Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

If you want to give me a call, we have five open lines, 8772072276. So just some trivia stuff. I'm thinking about starting my, or trying to finish my second novel in a series of The Influence, and I know people have been asking me for years to do that. I'm thinking about it more seriously now. That's one thing. I had a discussion today with some atheists, and let me tell you, when you discuss things with atheists, you find that they're obstreperous, difficult to follow, accuse you of all kinds of stuff, are disingenuous, in my opinion, in their approach to logic at a double standard, and it's really bad. However, there's a little bit of a shining light. I had an encounter with an atheist today, very polite, and when I made a logical point, instead of all atheists just saying, no, it's not true, and he goes, no, folks, it's true, come on, he's making his one point, let's move on.

It was really a breath of fresh air. He's still an atheist, you know, but it was nice, so not all atheists are obstreperous individuals, and that's okay, so I had fun there. And let's see, tonight I'm going to do a Patreon video. I'm going through a series on Patreon, Patreon Matt Slick, on the nature of God. Actually, no, I'm doing apologetics. I'm going through an outline. I have an apologetics, and I've been working on this for quite a while, and let's see, it is, my outline is 68 pages of material, and so what I've been doing is going through this stuff slowly, methodically, alphabetically.

So the topics aren't always related from week to week, but that's what I'm doing, so if you want to participate in that, just go to Patreon.com and check it out. And let's see, what else, what else, there's something else, you know, I've got to remember what it is, but sometimes I just have trouble remembering, but that's okay. Oh, there's another bit of something, I'm supposed to have a little discussion slash debate on, let's see, Saturday, 3 p.m. Eastern time, with a guy who is, he's a Unitarian. And Unitarianism said there's only one person, the Godhead, and it was last night, I went and saw Batman last night, oh man, that's a good movie. I really liked it.

I was really impressed by it. But before that, I was talking to some people, and I actually forgot what I was just going to say. You know, when you're 65, it happens. No big deal. Hey, why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276, we have nobody waiting right now, I want to hear from you. If you're a newbie, listening to this show, you're not sure what's going on, I'm a Christian apologist, my real name, last name is Slick, and it worked great for Radio Matt Slick Live. So if you want to give me a call, I have a question on, let's see, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity Baha'i, Islam, Catholicism, let's see, Christian Doctrine, Theology, and all kinds of stuff. I love talking about stuff like that, I love doing that.

It's a real privilege to be able to do that. All right, now, okay, so what do you guys think of what's happening in the world right now? You see, I've been following a lot of different sources of information, and I'm getting a little concerned because it looks like, maybe some of you know things, you can help me out with this, but it looks like that there are some troops being moved, I'm going to turn my phone down, I always forget to do this at the beginning of the show. Troops are being moved inside, from the states, over to that area that's having conflict. And they're being moved away from Afghanistan, and other people, it's very generically, other nations are starting to move equipment and troops towards Ukraine.

And so that's very concerning, because those are the makings of a serious war, and I hope it doesn't happen. And that brings me to the issue of what's happening with our supply chain. And so, you know, I recommend that people prepare for shortages and things like that.

If you go to the stores, you know that's there. The reason I'm bringing it up is simply because, you know, we do everything here on the radio. We answer all kinds of questions, we talk about this kind of stuff as well.

The Bible does say to store up food for the lean times, very biblical to do, and so I don't recommend hoarding and panicking. But as fathers, and if you're the head of the house, but as fathers, we're called to prepare. And you can do that, there's a lot of information out there on the web on how to do that, so that you can, you know, get stuff and things like that to be prepared.

So, just generic stuff, if you want to talk about that, you can give me a call, we can do that. But nevertheless, let's get to James from Colorado. James, welcome, you're on the air. Yes sir, thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Real quick question, I've been Christian for a while, unfortunately I shouldn't study anymore. And I came across some teachings that were kind of foreign to me.

I never really looked into it, and shame on me. But reading Genesis chapter 6 about the sons of God, I was just wondering what's your take on that? And how the Tower of Babel fit into the sons of God. You know, and obviously the fall of man, chapter 3, Genesis chapter 3.

Chapter 11, I'm sorry, I'm kind of going through different stuff, maybe chapter 10 or chapter 11 of Genesis, it talks about, seems like, just to give you a summary of what I'm getting at, that God is loud. He started dealing with Abraham alone, right? And that he gave the authority, if you want to use that word on us, that's proper, over the other parts of the world, like the Gentile world. And that only Israel would be God's portion.

