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May 15, 2019 5:21 am
One member is examining the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism out thanks to Adams Road band for that musical introduction welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson.
My colleague at MRM in April 2019. The LDS church reversed itself in a position regarding the children of those in same-sex households and the way the mandate came down on November 13, 2015 that there was going to be a new provision added to the church handbook that affirmed that adults who choose to enter into same gender marriage or similar relationship commit sin that warrants it's a church disciplinary counsel.
Not only that it was mandated that if they had children in that relationship.
Those children cannot be baptized, and they could not be blessed. This caused a huge uproar among many Latter Day Saints and as we were talking about yesterday. Eric mentioned how writers said that about 1500 people resign their membership. As a result of that policy has its being called now the point we were trying to raise is when you have someone like Russell and Nelson say in January 2016 that that policy is it's understood really came about by way of revelation or inspiration of the Lord.
It makes you wonder will does the God of the Bible really reversed himself after only 3 1/2 years we would say no that doesn't make sense. It shouldn't even make sense to a Latter Day Saints. They believe the book of Mormon is whether you want to call it a policy or revelation.
It certainly is a decree because it was a statement that came out and it had full force of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints behind it in the book of Mormon does teach in Alma 41 eight that the decrees of the Lord are on alterable but this one was altered in April 2019 and now those provisions have been completely reversed and same-sex marriage is not going to be looked upon in the Mormon Church's apostate behavior, and children can be baptized if they live in a household where same-sex marriage is taken place so Greg Trimble who is a Mormon blogger writes about this and he's urging right after this happens, I know this is a little dated now the dust is somewhat settled and we can now look back and reevaluate a lot of the things that we've read and heard. But Trimble writes this piece titled take it easy on Pres. Nelson and he's lamenting the fact that after this recent reversal that he saw as being good news that's the phrase he uses he was lamenting the fact that there was a slew of negativity towards the prophet and the apostles, and he argues, can people not see that Pres. Nelson and the apostles are trying their hardest to do what's right, which as I mentioned yesterday caused me to ask the question, are you implying Mr. Trimble that what they did in 2015 was wrong. It seems to make sense to me that it had to of been wrong before.
In order for the reversal to be considered right so we been going through some of the statements that Greg Trimble makes and the reason I wanted to do this is because I think Mr. Trimble represents a lot of the thinking among all, perhaps especially younger people in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but he makes some statements that I think need to be examined and so that's why were going through his piece today we want to start with this paragraph that begins the fact that the first presidency and the apostles were willing to make the change so quickly on this policy shows to me. Trimble says a great deal of humility, especially Pres. Nelson.
He could have just left it alone. A little longer and let the next president of the church handle it but he confronted the issue and is trying to make things right. There he goes again with the word right so if he's making things right. In April 2019 did the leadership make it wrong. In November 2015 and remember again what we talked about earlier that leadership didn't make it wrong. It was God's revelation to the leadership by God.
That's what the leaders have said Russell M. Nelson says that in 2016. So you can't lay all the blame on the leaders for that 2015 decision you have to say God is culpable exactly and you're going back to the speech that Russell and Nelson game on January 10, 2016 at Brigham Young University Hawaii. It was titled, becoming true, millennial's, I would encourage you folks to look it up. All you have to do is Google becoming true, millennial's Russell M. Nelson, maybe even through BYU and the search and I'm sure this talk will come up.
Look for the two paragraphs were begins the first presidency and the quorum of the 12 apostles counsel together and share all the Lord has directed us to understand and to feel individually and collectively, and then it goes on to talk about the prophetic process, how it was followed in 2012 with the change in the minimum age for missionaries and he goes on to say and again with the recent addition to the churches handbook consequent to the legislation of same-sex marriage. In some countries this is what is referring to is referring to the first presidency statement that was found on LDS.org and it was posted November 13, 2015 and as we stated, that was reversed in April 2019. This is the context of what Greg Trimble is writing about in this piece. Then he goes on in the next paragraph to refer to what Nelson claimed was a revelation as being what a policy he writes I wouldn't like any policy banning any children of any family dynamic from being baptized, but I also know that there are lots of things that I don't know. And if I don't have all the facts, then how can I judge's decision is a folly of a man or a temporary policy from God see that phrase policy uses it twice and that paragraph I wouldn't like any policy banning any children. Now this is what the Mormon church is calling it the calling of the policy as if a policy is just like a corporate decision that can be reversed at any old time because it's really just the decision of men, but will wait a minute, it's not the decision of man. According to Russell and Nelson statement in 2016. It was a revelation. It was inspired of the Lord to Thomas S.
