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Carolina Journal Radio No. 747: Makeup artist sues over burdensome N.C. regulations

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
September 11, 2017 12:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 747: Makeup artist sues over burdensome N.C. regulations

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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September 11, 2017 12:00 am

A Charlotte makeup artist wants to open a school to share her expertise. But a state regulatory board says no. To win state permission, Jasna Bukvic-Bhayani would be forced buy thousands of dollars of new equipment and expand her curriculum to include 500 hours of instruction in subjects other than makeup. So she is suing the state. Carolina Journal has covered her story. Editor-in-Chief Rick Henderson explains why the Institute for Justice is pursuing the lawsuit on free-speech grounds. The political left has turned to the sports world in recent years for ammunition in its ideological battles. The “weaponization” of sports has attracted attention from John Locke Foundation Senior Vice President Jon Pritchett and Duke University visiting professor Ed Tiryakian. They explain how the campaign to turn the athletic arena into a political battleground is hurting entities such as cable sports giant ESPN. The N.C. Supreme Court listened recently to the latest arguments in a political fight between Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper and the Republican-led General Assembly. Cooper’s attorney, Jim Phillips, challenged the legislature’s plan to merge state elections and ethics boards into a new eight-member group split evenly between Democrats and Republicans. The legislature’s attorney, Noah Huffstetler, responded that lawmakers have the constitutional power to reshape state agencies. U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions touted local and federal efforts to fight gang violence during a recent speech in Winston-Salem. The nation’s top law enforcement officer detailed efforts in Washington, D.C., to support anti-gang work from local law enforcement agencies. A recent tweet from President Trump faulted online shopping giant Amazon for its negative impact on local retail business across the country. Roy Cordato, John Locke Foundation senior economic and resident scholar, explains why Trump’s comments miss the mark. Cordato says the president ignores the importance of consumer choice in markets and the ultimate purpose of production in a free market.


From Cherokee to current attack from the largest city to the smallest and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I Michiko got during the next hour, Donna Martines and I will explore some major issues affecting our state. The political left has turned to sports in recent years for extra ammunition in its ideological battles you hear from two experts who have watched the changes they'll explain how politics is affected the business of sports. Speaking of politics, a tug-of-war between the North Carolina Gov. and Gen. assembly heads to the state Supreme Court to hear highlights US Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions targeted gang violence during a recent trip to Winston-Salem. He discussed the federal government's role in helping local law enforcement agencies fight gags and will explore Pres. Trump's recent comments blaming online shopping giant Amazon for local economic woes we hear from economist who says he's wrong. Those topics are just ahead. But first, Donna Martinez joins us with the Carolina Journal headline I North Carolina woman wants to open a makeup school, but the North Carolina Board of cosmetic art examiners refuses to give her a license now. She says she's been told she won't be allowed to operate her cosmetology school legally but if she were to make it an ecstatic school that would be okay with the state problem is it's not okay with her for all sorts of reasons.

And now she's suing to try to get a decision Rick Henderson as editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal Carolina Journal has been reporting on this story.

He's here to talk about that Rick, welcome back. Thank you for some wise.

The state of North Carolina even interested in a woman from Charlotte who wants to open a makeup school. The main reason they're interested in this is that they are all position of licensing people who are involved in institutions and who are cosmetologists and what they want to make sure is that people who are licensed to do one thing, don't do something else and they are saying is that this particular case of the woman from Charlotte Yost Abu Chris Magnani who was willing to open a makeup school is licensed to do what she's doing, which is as nest aesthetician, but that to open a makeup school. She could have to also be involved cosmetology, which involves a whole different set of equipment that you have to buy unrelated to teaching people how to apply makeup and also teaching all sorts of additional information about skills that have nothing to do with applying makeup's was entirely a regulatory bureaucratic maze that she's okay. So our listeners are probably gathering by now you are a male, I am a female I am.

I am wearing makeup and I'm trying to figure out exactly what would be the harm to me.

