REShow: Joe Vardon - Hour 1 (6-9-2023)

This is the Rich Eisen Show with guest host Mike Hill.

I don't understand the devaluation of the running back position. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. The Vikings in my mind are not a better team the minute they release Dalvin Cook. And in the NFC North, guess who's up? Hey Detroit Lions. Today's guests, senior writer for The Athletic, Joe Vardon, author T.J. Newman, Fox Sports NVA analyst Jim Jackson, actor and comedian Guy Torrey. And now sitting in for Rich, it's Mike Hill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Guess who's back on the Rich Eisen Show? It's been a long time. Did you miss me? Did you miss me?

What's up y'all? Mike Hill hanging out for the Rich Eisen Show on the Rich Eisen Radio Network. I'm sitting in for the Rich Eisen Show desk right here furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Grainger has the right product for you.

Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by. I got through my first read, man. I actually can still read. What's up y'all? You did it, baby. It's been a while, brother. Good to see you. It's good to see you, Brock.

Good to see you. Been a while. Bro, I thought, man, I thought I'd been put on exile. Like I was doing the show consistently for a minute here and then all of a sudden like I got put on. Did I say something bad about Rich on the show? Exile Island.

It's like Survivor. I see my man Jason over there. I hear he's a millionaire now. You're making all kind of money.

Like he was he was putting on microphones on me on Fox Sports just like a couple of years ago. And now he's driving a Maserati, keeping his windows down, going through car washes. It was a rough morning. What were you what were you drinking? What were you doing?

I mean, it's legal in L.A., so I guess we could talk about it if you want to. How did you leave it for those who don't know? Obviously, you don't know at home. He left his car window down as he was going through a car wash. How does that happen? You know, I was answering some emails and not focused, and then I felt some water on my neck from there. Wow. It felt water on your neck. So what kind of damage have you done to your Maserati, man? What's that? What kind of damage have you done to your Maserati?

Geez. You know, T.J.'s had some fun with it. T.J., he meant like water damage. No water damage. Like to the car. What kind of damage you talking about? You hanging out with Zion?

I'm not talking about that kind of damage. Wait a minute. Run away. Early in the morning. What's going on, T.J.? Michael, man, it's a pleasure to meet you, bro. It is a pleasure. You and I. Man, it is.

It is. I love you. I know you. You know, you know, I didn't know you, but I felt like I know you. But I think, you know, in the first couple of minutes we met, we we bonded. We bonded. Is it is it the you know, what we have in common?

Obviously, what we're tall. Yeah, we both got the remarkable sneaker games. And that's man, you do. I like you. Those are those the J's on right.

You have the J's every day. I love it, man. I love it. I'm happy to be here, guys. Good to see you, man. I'm so happy to be here, man. It's just been a pleasure sitting in for Rich Ozzie, man.

One of the best in the game. Mike Hill, for those who don't know me, I've been on Fox Sports for the last 10 years, was at ESPN with Rich back in the day, a long time ago. Did a little reality television. I don't know if you guys knew about that. I mean, I heard you start over here.

I was on there for three years. Didn't last that long. Neither did the marriage, but I'm I'm still here.

Still standing. NBA Finals, man. Game four tonight.

First of all, what do you guys think so far through three games? I mean, like the Denver Nuggets, a lot of people weren't excited to see the Nuggets. If you didn't know anything about the Nuggets, you weren't excited. Like, raise your hand if you were excited to see the Denver Nuggets in the NBA Finals before the series began. Come on, man. No, no, no, nobody.

Nobody was excited. But now after three games and from what you've seen, has that opinion changed a little bit? I do really like watching them play because I like the Joker. I think he's really exciting. We're seeing something that we've never seen before. Obviously, he had a 30 and 20 triple double last game.

Yes. Teammates with 30 point triple doubles we've never seen before in NBA history. And you could make a case, three straight MVPs, he should have never done, which would have been first since Larry Bird in the 80s. We're seeing an all time player here, which, you know, you can't really say that that often. I mean, Giannis, LeBron, like those are kind of your all time guys.

If we just kind of play it all out. And I think Joker, when it's all said and done, will be considered one of the greats, which we'll talk about later on. Yep. I think you already got to consider one of the greats. I mean, like when you talk about greatest of all time, that's going to be the beta boy out there.

Yeah. But I will get into that a little bit later about Nikola Jokic. I do think he is the best skilled center that this game has ever seen. The best skilled big man that this game has ever seen. But there is one thing and I'm a teaser right now. There is one thing that's holding him back from being a household name.

And I'll get into that a little bit later. But I am so happy that the Denver Nuggets actually made it into the NBA finals. And I admit, when they made it to the NBA finals, when they beat the Lakers, I was looking at the Lakers and I think maybe the Miami Heat. That would have been a great matchup. Lakers, Boston Celtics.

That would have been a phenomenal NBA finals. I was like, man, I was not excited for the Miami Heat and the Denver Nuggets in the NBA finals. But I got to say, after three games, I'm intrigued.

I'm intrigued. And mainly not just because I think Miami's going to bounce back tonight, but mainly because of what you're talking about. And let's not forget what Jamal Murray's doing.

Yeah. I mean, like you just mentioned, two players never been done before. NBA history, history, 30 point triple doubles. And they do it in game three of the NBA finals. And Nicole Jokic, 30 and 20 in the NBA, 10 triple doubles.

That's stupid already this season. Nicole Jokic has been phenomenal. He's been incredible.