And the sons of God. Hold on, hold on. I'm not sure what you're getting at, because you're talking about different things, different chapters. I'm sorry. That's alright.

What's your question though? Most, what I'm trying to get at is the sons of God in Genesis chapter 6, do you think those are human beings? Are they angels? Or are they something else? Okay. Or the other spiritual created beings? For example, the word Elohim. Let me answer the question.

Let me jump in and answer. So the issue here in Genesis chapter 6, well, who's the sons of God? And it says in verse 1, It came about when men began to multiply in the face of the land and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and they took for themselves wives.

And so the Jews and the Christians always taught that the sons of God there were fallen angels and that they came and had relations with women and produced offspring called the Nephilim. Okay? Right.

Okay. Yep. That's what I hold to.

And that's what you hold to. Yes. When you see the word Elohim, for example, do you in the Bible, is it concern only God, you know, God's Father, God, you know, the Trinity. Put it that way if you want to say it, you know. Or does Elohim can be used in other cases? Or other, in a sense, other gods, in a sense.

You know what I'm saying? Elohim means what it means in different contexts. And it's used of the single God, it's used of false gods, it's used of unrighteous judges.

That's what it is. It has what's called a semantic domain, a variety of meanings in different contexts. So, you can't say, what does it mean? Well, it means different things in different contexts, you know. And so, in a particular context, we look at it.

Okay. I'm trying to think of the, I think it's Psalms chapter 80. 82.6, the sins of God, and things like that, and others. And he talks about, I should have looked this up before I called you, talks about God, you know, our God.

You know, Jesus, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, whatever. And he chastises the other sons of God. You have to give me references to be able to look at that to see.

Because a lot of times what people remember is not really what the Bible is saying. I'm not saying it's the case here, but I always like to verify by looking at the picture. Yeah. Okay. And I just stumbled across to you, actually what I was doing is, I take it you would know Bob Inyart, right? What, know who what?

You would know Bob Inyart, right? No. No, you don't?

No. Because I've seen that you guys were going to have a, well, anyway. If we have debates with people, I'm saying I don't remember all people's names, you know, and so I forget names.

I'm good with numbers, but I forget people's names. It happens. So, we're supposed to have a discussion debate, is that it? Well, what's interesting is, something Duffy and you were going to have a debate in December, but it didn't say what year. Duffy and I had a discussion debate years ago, and I flew out to where we were, and we had a discussion, and Will Duffy, yeah.

And let's just say, we could have done better. And the gentleman I'm thinking about, his name is Michael, I think, Heisner? Heisner. Heisner. Heisner. Yeah. Yes. And Unseen Realm is his book, and I was kind of thumbing through it.

That's what I'm getting. Okay, let me tell you what the biblical position is. Michael Heisner and others are making mistakes in some other areas. The biblical position, there's only one God in all existence, all place, and all time. And you can verify this in Isaiah 43, 44, and 45.

You know, three chapters, it clearly teaches, you go through and you read that, there's a lot of references in there. No God created before, none created after, doesn't even know of any other gods. The word Elohim is used in Psalm 82 of false individuals, false teachers. They have power of life and death, and so they're called gods and things like this.

So the word has what's called a semantic domain, a range of meaning in different contexts. And that's all that's going on. Some people have said, you know, the council of the gods. Oh, now there's a real council. Well, how can there be a council of gods if God says there aren't any other gods? He says very, very clearly. He says, is there any other god besides me?

I know of none. And God is very clearly saying this. So what he's doing in those other places is he's saying, of all the gods that are there, he's the true God. And the Jewish mind would understand what he was saying. There are many that are called God, as Galatians 4, 6 through 8, I believe it is, says, that are called God but are not by nature gods.

Where is that? Not by nature gods. And let's see. I asked someone to put it in the text. It's been a long time since I quoted it. There are references to other gods, but they're not true gods. And so the Bible talks about them and things like that. That's all that's going on there, okay?

Yeah. And I'm not saying that he was saying that they are actual. What he's saying is they're not actual fallen angels.

They're just a spiritual being that are God-created. Okay, we'll get a break. So hold on. See if you can go for a minute of questions while we get back, okay? Hey, folks, we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back, everyone.

If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get back on the phone with James from Colorado. James, all right, you got that question formulated? Yeah, it was Psalms 82 is what it was. Right.

