Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276 and as usual take your questions, your calls and things like that. So hopefully everything is working fine and if we got one switch, just want to put a battery in and everything, did one switch, there it is.

All right, all right, we have four open lines, 877-207-2276 if you want to give me a call. Tonight, Lord willing, I'll be teaching through the second, or beginning to go through the second chapter of Philippians. So I already did one chapter, man, why is that working like that, I've got to do this. So I've already done one chapter and we're going to go through, there we go, we're going to go through chapter two and what I'll be doing is going through Christology. I'm going to be getting into the issue of the incarnation, the pre-incarnation, the nature of Christ in the Trinitarian Union.

I'll be talking about what's called the Hypostatic Union and the Perichoresis as well as the Communicatio Idiomatum. I'll be going into some of those things on the Bible study tonight, which I put online. So if any of you are interested in watching it, all you've got to do is go to the karm.org website, excuse me, the Facebook karm.org and I'll have the link and information there. We also put it out to YouTube, so YouTube's karm.org channel there too. So that sounds like something you want to do, you registered in that, all you've got to do is check it out tonight, I'll be going through that stuff.

And then after I teach the study for about an hour, then we open it up to questions and so people who are in the room with me, because they come to my house and I teach, ask questions and also people online will ask questions as well. So there you go. If that sounds interesting, all you've got to do is check it out and that'll be at, let's see, we start at 7.30 mic time, which is 9.30 Eastern time.

We use, I know it's late for the Eastern time, but that's what it is. And that's how it is for here for people to get here. All right. Having said all of that, what we can do is just jump on the phones. Let's get to Vicki from Ohio. Vicki, welcome. You're on the air. Hi.

I called in last week, had to hang up or you got to me, but that's okay. About cremation, which I think that is a ridiculous concept, but some people have told me, why is cremation, why is cremation a ridiculous concept? I'm just curious. No, no. That getting to heaven because you're cremated is a ridiculous concept.

I don't believe that at all. Well, people say you get there because of cremation doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So I'm not quite sure I'm following what you're saying, but that's okay.

So what's your question? Yeah. So is it true you can't get to heaven because you're cremated? I mean, everybody keeps telling me this, but I don't believe that. No, there's nothing in scripture that says that and people who say that are reading out of the book of 2nd Moronicals, all right. It's just not there.

Yeah. You can't get to heaven. God can't resurrect you.

Think about this. People have died thousands and thousands of years ago and they died on Abraham and the patriarchs and all these people, they died and their bodies are gone. There's no bones left.

There's nothing left. Is God not able to reconstitute? Is God not able to reconstitute? Is God not able to reconstitute?

So is God not able to reconstitute the atoms and bring everything back together and do what he wants? Of course he can. All right. So, yeah. Yes. And then I also had one other question and this one is that you won't upset me if you go get women being pastored.

No, they can't. Women are not to be pastored. That's exactly what I thought.

Okay. That's what I thought. And that's what I agree upon 100 percent, but I have a niece who just became a pastor and I told her, I said, you can't be second Timothy clearly says the husband of one wife. Actually it's a first Timothy three and Titus chapter one and that's what it talks about. And it says that the elder is to be a man of one woman and a pastor by default, an elder. And so she is out of line and she is in rebellion against the word of God. She needs to repent and just tell her, call me up and I'd be glad to discuss it politely. I would be glad to discuss it over the phone, but I'll tell you, she will never want to talk to me because I can show her scripture and show her that she's in rebellion against the word of God and she will not want to give up her position and her power and her authority and her title.

Yes. I agree that 100 percent, and so many people say, well, you know, in the Bible it says that ladies have held positions of titles before and the old past the man, they have held titles, but that's not a pastor. You know, like Deborah was in charge of men. It doesn't mean that she was a pastor.

Pastors a new Testament thing ordained by God. And that's what's going on. And women are not to be in that position. I look, I'll do it. I always do that.

Not always, but I do this a lot and I've been doing this for 17 years. I'll say to people, if you disagree with me, let's have a public, formal videotaped debate on this. We'll use scripture.