He's been everything is advertised. Now, do I believe that he should have been MVP this year? No, because I still feel like the MVP obviously is a regular season award. Joel Embiid did an outstanding job this year for the Philadelphia 76ers. And he did it on both ends of the basketball court.

That was my point. And that's my whole thing. It's like, you know what?

You have to do it for me. You have to do it on both ends of the basketball court. But from what I've seen and I got an appreciation for Nicole Jokic.

I have a newfound appreciation for Nicole Jokic. I like this game before seeing it in spots when he will play. Obviously, I'm a Knicks fan. We played the Knicks or we played the Lakers. We played the Clippers or whatnot.

One of the local teams here. I will see him in spots. I never saw him consistently. So I never gained that true, real appreciation for what he brings to the table, man. There is nothing that this man can't do on the offensive end of the basketball court.

Name one weakness. How do you stop him? I wish I could get like, I wish I could sit some of the greatest defensive centers out with Bill Russell, bring him, Bill Russell, Akeem Olajuwon. I would say like my court, how do you stop him?

What are you doing? What are you taking away from him? And if you take that away, he's going to beat you some other way. And what's so great about him is if you stop him from shooting, I think he's more dangerous as a facilitator. And that's what Miami was able to do in game two.

They made him more of a score, less of a facilitator. He only had four assists, I believe, in that game. And they won that basketball game. And that's what they got to try and do again tonight in game four.

But one thing I do want to talk about, what I don't understand, and I'll talk more about Nicole Jokic in a minute. What I don't understand, I heard something after game two from Michael Malone. And then I heard the same sentiment from Jimmy Butler after game three.

Effort, energy. Fellas, are we talking about this in the NBA Finals? We're talking about the NBA Finals. We're talking about a seven game series to win the championship. And we should not be talking about effort or energy in the NBA Finals. How in the hell do you lack energy in the NBA Finals when you haven't won anything? Now, if the Golden State Warriors had come back and played in the NBA Finals this year, oh, you know what?

We've been here before. Those game twos kind of get down, kind of worn down or whatever. If LeBron James had been in the NBA Finals again, man, like he has the excuse, he's been there.

I'm looking, Denver Nuggets, first time they've ever been to the NBA Finals. How do you lack effort in game two at home after you won game one? And if you're the Miami Heat, how do you lack energy or effort when you just stole home court advantage at the game two in Miami? How does that happen?

Home game. And what I don't understand is because, you know, and Jimmy Butler's the one that's saying and Jimmy Butler was the main one that was lacking it. I was so shocked by that. And I'm a Jimmy Butler fan.

I'm a Stan. I love this man. I like, I will take 12 Jimmy Butler's on my team and then three just, you know, just sitting by, just waiting for him to be called up.

The G League team. There is nobody like Jimmy Butler and like that heart, that effort. And Brock, when we was talking about this, man, like the type of players that I like, I love skill. Don't get me wrong.

That's why I love Nikola Jokic. But heart, man, desire, soul, passion. I want to not only beat you. I want to rip your heart out.

And I want to feed it to my grandma. You know, that type of, that's that, that, that I want that killer instinct. And when you're in the NBA finals and you've never won a championship outside of Kevin Love, I'm like, oh, I'm trying to think nobody. It's Pat Riley. It's Pat Riley and Kevin Love and Spoe. That's it.

Yeah, that's it. Did Zoe win a title? Yeah, Zoe won a title. He won a title with Shaq. Okay. He was on that.

He was on the air. He won the title with Shaq and Gary Payton, all those guys and Dwayne Wade. But still, like, that's the organization.

I'm not talking about the organization. Miami Heat obviously have been there. I mean, they went to the finals a couple of years ago, but come on, dude. What I want to see out of the heat tonight is like, not only the energy, the effort, I actually want to see them come out there and dominate tonight.

I want to see them go out there and take their will. Now, we've heard Jimmy Butler basically say, hey, you know, we're going to go out there and he kind of half heartedly guaranteed. Oh, wait, he did that in game six. Wasn't quite, wasn't quite Patrick Ewing or Marc Messier. Wasn't quite the guarantees. But you still want to hear that out of your leader, right? Of course. We're going to be okay. We're going to be fine.

And the thing is, he's saying it can't happen when it comes to the energy level, but it can't happen with him. You guys think Jimmy Butler's hurt? You think he's hurt?

He's kind of hobbling around a little bit, it looks like. What game was that against the Knicks when he rolled his ankle pretty bad? I think that was that was either game two or three, maybe. It was kind of early.

It was early on. It seems like he hasn't been the same guy since then that he was early in the Knicks series. Obviously, he took over and basically won the Milwaukee series almost single-handedly. He hasn't been that same guy against Boston.

He didn't have that quintessential game. You know, Boston kind of shot themselves in the foot that whole series going down, oh, three. And then in game seven, Tatum gets injured. But this series actually has kind of played into Miami's hands. If you look at the scoring and the totals of the game, game three, it was mid-twenties in the first quarter. It was, you know, Denver barely scored 100 in every game this series. It's playing right the way Miami needs it to. Low scoring, tough, defensive, a shot here or there kind of shifts momentum. And I got to say, they have a great chance. I did not think this would be a close finals. I thought it might be a sweep, gentleman sweep. That's the way Denver was playing. Their offense was clicking on all cylinders. Where is Michael Porter Jr.?

Oh my gosh. This dude is like, he has been MIA milk carton in this series. He might get benched. I mean, he wasn't playing in crunch time in game three. Miami can make some shots. If Caleb Martin is the Caleb Martin in the Boston series, Miami's going to even this up. And we got ourselves a best of three going back to Denver. Oh, I really believe they're going to win tonight.

