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Rev. Percy McCray Discusses Caring for Cancer Patients and Their Families

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger
The Truth Network Radio
June 26, 2022 3:30 am

Rev. Percy McCray Discusses Caring for Cancer Patients and Their Families

Hope for the Caregiver / Peter Rosenberger

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June 26, 2022 3:30 am

Rev. Percy McCray Jr. has spent more than 20 years ministering to cancer patients and their caregivers at Cancer Treatment Centers of America® (CTCA). He recognizes cancer care ministry as a special calling from God and considers faith a key but often overlooked component of cancer treatment.

He now serves as the Director of Faith-Based Programs at CTCA® and provides leadership to the pastoral care staff at all five CTCA hospitals. In addition, Rev. McCray oversees Our Journey of Hope®, a nationwide cancer care ministry training, and support program.

An ordained minister, Rev. McCray is a member of the U.S. Chaplain Association. 


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Hope for the Caregiver
Peter Rosenberger
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Jesus said blessed are the persecuted and they are suffering big time right now. This is my billing international in 19-year-old Ari was beaten by her own father and violated by local authorities in order crime was simply that she gave her life to Jesus Christ after leaving radical Islam.

They need Bibles in order to endure and persevere and that's why Truth Network and Bible league are teamed up to sin. God's word to 3500 persecuted believers around the world at five dollars a Bible hundred dollars since 20. Call 800 yes word 800 yes word 800 yes word or give a You know, I do hope for the caregiver. This Roseburg.

This is the program you as a family caregiver that is BJ Thomas wonderful son of loved it for a lifetime. When the first songs I learned how to play on the piano and Archie Jordan course wrote that in these been on our program is just a great song is a great topic for what were going to talk about in the next couple segments here and here with Rev. Percy McRae from South Florida and working to talk about cancer in ministering to those who are dealing with cancer and their families and many times when you hear the cancer were people just go into a almost a paralysis of fear is a harsh brick to the face diagnosis and you gave me love when nobody gave me a prayer.

Sometimes people sitting in their oncologist office they and you know was give me a prayer on this, but we have a Savior that does who advocates for us, who was with us through all of this and River McRae knows exactly what that feels like, and he's doing what he can to minister to those who are struggling with this so River McRae. Thank you very very much for being a part of the program they welcome to the program.

Thank you Peter at the pleasure to be with you and your tell me your journey. First they were going to get into how this is an been unfolding over your life and of your ministry what God is called to tell us your journey. First, I have an interesting story right out of Bible college about broken arrow Oklahoma at the opportunity to join a character organization, character treatment branches of America not part of. All with an opportunity to be part of their pastoral care team very young in its origin that I was asked by the organization to somehow create an atmosphere in an environment where spirituality and faith was very much part of the clinical experience of all cancer patients and their caregivers if they were so inclined info began almost 3 decades ago. Now working inside a clinical environment with cancer patient to ban three years ago I had the opportunity where I was diagnosed with early stage colon cancer stalled for many years supporting cancer patients and their caregivers praying with supporting them all through a very difficult scenarios and situations. I have the opportunity to walk that walk along with talking the talk info. As of today I'm doing well on my prognosis is fantastic. But I do certainly have a very different vantage point. Now knowing what it feels like to be told the words that you have captivated a journey that requires love report and understanding and insight.

What do you feel like has changed with you over these years. As you have spent a lot of time with cancer patients and their families. What is change for you from that young right out of Bible college student to now and how have you grown adapted what what would you learn about God's provision. What are some insights that has happened over these last several years for you that is a great question ghetto fresh out of Bible college, you know you're you're young you're frisky and you're ready to preach that you know you write a call about it.

All fire from heaven. That, etc. but the reality was that I had to learn how to really exercise patient working with the cancer community, I often tell people cancer journey is in many cases it's a marathon and not a sprint, and a coursework condition that pastors and and in our faith community. You know we are there for, give instantaneous messages that explication and you know and see the power of God do it and complete scenario, the situation in a much more quicker fashion but hospital healthcare ministry to care outpatient cancer patient requires diligent and patient and really long-suffering that one of the reasons why there are not many people who are very engaged in cancer care ministry because it requires a commitment of time so I have to learn how to be patient and to work with and work through the scenario of supporting cancer patient that that took time.