If you want to read it, it'd probably be better. Well, what's your question about? God has taken place in his divine counsel in the midst of the gods. Mm-hmm. He holds judgment. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Now, he says he holds judgment in the midst of the gods. Okay, what's your question? I got that. I'm very familiar with this, so what's your question? Well, what I'm trying to get at is I know you said Isaiah, what, 43, 44, 45, there's only one God. And I believe that, obviously, you know, Jesus is God and he's the only one. Okay.

You know, obviously, trying God. I got you. So what's your question?

However, Elohim is the word used for not just for Yahweh, put it that way, but that actually is the generic, it's a category, in a sense, like human being, it's a category. Okay, what is your question? I keep asking you for a question.

It's like you're trying to teach on my radio show, so I'm just telling you I need to have a question. Okay. The question is Psalms 82, verse 1. What does he mean by the gods he holds judgment? Okay, the answer is simple.

Read the context. God takes his stand in his own congregation. He judges in the midst of the, so to speak, gods or the rulers, could be understood.

How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? So it's an imprecatory psalm. An imprecatory psalm means that God, or the psalmist, is wishing harm upon someone. It's like saying, God, get them.

He goes on here, vindicate the weak, rescue the needy, et cetera. They do not know or understand, they walk about in darkness, all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said ye are gods, ye are all sons of the most high, nevertheless ye will die like men and fall like any one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth. The context is this is written to the unrighteous judges of Israel when there was no king, and they were judges.

And they were unrighteous. They're referenced poetically, because this is poetry, poetically as gods. But he says, nevertheless, you're going to die like men. Gods don't die, right?

So that's what's going on there. It's an imprecatory psalm against the unrighteous judges of Israel, and that's what that is. Okay. So do you think the giants were Nephilim? Do you understand what I said about Psalm 82? Let's focus. Yes, I do.

Okay. Do I believe that? Now, that's a different topic when you go back to Genesis chapter 6. Were they giants, the Nephilim? Yes, that's correct, they were large. And do you think it's possible that they survived after the flood? No. So not after the flood, but how did they come back?

They were all destroyed by the flood, and most probably what happened is the procedures to get them there continued after the flood. Yeah. Did this again. I was just wondering how you were thinking. Can I ask one more question? Yeah, if you can.

Is it alright? When Jesus said, I think it's Matthew chapter 16, and upon this rock I'll build my church, do you think he literally meets himself? Obviously, I don't think it's Peter.

I was hot and red. I believe he's the rock. Or do you think it's the actual mountain that he's on?

In that Capernaum? Okay, so the word Peter is petros in the Greek. The word rock is petra. Petros means a small rock, and petra means a large mass. And so it says, you are Peter the small rock, but upon the large humongous rock I'll build my church, is what's going on. And that word petra, which is rock, is in the feminine.

The word petros is in the masculine in the Greek. You are petros, that's masculine, but upon this rock, feminine, I'll build my church. Now the word rock there in the feminine is used in reference to Jesus. In 1 Corinthians 10, 4, when it says the rock that followed them in the wilderness was Jesus, was Christ. So what it's doing, what Jesus is doing is saying that Peter isn't the rock that's going to be built upon, but he's using a different, he's using a pun, and he's saying it will be on this rock. You are Peter, and on this rock I'll build my church. It doesn't say on you, but upon this rock. He's saying you are the actor, and upon the actress, I'll build my church. That's the kind of a thing that's happening in the gender, though not exact. So it's not Peter. The Catholics make this mistake repeatedly.

It's Matthew 16, 18. Okay? Yeah.

All right. So you're saying Christ is the rock that he's building his church, is that what you're trying to say? Yes. In Greek, nouns have gender or neutrality. It can be masculine, feminine, or neuter, and when rock, when different words have different meaning and different context, that's what's going on, and the feminine form doesn't mean that Jesus is feminine, but the idea of a large mass of rock is a feminine gender. That's all it is.

Rock doesn't have gender, but in that language, it's just used in the gender sense, and it says, and that rock, that huge thing is Jesus, because that's what it says that Jesus is in 1 Corinthians 10, 1 through 4. Okay? All right. Thank you.

Have a good day. All right, man. Okay. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Dave from North Carolina. Dave, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi. How you doing? Doing fine. How are you doing?