Does the Bible teach that women may or may not be pastors and elders? Let's do that title. If you want to do it in the East Coast, I'll fly out there. Let's do a debate. And I've said this so many times over the years, I never, ever have gotten anybody to take me up on it. Not even once. Yes. Yeah.

Now why is that? I will give her your number and the time that you are on and have her give you a call and I'll make sure I'm listening that evening. Yeah.

We can go through the scriptures and I can teach her concepts she's probably not aware of like federal headship and subordination inside. We'll get in some stuff. Yeah.

I can do some stuff. But at any rate, okay? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Thank you so very much. You're welcome so very much. Well, God bless.

Okay. Well, that's Vicki from Ohio. We have three open lines if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Let's get to Doug from Indiana. Doug, welcome. You're on the air.

Hello, Matt. I have a question concerning the serpent in the garden in Genesis. According to my understanding, the serpent was a created creature.

And what is a correlation, yeah, created creature on the earth? And what's a correlation between the serpent and the fallen angel Lucifer? Well, generally speaking, the theologians assert that it was the devil in the garden and he is Lucifer, the fallen angel. Lucifer means light bearer and Satan means adversary. So God did not create him fallen, did not create him evil. But in his own prideful sense, Isaiah 14, 12 through 14, he rebelled against God and took a third of the angels with him, that's the theory, and rebelled and then entered into the garden. God allowed that and tempted Eve and she gave the fruit to Adam and then we have the fall.

So that's how it works. Okay. So what's the passage mean that God created the creature more craftier than any others? He didn't say he created him more craftier, this says he was more crafty. The serpent was more craftier than any beast in the field. Now think about it, if the serpent there is just, now think about this, just a creature like a snake, alright, is a snake crafty? We look at snakes and you look at cats and dogs and you look at turtles and birds of prey.

Which one's crafty? Well it's not saying that the serpent has this intellectual ability as a form of a snake and so what's going on is that it's a personification of the devil, of the evil one, the serpent was more crafty than any beast in the field. What's interesting is that if you think about this, there's an incarnation, not an incarnation, but a representation of God in the person of the one who walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. It's a pre-incarnate Christ. So this is a kind of imitation of that, where the enemy of the gospel is doing a similar thing.

This is what the enemy does, he imitates the true and living God. So he was there, God allowed it, and then the fall occurred. Oh, so actually when they speak about fallen angels, it was like people fall from the grace of God and etcetera, is that correct? The phrase falls from graces in Galatians 5, 4 I think it is, but it does not mean they lose their salvation. The angels didn't have salvation in the sense that they were saved from the righteous judgment of God because they weren't sinners until the angels fell, as it says in Revelation, took a third of the stars with them, the tail swept through the stars, they think that's what happened there. There is no salvation for angels.

They are not going to be, they don't have a redeemer, they don't have any way to be saved, those who fell can never be redeemed, can never be saved. Okay so where does, just quickly, where does the Nephilim, if I'm pronouncing that right, come into play with like the hybrid type humans? In Genesis chapter 6, you go to Genesis 6, it talks about the Nephilim, and in Genesis 6, what's really important is particularly verse 9, because it says there, these are the records of the generations of Noah, Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generations. And so some people think that what that means is that his ancestry was without corruption, because the Christian church until the 1500s believed that the Nephilim were the offspring between the fallen angels and women, and that's my position, I hold that position. And the Jews always taught that. It wasn't until the Christian church became, or this theory, this idea became attacked that in the 1500s they went to what's called the Sethite theory, that is just one of Noah's sons.

And I don't buy that for a second. And in Jude it talks about the angels who left their first abode, etc., found out, you know, were tempted with women. And so it's referencing back here to Genesis chapter 6.

So it looks like the reason the flood occurred was because the enemy of the gospel was trying to thwart the arrival of the Messiah by interbreeding and diluting the line of the people. And so God wiped them all out. And then one continuing theory about this is that what the angels then, or the half-breeds, when they died, were set free from their bodies and their spirits continued. And one of the theories is that's where the demons came from.