Should this Charlotte woman. Give me a makeup lesson and I not like the makeup that's the question for the court is also the question this before an awful lot of licensing. How does the board's ability to affirm or deny someone's ability to earn a living doing something affect public health and safety and the question that the that she was doing here with the support of the Institute for Justice in Washington DC, is a First Amendment challenge and this is not a challenge to the occupational licensing regime per se, but this is more arguing that the First Amendment says you have a right to teach people you have a right to speak. You have a right to tell somebody or to provide advice as any number of sites on you to remember videos on YouTube or places like craft see your different websites like that that provide advice can do without any problems whatsoever. However, if you rent or buy a brick-and-mortar facility and you offer classes and you have people physically in the building.

All the sudden you got to jump through all these regulatory barriers of the person whose speaking on YouTube or is in as in Yost's case is actually on television and done you makeup demonstrations and things like that. She just finds all she's not telling anybody else how to do pretty fascinating. So, the Institute for Justice there taking the First Amendment challenge root versus Sam, this is just an outrageous way to keep her from earning a living. Did they think that they have a greater likelihood to prevail on a First Amendment argument.

The I'm guessing that that's the Hester the strategy there because they could go with the North Carolina constitutional provision which says that you that you have a right to earn a living base with you can't eat cannot be denied.

The fruits of your labor. But this First Amendment approach could have much more far-reaching implications for you will imagine things like culinary schools and things like that in which it might will be possible for people who are simply wishing to teach something will not be required to go through and in her case, she would have to go stress you have to possibly by tens of thousands of dollars of equipment to do things like waxing, which she doesn't do or spell or in this case is as is described for every hour that she teaches someone how to apply makeup. She would also have to spend an additional five hours talking about things like hair removal and how to give facials, which again the people who are attending school would not have any interest in knowing or so they would just enroll someplace else.

So it has to do with her ability to speak freely without being told by the government what she has to say and how she has to say Rick. It also seems to be just such section, an effort to discourage someone who wants to use her skill to earn a living for herself and one would think that time in a civil society that you want to encourage people to do that to myself self-sufficient. That's right, this is this is definitely buried on worship.

Two people setting their own pace and their own course in life and again in this case what she's trying to do with the school is not trained cosmetologists are not trained aestheticians.

She simply held, helping to to instruct people how to apply makeup better or how to help their friends who all want to learn makeup skills they in some cases or students may well be other licensed aestheticians are cosmetologists even who want to learn this, but she has certain ability to teach and she wants to use that and she was to be able to do so professionally and right now of the signals Carolina so she can't now be other avenues that tap that we are traditionally used to hearing about when we hear these challenges is that the issue public safety and public health. We know that in North Carolina we got a number of trades in and skilled areas where licenses are required and the discussion really now seems to be about where is that line where public safety or public health really would be impacted if someone was involved in doing something incorrectly but we met some things that are licensed in our state that really don't rise to that level to the landscape architecture is one of them. I believe I don't know if it actually passes general, simply, but I know that there was a bill that got to release one the body of the Gen. assembly that would licensed music therapists. For instance, and so the ring there all sorts of different areas.

Anyone who has a specialized skill and wants it to to provide training in that skill to others always wants to get some sort of legal advantage over those who may not have the level of training or certification.

And so there's always this battle of of making sure that outsiders are not allowed in keeping competition, exactly as restraint of trade is what it is, largely, which that's what most occupational licensing is about. There certainly are areas in which public health and safety is his concern. This would not seem to be one of them and is John Sanders and John Locke foundation is said, though there there are places like websites like yelp. There are all sorts of different consumer oriented websites, social media outlets where people can rates, whether or not someone is doing a good job or bad job, especially if it doesn't have any effect on whether or not there endangering someone's life are dangerous oneself and especially if she were to operate and not be working with other people who are in that field and the word gets around frankly between shops and specialists in things like that you recommend I do not recommend you estimate the network of everything from hairstylists to makeup artist, you name it. I mean this is it's a pretty robust amount of cut communication goes on to someone who's doing the job badly that that word gets up and quickly filling in the case of you guys know what comes next in her lawsuit against the state of North Carolina. What the attorneys are attempting to do is to get the court to enjoin the state and state. The state know you can't stop her from opening the school and if they do that, then at that point they may not lawsuit may be over but if the courts is no were going to allow this prohibition to maintain itself. Then you will have oral arguments before the full trial and Carolina journal will be covering all the developments. This story we've been talking about, written by Lindsay Marcello and Caroline internal Rick Henderson is editor-in-chief. Thank you.