Hi. What I told your screener on, I have a part-time boss, and he's a Jehovah's Witness, and he of course believes in just one God. He does not believe in the Trinity, and I've tried to reason with him, and I cannot get through to him how it's the Trinity. How do you talk to a Jehovah's Witness? Well, it takes practice, and it takes knowledge. It takes training. You're just going to have to do that. Okay. I just don't have enough knowledge. Right.

Okay. That's pretty much general. What I would suggest is to ask him if it's okay to go to a Kingdom Hall with him, just to go check it out.

And the reason is because you will then find out what you're up against. What they do, I haven't been for years, but what they used to do, and I would go there and check them out. They all did the same thing all the time, and they've changed it. But what they did was they would have someone get up and open the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society magazine, the Watchtower magazine. They would have a Bible up there, their particular Bible, and then they would read out of the Watchtower, and then it would instruct them what to go to the Bible and look at, and then it would tell them what the Bible meant. And then they would say, see? For an example, it would say something like, Jesus is not God, because Jesus says the Father is greater than he is. So if the Father is greater than he, how can he be God?

He'd be equal to God. Let's go to John 14.28, where Jesus says the Father is greater than I. And they would do this in the article. And they'd say, go to John 14.28, you'd see it.

So there he says the Father is greater than he, therefore he's not God. Then they go to the next thing. What they're doing is proof texting. They're not reading things in context. They're not reading how the Bible teaches various things. And they just proof text. And so this is what you're up against.

And they do this, Jehovah's Witnesses are required to go to their studies once, twice a week, on years at a time. So they're trained, you're not. Back on the break, I'll tell you a little bit more about this. Okay?

This is important. Hey folks, we have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show.

Dave, are you still there? Uh, yes. Okay. So, I was going to say that you need to have some training. You need to study. And you need to be able to articulate the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity of Christ. You have to understand the hypostatic union, justification, imputation.

And this would probably take you a couple of months of study to get them down to where you can repeat them and understand them. And if you go to the Kingdom Hall and you look, you'll see that they're trained. The average Jehovah's Witness can talk circles and argue circles around the average Christian. I found that out in talking with him. He has an answer for absolutely everything.

Yep. That's why I say it's a good idea to go to a Kingdom Hall. Ask him to go. You don't go to argue.

And he's going, oh, of course. And you just say, I'm just curious. And you'll see what you're up against.

You'll see it's a brainwashing cult, is what it is. You'll see that it is. And I've been many, many times. And they're polite, and I don't go there to start trouble.

Just go in and they're there. And when you start at, I've done it before. To him it's just common.

I'm sorry, go ahead. To him, he thinks, to him it's just pure logic that Jehovah's Witness is the correct way to go. Yeah, he thinks that. But there are things that I can direct you to that would be problematic for him. And that he would not be able to answer.

So if you wanted something quick and slick. I haven't looked at your information. What you can do, I'll try this. You can just go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, forward slash cut, C-U-T. And that just will forward you to the page where I have cut and paste information. And you click on the Jehovah's Witness link and there's quick information there.

And it's just meant to be very short. And I actually developed it from me to being able to cut and paste things into chat rooms to demonstrate stuff. And it turns out it became a very useful tool for other things as well. So I recommend you check that out. And then we have a whole section on Jehovah's Witness theology. But it does take training to learn how to refute them.

And of course I've been doing this for a long time so I can deal with them. But the average Christian just, the average Christian does not know the doctrine of the Trinity. How many natures Jesus has.

Is he a man right now? How are we justified? What does justification mean? How about the justification where Jesus says, Jesus says, before Abraham was I Am.

Doesn't that right there refute it? Yes, except that John 8.58, what they do is they translate it to I have been. So they alter the translation. And see the problem is that in Greek, this is what I will do with them. I'll say, look, in the Greek it's ego ami, which is the first person singular present active indicative.

And it means I Am. And they'll say, well, if a good Jehovah's Witness will go to the place where the present active indicative first person singular of the verb to be, ami, is used and translated into the English into the perfect tense, which is I have been. And there's different ways that that can be done. And so then they're knowledgeable to go into that.

And then I have to go into what the perfect tense is with the Greek tense of present tense is and show them that. And then ask questions. Well, then why were they trying to kill him? And then with that, you'd say, OK, the next place they want to throw stones at him was in John 10, 10 through 33. John 10, 30 through 33, excuse me.

And I'll say, what was the reason they're trying to kill him? And these are there are lots of things to say and arguments and it takes skill. It takes practice.