I thought they were going to win game three. I will admit that. I will admit when I'm wrong. I'm not one of those people that come on television that's like, hey, they make excuses for the predictions that go wrong.

You know what I mean? Or just forget that you ever said it. I forget you ever said it.

I admit when I was wrong. It was game one, by the way, against the Knicks when Jimmy Butler got hurt. And don't bring that up, man. I'm still going through therapy. I needed you to win that series. I'm still going through therapy. I'm a Knicks fan. And that still hurt my heart.

The fact that they did not attack Jimmy Butler in that game. Anyway, I'm moving on. Talk to my therapist next week, next Friday. I believe in therapy.

I really believe. But we have not seen that playoff Jimmy since then. I think the ankle is bothering him.

The explosion is not there. Yes, Denver has size. So they're putting Aaron Gordon on them. Maybe you can't shoot over guys, but what about the explosiveness and the lateral movement to get around people and to facilitate and be the Jimmy Butler that we've seen in the playoffs, the Jimmy Butler we saw against the Milwaukee Bucks and part of the series against the New York Knicks. But like you mentioned, I think Miami got Denver right where they want them. Miami seems like they are the type of team that like they they play better when they're down. They play better when they're behind. And with the exception of one quarter, basically in game three, they played they kind of outplayed them in the fourth quarter. They have been dominant in the fourth quarter against Denver in this series. So I really believe if they just give that sustained effort for a full four quarters tonight, get something off the bench.

They need something from the others. They need to knock down some of these buddies in the paint. I mean, once again, Denver has the advantage when it comes to the height, but you have got to knock down these easy shots. Bam Adebayo is missing some easy shots that he normally makes.

I don't know if he's rushing. I don't know if he's slightly intimidated by the presence of your kitchen, the middle or others, but they're missing shots that they need to knock down. They're missing shots that they normally would make. They made all the shots against the Knicks. How come you can't do that in the NBA finals? They did it in the first three games against Boston. You know, this could be the pressure.

Could be a lot of different factors. But I really truly believe that Spoe, who I believe is the most underrated great coach maybe this game has ever seen. The most underrated great, I mean, great coach. Future Hall of Fame coach that this game has ever seen.

And he still doesn't get credit because he's still in the shadows of Pat Riley, who still runs the, you know, all that. So the thing is, Miami, they'll be all right. They'll be fine. They'll be good.

I think they'll win game four. But once again, I want to see that effort. We're going to have, talk about this more with Joe Vardon of The Athletic.

Get the feel of what's going on down there. Joe actually wrote something about Tyler Herro. And remember, you know, Miami's been playing without Tyler Herro. He's not playing. He's not clear yet. Spoe said he's not ready to go. He hasn't been clear yet.

He's been practicing with the team, but he's not clear yet. I mean, that's a 20 point game score for the Miami Heat. And they need scoring right now.

They need something to open things up a little bit. So we're going to talk about him. But he actually wrote something yesterday where he said that even though he's not available, maybe they should activate him.

I want to get into that a little bit. Once again, we're going to talk to Jim Jackson coming up in hour number three as well. My man, Jim Jackson, who did a great job with TNT covering the Heat. He was a part of the Heat and Boston Celtics on TNT.

He's also over with me over at Fox Sports on the college basketball side. And later on the show, Guy Torrey, comedian Guy Torrey. You know, you're familiar with Guy Torrey there, Brockman?

I remember I just remember him when he came in with you a few years ago when you were last year. So that's that's kind of my only exposure to Guy. Yeah, no, guys.

Guys are really funny, dude. We got a couple of things going on here. Got a really good show that's out right now. Amazon. It's a documentary talking about black comedians in the 90s back in the day. So that's coming up a little bit late. Fat Tuesdays.

Looking forward to that as well. So we got a lot to get into here. Duke is not a joke. And I ain't Guy Torrey as Black Rob once said. I never heard that verse until you said that. I didn't know Guy Torrey had been. You've got to bring that up when he's here.

Will do. I don't even know. Rest in peace, Black Rob. Black Rob. We are.

Rest in peace, Black Rob. So we go to break now. We go to break. Let's go to break. Let's go to break. We go. We're going to go to break. Go to break. Joe Vardon, the athletic senior NBA writer coming up next.

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And of course, you're going to use traditional parts to get there. Are you going to sue the Rolling Stones for making a samba out of sympathy for the devil? Are you going to sue Elvis Presley for writing Bart Zunova?

It's like saying you're not allowed to use a pencil to create a piece of art. Rolling Stone Music Now, wherever you listen. Good to see you, Shaquille O'Neal.

How are you, sir? Before we get started. Yes.

If I take this home, will I get arrested? The Vince Lombardi Trophy? Is this the real one? That's the real one. That's a real Vince Lombardi Trophy.

I don't know if that's the one that's going to be given to the Rams or the Patriots this weekend, but that is a real. You want to lift it? Well, if I lift it, I want to take it home. Well, then I think we're at a crossroads here.

Actually, we're not at a crossroads. Let me tell you why. Okay, sure. I'm not a lawyer, but I watch a lot of law shows. Okay. I got about 50 witnesses that say me hit my head on your set. So if you just give me this, I'll let bygone be bygone. So it's a liability issue for me that turns into an even worse liability issue.