In many cases all for depth of the change. Your progression could be there through the thick and thin than the grind of the day a week a month in the year if you will know as a recipient of a lot of pastoral care. Over the years in hospital. A lot of pastors would come in hot to the written or to us in and by that I mean lately. They come in in their wave and prayer Clawson and prophesied in the element Scripture in everything in the brother. What if you learned over the years about approaching a room suffering proximately corrected and if you lack of understanding and knowledge with regard to coming into an environment and not being part of the environment at the huge delineation and you're exactly right. In many cases, cancer patients are mentally, emotionally, and fervently but physically they are suffering through prospect being poked being prodded of being medicated. No enduring enough significant procedures and so one of the things that's important to understand and I hope that there for pastors and faith leaders there listening to me today is really understanding the fact that coming into an environment of suffering deftly requires a different case a different rhythm in a different candidate. You know, not just, walking through the front door and and and count on doing what you're used to doing a portrait on a Sunday morning because in many cases, The patient simply mentally mostly of physically are not able to even engage with that type of rev of their tired or exhausted it all their attention span.

You know Wayne innovate their fleet feet. Their tired so what units really what I have to understand with regard to that.

I remember my first couple experiences nor came in and what kind of a fiery equitation gift that you articulated in two minutes and salute to that patient was sound asleep and it wasn't because I was boring. It was because they were tired and they were medicated and so they simply drifted off. So it's really understanding the form of allowing the patient to drive the bus if there's nothing else that outbreak today is that we need to allow the patient to dictate the time the temple what they want to talk about what we come in without we have brought you home on the Scriptures and thought that no prophecy that may very well not be the thing that the patient is ready for or interested in hearing but we never got to take have to find out what what they wanted to hear what they want to talk about what was on their heart.

We must allow every Catholic patient to drive the bus at dictate the folded temple of the conversation and that may take several visits us to really establish a report in relationship that is meaningful for them and we do make mistakes coming off the street hot as you said we need to really adjust that when my wife first lost her right leg is Vincent. She lost her left leg is wheeled this back in 1991 and this young man came in and he was trying to be helpful. Use of peer support kind of guy he really wanted be helpful. Never forget this and he wanted to hurt you know to not feel afraid of the statement see a prosthetic leg and so forth so showed her his prosthetic foot he had one below the knee. Just like hers and she had not been fitted yet for prosthesis but his foot little like he had tied it up behind the car drug it down the road for a while and then shut it with the 12gauge published posttest beat up Peter and Gracie would Gracie was just like she just burst into tears is like this is what I would have to wear kind of thing again.

Of course it was. It and it she was A great legs but it it's one of those things where he was showing things like that it is you caution people about not sharing horror stories of previous persons with cancer and things like that. Not overpowering people was open. Unpack that a little bit absolutely perfect for both.

I would encourage that that individual you need to upgrade his prosthetic if you going to show it to someone number one exactly right. One of the early principle of of of hospital ministry that I learned is, do not share or stories or overwhelm or overpower a cancer patient or anyone in the healthcare scenario. Again, they simply may not be mentally prepared already for that and SPF believers in heaven and that Christian ministers right we have we have great incentive, but our attention can be poorly received because we don't understand the dynamic of where that person is one of the great things about the ministry of Jesus is that he he always came down to the level of where people were he didn't try to bring people up to where he was at the great example. The woman at the well is probably one of my favorite stories because he came down on her level.

He understood all her social dynamics.

The other you know that the climate and the scenario of her backdrop of her story and he met her where she was at the we have to meet patient where they are in order to do that, we first have to do a little of a clear unique understand we need to hear from them first before we delve into many of us go into the hospital setting with countable choreographed script of how we're going to address.

Start a conversation that is the first major mistake that we make you throw your script out you don't have a script you come in with a blank slate, and you allow that patient felt that the tall of what it is that they want what they desire and where they are willing get ready to go and you cannot do that by just walking in the front door know that we have the expiration of the Holy Spirit, but we need to take time to allow that individual unpack something. How are you feeling today how are things going for you and allow them to try to give you some comfort from messaging point for being you can be against attack all or address but you're going yearly discount looming what someone needs to be here. If he is is a mistake. We need to allow the patient to give us a spirit of the directive if they want us to go into that will require some time and that will require inventory and that will require stability of the patient. You are my favorite versus Job 213 cities phrase came in the set with him quiet for seven days because I so suffering was great and all too often today. People know how to be quiet with somebody for seven minutes and well it's it's okay it's okay to just come sit with people is there is the greatest availability. One of the biggest things that people share with me and have here with me about cancer patient porting them in my don't know what to say.