And if you're not doing it very often, you're just not going to get very good at it. And I'm not trying to dissuade you. I'm just saying it does take a little bit of work because these guys in their watchtower and their awake magazines have freed decades and decades and decades. They have been polishing their arguments that Trinitarians have raised and they try to prepare their people to everything.

But I know stuff they cannot get out of. OK, I know. And so one of the things you can do is go to Karm and look up, call upon the name of the Lord. Just do a search for that, because in their Bible, even they, they are actually supporting that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. And they're going to go to King James to support this stuff. Oh, fine. Use King James.

That's fine. Yeah, we see the King James doesn't because you can go to Zechariah 12, 10. You go to Isaiah 9, 6 and I can take them to 1 Corinthians 1, 2 and cross reference it with Psalm 1, 16, 4. See, these are things in my head.

You don't know these. And so J. Dubb says, oh, use King James. Fine, let's use the King James. Go to Genesis 19, 24 and we'll cross reference it with Amos 4, 10 and 11.

And so there's lots of stuff in there. And if you know the verses, of course, I've been doing this for a long, long time. So he's not saying that the NWT is necessary. Good. The New World Translation, NWT is bad. They've altered the word of God.

Just to suit their theological needs. It's bad. It is. So I'm just saying you're going to have to study. You're going to have to. I'm sorry, but you got it.

You can't just wing it. You got to study. Okay. Go to my website. Check it out. All right. Thank you. Okay, man. God bless.

Thank you. All right. Let's get to Keith from Ohio. Hey, Keith. Hey, Keith, before you ask me a question, I got a question for you really fast. Okay. You there? All right.

Go ahead. Am I on the air out there? Because I heard someone say that the station wasn't there anymore. No, it does blink out.

It does blink out for 15, 20 minutes, and then it will come back on. So I am on the air in a radio station out there. Okay. Good. Yes. Channel 106.5.

Dave in Greenville. All right. Well, good. Okay.

Hey, everybody, wait until all the people out there in Ohio. All right. So what's your question? And thanks for answering.

What's your question? All right. My question is in Hebrews 9, 27, and it is appointed for men to die once, but after this, the judgment.

Right. So my question is, when Jesus resurrected Lazarus, where did it – because I've never found it in the Bible anywhere – to where that he died again? Well, he did.

I know you say he did, but I'm saying, is it possible that he could still be alive? No. And the reason is because – From the resurrection?

No. Because he wasn't raised in a glorified body. Jesus is the first one to be raised in a glorified body.

You go to 1 Corinthians 15, 35 through 45, and also Colossians 1, 15. He's the firstborn from the dead. And the firstborn, he's the first one with a resurrected body. So that means that Lazarus was resurrected, but not in a glorified body.

He would have died again. That's all. Okay. Well, see, I have a MacArthur study Bible. And what it takes references to is it goes back to John 43 and 44, but that only gives reference of where Christ raised Lazarus from the dead then. Yeah, the way it works is that Jesus is the firstfruits.

He is the firstfruits, all right? Okay, but what I'm getting at is, do you have to – why was it that Lazarus had to die twice for the other people that Christ raised? I would have thought that when he ascended to heaven that he would have taken them then, changed their – into a glorified body. He did not. I know. Yeah.

It doesn't say that it did. Okay. But I took a look and I've never seen where he died.

Let me help you out, all right? Jesus is the first one to be risen from the dead in a glorified body. The first one. Lazarus was raised. He was not in a glorified body. Therefore, he would have died again. When Jesus comes back to take those and resurrect them into glorified bodies, that's a future event even for now. And the first ones taken are the wicked before the good are taken. That's Matthew 13, 30. So the 500 that were resurrected, according to 1 Corinthians 15, 1 through 5, they would have died also again a second time. And when you go to Hebrews 9, 27, it's appointed to men to die once after – not 26 – it's appointed to men to die once after this is judgment.

What he's saying here is that it's the normative thing. You die. You're just going to die once. Now, that's not to say that there weren't others who were resurrected, because we know that's the case. Yeah.

When there were three that he raised that Jesus raised from the dead? Yeah. Yeah. There were others he raised from the dead as well.

Yeah. And so he did that to demonstrate who he was. But when he's talking in Hebrews, he's talking to the Jews, and the concept in the Jews' mind is you die. You die once. That's it. You die.

You go and you face judgment. And that's the concept he's working with. He's not saying it's an absolute – Yeah. I understand that. Okay. Then. All right. Yeah. I'm just – what I'm saying is that the once part, I would have thought that meant, you know, you can only die once. Yeah.