I don't want to have to call it the Shaq Eisen Show. No, I know that. I know that. Just give me this and I'll put it next to mine. This is beautiful. I'm doing the math in my head as to how much you'd be suing me for personal liability as to how much this trophy costs, which I've been told is around $22,000. Well, I'll be suing you for $23,000. You want to lift it? No, I don't want to touch it. Okay, you sure you don't want to touch that? Bad luck.

Bad luck for you? No, to touch the trophy when you don't earn it. I like that. Yeah, my father used to always- Are you serious? He always used to, because you know like when you're a kid, you get the trophy from the local trophy shop? Sure.

You'd be like, if you listen to me, guys, you get this, you want to touch it, don't touch it. It's bad luck. You got to earn it. Right.

So that's why like, you know how like in the NBA when you win the Eastern Conference or Western Conference, they give you those little trophies? I never touched it. Never? I never touched it and I never celebrated it. I remember Phil did that too, right? Yeah.

Like when you guys won the Western Conference finals of one of the many times you did. Yeah, I never touched it. I never looked at it. I never celebrated it.

This is beautiful though. It's a beautiful trophy. Yeah. Back on the Rich Izen Show, Mike Hill filling in for the great Rich Izen today. On the TV side, it was this show on Shaquille O'Neal talking about the Lombardi Trophy, the diesel, the diesel. And Rich was going to give him some gloves to pick up the Lombardi Trophy. That wasn't the word. Can you imagine Shaq trying to put on some regular gloves? No. Yeah. Like T-O-J.

You must have quit. Shaq Diesel, extricate race, the most dominant player of all time. Uh, I will talk about how once again Nicole Jokic is the best skill center that the NBA has ever seen and will go down as one of the top five centers of all time, but will not be memorable. He won't be remembered 30 years from now.

He won't. I'll talk about that coming up a little bit later on in the show. Uh, best dad ever. Can I keep this here? Sure. It is Father's Day that's coming up.

Yeah, next one. And I need my kids to know that I expect something on Father's Day this year. Not just a phone call. I got two girls and it's like, you know, how is it that they call me for money to buy me a gift? Like, Daddy, we want to get you a gift. Can you loan me some money? Yeah, that's, you know, like seriously, they loan me something like, yeah, I want to get you something special for Father's Day. But, you know, I just, you know, the paycheck ain't come in the way I want to.

The way my bank account is set up. Yeah, exactly. And it's never what I give them.

But you know what? The love is there. And then my daughter's graduated from UCLA on that day, on Father's Day. Okay.

Yeah. So she graduates on that Friday. And then, uh, this Sunday, she has another, uh, graduate. She got like three graduations. She got like the big graduation. She got the school graduation.

Then she got a black graduation. I'm like, pick one I'm coming to. I think I'm gonna go to, uh, the big graduation.

All right. Uh, NBA finals game for tonight. Uh, obviously the series, uh, 2-1 Denver reclaiming home court advantage after taking game number three by 15 points.

Joe Barton of the athletic joins us right now. He's covering the series down there in Miami. Joe, what are you doing your day off, uh, down in Miami to keep yourself up?

Well, let's see. I mean, the weather down here has not been great. Um, you know, you've got the South Florida shower, sure, but, uh, it's been, it's, it's been pretty tough. Like it's been thunderstorms and whatnot. So, you know, I mean, with all this flying back and forth and playoffs and going on, been going on for two months, um, you know, just try to take a little nap maybe and then recharge for, you know, you might run into a nightclub or two on South Beach.

You might not saying you would for sure. Um, you know, we, we find things to do in the, in our spare time. Ooh, Hey, live, look at this. I like that. Hey, you know what? The clubs are inside, bro. Unless you like, like Jason and open the windows when the rain is coming away. Hey, let's talk about the series, man.

Uh, I read your article yesterday. You call him yesterday, uh, in athletics talking about a title hero, not being available for game four. I think they need them obviously 20 point game was a score, but he's, they got into the NBA finals without him.

You mentioned that it might be good to activate them anyway. Why do you feel that way? Yeah, because especially, I mean, the heat with the two players we're talking about here and gave Vincent and Kyle Lowry, they both are a little susceptible to ankle injury. And, um, in this situation, you know, Tyler would be a perfect, um, you know, I guess insurance policy in, in case something like that happens. And, you know, Kyle turned his ankle at the end of game three.

He's okay, but it's that close. And that would be a scenario where you could find some minutes for Tyler hero. Um, and you can do it if he, if he's wearing a bucket hat and, and hanging out on the bench, you know, it's not on the act of it. So I think they should do it.

Um, it's otherwise it's hard. It's really hard to reincorporate him into a rotation for the series when, you know, he was their starter and their second leading scorer, you know, for most of the year. And, and now they're playing in a totally different way than they play with him. And, uh, I'm not sure where his minutes come from, but like I said, one injury at the wrong time to either those two guards and all of a sudden you really need it. But to that point, uh, you just mentioned, they've gotten this far without them and they're playing a totally different style right now. Would it do more harm than good to bring him back into the fold if he were even healthy, uh, because of the way they're playing and the pace they're playing at right now, and you don't know what you're going to get out of Tyler here all right now? Well, that's right.

That's definitely right. You don't know. Um, it's, it's hard to take six weeks off or whatever it's been. And then you come back and you're in the middle of an NBA finals.