I'm not sure what I should say or not say in this particular case being present goes a very long way. Drug availability can be your greatest ability when you don't know what else to say. Be present, be available completely silent and allow the wall to dictate the tone of the temple perfectly fine to absolutely were talking with Rev. Percy McRae.

He is a discovery podcast, health, hope and health, hope and talks among come back from the break, Mrs. Peter Rosenberger. This is hope for the caregiver. Healthy caregivers make better caregivers in this program is designed to help equip you to be held will be right as a caregiver.

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Isn't it about time someone started advocating for you, an independent associate to hope here is that that's associate need to know that I go back and listen to this love that voice. Hopefully hope for the we're talking 11 Percy McRae and he has an extraordinary minister ministry to cancer patients and their caregivers at Cancer treatment centers of America and can go and learn more about human health, hope and

Hope you will you get wonderful insights on what it's like to minister to this very very difficult Valley as Gracie was singing in the in the valley of the shadow of death in the valley of the shadow of death is very frightening and sometimes very long place and we as believers are called to go in there with people. That's the whole point to to go into those dark places, and as he was same for the break. Sometimes it will be on what to say that's okay Scripture does what, you don't have to worry about that.

You just show up some is just one time about a ministry to the two folks are suffering an essay will is the three asses. You sit up you put on the righteousness of Christ.

You show up and you shut up the tickets and not show up, shut up, you don't have to fix this, but companionship believing praying companionship. During this is what people are crying out for and River McRae is is been has been blazing the trail for for many people for a long time been doing this I wanted to be just a hair River McRae and talk a little bit about the two people in the room with you when you going to see the cancer patient and you look around the room and there's a family member so forth. What is your was your head and heart go when you turned them A great question because in many cases if you're visiting as a minister after all, or church member of the first payment you need to be aware of who's who in the Mughals in the world who else within the environment. You need to take stock of the of the temperature of the role the climate and you certainly need to befriend whoever else within the world. Yes, should bear the patient but you also need to try to establish quickly as you possibly can with whatever amount of time that you may have some sort of quick rapport with their visitors and and acknowledge them.

I see many people walk into a role with the patient and completely ignore their caregivers of their other visitors that it's very it's very offputting. Quite frankly, assault you need to establish you know what's going on. There may have been some type of very deep emotional conversation that was being taken place for interaction with that of the person so you need to understand the temperature of the water that you're entering into so that you do not create any type of weird energy because you need to understand that there something else going on there. So what you're hearing your heart needs to be a first acknowledgment hello my name is thoughtful for so and you are and allow that individual to try to give you a sense of it's okay for you to come in and be part of what were doing right now. I screamed edits unintentional. I see people who have been unintentionally virtually and disregard of wealth is in the room. I give you a great example. I entered into a patient told that bit relationship with his dad was there to see him and his dad was of another spiritual orientation and that the belief that this is my dad River McRae who I've been telling you about and I want you to tell him why he needs to get going again and his dad look with a certain look like if you dare go down that road a thought immediately.

What idea it is that I did, I did just the opposite of what the Fed asked me to do. I befriended his father. I ingratiated him I told him how much his father loved him and spoke about him and how it was such a pleasure to meet him and I was so glad that he was there and it diffused his defensive posture, even immediately, because he was not ready or willing to have that discussion at that moment and time for you must understand intake assessment again using the metaphor of who's who in the zoo their wealth within the environment that you can respond and react accordingly. Part of being able to do that involves a skill set that some people may not think they haven't some people consciously don't have but clearly you do when did you discover that you can read the room.

That's a great question. You're right, I came with with with the ability of the acumen to do that based upon the previous work that was involved in it and people who are listing will affect if they won't be the connection at all, but I used to be a car salesman in my previous life before I got into the ministry part of being an effective salesperson is the ability to create report and relationship and understand the dynamics of the people that are sitting in front of you before you do delve into trying to sell them something of the five principal refills. The ship is all. If this first introduction create report relationship gang common ground asked the needs of the customer and then you make a failed but you cannot do principle number five and you've done one through four. SOI came to to to that environment. With that background or that you feel fit your previous point everyone can learn how to do that if they understand the psychological movement and steps of that and why it is important because you cannot fail or present anything to anyone who you first have not properly introduced yourself to you've gave some type of relationship every four with nor have you asked for. Found out what their needs are. So when you when you understand the psychological spirit that there anyone can beget a gap that their life and to the personality where then you can begin to learn how to read. If you will the world or the environment you hello how God uses all of our life experiences. He's he's a carpenter. He doesn't even waste so this doesn't have to. I deliver my first job that I was when I was a teenager and it was cleaning horse stalls and my brother say I'm still in a sometimes in the same job description and I know what I have four brothers and NIR and about Fritz, Tommy, Betsy.

