Season 5 EP39 Best of "Calling All Men"

Welcome to Man Talk, a ministry sponsored by TAWCMM, talking and walking Christian men's ministry, where we're devoted to breaking down the walls of race and denomination, and to point men to their God-assigned roles. Now, here's your hosts, Will Hardy and Roy Jones Jr. Steve's out of Wisconsin does a fantastic job working with men, been a men's ministry, I think, for about 25 years, and this was a great conference. He was helping us kind of get off the ground, if you will, in some of the churches of one-on-one men's ministry, and ministry to men.

And that's the thing, I think, Roy, because men really don't understand how to minister to men, you know, when it comes to that. So, I mean, I was really, really, really, it was really beneficial for me. Yeah, everybody that attended the conference, Will, I think, felt the same way, and the feedback was good. And what's really unique or good is some of the things that he was referring to and instructing us on were some of the things you and I have been talking about for quite a long time. Small groups, the importance of one-on-one relationships, investing in other men, and it truly being about ministering to men. And I think that's the part of the problem in today's society, you know, most churches are still in that 1950s, 60s mindset of men's ministry. And it's, okay, we're going to have a breakfast once a month, and that's all we're going to do.

We're not going to dive into the issues. We're not going to hit head on, we're just going to sit and socialize, and really not get into the deep dive of what it means to be a Christ follower. And, you know, Roy, when you can start off with a really good mindset when it comes to ministering to a man and, you know, going out and doing some of the things that men like to do. But we have to be careful, too, that even though we're giving him the meat, we want to give him the potatoes as well. And so, you know, it comes, I think, at a price for both individuals who are doing that one-on-one ministry because it takes a sacrifice on both of them, you know, to have the desire to want to do it. But then you have to have that commitment to continue. Well, that's a great point, Will, because, you know, there's nothing goes without work, right? I mean, there's no gain without pain. And sometimes the pain could be sacrifice of time. And it requires an understanding spouse if you're married and a family that if you're investing in someone else outside of the family. And that's a tough challenge at times. We know that men are squeezed so much these days because of their schedules that you no longer decouple from work because you're always carrying a phone.

Most people that are most larger, most companies are carrying a phone and there's some sort of dialogue going on. So it's hard to figure out when am I going to find time to invest in Will Hardy? You know, here's my brother that needs me to invest in him. But I've got, you know, 50 or 60 hour workweek. Children need my attention.

My wife needs my attention. How do I make that work? So how would you how do you do that? And what I say is, is when people say I don't have time, they make time for other things. So what you need to do, if you really and I'm going to the extreme here to say, if you really need to manage your time on your phone or on your calendar and say, as I go through my day, where am I spending my time? What am I doing with it? And you'll be surprised because it's just like a lot of people, you know, they don't understand where the money is going in the house, especially if you have a husband and wife. It's like, where's the money? You know, they look in the bank account.

I don't see the money here. So did you take oh, well, I forgot to tell you that such and such and such. I took some money out, you know, and then you have this long drawn out explanation as to why I forgot to tell you.

But maybe in the mindset of that spouse, they were putting away that money, had it set aside for something else that they wanted to do together or take a trip or whatever the case may be. Right. So what if I'm mirror back to you real quick. So if you if you fail to plan, I prioritize what your day is going to look like and you plan to fail. So therefore, if you don't go and carve out the time ahead of time, so I'm going to spend this hour working with Will and then the day just gets absorbed. And then, like you said earlier, you do find time to do things that you really, quote unquote, want to do that you want to do, whether it's go fishing, playing golf, hunting, all those sorts of things. Or in these days, gaming, like we've talked about on some of our previous shows.

Right. There's a lot of time spent in front of a computer screen. And I mean, I'm hearing of men spending thousands of dollars on monitors and chairs and all the appropriate stuff to game properly. And so but what greater investment than to put it into another man. And that's what Steve was trying to tell us is the one on one relationship, folks, is where where it begins. It's that one to one ministry to men, not men's ministry, but ministry to men. So it's if you're listening, you're part of a men's group or you're not part of a men's group at a church and want to get one started. We're more than happy to share the resources with you.

But an online Steve Sonderman. In fact, one of the books that we used, I think it was mobilizing men for life changing one on one or mobilizing me for life changing one on one ministry. It was. And, you know, that's it's a really good book. And I look through it and it really has some very enlightened things that men as a one on one or in a small group can get together to talk about. Because as the group that we had, you know, on Saturday morning when we met, you know, we branched out in the small groups.