And that's why they want to inhabit bodies. These are just theories that are within Christian discussions and stuff. Okay? Yes, yes. Okay. And thank you for your time and your knowledge. Well, you're welcome.

God bless. All right. Yes, sir. And you have a good evening. You too.

All right. Thanks for listening. Hey, folks, we have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, give me a call, okay?

Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. Welcome to the air.

Yes, sir. I was talking to you yesterday and I forgot my last question, but I remember the after we hung up. And my question was about, we were talking about the sun and the moon. And if the sun and the moon are in the front, how is the moon, I mean the sun, 93 million miles away, but the moon is kind of close.

But there's no mention in the Bible anywhere about galaxies and all that other stuff. And how is the moon and the sun so far away and it's... Well, hold on a sec. We've got a break. I'm not sure how is it, but we'll talk about that, okay? So folks, we have four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276 Rudolph, are you still there?

Yes, sir, I am here. So I'm not really sure I understand your question. Okay, the moon's about 235,000 miles away and the sun's 93 million.

So what's your question? Yes, so if they're in the front, how can they stay in the same front? They will be that far away from each other? You mean the flat earth people?

No. I might be one of those, but no, the sun and the moon. If they're in the front together, how could the moon and the sun be so far apart? Oh, so you're asking why flat earth, what flat earthers would say in response to that? Is that your position, your question? I don't understand what your question is. That's what I'm saying. What is your question?

My question is, if the moon and the sun are in the front together, how could the sun be so far away and the moon be so close? This is in reference to flat earthers? Is that what you're asking? Is that your question? Probably so, because I kind of agree with some of the stuff they say.

No, you shouldn't. The flat earthers don't have all their paws in the litter box, okay? They don't, they don't. They're conspiratorialists who don't know what science is actually teaching. They have ridiculous excuses for denying the facts, and it's a waste of time to deal with them. I've done an article, and I've done several things to expose their fallacies, and there's plenty of videos on YouTube, for example, that just destroy the flat earth thing. So from their perspective, they don't know what they're doing.

Like I said, they don't have all their paws in the litter box. And they misread scripture, and then they make things fit. Here's a question. One of the questions I have for flat earthers is a very simple question. I said, let's pretend we'll make a model of how the earth and the sun and the moon and the firmament are supposed to be, so we can understand the proportions. So let's have a table that's three feet in diameter, it's a circle. And there's a dome that's three feet high in the middle around that round table. And the sun and the moon are either embedded in the firmament up top near the center, or they just somehow are able to orbit between the flat earth and the dome, underneath the dome. Well, the question then becomes in that model, why is it that there's night?

Why is it that people on one side of the world can't see the sun since it emits light, and from every position on the earth, the sun would be visible all the time? Which is one of the very, very simple things to help refute the idea of flat earth cosmology. So I have no respect for them. I think it's a ludicrous endeavor.

I think that they need to stop wasting people's time and move on to bigger and better things, instead of the poles around the edge of the earth, or the giant ice shield that keeps the oceans in. Well, what's underneath this? We don't know. What's beyond?

We don't know. So when you look out, you see Jupiter and Saturn, they're all around. So imagine this, you've got the sun, which is a sphere, and all the planets are spheres, and then all of a sudden, we have a flat disk that's the earth. Yeah, that's consistency. Yeah, it's just ridiculous. It is.

You can tell they're disdain. When they say flat, they mean like a flat plane, not actually like a square. A plane is flat, by definition.

There are only three points to find a plane. Some say it's a square, some say that it's a flat disk, or just a disk. But the scriptures speak about the four corners of the earth and the circle of the earth, so it's just metaphorical speaking, representation. So it just doesn't work. And there's lots of other problems with the flat earth model. I just suggest to people, go on the web and look up flat earth cosmology, just flat earth refute. Yeah, refute flat earth.

You'll see plenty of videos from very competent scientists who say, this is ridiculous, and they'll show you why. It just doesn't work. Okay. Okay. All right. Yes, sir. All right. Thank you. All right. Okay.

Four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 8772072276. Let's get to Randy from Kentucky. Randy, welcome.