They had big pig farm in South Carolina and I've never had to clean it. Big stalls out and everything else in the they still laugh at me for that, and they listen to this program and they can but you know what you learn a lot when you cleaning up stall and I just learned a lot about learn a lot about life with your scraping pig manure off of the cuff of the barn floor and you learn what you don't want to be doing for the rest of this. This is something I've see when people come into our room and they don't realize the dynamics going on before they open the door to that room and you know agree she's there like this particular stretch. She was just over 10 weeks with that's her whole world is that room she can't get up and move around. She can't do anything without help and she is locked up in that room and it doesn't matter how many flowers you put in there. How many cards are you know how many times I swung by Chick-fil-A to bring your big gallon.

Sweetie we don't have Chick-fil-A in Montana when we do Way up in Casper.

I think I have but there's not anyone there's no Chick-fil-A within five hours of us and and she's a southern girl and she likes sweet tea and so you know don't matter how many times a song by brother so much that you still in that room, and dark thoughts can overtake people and when somebody comes in hot. They gotta be aware of what just may have happened and give the example of that what you respond.

This is pretty much a passion been one for 50 years in right out of seminary collect when you were with Balko's he was going to go on a pastoral visit with guy that was because of his pastoral mentor and he never done anything like this before. He said I'm going to go visit the cancer patients guys had a pretty rough go of it. I just will prepare you for tubes and smells and still be pretty rough and kinda gave them up gave a good preparation for and my friend said in this study by using it when it was happened is that he it was done in Miami area and he said pullover and the guy was the mama friend at the time was only maybe 22 years old and get out of the car and threw up by the side of the road. Any he had even gotten to the hospital yet figured out that he was that nervous about it and and I get there and so I think that's the level of up but he watched as his mentor walked in. It was just you know is old hat.

Well it is old hat if you done it before. The first time is going to be a little weird little bit nervous, and even feel unsure of yourself and this is where we lean on the word of God and we we saturate ourselves with that talk about that with you because I know there been times and you got into this and you were feeling unsure or uncertain scared nervous, awkward, all those kinds of things and you look at family members who maybe have red eyes because they do sit in the corner crying over there, they just they did, they just had an argument I don't have you ever walked in on a couple just had a fight absolutely without a doubt told Ariel that all of the things that you get articulated is real-time scenario of going into a hospital healthcare environment and not saying all those and get up and so with that being said, you are exactly right. The key to this. First and foremost is whatever it is that you thought you knew or understood about that dynamic is just 88, a mirror of small tinkling all of whatever that reality is they are yet there are smell you. You may even actually visibly see something that will be offputting. Someone with you know some of their faith. This thing or their throat. I witnessed a person bleed out with. Because of the carotid artery that ruptured right in my presence, etc., etc., and salt. This is where your white person foremost, you're going to have to be beat and grounded and rooted in the love of God in order to be the humanity compromise on the level where there may be disfigurement for there may be unpleasant sounds that you will hear a cancer patient makes growing NK and etc." the primary dynamic that that work here is that you need to first be prayed up.

You need to be fully. I tell people to follow, I do all of our training thought when I was doing that writing for training churches and pastors how to do hospital and in cancer care ministry is that at the end of the day you're going to have to be completely aware of the fact that you may see and hear something that you've never seen or heard before and that is going to have to not be the deciding dynamic why you are there grid bear because you are leaning into the love and the hope of the faith of God that today I want to hand Jesus and what would you do in this situation, which will help the ground moment make good words and I've got one more series of questions I would put you on the lightning ran for the next Christopher Christie this is Tina Rosenberg. This is a hope for the caregiver were talking with Rev. Percy McRae and he is bringing an extraordinary journey in ministry to help minister to families cancer, not just patient the whole family and health, hope and inspiration is his website podcast particular computer Rosenberger many years ago when my wife Grace became a AA PT. She sold the importance of quality prosthetics.

He saw the importance of the support team and people that could help her regain her life after losing both legs.

She had this vision of creating an organization that would help others do the very same thing while pointing them to Christ and for more than 17 years we been doing just that we purchase supplies.

We send equipment and we trained recent teams over to West Africa. We've been working with the country of Ghana. Several clinics over there now and each week more people walk because of Gracie's vision 2011.