He's talking about there's only one real death. That's it. Okay? Yeah. All right, buddy. All right. Thanks a lot, Keith. Thank you, sir. Okay.

God bless. Uh-huh. Hey, folks. We have one open line to give you a call.

877-207-2276. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get on the air with Cedric from Raleigh, North Carolina, whom we lost.

Now let's try Mitchell from Charlotte, whom we lost. Let's try Doug from Indiana. Hey, Doug. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

Always a pleasure. I have a question, and it's how does the context of anointing relate to baptism? And the reason I ask before, you know, throughout the years, I worked with two different preachers at actual factories and whatnot, and they actually wanted to anoint me. And I would like to know the reason why and what the difference is between baptism and anointing. Okay. Well, I'm not sure I understand what the connection is with what they were doing.

Yes, me either. But objects and people are anointed, and when an object or a person is anointed, it signifies a calling to that object or that person, as well as that object or person being set apart for a holy use or a special use. So objects in the temple were anointed, and they were cleansed and things like that. And so in Numbers 8, 7, for example, when it's talking about the high priest or the priest and the priestly work, thus you shall do to them for their cleansing, sprinkle purifying water on them, and then let them use a razor over their whole body, wash their clothes, and they'll be clean. So what we see here is that the priest needed to be sprinkled with water. And so it's a symbol of anointing for that holy use. And that's what's going on there. Okay.

So I could actually be a person also. Is that correct? Absolutely.

Absolutely. In fact, in 1 John 2, 27, as for you, the anointing which you received from him abides in you. So you've received an anointing. So people can be anointed. Jesus was anointed, and in my opinion, since he was baptized to fulfill righteousness, that means to fulfill the Old Testament law, and he entered into the priesthood. When you go to Numbers 4, Exodus 8, and no, wait a minute. Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, and Exodus 29.

Boy, it took me a bit there. In those chapters, you see what was necessary for a man to enter into the priesthood. He had to be 30 years of age, just like Jesus was. He had to be anointed with oil, which Jesus was. The representation of the Holy Spirit came upon him. And he had to be sprinkled with water. That's what seems out of Numbers 8. And a verbal blessing given, my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased.

So it looks like that's what was there. And baptism is related to circumcision in Colossians 2-11. And this is not theology that most churches will teach, because they're not used to looking into, let's just say, covenant theology. But it says in Colossians 2-11, In him you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism. So Paul relates, not saying he equates, but relates circumcision and baptism together.

And then when you look at Romans 4-11, it says, Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteous, the faith which he had while uncircumcised. So there we see that it's a seal, and a sign and a seal of something. And so if we're going to be consistent, we could say that baptism is a sign and a seal of something. Well, it depends on what that something is.

We get into various things. So this is covenant language and covenant theology. And so when you're baptized, what you're doing is you're publicly proclaiming a dedication to the Lord. And in my opinion, I believe that baptism is a sign and a seal of what God is doing. So I just found that kind of peculiar because that happened several years apart in two different counties or two different cities, several years apart and two different preachers.

So that just kind of struck me. It also says to anoint the sick. So I've done this where someone is sick, they're already baptized, and I'll take a little bit of oil and put it on my fingertip.

I don't want to make a big mess. I just take it and I just anoint someone, put my hand on their head and pray over them. I've anointed rooms by going into, for once, years ago, there's some odd stuff going around the house. Let's just say that. And so I had my wife take our children and go out and get ice cream or something, you know. And then I went through the entire house and I anointed every wall, every door, every room, and prayed out loud as a symbol of the dedication of this house for the Lord and anointing.

So it was like that. Okay. Well, no, it's because even up to this day, there are several people asking me to give Bible studies, and I'm just an average go-to-a-church-on-Sunday type guy. I just find it kind of peculiar that everybody is asking me that also.

That was just my question. All right. So thank you. You're welcome.

Well, God bless. All right. All right. Talk to you later. All right. Let's get to Monique from North Carolina. Welcome, Monique.

You're on the air. Thank you. And, dear brother, I'm going to ask this question.

If contact is necessary, please tell me. It is something I've questioned before. Just listening to you have a question, but pointedly out of the conversation with dealing with the Jehovah Witness and that even with what the last gentleman or before the last gentleman was saying. What is your process when confronted with someone, this Jehovah Witness or Mormon or someone with a false doctrine, what is your process before you answer them? Obviously, you have to answer them with a word, but do you, to just kind of break that down, do you immediately think of this is what the word says and then start talking? Do you, or do you kind of, Holy Spirit, I know the word. How do I apply this to this person?