Right. And see, one of one of the things he was talking about was that men were looking for relevance. And so he he in our small group, you know, the questions were asked, what is true masculinity that that was really good? Because I think when when as men, we look at masculinity as macho ism rather than how a man should understand what his role is, that God has established him to perform, you know, in the community, in his household, in the church, you know, et cetera. So so so they I think we have a skewed view of masculinity. So what would you say to what would you say true masculinity is?

How did you define it? Well, for me, I would have to say, well, first, it's a man chasing God and following Christ. I mean, and truly, that would be the first thing. And he is submitting to Christ authority so that he models what it means to submit to authority.

And and that that's the that would be the first step. Second thing is a man that stands on the standards. You know, he's strong, but he's but he's he's quiet in terms of he lets God speak through him and not him speaking to God and say, well, this is what I'm going to do, Father, listen to what the Father is going to tell you to do. And the other piece is truly being the spiritual leader in the home and in the church, like we were talking about before. I think that's that's what I see is masculinity and also having that tender side. I mean that, you know, Christ wept and is there's nothing wrong with showing emotion. I think, you know, in the right moment in time and when God moves on your heart, you just never know how it's going to speak to the person beside of you.

So I think that those are some of the components. I think it's not violence. It's not the sexual conquers that, you know, or conquest that have happened through a lifetime, which society would have you to believe. And, you know, of course, society's dumbing down, if you will, manhood as a whole.

All the sitcoms, most shows are who's the who's the but pardon expression of the joke. Right. Is whom. It's the it's the man. Right. So that's that's the brunt of the joke.

Every time he's the downplay, he's the person that's made the object of humility, if you will. Would you agree with that? Well, yeah. And because, you know, when the world has a different objective and so their objective is to basically make man look like, you know, some stumbling buffoon idiot. Exactly.

You know, type of individual. And and I think, you know, it's like, OK, if you can't laugh at that, if you can't laugh at yourself, then you're really not a man. You know, all of these stigmas is what the society has put on man.

It has. And if you think about the amount of time that children are spending in front of the TV and computer and all that stuff like we've shared, that's the role they're seeing. Right. So if they if that's what they in their mind's eye is the grown man, it's OK to be treated like that. It's OK to act that way and not take responsibility because, you know, a lot of men are absent in their children's lives today.

And that's one of the things we're really encouraging men to to get off the sidelines and become more part of their lives and be more active. Right. Well, you know, and then the other another part of what we were talking about was how the world views success versus how success is defined and viewed scripturally. Right. You know, and so we in the world.

Look at success as how much money you have. What are you driving? What are you living in? What's your wife or your husband look like?

What do they do where your children go to school? All of these things are defined by society, you know, from the world's perspective. I couldn't help but think how short change Lisa got when you said how your husband looks. But, you know, when when we're talking about success, when it comes to a man, I think it's it's what type of seeds are you sowing to the individuals who you're coming in contact with? And then what type of legacy are you leaving your children and what will they remember you by?

Right. You know, we know we've talked about that. It's how will your story read when you're gone? And that's the very, very thing you're asking will is what what's it going to look like when you're gone? When these children have grown up, the people you've influenced, how are they going to be and what impact did you make?

And men, we've got to ask ourselves that. Am I making a difference in somebody's life? And is it a positive difference? You're making a difference.

It's just what type of difference are you making? And any other thing is that is, you know, when you do pass from this life and go to the life everlasting. Are you ready?

Not only are you ready, but when they start sifting through all of the things that you have hidden in the drawer and under the bed and in the shed and in bank accounts. What how would that define your life? Right. So there's there's that the hidden piece that we really don't want to talk about, because it's it's, you know, something that that's that's something that I have to harbor. That's that's my space. That's something that I have to deal with.

And you can't enter in. But again, it tells you what type of man you really are. It does. And, you know, as you were talking about, when they're sifting through all that stuff, is it going to withstand the fire of judgment? Mm hmm. Right. And are all these things so temporal that it's going to be gone? You know, it's going to be consumed in the judgment fire. And if it is, then then you need to say, OK, then am I really making a difference?