We watched the new program outreach to family caregivers. Drawing on my mail 36+ years as Gracie's caregiver through medical nightmare for insights of learned all of it the hard way to fellow caregivers to help them stay strong and healthy will take care of some is not. You would be a part of this go out to stand study with Help us do more steady without reaching the wound and those steady We hope you Rosenberger is the program that is here.

My interview with him, podcast, and hopefully see that there's a great interview told by his father gives father with Parkinson's and then cancer and there is a treasure at the end of this narrow road were traveling in and we all deal with various things along that road that are very painful and that's what I'm very grateful that I have driven Percy McRae here with us today. He's been with us for 20 years. 20+ years in cancer care ministry and he has a lot of resources available free the door to his website, health, hope and you can download some musings if you feel that you are led to to minister specifically, this area with cancer patients were all called to minister to others. Jesus was very clear on that sick naked, hungry, thirsty prison. He's pretty clear on and there's no ambiguity indicating to you what part did he stutter in. He didn't he he was very clear on this but some people may not recall specifically to this with cancer ministry, but if you feel this is Ted tugging at your heart. This is the man you want to go talk to and get some insights from him. River McRae I wanted to build on some the things were told that in the last segment. Often times, family members are struggling with with the multitude of things and they they have to go through their own journey with it and do you find that a lot of them are trying to apologize for or cover up or they're embarrassed about what their love is going through or whatever sounds of whatever's going on in the room and all that kind of stuff.

I know you have, how do you help ease them through that process. How do you help them calm down and just be okay that your data with your absolutely right. The caregiver often have very significant dynamics of their work mentally and emotionally. Caregivers need to be here for. We need to remember that and part of that is in many cases, you may actually need to do some separate ministry to the caregiver out of the president of the patient themselves. Many caregivers are postured to be in a protective mode at the BNI mode of strength because they don't want to kick the patient that there caring for to feed them vulnerable. But if you are able to pull them aside and have some private time with them, then you are able, in many cases to try to get beneath the veneer of that and and really get into some of the dynamics of what they're going through. And you are right in many cases they are embarrassed, maybe even ashamed of their trying to protect and cloak a scenario, but in many cases, cancer a particular cancer patient.

Caregivers are also struggling with guilt. In some cases, was it my fault. What did I do all how did that and extracted to this person's life, but they are also dealing with issues.

Maybe that may require some forgiveness some confession and so you need to be able to be sensitive to the fact that the caregiver may have some very unique dynamics that separate from the patient themselves that needs to be minister to and can you build report relationship and trust.

Without that will allow them to account up or down the veneer analog have access to some of their mental, emotional and spiritual needs, but they do and they are struggling and in many cases they are not being addressed well. Thank you for that because as one who has not been addressed that that is refreshing to hear because people don't know what to say to the caregiver, either their times in my journey with this that I've encountered people with with pretty brutal stuff and grace enough course no stranger to it, but sometimes there are some things I encounter this intensely more brutal at that moment than than what we live with and we so there's some at Walter Reed.

We spent a lot of time with wounded warriors and so forth. But there's other times of talk to people in a afterwards. I just have to take a knee you know and and I'm and I I have to go off by myself and just catch my breath and taken me can you share maybe one of those times with you.

That was just so difficult that you you had to dig deep into God for this out there been many occasions admitting that I can recall very vividly. A rather young woman, 28, 20 years of a beautiful and she was experiencing end-stage processes with her cancer and she was with her mom. She looked up at me and with beautiful blue eyes and hear coming out of her eyes.

She said let McRae please help me to understand why is it so hard to get healed and and it broke me down it. It literally took everything that I have looked at me to stand their love upon her to hug her and idea what we needed to do.

I provided her with ministry in there when I left out of her presence. I nearly have to go out of the building and will get my car just to regroup and we gather after hearing this just beautiful young woman who basically was at the stages of passing away. Actually the most difficult question I've ever that I would never ask that with my it is so difficult to get healed and did I have the privilege of officiating her. Her funeral and I remember my legs feeling like rubber at the podium 3000 people there waiting to hear what I have to say that I said what if you don't speak for me today.

I don't know that I be able to do this. It was just so emotionally difficult, but yes if the people who are in this industry for lack of a better word ministry is a dynamic that is cough, compassion fatigue that we have to be my awful love that we have to to be intentional about in terms of taking respite and disconnecting when appropriate, so that we can be rejuvenated. Just as Jesus did most of his time Jesus spent time alone after he spent time with the crowds ministering and feeding an end and an administrator of the flock. He said that he would slip away quietly where he could count and rejuvenate and allow the Holy Spirit to reinvest back up the hill, energy and strength, and powerful. There been many times not have to do that and just simply get quiet and stealing the fit across the street in the park discounted gather my thoughts absolutely you know in the last few moments of life.