Thank you. Same with this much more Carolina general radio to come in just a moment government plays a key role in your life affecting your paycheck the way you educate your kids the way you do business. How can you tell if government is doing a good job making the right choices. Spending tax dollars wisely. Carolina tackles those questions every day. The John Locke foundation publishes Carolina journal imprint each month and on the web each you'll find exclusive investigative reports on topics. No one else is covering what else a rundown of the best new stories, editorials and opinion columns in North Carolina. John Hood's daily Journal news stories and important public event set Carolina and the voices of the newsmakers themselves at Carolina journal radio imprint on the air and on the web.

You can find the information you welcome back Carolina journal radio I Michiko guy. Many of us like to play and watch sports for the competition.

The entertainment chance to marvel at athletic skill, but our next guests have been focusing on a disturbing trend in the sports world. They recently spoke to the John Locke foundation's Shaftesbury Society on the following thing the left is hijacking the sports industry and making it their weapon. Our guests are Ed teriyaki and associate professor of corporate finance and business economics at Duke University and John Pritchett, senior vice president of the John foundation.

Thanks for joining us. You image so this is sort of a disturbing trend. If that the left is turning the sports world into a political weapon. Tell us how you came to observe this well I'll start so I have similar backgrounds and that we spent a long time outside of public policy in education and in the private world and both of us a lot of time in the sports industries and even more so than myself. Economics and corporate finance plus a long time in the sports industry as well as it ended and that were also conservatives so not only in our profession but just personally in our own views. We've observed what's been going on in. It's been sort of a slow drip and then suddenly there's been an acceleration of it in and I think most people saw it for the first time we've been observing it for a while, but with the HP to Incident Pl. in North Carolina earlier this year and last year and then we decided let's get together and I will start adding a little bit of science and data in and look at how good this is for businesses whether it's prudent for people like Disney and ESPN. Let's look at from a constitutional perspective whether this is something that the ACC in the NCAA and other sports organizations should be doing is it in their mission and was all this mean for the consumer. And for those of us who just enjoy sports, regardless of whatever political persuasions are how is this playing out sober tell you what the left hijacking the sports industry. How do we see this happening. I would like to point out I was Christian leaders agent just as an aside, okay love sports and having been at Duke for a few years is one of those rare institutions that has both outstanding academics and wonderful sports and you just begin to see some things that were disturbing corporate finance" so I teach. You've watched the worldwide leader in sports quickly become the worldwide leader in clinical rhetoric. This is ESPN is. And it's manifested itself in that they had 100 million viewers just three years ago and now they're down in the low 80s and they raise their prices and are not making money, and Disney knows this and the claim that has been bandied about for the last year and 1/2 is because they're inserting politics into what we all like to do, which is why sports and suddenly the number of people who are turning off ESPN is an alarming rate and for someone like Disney is a corporate finance professor manifests itself in the earnings. This is what were seen and regardless of what Disney's take on it is.

It's clear from the earnings that they were the worst performing stock in the Dow Jones last year. You have to start looking more closely what's going on in the case of ESPN were talking about the way the commentators are presenting sports issues throwing politics into it, but that it also plays out in other ways to these various leagues being involved with with trying to weapon eyes sports is that right now you ESPN is one of the partners in this sort of left weaponization argument or observation is there. It takes multiple parties you have the content providers you have the sports leagues themselves yet to have media partner you also then for that to work to your point, provide shareholder value and profitability. You have corporate support. The one piece that it seems that left is taken for granted is the most essential component of this business model which is the consumers. Those who enjoy sports, and who go to a sports as an escape or as a way to find common denominator things a matter. Whatever political persuasions are that we enjoy and so when you start to look closely at the data, which is what's astonishing for people ahead, and I look at this, seven have all of our lives of sports viewers who are they, what is their likelihood to vote.

