over your life and all your life's decisions.

You have no moral obligations apart from that which you choose for yourself, including reproduction, including fertility. Now that's radically different than the conservative religionist position. And again, we're talking, it doesn't even matter what, we're talking about Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, well, maybe not so much Buddhist, but well, yeah, there's still Buddhist in the more popular sense of terms, maybe not monks, per se. All of these faiths believe that children were gifts of God in some way, shape or form. And so they saw the family as inherently sacred.

The family was a vessel in some way, shape or form of divine activity within this world. And so when you compare those two, one says that the family is whatever I want it to be. Kids are great. Kids are bad.

It doesn't matter. You get to make the choice versus one that says children are inherently a part of a divine plan for this world. Well, which one do you think is going to reproduce? So Eric Hoffman has pointed out that just this factor alone, the fertility advantage among conservative religionists, almost all guarantee that the globe is going to be radically conservative religionists by 2050. There's literally nothing you can do about it because we find too, demographically speaking, that children of conservative religious homes tend to retain that conservative religiosity into their adulthood. And the more conservative, the more children they're having. The dumbest double, for example, in population every 20 years, and that is not because of conversions. So they're doubling it every 20 years. They're slated to be 300 million, the actual size of the United States current population right now by the end of next century. So the religions are going to inherit the earth.

And when you start playing with the family, there are some real consequences. All right. You know what?

We don't have enough time for this, but I would love to see an article from you taking into account Barna's research indicating that this is the most biblically illiterate generation in our nation's history. And yet how, based on what you just talked about, that gets turned around. Right.

And folks, it will if people of faith will just be people of faith. That's you and me. We can do this. God's got our back.

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