That is way different than coming back for a regular season game in February. Um, this, this, the discussion about, are they better without him? I, you know, you want to be fair to everybody involved, but the, but the truth is they are a better defensive team, um, when he's not on the court. And that is largely how they've gotten here. Um, and, and it's just the flow, the way they've been playing, the way they went from the eight seat to the best team in the East. I mean, that's, that's what happened. And so it's hard to change, to go away from how they did that. And, um, you know, I, I don't think they would, I, and, and I don't, I don't know that they want to, but, you know, you still feel bad for a guy like Tyler and they, he gave him a ton of money.

Um, you want as much out of him as you can, but that's just not, that's not the situation. And defense is exactly what they need right now to try and stop down at that, stop that, uh, dynamic dual of, uh, Jamal Murray. And of course, uh, Nicola Jokic right now, a 30 point triple doubles out of both of them, uh, in the last game, never been seen in any NBA game in history of the game. Uh, what are we witnessing right now? You're seeing it up close and personal.

What are we witnessing right now? Well, on the lighter side, um, you know, the, the Jokic 30, 20, 10 triple double, which we've never seen in the finals game. He'd actually done that three times in these playoffs, I think, but, but we've never seen that in the finals game and you're watching it in real time. Like, wow, this is insane.

This is utterly dominant performance. And then, you know, they take him out and the heater, the nuggets are up 15 and Jamal is still out there and up, there's another bucket up. There's a foul shot.

Uh, Oh geez. Now he's over 30 points. And then with nine seconds left, they're up 15. He gets the last rebound at the game. All of a sudden now he has a triple double and it's like, Oh, so now this is literally something that has never happened in any game ever. And you didn't really see it coming because some of the, some of the rebounds and a couple of the points were, you know, were at the end of, of, um, like I almost garbage time, but it to, to the broader point, like you have these two guys who are playing in their first final, they're playing together and they are performing better than most people ever have in their, um, in their first three finals game. And, you know, I've made this comparison earlier in the series that the heat, the way they talk about having to defend the nuggets is the, I'm telling you is the way the calves used to talk about defending the warriors.

Now I know it's different. I know the personnel is different, but when you talk about the amount of pressure that the nuggets put on you, uh, it is very similar to what the calves used to say. Like there's just, it's so complex and it's so difficult to figure out how to just even get in, in Jokic's way.

And that's what the heater trying to do here. Senior NBA writer for the athletic Joe Varden, joining us here on the rich eyes and show my kill filled in for rich today. Uh, it seems like it's going to come down to the role players, uh, for both of these scenes, for the heat and the nuggets, obviously, uh, bam.

And, uh, Jimmy going to get dares. Uh, and of course we talk about Murray and Jokic. Uh, is there a concern from both sides when it comes to Michael Porter, Jr., uh, for Denver and anybody stepping up for the Miami heat for both sides to get the others more involved in these, uh, in the basketball game?

No, I don't think so. I would, um, I know what you mean with Michael Porter Jr. After a really nice game one, he has not been good. Um, he has not been good in games two or three. And then you think you talk about Aaron Gordon and it's, he was awesome at the beginning of game one and then not much of an impact in two and a little better in three. But, but those, the, the, the nuggets have enough and then you have Jokic and Murray who are so dominant, um, that they, they can be the drivers.

When, when I think about the heat, um, there's a couple of points I want to make. One, Jimmy has not played well yet in the series. He was the leading scorer in game three, but he was 11 of 24 shooting. And that was about 20 minutes after saying, well, I'm not a buying shooter and I'm not a score.

And he kind of went out and, uh, and tried to take control and couldn't. So they need him to be the playoff Jimmy that we know. Um, but the other point I want to make is we talk and talk and talk about the heat and they have undrafted players.

And so this is all a surprise and role-play this and role-play that. I, I think we underestimate or undervalue the actual talent on that team. Like Gabe Vincent is talented.

He's a legitimate NBA player, max truth is the same thing. You know, he's a little bit streaky fine, but he's a two way player and, and, uh, and, and can be a 40% three-point shooter, you know, and, and, um, you know, obviously Kyle Lowry is a former champion and a former all-star just on down the line. So, so I, I like both teams. I like the series, you know, we, we say that the nuggets are favored because they they've been better all year and they have the best player, but, you know, I, I mean, I don't think this is a series where one team says, Eureka, we figured the other side out. I think it's more like both teams played their style, um, and, and hope that they can sort of will themselves through the series.

Yeah. Well, Vincent has got to stay out of foul trouble and, uh, Shrews has got to get off to a better start. Like he did in game two and maybe the Miami, uh, even the season, uh, series up at two a piece. You talked about Jimmy, you said, can't, uh, that we talked about that in the first segment. Uh, he hasn't been playoff Jimmy, uh, since he rolled his ankle in game one against the, uh, New York Nixon S series. Uh, is there a concern there when it comes to the injury, it w what's going on in your opinion or for what you're hearing about Jimmy Butler, not being playoff Jimmy, the player we're used to seeing?

Well, that's a good point. And, and I, if I'm being honest, um, I sometimes forget about the ankle injury from game one, just cause it was so long ago. He didn't miss. I don't, I don't think he missed time. I can't remember if he missed game two or not, but, but, um, he's been all hands on deck since and, and, uh, and what you, the discussion has been that he doesn't seem to have that lift. He doesn't seem to have that burst. He hasn't been great getting to the rim and playing at the rim.

And so all of those things would either lead to a sore ankle or just general fatigue. Um, he says that he is playing the game the right way and being a good teammate and passing to the open guy. Um, bolster says he's playing defense at a, at a A caliber level.