What how they skew along political policy lines and you start to realize that the majority of them are in the center right high voter turnout area and this is been borne out in data for some time and so you really makes you question why would you go about doing that. If your goal ultimately is to provide shareholder value in your goal ultimately is to run a successful business and to give people what they want, so you have higher ratings and therefore more corporate support. It makes you scratch your head realize is more going on here than just trying to earn profit from that vantage point, it sounds like somewhat shooting yourself in the foot. It truly is ESPN.

It's been systematic you seen them get rid of some conservative announcers you've seen their omnibus man who's there to sort of give you the state of affairs say you know we we lean pretty left the systemic part is when you see in conjunction with leagues with the NCAA with the ACC.

That's the worrisome part here because they control the content. They're the ones who have the product. ESPN is sort of a bystander that buys a product and sells it to us when you see both systematic and systemic so very hard for sports viewer to escape that's that's what's alarming to us.

You mentioned that you are seeing this in terms of the bottom line for ESPN and I would imagine this would also have an impact on other sports networks or leagues that engage in this. If they're making their own customers mad is that going to be what ultimately corrects this or is there going to be a correction to the folks who are who are looking at these numbers seem to see that there is a problem or or can we tell that they do ESPN. It is the example that I point to to say they just don't seem to care until just in the last quarter when you sort of epic proportions of subscriber lost 10,000 a day is with the ravaging now and when you've lost 2 billion in topline revenue when your valuation for ESPN goes from 50 billion.

Three years ago to 5 billion today I am from that old school that says a billion still a lot of money, so 45 of them.

That's a whole lot of money and if you're Bob Iger, CEO, chairman of Disney.

Regardless of your political persuasion is a big Hillary fan you have a valuation for your shareholders. It says hey wait a minute. We have to start looking so just recently they have announced a major restructuring at the management level looks like the CEOs can be stepping down shortly.

Yes, in other words, that they do have to look at it. I think where you also start to see some pushback is. Let's take a look at this whole sort of sports complex. So if you if you follow the NCAA like I have are the ACC and if you look at all of the ways they will be affected by the problems at ESPN and Disney most of the valuations because the pro sports level as well.

But if we just look at the lens of college athletics.

The number of employees the salaries the executives at the MCA level.

The Taj Mahal is a rebuilt bill for athletic directors and their gigantic staff that have grown exponentially. All of these sort of things will start to then suddenly be?

We may not have perpetual growth because most of the growth is been driven by media rights to people who are going to be watching very closely.

As these factors play out our teriyaki and who is associate Prof. of corporate finance and business economics at Duke University and you just heard and their John Pritchett Senior VP John Locke.

Thanks much going thank you on Carolina journal radio full-color throughout every issue more visual storytelling. We've revamped Carolina journal to make it easier to read a new look and a new feel. But one thing hasn't changed and it never will. That is our commitment to truth and transparency in government, you can still count on Carolina journal for investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles and vetting of corruption. No permission to shine the light on what North Carolina government and the bureaucrats who run it are doing in your name and with your money will never wane and because of that I reach and influence are growing through all of our distribution outlets we reach more than 1 million N. Carolinians every month so make sure you stay informed. Read the monthly print edition of Carolina journal.

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Don't forget log on to today by something nice and help defend freedom. Support the John Locke foundation will go back Carolina journal radio I Michiko got North Carolina's Democratic governor and Republican lead Gen. assembly continue to wage a political battle in the courts. The state Supreme Court recently heard opposing views about a law that would transform the state board of elections.