You're on the air. Howdy, sir. Hi. I was listening to your eschatology again yesterday, and you had made a comment about Acts 1, 9 through 11 refuting post-millennialism, and I was just curious if you could elaborate on that a little bit. It refutes praetorism. Praetorism. Oh, praetorism. Okay.

Okay. I heard it wrong. And some post-millennialists hold to full praetorism and some don't, but post-millennialism says that things are going to get better, which I absolutely deny. I just don't believe that for a second. But Acts 1, 9 through 11, the full praetorists say that Jesus returned in the armies and he's going to return later, and some post-millennialists say that the new heavens were to be brought in by the conversion of the world to the gospel, and that will usher in the presence of Christ, and that's how he's going to return. Some say that. I've heard some affirm praetorism, that the return of Christ happened in 70 AD, and that's what it was talking about in Matthew 24 and Luke 17, how bad things are going to get, and that it's only going to get better from there. But Acts 1, 9 through 11, which I can go through if you want, absolutely refutes the idea that Jesus returned in the armies of Jerusalem in 70 AD, as the praetorists say.

Okay? If you have time, I would love to hear that because, I mean, I'm not a post-millennialist, but I'm studying it like I'm about like you. I was raised in a Baptist church, and, of course, I was, you know, Tumulhay, all that. I even taught the stuff, but that's part I hate. And then as I got to studying on my own, I thought everything free had fallen for me, so I'm pretty well landing in the Aumale camp right now.

Yeah, I'm Aumale, and I'm actually working on an in-depth study on amillennialism that I'm going to present sometime using PowerPoint slides and all kinds of neat lickety-split effects and things like that, just so people can see how things relate. But so this is what it says in Acts 1, 9 through 11. So Jesus ascended into heaven, and it says, after he had said these things, he was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received him out of their sight. So they're looking up, and a cloud received them, received him out of their sight. And as they were gazing intently into the sky, that's what it says, a sky, while he was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. And they also said, men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? So my conclusion is they were looking into the sky. The reason I say they were looking into the sky is because they said, why do you stand looking into the sky? That's why I say, hey, they're looking into the sky, okay? This Jesus, who's been taken up from you into heaven, okay, will come in just the same way as you watched him go into heaven.

It's a prophecy of how he's going to return. We've got more, so we've got a break there, too. So hold on, okay? Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

We have three open lines. You want to give me a call? 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show, everyone. We have one open line. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Randy, welcome.

All right, you still there? Yes, sir. All right, so I read from Scripture Acts 1, 1-11, which clearly, I just don't get how they can go on the contrary, clearly said, the angels say he's going to return the way he returned. He went up into the clouds, up into the sky. Not only that, but Jesus said, and this is in Matthew 24, 30, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky. Matthew 26, 64, Jesus says, you have said it yourself, nevertheless I tell you, hereafter, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven. Revelation 1, 7, behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him. He's coming back the way he went up. He's coming on the clouds. I'm blown away that people would say, nope, what he really means is he came with the armies of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. I'm like, what? You know, I'm just blown away. Okay.

All right. I know what they do. They go to the Old Testament. This is the thing that they'll do.

I know that there's some people out there going, man, you don't understand. The Old Testament says what they do is they make an exegetical problem. They submit the New Testament to the old.

It's supposed to be the old submitted to the new because it's the new that sheds light on the old. It's very, very clearly stated how Jesus will return in Acts 1, 1-11. What they'll do is they'll say, in the Old Testament, it's about a phrase of power.

They take that and they say that's what it means in the New Testament, and then they negate Acts 1, 1-11. Right. I don't hold to it.

Peterism to me is, sorry, foolishness. Okay. Okay.

All right. Quick. Do you have time for one quick question or can I call back? Quick. Let's make it quick. Everybody wait. Let's go really fast.

What do you got? I'm sorry. Another sticking point I've had was they have 65, 17 to 25.

How should I look at that? Some people say it's the new millennium coming in after the pre-Trip Rapture and stuff. What was the verses? 17 through? Yes, sir. 25.