So I think somewhere and all of there is the, and all that is the actual truth. Um, he, he just doesn't look like even in game one against the Celtics when he had 35, I mean, that was the closest he looked to playoff Jimmy in a while, but you can't make the point. You can't, you cannot try to compare what he looks like right now to that first series against Milwaukee when he shocked all of the NBA by leading that, the stunning upset. And he, that is playoff Jimmy we know.

All right. So what are we going to see tonight? I mean, I keep saying it, I keep saying, well, there, the, the heat of one, this game, and they're winning these games like previously without playoff Jimmy. And so that gives you a chance to take one with him. So, um, I, I'm going to say we, we get him that he's going to have a big night tonight and, um, you know, even the series, so you think that he evens the series tonight.

Okay. I like this. I like, I like the heat tonight. I like a two, two series going back to, to death. Yeah.

And then it's a two, two series and then it sure as you get a game six back in Miami. So you can run into a club. If you happen to be there, you just happen to run into, I like how you said that, right?

Like I just happened to run into a club or whatever. That's, that's pretty cool. I like that.

Joe Vardon of the athletic man. Enjoy game four tonight, man. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good talk. All right.

On the rich eyes and show Joe Vardon, the athletics there, uh, of the athletic. I like the athletic. It's really good. Yeah. Big fan. Big fan. You can see your team on the athletic. I don't know if I can do that here. I don't know if you guys associated with anybody here. I only get in trouble. No, you're good.

First day on the job for another four years. That's the reason why he didn't come back for four years, bro. We are, I was talking about the, uh, the Tyler hero. He made a point about that whole thing about Tyler hero coming back and yeah, you know, you know, you might be having some ankle injuries or some injuries when it comes to, uh, Kyle Lowry and whatnot.

And my, uh, it's dangerous. It would be dangerous to bring Tyler hero back right now. When you think it's like as good as he is, he can shoot. I want those 20 points again.

You just don't answer. It's a hand injury too. You don't know if you're going to get the 20 points a game. Plus these other guys have really stepped up in his absence. He hasn't played this whole playoffs, Tyler hero, and it's given Gabe Vincent and Caleb Martin. And some of these guys, you know, Duncan Robinson's got more minutes he has played in years. And these guys have single-handedly with one series as a, as a unit, this, this kind of no name undrafted crew that they have.

And it's given them a lot of confidence. Duncan Robinson won game two. I mean, that was his game. That was his game.

He came back. So once again with Tyler and once again, it's the defense, the defense, they don't need really much more offense. I mean, they got to stop. They got to find a way to stop Jamal Murray and Nicole Jokic.

Maybe just stop the others, play what they did in game two. Don't make Jokic the facilitator. If he gets less than six assists a game, just keep it at six.

Wouldn't that be crazy? He can score 35 points, six assists, and grab like 15 rebounds and they can win the game. What's funny is like, yeah, force him into being a scorer.

It's funny. A guy scores 40 points. If the team loses in the NBA finals, that never happens. And I think that's what's happened to Denver when he scored over 40.

I don't know what the record is, but I don't think they ever win the record. 0-4. 0-4 when he scores 40 points. So make him score, you know, make him score and guard everybody else. Maybe that's how the Heat get back in it. But once again, it comes down to effort. And the Miami Heat, this is the way they've gotten here so far.

It's a will. It's the underdog. And I think being down 2-1, they'll realize, hey, we lose tonight, this series over.

Because there's no way in the world you're beating a healthy Denver nugget team three straight games with two of those games being in Denver. Definitely not. That's not happening. In and out, Sue. Definitely not happening. Coming up, we're going to talk about, what are we talking about?

College football? We're talking about the Joker. The Joker. You're talking about the Joker.

That's right. I should know what I'm talking about, right? On the show. I'm just kind of freestyling right here. We only planned it the whole first day.

We did, man. Pre-show. Bro, I am not used to getting up really early in the morning. You know what I mean? So you got to understand, I got to need some coffee out here real quick, but that's okay.

I'll get it together. Yeah, we're going to talk about the Joker. And I'm going to tell you the reason why he is not a household name.

And despite him going down as one of the top five centers of all time, he won't be remembered in 30 years. 15 year old girl, you went to New York. I went on a bus and I did get picked up at Port Authority. They thought I was a runaway. What would they do?

They'd detain you and get people on the phone and then they finally let you go to your modeling job. How many times did it happen? Once or twice. It just seems like it wouldn't happen. It happens, yeah.

Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum, wherever you listen. First up is the point guard from the Venice Beach locals, Sidney Dean. Great handle, somewhat of a trash talker, a little bit of a gym rat, but really hustles out on the floor.

That's right. He is undersized and tends to over dribble a little bit. And he also tends to hustle in a negative fashion. But he has played against quality competition, including Freeman Williams, Nigel Miguel, who played at UCLA. Marcus Johnson was in that movie.

And then Gary Moeller, who played at UC Santa Barbara, whose dad pitched for the Dodgers, Joe Moeller. Next up is from Hickory High School, shooting guard Jimmy Chitwood. Jimmy Chitwood, spot up shooter, tends to demand the ball, especially in huddles. He'll make his teammates better, although not particularly supportive of Ali when he took that free throw, those free throws at the end of the game, the underhands against the underhanded free throws against Cedar Knob was the opponent.

Who doesn't enjoy saying Cedar Knob on national radio? The problem, he's not always motivated and Jimmy Chitwood tends to get a little chummy with the alumni. And I think a little questionable relationship with his teacher, Barbara Hershey.

All right, last one for you. He plays tons of position, guard forward and center from Beacon Hills High School, Teen Wolf. Jay, what do you think about his abilities?