It would become an eight-member group with an equal number of Democrats and Republicans governor Roy Cooper objects his attorney Jim Phillips explains why that will leave substantial discretion to the executive and how it will be carried out. The general statute allows calls for early says it will have and then calls for a minimum number of locations at a minimum number of days 70 days. The County Board of elections that that the default authorizes the executive to expand upon approval of both the local County and the state. The executive can expand the number of days from early voting, including Saturdays and a number of locations. The executive implementing this policy to use and make it easier to and that reinforces the report's insistence that the governor be able to point people share his views and power words that have filed executive authority, the governor has to be able to appoint a majority people's share his views and priorities when those boards have finally executive authority attorney Noah Hufstetler represents the general assembly. He offered the court and opposing view under our Constitution Gen. assembly has NOT specific to a different branch of state power. And here's North Carolina is exercised through representatives and soon, but what article 3, section 5 subdivision, TN just to say textual recognition of the general said simply spout organized reorganized importance of state government, and it gives the governor limited and circumscribed will play section may essentially suggest the general changes through timely submission of executive orders which the general assembly can be in C reject or modify but it makes very clear that it is the general assembly has the final decision making role in this era with the governor on one side and the legislature.

On the other. The final decision about the future of North Carolina's elections board rests with the courts will return with more Carolina journal rate real influence. You either have it or you don't and at the John Locke foundation. We do that's not bluster in a private survey of more than 250 North Carolina political insiders 7% said we influence them either a great deal are good amount. So while others talk and complain. We get to work providing research solutions that help our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control.

Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse that is the envy of every other state. Our research is actually help policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you earn. Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities and improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future. The John Locke foundation were dedicated to making North Carolina first and freedom were dedicated to you look back Carolina journal radio I Michiko got the nation's top law enforcement officer gave a recent peptalk in North Carolina. He focused on police and sheriff's officers who target gang violence in the Tar Heel state, US Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions addressed the North Carolina gang investigators Association meeting in Winston-Salem. We are all in this together and we all face the threat of violent games is a serious national problem.

It is a priority gang attacking gangs is a priority of the US Department of Justice and were going to support you in your efforts. This is not just the big city problem. I heard recently about Hamlet, North Carolina, where this year's annual Independence Day celebration was canceled.

Suddenly because of threats of gang violence. This is a town of about 7000 people bigger than where and I certainly respect the decision of the city leaders, but it is infuriating and wrong that they had to make such a decision.

This is America.

We will not be held hostage in our homes and our communities by nine.

It cannot be.

Why does the US Atty. Gen. believe it's important to fight gangs gangs see to profit off the victimization of others through drug trafficking, extortion, murdering rivals, robbing innocent bystanders trafficking vulnerable juveniles for sex their outlaws that outside decent system of America sessions admitted he was preaching to the choir when addressing professional gang investigators and crime scenes you say in the aftermath of gang warfare and drug crimes. You know what is at stake, and you also know that this threat has been growing. According to the FBI's most recent national gang report approximately half of the gang investigators. They surveyed said they gang membership again activity are increasing. I'm sure many of them felt there was allow all and even fewer believe is decreasing. Approximately one third of jurisdictions reported and in crease in threats to law enforcement. So in recent years North Carolina has been one of the many parts of the country that has experienced violent crime and homicide increases. Nationally, the murder rate has surged nearly 11% in just one year, 11% in one year. The biggest increase since 1968 the homicide rate is often 27, 35 largest cities. Some dramatically don't think this is a boil in my best judgment my time in law enforcement and watching it on the Senate Judiciary Committee Friday. This is a trend.

The starting of a trend that we do not want to see happen.

That's US Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions speaking recently in Winston-Salem. He addressed the North Carolina gang investigators Association is the gang threat has grown, so have our efforts to fight back. The Department of Justice is using every lawful resource we have, but on this resource really are you, state and local people are out there every day and we need gangs are more effective than other criminals because they work together were a lot more effective when we work together to and we are working.

I feel real good about that and we want to see it even sessions celebrated.

Recent North Carolina success stories in April to bloods gang members in Charlotte were sentenced for executing to witnesses in a robbery case, thanks to the empty Charlotte police in York County Sheriff's office in our assistant United States attorney's these dangerous murderers will now spend the rest of their lives behind bars where than that they can no longer inflict colonies in our communities and I think it's important to send a message you threaten, injure or kill our witnesses. We are coming after you. We will not accept drug gangs and criminals attacking killing witnesses is always been an important principle in law enforcement.