17 through 25. That's a lot there. Yeah, and some say it's a literal 1,000 years that has to be there, and then it's not because it doesn't make sense from other areas of Scripture. What he's talking here about the new heavens and new earth that are coming later on, that's the case. It's not about the Rapture or tribulation period. It's not about a literal 1,000 year reign that Christ is going to be there and there's reasons for it.

I've gone over this before. It has to be that people are redeemed and the new heavens and new earth occur. One of the things that's a problem here is that they want to say during the millennium that babies, let's see what's it say, no longer will there be an infant who lives just a few days. Old men, about his days, for the youth will die at the age of 100 and the one who does not reach the age of 100 will be thought to be accursed.

So what? He's talking about infants won't die, but people are going to die. It's what it says, an infant who lives but a few days.

It won't happen like that. No infants are going to die and an old man, at least, and the youth will live long, but the youth are going to live to be 100 years, at least. This is what's supposed to happen during the millennial reign if it's a literal 1,000 year period. This is during a time when Christ is supposed to be ruling from Jerusalem and yet people are going to be rebelling against Christ during his earthly reign when he's in charge. Babies are going to live to who knows how many years.

People aren't going to die for 100 years, at least. There's a lot of symbolism here and you've got to be careful. What they do is they want to take it literally, but is that what's going on when you start looking at it? No. It doesn't make sense. Okay, all right. Great. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate all you do. You're welcome.

God bless. Let's get to Martin from Virginia. Martin, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey, thanks, Matt. Thanks for taking my call.

Appreciate your ministry. Sure, thanks. Hey, real quick, I know you've got callers stacked up, a previous caller about the flatter comment, and I guess if you go back a little bit in time, a lot of bit in time, a lot of that flatter stuff came somewhat from our observation and primitive observation of the Moon. Right. And you can see the Moon, it's not rotating on its own axis like the Earth is in relation to the Earth. No, it is. It's basically tidal locked. No, it rotates, but it's a 28-day rotation, just happens to be tidally locked with the Earth. Yes.

Correct, correct, correct. But in relation to the Earth, it does not rotate on an axis. It's stuck. You know, it does not rotate on an axis in relation to the Earth. And that's where the Earth observation came in of the flatter type stuff. It's like, ah, hey, we've got this saucer like a disc that's just sitting there facing us all the time, and we've gone over this in a lot of different forms to prove why it does not rotate on its axis in relation to the Earth.

It rotates on many different axes in relation to like the Sun, Mars, Venus, other heavenly objects. Because if you put a string in between the Moon and the Earth at their equator, at their very center, there's only one object that would get wrapped up, and that would be the Earth, not the Moon. The Moon would just have that string pointed right at the Earth all the time, you know, till the end of time.

Right, right. It's tidally locked because there's greater mass on the far side of the Moon, and so as like centripetal force, that's why it's like that. But it is actually on its own axis as it turns, it just happens to be tidally locked. And what's really curious about the Moon, this is very, very unusual.

People don't realize how exceedingly rare it is that the size of the Moon and its location and distance between the Earth and the Sun allows for the Sun to be eclipsed and yet still see the corona. And that is exceedingly rare, it's phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we are very rare.

Here on Earth, we are so lucky, I mean, nowhere have we ever found where life can be created, you know, where life can exist in this situation, and the Moon plays a huge, huge part of that in the Earth as well. Absolutely, that's right. But obviously God's graced for all things, so. That's right. That's right, amen. Thanks. All right, brother. Okay.

All right. All right, let's get to Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hi, Matt. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

So what do you got? I've got John 5, 31 to 34. Could you read that and then give me the contents of who John is? John chapter 5 is where Jesus is speaking. Right, but what does it say, John 5, 31 to 34? Well it says, if I alone testify about myself, my testimony is not true, there's none who testify of me, and I know that the testimony which he gives about me is true. You have sent to John and he testified to the truth, but the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.

Okay, so what's your question? So that's John the Baptist? No, it's the Holy Spirit. It'll be the testimony of actually the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit for the witness of Christ, because the Father bears witness of Christ, as do the Scriptures. Yeah, but it said he said John, when he mentions John, is that John the Baptist?