Where do I start? What do I go with as far as the direction in answering them? It's a mixture. Because I've been doing this for so many years when someone were to, for example, to quote Acts 2.38 to me as baptism being necessary for salvation, I already have three, four, five things attached to it mentally. I just know. And so I don't have to search for things, so to speak, and come up with something because I already know responses. But then someone might have an answer or question I've not thought of before or had to deal with before, then I'll say, where is that?

Let me see that. What are you saying? And then it's a different process. And it's looking at context. It's seeing if they're being coherent, seeing if their theological position or logical assertion is consistent.

And so, you know, just do things like that and then go through and then apply to other things I've learned. And then a lot of times I pray while someone's saying something, I'll say, Lord, give me an answer, please. I ask for your mercy. Please let my words come forth from you and give me wisdom and insight and I'll do that too. That really answers the question because, and the reason I ask, you were talking about with Jehovah Witness and the guy who didn't know how to answer. And I say, again, in all humility, I would by no means say I'm an apologist, a theologian, but my relationship has been with God is totally based on the Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

So what you just said, I'm glad to hear, simply because me, with that background that I just said, I was able to, I honestly believe this person's coming out of Jehovah Witness with some very specific scriptures, particularly around God is just the One and Christ is a separate person under God and all of this. Yeah. Well, good. So I hope that answers that. Okay.

Is it all right? The one where he says, you know, my father, I don't want to mess with the scripture, but he said, my father and I are one after explaining God being God. And then, you know, he says, my father and I are one.

And that was just one that I can remember. But the point is, with my background, not having studied as far as theologians, but definitely in the Word of God, that was able to work. And I too, of course, maybe even more so, because I don't know the Greek meaning and all of this kind of a thing. I always go to Holy Spirit, just like what you just said. Let me, what is the answer? And not what is the answer, because like he said, you know what the scripture says, but where do I start?

How do I go with this? Also within my... Okay. We've got callers waiting. I wanted to get to them before the end of the call, before the end of the hour here, but I'm with you. I couldn't hear you.

I'm sorry? I couldn't hear you. I couldn't hear the first part before, but I wanted to get to the call. I say, yep, I agree.

I pray, and that's the process, and think of things. And I'm saying we've got callers waiting. I wanted to get to them before the end of the hour. Okay? All right. Are you there?

Hello? We lost her. All right. Well, let's move along. Let's go to Jennifer from North Carolina.

Jennifer, welcome. You're on the air. Uh-oh. I'm thinking we are having a connection problem.

Connection problem. Let's see. I'm typing it in. I don't know if you guys can hear me. Hello?

Are you there? Jennifer? Yes. Okay, Jennifer.

A lot of background noise. You got a quick question? Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Yes, I can. Yes, I can. So what do you got?

Okay. I'm probably incarcerated. My incarcerated boys, and their question is, what was going on with Jesus? Like, what was he doing from the time he was, the three days when he was crucified, when he died on the cross, so he was resurrected on the third day? If you go to Ephesians chapter 4, one of the things that is relevant here, Ephesians chapter 4, it says that he descended, is himself who ascended far above the heavens, that he might fulfill all things.

And it gets into the verse, okay, I'm looking at verse 8 now. Therefore it says, when he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men. So, some people think that what happened during that period of time between his death and resurrection, is that he went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison. And we find that in 1 Peter 3, 19, it says in verse 18, he died, he was made alive in the spirit, verse 19, in which he went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. And so, some people think, we don't know exactly what happened, but the general theory is that during the three days, he went and made proclamation to those who were in judgment. This is who I am, this is what I've done. And he also went to paradise, where those who had died in faith of the Messiah and the true God, were in a holding place, and he went and took them up to heaven, and then came back and entered his body.

And that's one of the theories, but we don't know for sure. Okay? Oh, I gotta go, there's the brain. Okay. Sorry about that.

Thank you. All right, and Nathan from California, I want you to call back and talk about this, why we're called little gods, very, very important question. Please do call back tomorrow about it, and we'll talk about free will tomorrow, Zach, also from Arkansas. If you want to give me a call, talk about what free will is and how it relates. May the Lord bless you all, and by his grace, we'll back on here tomorrow. Talk to you then. Bye.