Well in one month. After that more than 600 law enforcement officers came together to rest more than 70 alleged members of the bloods together, these defendants have been charged with a whole host of crimes, including murder, attempted murder, narcotics trafficking weapons charges, bank fraud and wire fraud. These charges on the next step in neutralizing the threat posed by the bloods, North Carolina. We must keep after them.

We cannot let them recover from these attacks and I hope that you will be able to expand on the pressure you put on this gang members what is MS 13. The bloods are motorcycle clubs gangs are targeting are used in law-abiding citizens, but I have news for them.

We are targeting you Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions shared more information about the federal fight against criminal gangs since the beginning of this year, the Department of Justice has secured more than 1200 convictions against gang members high-fiving SMS 13 is emblematic almost a symbol of the effort that we were on the going with more than 40,000 members worldwide, including 10,000 in the United States, MS 13 threatens the lives and well-being of every American MS 13 members brutally raped Rob to extort and murder.

MS 13 is executed and permanently disfigured bystanders to crimes they have attacked innocent people with chains and bats in the shins.

They destroy the lives of medicine middle schoolers that they recruit for membership.

The young girls they entrap gang rape and sell for sex and drug addicts that explore profits guided by their motto chill rate and control daily misery devastation and death in their way. United States Department of Justice. We have a motto to justice for victims consequences for criminals. This is our motto is our mission is your mission. Even though MS 13 is based in El Salvador, it's tentacles reach across Central America, Europe and through 40 US states to within yards of the US capital. I wish I could say that North Carolina had not been affected by MS 13, but they're here in the threat is serious sessions since the nationwide fight against criminal gangs continues we will refuse to see one block, one streetcorner, one is to these guys. They must never be able to assert sovereignty over United States territory remember is more than just cases were looking to reduce crime to take the bloom off the rows of these guys to send a message to young people that you join a gang member, you're going to jail you not living life. This is not the thing you want to be involved. That's US Atty. Gen. Jeff sessions speaking recently in Winston-Salem, get dressed, the North Carolina gang investigators Association will return with more Carolina journal rate if you love freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups all across the state. All in one place North Carolina one-stop shopping for North Carolina St. movement had North Carolina You'll find links to John Locke foundation blogs on the days news Carolina reporting and quick takes Carolina journal radio interviews TV interviews featuring CJ reporters and Locke foundation analyst plus opinion pieces and reports on higher education. All of that from the Pope Center for higher education policy commentary and polling data from the Cintas Institute and news and views from the North Carolina family policy Council. That's right, all of that, all in one place North Carolina that's North Carolina spelled out North Carolina Log on today. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio I'm Donna Martinez. If you order something online you have probably ordered something from Amazon but as Amazon grows some people are concerned about the negative impact it will have on bricks and mortar stores. Pres. Donald Trump is among that group tweeting that Amazon is doing damage jobs are being lost and more. Dr. Roy Coronado who is the John lock foundation senior economists found that tweet and he takes issue with it easier to explain why white, welcome back to the shelf to be back to let me read the full tweet resident. He tweeted Amazon is doing great damage to taxpaying retailers, towns and cities and states throughout the US are being hurt many jobs being lost!

Trump yeah well the fact is that Amazon has no power to do any such thing.

And that's because unlike the government institution.

It doesn't Trump runs Amazon has no power to force consumers to do anything fact, all the powers in the hands of consumers. So when when present, Trump makes that complaint. He is really complaining about the choices of consumers because they put Amazon in the position it's in.

They choose offers made by Amazon over offers made by Best Buy, Macy's, Belk's whatever the whatever the company is so I think he displays common ignorance of who's in the driver seat. When it comes to markets and that's and that's customers and he also says that tweet and many jobs being lost actually be accurate if one company is doing better over another. It happens all the time but I don't not being lost a lot of them are being shifted to Amazon or I am in the business is going somewhere the production is actually expanding because Amazon makes products more available and allows people to purchase more stuff than they otherwise would that that means more stuff is being produced, which is so jobs are probably being shifted some of them to Amazon itself and and some of them to two other retailers, or actually producers so I will, I would argue that they are being lost it's it's very myopic to say that jobs are being lost and the fact is, is that the Amazon even if they were again would not have to back the power to make those jobs in other businesses go away. It's the consumer's decision to stop doing business with late say some brick brick-and-mortar businesses and buy through Amazon over the Internet.