Okay. Verse 32, yes, John the Baptist. There's another who testifies of me, another. And it's Allah. Right, and that's John the Baptist.

Hold on a sec. That's John the Baptist. Hold on a sec, hold on, hold on, hold on, I'm trying to tell you something, okay? In Greek there's two words for Allah, for other, alas and hetaras, alas means another of the same kind, and hetaras means another of a different kind. There is another of the same kind who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony which he gives about me is true. Now we know the Father is the one who is testifying and bearing witness of Christ. He says you have sent to John, and he testified to the truth. Jesus is saying that God is testifying of him, but John also testified, but the testimony which I received, he says, is not from man. That's what he says, the other one is alas, is the one whose testimony is not merely from man but from God.

That's what he's saying, okay? Well can you go to John 1, 31? Yes I can, okay, and it says I do not recognize him, but John the Baptist said, but so that you may be manifested in Israel I came baptizing in water, okay?

Right, so John the Baptist, when he baptized Jesus, it wasn't about Jesus, it was about John the Baptist fulfilling his testimony of identifying the Son of God. Okay so what are you trying to say? I'm giving you the answer for what you're doing, hold on a sec, hold on, I said I gave you an answer and you seem to ignore it and go on to something else.

So when I give someone an answer, they don't respond to it or comment on it, they ignore it and go to something else, it tells me they're not listening, and why dialogue, okay? So we're going to move along, and we've got a break coming up so that's good timing anyway, may the Lord bless them. And folks, we have two open lines if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show everyone, last segment we have one open line 877-207-2276, Emery from Charlotte, North Carolina, welcome, you're on the air. How are you doing?

I'm doing okay, hanging in there, what have you got man? I've got a question, why are clouds so important in the Bible? Well because they dwell in the second heaven, they give us shade, and rain comes from them, so that's some of the reasons they're so important.

I didn't think about rain. Were you talking about spiritual significance? That symbolized the presence of God, so words mean what they mean in their context, people make mistakes when they say, for example the word all means all, it means what it means in its context, all the world was being taxed doesn't mean every individual, and so the word clouds has a semantic domain, it can mean literally a group of witnesses, it can also mean a water vapor thing that's white up in the sky, and it can also mean the presence of God.

So it just means what it means in context, alright? Okay, well there you go then, alright, okay, God bless you, alright, okay let's get to Alberto from Georgia, Alberto welcome, you're on the air. Yes, good evening, I want to know when it says in Matthew 24, the third chapter of it says that those who endure to the end shall be saved, have you according to the people going through the great tribulation period or according to the people in the church age? Church age presupposes dispensational theology, but we'll jump on that one right now, those in Matthew 24, it's kind of an interesting text, those who endure to the end will be saved, it's not teaching that you'll be saved as in salvation, because if you endure through a tribulation period and then you're saved for salvation because of that, well then that's salvation by works, that's not what's going on, but what the context is, is in an overall sense, it's the apostasy that's coming, the arrival of the evil one, people are falling away from the faith, this kind of thing, and the one who endures at the end will be saved, some think that it could be during the tribulation period you'll be saved through that to the point of Christ's return and the rapture, some mistakenly think it has to do with salvation, you'll be saved if you endure through a tribulation period, some have said that the enduring is what gets you saved, not that you're enduring persecution but you don't deny Christ because if you did then you would not have salvation or you would lose it, so there's different views about what that verse means, and to be honest I'm not exactly sure what it is, it cannot mean in any way shape or form that people lose their salvation, I don't believe that for a second, Jesus refutes that in John 6, 37-40, so I think it has to do with you endure through these things, you're going to be saved, and you've got to do that, but salvation is not because you endure to the end, just the one who endures to the end will be saved, it doesn't say because you endure to the end, you will be saved, alright? In other words, that was so, it was how much endurance you have to endure to determine that you're going to be saved, you know what I'm saying? Right, yeah there's problems there, that's right, how much you've got to endure to be saved? You know my wife certainly has endured a lot with my presence, so she, you don't want to be saved, you should be, you know, because I'm such an obstreperous individual, you know, and she's saying right now, she's saying, Amen! You can tell me, because the church has been accosted 30 years ago, and they teach, well see if you don't endure to the end, well you're not going to be saved, that thing is referring to salvation, like you said, it's not referring to salvation. They're saying you keep your salvation by how good you are on a continuous basis, that's salvation by works. A lot of Arminians teach that, that you, in order to be saved, you can lose your salvation, but you've got to be good, you've got to, don't do the bad things, otherwise you'll lose your salvation, so it's up to you and your goodness to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God, you know, so, yeah, it's a heresy, okay? Yeah, yeah, because at the church I tend to, they believe in Arminians, you know, that they taught that, yeah, that I love. Thank you.