Teen Wolf, whose name in the film was Scott Howard when he wasn't a wolf. Great vertical leap, plays above the rim. I think you could refer to him literally and figuratively as a beast. Only 5'3", but plays much bigger.

The problem is he comes from a small town in Nebraska, so he'd have to cut family ties and then he's occasionally violent, although his hair is perfect. We are back on the Rich Eyes and Show. Mike Hill hanging out for the great Rich Eyes and Today on this Friday, getting ready for the weekend. Yeah. Yes, the weekend is upon us, fellas.

Looking forward to that. Yes. Anybody doing anything special for the weekend? Anybody?

No plans? Two kids' birthday parties. Two kids? Wow. My son is three, as everybody knows, but Mike, it's been a while since I was kidless.

I think last time you were here. Yeah, you didn't have a kid. And so that's my life now, weekend birthday parties.

That's awesome, man. You got a boy or girl? I had a boy. Little boy. Okay, you got it.

Cool, cool, cool. Big baseball guy, loves playing baseball in the backyard. He's at the age now where, so my wife, not wife, girlfriend, she is a brace fan.

I'm socks, so we watch both games kind of every night. He's into doing everybody's batting stances now. Okay, so he is hardcore. By the way, TJ, sorry, on Ozzy Alby's home run last night, he was doing the Ozzy Alby stance and running around the living room. Which one does he do the best? He loves Ronald Acuna. That's his guy. Ronald Acuna.

So he's really good at putting his front foot up and kind of having his hands low. So how do you, how do you, how do you decide what allegiance he's going to have? Great question. I'm very thankful that I'm not in a Yankees Red Sox household or anything like that. There's no right. Well, the Braves and Red Sox aren't rivals. Boston and Atlanta don't have a rivalry really in any sport. Definitely meet in the World Series this year.

28 to 3, shout out. So there's no, there's nothing there. So it's like, I'm fine if he can root for both teams. It's really not a huge deal.

Okay. One American League, one National League team. You know, I heard TJ's got about 20 teams. You got about 20. You got one major league team, though.

Just one. One major league team. One NFL team and three college football teams. Just college, man.

There's a lot of colleges out there. I'd look at it, but, you know, pro sports. TJ didn't go to a big college, so it's, you know, this is our fun ground. Wow. You're a Hoyas fan too?

College basketball. Okay. All right.

All right. Back in the, I used to think, so you were the same person like me back in the day, Hoyas in the eighties and nineties. You thought Georgetown was an HBCU? You look at the team and you're like, man, they got all these black people to go to Georgetown. Nope.

Just the basketball team and the coach. No, it's going to be, Pinkney's going to turn that team around, man. I hope so, man. I was hoping you could get the job done and he didn't, you know, that was kind of hard to see, but I hope they get back. Ed Cooley.

I'm sorry. Let's say Pinkney. Ed Cooley. Ed Cooley's going to be Providence former coach.

Hey, you guys, we're going to get into a little bit more, Nicole Jokic talking just a second. Gilbert Arena said that Larry Bird would beat LeBron in a one-on-one basketball game. Did you guys see that?

I did not. You mentioned that in a break. That is kind of wild to think about, but when you mentioned the rationale behind it, it kind of made sense. Whereas Bird's game in the half court sense of how you play one-on-one kind of is a little more conducive where LeBron is kind of up and down speed, power. That doesn't really translate if you're just playing one-on-one to the top of the key. And he made great points because LeBron takes away a lot of his effectiveness because of the half court. You know, like LeBron does do it sometimes when he's in the half court, he'll bring it out.

You'll see sometimes he'll bring it out and then he'll attack his defender. I can see him doing that against Bird. Obviously, he would have the strength advantage against Bird, but Bird was a killer, man. Bird was a killer. Bird was a killer. And Bird would talk so much, smack LeBron, I think he'd get in his head.

Oh my gosh. And I think he's got that will, once again, to beat anybody he's playing, no matter who he's playing. I think Larry Bird, Larry Bird was a bad boy. Remember, Larry Bird played a whole game left-handed for fun and scored what, 30? Just because he could. Just because he felt like it? Just because he could. He closed his eyes, man. He told you where he was going to go and what type of shot he was going to shoot, and he did it.

And he still made it. And you know, what kills me is that when people talk about their top 10 list, I still don't hear a lot of Larry Bird. Larry Bird's my top five NBA players of all time.

Okay. I love me some Larry Bird because of that same aggressiveness. And he's memorable because of that aggressiveness, which brings me to Nikola Jokic.

What do you got, Mike? Here's Nikola Jokic once again is the best skill center I've ever seen. No weakness whatsoever in this offensive game. We can say whatever you want to about defense, but he's a two-time MVP. Probably could have won it, maybe should have won it this year over Joel Embiid, depending on who you are. The problem I have with Nikola Jokic is, and a lot of people will think, oh, he's going to say the race thing. If he was Nicholas Jackson out of Sacramento instead of Nikola Jokic out of Serbia, he would, no, it ain't because Tim Duncan was like, the thing about Nikola Jokic is he's boring. It's, it's, it's fun to watch. It's skillful to watch, but it's not, it's not a highlight thing.

It's not, he, he, to me, he is, he's basically, that was a great comparison. Tim Duncan, Tim Duncan could do so much. Tim Duncan will go down as the greatest power forward of all time. Greatest power forward of all time. How many times do people bring up Tim Duncan when you talk about the top 10 list? And he should be in a lot of top 10 lists.