So then you just you change course. Mm hmm. It's OK, father, show me what it is and what I need to be doing and how I need to be doing it so I can make a difference. Well, you know, and we were talking about in our Christian Fellowship Group, and for those of you who don't know, you know, there are some companies out there that do allow you to come together and talk about Jesus, which is a good thing. It is a very good thing. Does wonders, I think, for the spiritual morale, you know, of an individual which most companies don't have. But, you know, I'm very thankful that the company has something like this, that the individuals can come together and worship and fellowship. Well, and that's part of what the fellowship piece is really key.

Right. And that's one of the things Steve shared in his training was the community of men, how important that community is, because men men desire fellowship. And as part of that, I guess that embedded warrior that God has made us naturally gravitate towards.

And I think that's why men enjoyed. We've spoken about that before, about team sports and the army and any branch of service. There's a camaraderie that's established. And the same could be true in your church, which is the great part. You know, I mean, just think about it.

You know, going out and helping other people, serving the needy, you know, helping during major storms. Think of the camaraderie gets built when you're out doing something you're not getting paid for. And, you know, Roy, but it's it's hard for men to get involved and get engaged with each other. I think that's the big hurdle. You know, it's like just start talking about something. And it's like, you know, is this man am I beginning to get through to him with the things that I'm saying, that type of thing? You know, but one of the things that we had talked about in the Christian Fellowship group here actually on this Wednesday was the purpose in life.

And this was one of the questions that Steve had on his during the conference that we had with him was my purpose. People are looking for purpose. What am I supposed to be doing? How how am I to get started?

What is it? And am I doing the right thing? You know, once I once I get into this body called Jesus Christ and working for his kingdom. How do I know that I'm doing what Jesus called me to do?

That's the age old question, right? I mean, most people will never find their purpose. I think if you look around the church, you've got 20 percent of the people doing 80 percent of the work within the church. This is true. Which means that there's a lot of people that haven't figured out where to plug in or how to plug in or if they could even make an impact. So I think that comes back to some of the complacency that's developed.

Will. So I think for me personally, it's it's just trying several different things that, you know, where your hearts and that your interests lie. Just you have to step like we talk about step in the natural, let God come along the supernatural. If you'll make that first step towards something, it may not be where he wants you. So he's going to gravitate and move you to where it is that he needs you to be, be a part of things and then start making an impact. You know, and and having having a desire to do something for the Lord, I think is is the first step, because if if once you get into the body of Christ. And it's good that you stated that, that you could just start doing something and God will direct you where exactly where you need to go based on the talent and or the spiritual gifts that he's given you. Exactly. You know, but if I don't have a desire to do anything and I'm constantly making up excuses on why I can't do this or that or the other thing. Oh, I'm not I don't have enough education to really do such and such or I'm not a gifted speaker to do such and such and such.

You know, we can find excuses for anything. So I think when it when it comes to you finding your purpose, you start engaging yourself to just simply go over there to a group of people who might be working or within your church and say, how can I help you? Will, you illustrated it well. Here's the key. The the attitude you choose, you choose to go do it. You may not feel like doing it, but it's an attitude that you've chosen. I'm choosing to go do this.

It's like we've talked about love. Love is an attitude, not an emotion. It's a choice. So you choose to go serve.

And from that, when you make that choice to go serve, even though you don't feel like it, then God's going to God's going to empower you and going to bless you beyond measure. Just remember, folks, it's not in a feeling. The feelings come and go. We all know that it's no different than any relationship. You know, God never leaves us. He's always with us. But we're going to have those values and we're going to have those peaks. But it's important that you know, because he loved you, gave his life for you. The least we can do is serve the kingdom.

The least we can do is serve the kingdom. And that comes in so many different ways. So that means you've got to start figuring out.

And the way you figure out is just like we talked about. Go try something out. It doesn't fit. Move on to the next shoe, quote unquote.

That doesn't fit. Move to the next thing. Eventually, you're going to land exactly where you're supposed to be, but it'll never happen as long as you're sitting inside the house or sitting on the pew and going home every Sunday afternoon. And we don't see you until next Sunday or never have a desire, you know, to want to do anything. You know, that goes back to the conscious choice. You choose it, even though the feeling may not be.

But we'll see. We'll see desire. Desire can be a Holy Spirit prompt. So the Holy Spirit prompting you. So it doesn't necessarily mean when I say desire, I'm talking about a feeling. What I'm saying is a desire can be prompt from the spiritual realm because all of our ideals, all of our movements, everything, everything we think about is given to us. We adopt it from the spiritual realm because it is a spiritual battle. We look with the five senses, we see this, that, and the other we feel, we taste, we touch, we see with the eyes, we hear with the ears. But beyond that realm is the spiritual realm. And that's what dictate the actions of man because we adopt those ideals from that realm. Yeah.