He did do a little bit deeper on that one because I have working belief that true ministry will cost you something every time. If you walk in a way from a sermon or ministry counter and you're just ready go just have good time just, you know, yuck it up with everybody else. You kinda have to wonder how it affected 40 because true ministers really gonna cost you, and you do need to slip away quietly.

You didn't need to have a few moments just to collect your thoughts in your heart because you're pouring out your heart in your your joining with the sufferings of Christ, which is looking at this broken world and seeing it for what it is.

Jesus looked out over the masses. He was moved and it II think that the more we walk with Christ in this, the more we share in the sufferings and sharing that compassion that he had and also that Groening that he had over the brokenness of all of this and so in the last just a few moments would you just talk a little bit about that of the cost of ministering to people who are suffering and their families in that the what what what sin even though your legs a rubber what seed you to that pulpit will send you back the next hospital room while you you are about that correct anyone that is truly called to the ministry of the service of humanity on behalf of the kingdom of God. They will have to invest they will have to give up something in order to do that to do it effectively and do it well and I also pastor a church for many years. Also while I was also working in the catheter community and I remember one day that I have to come to terms with the fact that I couldn't do both because of the mental and emotional and physical exhaustion and just good good deposit that have to be made on a consistent basis and understanding that you don't just get the skip through another to list an" affirmative and Danielle's finger him and then you receive an offering and you go home that that you carry those people with you, they are there parts of you that you believe that you and the fast in the stuff in the hearts of the souls of those that you come in contact with and they they are part of your being.

So there is a cost and if so I believe the apostle Paul said it best that I have been I have met and been spent for you. I have spent all that I have for you in and giving you the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ and so there is a cost to be paid their art, you know you can't cough on that river without paying the toll itself, or any young minister that is listening to me today.

There is a cost to be paid it's worth it at the end of the day for sure. There's no question about it. I wouldn't do anything differently but you will you will have to him that part of who you are your my goal on your emotions so people have said to me at times that your you to to serious or too melancholic and not have to tell people but at the end of the day. I carry the burden of hurt and dying world. And like the compassion of Christ.

You can't just walk and see that it experienced that and just go and sit down and say that everything is okay that that is going to impact human. It should impact you and it should leave some sort of marker scar upon you at all talked about his stripes that he received their stripes that we received for the calling for the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Start with a ministry to the stuff to the heart of the sick edge of the bank would know what the end of the day that there is no greater call work having been that and that you will be rewarded for that and I'm grateful that God called me faithful and I try to live up to that at home if you you very much Rev. Percy McRae, health, hope and he's got resources available for you.

Please go out and take a look at what he's doing.

Get involved.

Cancer treatment centers of America is where he's been ministering and he is doing. This is on the frontline of this to people who suffer and their families test McRae. Thank you for being part of the program. I really do appreciate thank you my friend and I look forward thinking they dispute arose.

Did you know that you can recycle used prosthetic limbs know.

Can we been doing this at steady with hope since 2005 or six years I did it myself out of our garage and sometimes on colder nights of sit by the fire, nor did he not be surrounded by a bunch of prosthetic legs that have come from all of the country that would disassemble them and store the feet the pylons the needs the adapters the screws all those things. It can be re-salvaged and repurposed to build a custom fit leg and wonderful organization in Nashville partnered with us to help take it out of my garage in my den and into a better system. This is core civic core that they are the nation's largest owner of partnership correctional detention and residential reentry facilities and they have a lot of faith-based programs and I'm proud to say that standing with hope is one of those programs and has been there for over a decade inmates volunteer to help us disassemble those used prosthetic limbs. Reports show the inmates who go through faith-based programs are better equipped to go back into society and the recidivism rate of return back to prison is so low they don't want to come back in society doesn't want to come back and faith-based programs are a big part in that something that core civic really believes in, and we are so thrilled that standing with hope is one of those programs remove first-time started inmate looked at me said I'm never done anything positive with my hands until I started doing this program stating without another inmate told me he said I never thought of people with disabilities until I started doing this and this is an extraordinary partnership and very moving to see this see we can do so much with these materials but a lot of family members have a love on the passes away. They don't know what to do with the Linda keep it in the closet or sometimes even worse to throw it away. Please don't let that happen. Please send it to us standing with hope stayed with steady with and let's give the gift that keeps on walking

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