Because you don't remember the game and that's unfortunate because it's so pure. Nikola Jokic is fundamentally sound, can shoot, does a lot of great passes, touch passes, couple of highlights here and there. Don't get me wrong, but he's, he's not memorable. I mean, he's got the YMCA body.

He's got the YMCA dad bod. Nikola Jokic could walk down Times Square right now. And if you're not an NBA fan, you'd be like, oh, that's just a tall dude right there. You would not know who this guy is.

And that's unfortunate. Maybe that's because he's in Denver. Part of the reason, not on national television a lot, I think that's going to change a little bit more. If he was in New York, maybe it would change a little bit more. Maybe you get a little bit, but he lacks, he lacks that.

To me, the color Jokic on the offensive end is Maggie Johnson in a white taller body. He could shoot though, but he doesn't have that swagger. He doesn't have that appeal. He doesn't have that, you know, that, that cue that, what's that, what's that fancy word? Who wants to say, say sua, whatever.

Geneseequah. He doesn't, I don't even know. I don't even know.

I may have cursed on the right. He doesn't, he doesn't, it's, there's the, so in 30 years, when you're talking about maybe even in 15 years, he's going to win his MVPs and he's going to go down as one of the top five centers of all time. But because Jokic doesn't talk that much to the press, he doesn't talk smack, he doesn't run up and down the court. He just plays basketball and he plays it effective and he plays it well. And he's the best basketball player in the world right now. He is.

I love right now. I'm going to have to give it to him. I love Giannis.

Love him. He took the belt from Giannis. He took the belt from Giannis, but the, the bronze of the world and Katie, they're past their prime.

They're come on, man. Jason Tatum's getting there. He's getting there. I'm a, I'm a big Embiid fan, but Embiid had his chance. Like when they went head to head, he put it on Joker. But when the playoffs came and we needed, and Mike, you don't know this about me, my biggest argument, my biggest complaint with Embiid is you are in that body. You're seven foot, you're 280, 290, and yet you're 22 feet away from the rim at all times.

Like it is perfectly legal for you to step in that key big man and put in work and he don't do that. I will say this though, TJ, the problem is, is that he can consistently knock down that shot. As long as you can consistently knock down that shot, as long as you consistently do that, I'm fine with that. Now, Patrick Ewing used to, I'm a Knicks guy, right? So Patrick Ewing used to step outside all the time and whatnot.

I believe in that series against the Denver Nuggets. I mean, obviously when he was head to head, well, he won Philadelphia loss in the series against the Boston I should say. He was hurt. Embiid wasn't himself. But he's always hurt. But yeah. But that's even part of it too. So when we talk about the greatest player that's there, your best ability is what?

Available availability. I'm carping for Joker. I'm just saying this is what I wish Embiid would do some of the things that Joker does. But yeah, he 1000 percent. I give Embiid the edge on the defensive end. And that's the reason why I gave him the MVP this year because I felt like he had a really great season.

The numbers were there defensively. He was phenomenal. I've seen argument for him. And once again, I saw more of Joel Embiid than I saw Joker. Maybe if I were to see more of Joker, I probably would've given it to Joker. But once again, Joker's phenomenal.

Great. Taking nothing away from this guy. If he had the swagger of Jamal Murray, if he had a little bit of that, man, he'd be a household name.

I mean, think about it. The other day he has a 30 and 20 triple double. Never been done in NBA history. And he goes, it was just a stat. Just a stat. All this dude wants to do is play ball and FaceTime his horses. Ten triple doubles.

Yeah. He could be the new Wilt Chamberlain. He's amazing. Zion Williamson is the new Wilt Chamberlain. Arthur T.J. Newman coming up in hour number two.

Mike Hill filling in for Rich Oz. We'll be right back right after this. I'm sorry. I know you've been watching this, man. It's wild. Oh, my gosh. It is. We're going to we're going to tap dance around this.

If you've been on social media in the last, what, two, three days, three days. Oh, my gosh. First off, congratulations.

Zion Williamson. He's he's expecting his wife or his girlfriend. His girlfriend is expecting congratulations. Yeah.

And then that has set off a whole bunch of other stuff. When you said he's expecting, I'm like, he ain't that fat yet. Him and his hip and his lady are expecting, which is awesome.

Yes, it's awesome. But someone else is not too thrilled about it. Yeah. Mariah. I'm not familiar with her work.

I'm not familiar with her work. Other people are. Yeah. Yeah. So she's on Twitter going off about. Yeah, everything.

Yeah, a lot. And it's not safe for television. We can't mention. You can't even talk about that at dinner. A tenth of what she's talking about right now is crazy. Do your own research? Yeah.

But I want to get it. I want to get it to that a little bit later on, because that 2019 draft of Jaa Zion, R.J. Barrett, R.J. Barrett was trending yesterday. He was because you're talking about R.J. Barrett now being maybe the best pick in that draft. He's nice.

I'm a nice guy. You know, love R.J. Barrett. Yeah. Up and down, man. We'll talk more about that. Our number two coming up on the Rich Eisen Show.

T.J. Newman, author right after this. Conspiracy theories, paranormal UFOs. Science teacher Andrew Greenwood stated that a child ran into his classroom and was hysterically screaming and talking about the flying saucer outside. Hundreds of children ran out of their classrooms to go outside and see this unidentified flying object that was just above the school. Just imagine a bunch of kids running out of school. Most of them just ran home. Theories of the third kind on YouTube or wherever you listen.