Nobody just comes up. I mean, it's just like a guy go out and say, oh, well, today I'm just going to get up and beat my wife. This is what I feel like doing. You know, that, that in and of itself is not a desire that is, that he has. It's a desire that's given to him that he adopts. So he adopts these ideals. He goes out and carry them out because it's a spiritual battle. We can't get away from the fact that everything you do, everything you say is prompt from the spiritual realm.

Ephesians 6, 12. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. All I'm saying from the attitude standpoint is that you may not have the desire in this moment because it's not been revealed to you yet. You may not have what it is exactly you're supposed to be doing. So to your point, if you don't start stepping and you don't start moving towards something, it's like if you're sitting back expecting, you're praying for all these things to happen in your life, but you never move out of your chair, it's not going to happen. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

It's not going to happen. I understand what you're saying. I get the fact that if you're following Christ, you're going to be prompted by the Holy Spirit. Things should be embedded into you that as you grow closer, then it will be more apparent. I think that's the key that we're probably not talking about is that you've got to be in relationship with Christ. You've got to be daily talking, daily walking with him so that this desire and prompting that you're talking about is more evident and more obvious to you as you're walking with him. If you're not at that maturity level in your relationship with him in terms of you're not seeking all guidance from him, you may miss the cue if you follow me with that. And then that's why it's so important to start stepping and, folks, it's never too late. I guess that's the other thing we want to leave with you about this conversation. It's never too late to start stepping.

Yes. And that's another question that we talked about in the Christian Fellowship group. And it's never, you should never say, I'm never going to do this for Christ because I am not gifted to do that. You should never say that because, and you don't really have to be that mature in Christ to figure out what it is he wants you to do.

You just start doing it. And see, look, when you first came to Christ, and I'm talking to that listener out there, when you first came to Jesus Christ, how on fire were you then versus how much you are on fire for him today? And I guarantee you when you look back and you see when you first started out in Jesus, you wanted to save the world. The majority of us did.

Oh yeah, no doubt. We wanted to save the world because it was like my life has been changed, my ideals is different, my walk is different, my talk is different, the people who I hang out with is different. And so all of these things now, it's like, wow. And so you want to go out and conquer the world. I know that's how I wanted to be. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.

Almost everybody responds that same way. But as we mature, we have a tendency to get in a safe place and take those things that God had given to us when we first started walking off in him. We take those things for granted. Yeah, and back to the pursuit, constant pursuit. You know, we get comfortable, we don't necessarily continue to chase.

I mean, that's obvious. We're seeing it right now in the church return, right? In the Barna studies, what they're saying about people not returning to church after the pandemic is over. We know there's a lot of complacency that resides in the church. And complacency is because people simply, they have gotten tired and not sought God for the necessary strength that they need. And they're trying to do it themselves instead of depending on the spirit. Yeah, and I think that started before the pandemic. And we want to give you some statistics real quick.

We're talking about the men from Steve Sonderman. Why are men leaving the church today? Well, 90% of boys raised in church will leave, by today's statistics will. 90% of men say they believe in God. 83% call themselves Christian. How many percent actually attend? 33% are attending church. So what does that tell you? They're sitting on sidelines and they're complacent. And then the other question is, is really how many are taking what they've been taught and taking it outside the church?

Yeah, and I'll go one step further. How many were taught properly? Well, yeah, that's another question. Based on things we've seen, a lot have not been taught properly. Few churches can establish or maintain a vibrant ministry to men. Sunday services, and we've talked about this one back then on the numbers, 61% women, 39% men, 13 million more women than men in the US. So men today are wounded and they're addicted and we've talked about that and they're friendless.

So the other thing, folks, before we leave is that men are confused over masculinity, which we all opened up with. 90% of all major crimes are committed by men. 100% of most violent, well, it's not 100%, he's got 100% here but I'm not quite sure, but the majority of rapes are committed by men. 95% of all burglaries are committed by men. And 91% of all abuses in the family comes from men. And 94% of all drunk drivers are men. 15 male prisoners to every one female. Men, we've got a lot of work that needs to be done with our brothers out there. So we thank you for joining us. We'll see you back next week.

Will, you want to take them out and quick plan? You know, and if you don't know Jesus Christ, just confess that you are a sinner, believe.