Monson, who was the president at that time, and Nelson said everyone was in agreement with what they felt was God's instruction to Thomas S.
Monson, and it would have to be Bill because if Nelson and the other leaders are just talking off the top of their head and going with whatever they wanted and they didn't care what God thought. Then the membership is not going to accept that.
So, certainly, everything they do is supposed to have been brought through the process of prayer through what God has instructed them to do. These are supposed to be leaders of God and so I think it's it's a requirement that God is behind anything that they are supposed to be doing but Trimble says something in this paragraph he says how can I judge the decision as a folly of a man or a temporary policy from God. Well, I would think if you were going by the Bible. You could easily make a judgment on that kind of a decision because God doesn't need to change his mind and 3 1/2 years, the God of the Bible is described as omniscient. He's all knowing he doesn't need new information he doesn't wait for the culture to tell him how to move, but apparently the God of Mormonism does. One thing that we notice about the 2015 and the 2019 announcements of these policies is that we don't see Scripture, especially the Bible, but we don't see anywhere where they're pointing to any of the four scriptures. The standard works in the LDS church to say, look, there's precedent for not allowing children of homosexual parents to be blessed or baptized. Look at this instance or look at that instance they don't have that this is basically as we've said before, a pragmatic decision not based on anything that the standard works have for us. And Trimble was basically going to take the position of look, I'm not privy to a lot of information that he assumes I guess that the leadership has been so this is why he says in the We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We don't know what situations might have arisen that might have caused the policies of the past.
We don't know what information they have.
When these decisions are being made.
We don't know if it was a revelation quote unquote regarding the policy or just an honest mistake and honestly, if someone believes in the God of the New Testament, then you don't have to look far to see policy reversals that took place in a very short amount of time. Christ himself change the policy as to which people the gospel should be preached to within about a two year time span, and it confuse the heck out of Peter and I'm sure many others. First of all, I don't think what God did in the book of acts when it came to Peter's vision of the unclean animals and the sheep and the fact that God was going to take the gospel to the Gentile people was a policy I don't think it would be called a policy at least certainly not the way the Mormons are trying to define that work now as far as the gospel being open to all that was something that was in the Old Testament to happen at some point in time even when John writes about. For God so loved the world what is he saying there that this salvation and this love of God, the grace of God was certainly going to go beyond the borders of Israel to go the to the entire world. This idea of the gospel being taken to the Gentiles wasn't really something that all of a sudden sprung up in the New Testament it was hinted at clear back in the Old Testament are so this wasn't this policy change that Trimble was trying to make reference to that happen within a very short amount of time I would seriously question his analogy on that. But another thing I would like the question. He says we don't know what information they have. When these decisions are being made.
We don't know if it was a quote unquote revelation regarding the policy or just an honest mistake. Man, that honest mistake is a killer because if they did make an honest mistake.
These are good man who just didn't see what God really intended, then you have to ask the question what else are honest mistakes in the LDS church.
There could be a lot of things are telling us that they might honestly believe, but are not true was Brigham Young's teaching that Adam was God and the only guy with whom we have to do in honest mistake me Mormons don't believe that today even though Brigham Young in that very sermon that he gave in April 1852 in general conference. By the way he calls it a doctrine and yet were told in today's modern Mormon church that doctrine can't be changed. I guess if I have my tongue planted firmly in cheek I could say maybe they can't be changed, but they can be ignored because that's basically what the church is done. Although Spencer Kimball did call the Adam God theory as he referred to it as being a false doctrine.
It seems that the leadership of the church can bestow upon its membership information that is not supposed to truly be believed as gospel truth and only as around for a temporary amount of time such as this policy that was given in 2015 and then reversed in 2019. I agree with you Eric. I would think that one great Trimble says that this could possibly have been an honest mistake. Those words would be screaming at me. I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn't really make it any better that the mistake was done honestly, it's still a mistake right but were going to continue looking at what Mr. Trimble has to say about this in tomorrow's show. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is