It's their choice and they can always choose to go back and if Amazon doesn't watch out, they money, I'm in other words the business to maintain a high market share has to really continue to do what they did to gain because as I said in the piece we consumers are fickle right if some business. We are if some company were doing business with SARS to treat us poorly, we immediately start look for somebody else and I Amazon is not immune from that and to that point. It's interesting because there some folks have been writing about Amazon and as it grows and grows in and at this point. Now, whole foods, it looks like Amazon is right buying whole foods, some people are say well gee Amazon is going to take over the world and that means there heading towards being. This this mega operation around the world and therefore it's going to be somehow bad for consumers. Let's remember they said that about IBM and the personal computer they said that about Walmart and who's putting Walmart out of business now Amazon right.

I mean, so the who's a big competitor. So that's been said a million times. It was said about Zenith and televisions back in the 1950s it. It's that is such a common story and it's it's this idea. That's called predatory pricing in the in in economics literature's this idea that a company can grow so big couldn't get close to hundred percent market and then look at what will he do, he will act like a big monopolist and what does that mean raise prices treat consumers badly, but the fact is, is that in order for that business to maintain network sure has to do whatever he did again if he starts treating consumers badly doesn't have to come from some business already in the market. There's entrepreneurs out there everywhere waiting to earn a buck to get my business. It's like treating consumers badly is like flashing a sign saying hey entrepreneurs there's profit opportunities right here and and and that's what they were doing. So it's kind of silly look. The fact is, is that only government can do that government can grow so big because in and oppress its its constituents. If you want to call them that because they have the power force for conflict today but Amazon has no power to force its customers to purchase their product and their customers like myself I'm in Amazon customer will turn on them in a heartbeat in a heartbeat if they start treating him poorly and to your point about coercion and force the affordable care act O should have government approved health insurance or pay a penalty and that is very good example. The thing about Pres. Trump Roy is that he is a successful entrepreneur businessman. He has had the heights of success he's had the gaps of failure and yet has managed to come back and now it's been elected president of the United States, yet he tweeted this and as you said, it shows kind of myopic view of the economy. Certainly, he must know that that tweet really doesn't square with economics.

Well, I would think I would think that that's the case I would hope that that's the case, but look he's a businessman who left Three Frank consumers have turned on him more than once right so my guess is he really does not he'd like to protect businesses from consumers and their choices. He shown that in international trade. I mean he he he really the trade problems. He refers to again are the result of consumer choices not the result of any thing that some foreign businesses do what they it what they've done is they've attracted consumers by making people better offers than they can get elsewhere and to a businessman that's pretty darn threatening Roy. One thing that we are anticipating seeing coming out the Trump administration is some sort of a detailed tax reform or tax-cut plan. We've heard the president talk about this if you were advising Pres. Trump, what would you advise him to do with the federal tax rate and in the federal tax code. Well, I think he got off to a good start. When he presented his own plan here that will however Mike many months ago but was now you know I would say take that plan and push it, which is so low rates dramatically lower corporate rates. I think 15%. So you essentially like what yeah and I argue at the time. It's it's really learn something from North Carolina miss the kind of things that we didn't talk 2013 and continued to do since then law lowering lowering rates, lowering the corporate income tax rate. So I think his own like I like with Amazon and in the southern area. I think his his instincts are are correct. In fact, he wrote a piece about that and that is available as is the piece we been talking about with the president's tweet about Amazon are both written by Roy Coronado.

In this case the headline, Pres. attacks consumers with Amazon tweet Roy Coronado's Senior economist for the Locke foundation frequent guest here on Carolina journal radio. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch Toback.

I'm Donna Martinez. Join us again next week for another edition of Carolina journal radio Carolina journal radio is a program of the John Locke learn more about the John Locke foundation including donations support programs like Carolina journal radio send email to development John Locke call 66 GLM info 166-553-4636 journal radio nation airline is maintained on this program nearly formation about the show or other foundation airline sponsored Carolina radio again

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