I'm glad you did, man. Yeah. Okay? Okay, God bless you, what a great work. You too, man, God bless. All right, let's get to Charles from Durham, North Carolina, Charles, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, man, how you doing?

Doing all right, hanging in there, man, where you going? I thought I was asking a very simple question, but now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think it's quite that simple. Okay. What's the fundamental relationship slash difference between a pastor, elders, deacons, and trustees? And, biblically speaking- Well, let's do one at a time.

Okay, go ahead. Okay, I don't know what a trustee is, that's not an office given in scripture. The apostle in the New Testament economy has priority. The prophets in the New Testament are spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14, and they have the gift of prophesying.

If they mean prophet in the Old Testament, that is done away with, there are no more prophets, and Jesus says that all the prophets were until John, that's John the Baptist in Luke 16, 16. And so, when it says in Ephesians 4, that's the issue that we have to deal with. Ephesians 4 deals with the hierarchical structure within the church. And we have there in verse 11 apostles and prophets, which is already dealt with, and evangelists and some as pastors and teachers. Now, the pastor and teachers are covered by the same definite article in the Greek.

The definite article is the. In Greek, it's some as the apostles and some as the prophets and some as the evangelists and some as the pastors and teachers. That's what it says in the Greek. So we also have deacons, and deacons are servants, but the pastor is also an elder, by definition, because the elders are the ones who preach and teach, and you go to 1 Timothy 5.17 for that. So the hierarchical structure within the church deals not with a pope and bishops and things like that, but with pastors and teachers, deacons, like that, that's the order. So if the pastor says, church, we're going to do this, is it that the elders would pray on or pass on it and approve it? Do the elders manage the pastor? Is that biblical?

Let me read scripture, and then we'll address it. 1 Timothy 5.17, the elders, plural, the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So the elders, the word elder in Greek is presbuteros, or elders is presbuteroi. We get presbyterian from this word, which means that the governmental structure of the church and the domination and that particular church is presbyterian. It means elder run, elder ruled, because it says in 1 Timothy 5.17, the elders who rule. Generally speaking, you don't have a single elder, like a single pastor, you have elders generally, but what do you do if there's only one pastor? There's by definition an elder per 1 Timothy 5.17. So we want to make sure that we understand that church is not a democracy. It is not a democracy, it's not achieved by voting, what the congregation wants, because the pastor's job is to equip the Christians and the body of Christ. They often are not qualified or educated or know enough to be able to say, hey, I want to go this way.

Raise your hand. It doesn't work like that. The elders are supposed to be educated, trained, not to have a degree, but they need to know what the scriptures teach, so that they're not, as 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 talks about, that they have certain areas of reputation and reliability and doctrinal knowledge. So now your question. So if a pastor says, hey, let's go this way in the church, in part it depends on how the church is set up, because there should be in a church, let's say there's a hundred people in a church. You have one elder and you have, say, one pastor and three elders, even though the pastor, by definition, an elder. So let's just say you have one pastor and three elders, and the pastor says, we're going to move to this building, and the three elders say, no, we're not, then they don't.

Because he doesn't have the final authority, he's one of the elders, and the elders as a group need to decide certain things. Outstanding. So it sounds like a healthy church needs to be set up in a Presbyterian type format. That's correct. That is correct.

That is correct, because that's what it says. Because if you go to 1 Timothy 3, it says that an overseer must be above reproach, etc. Because what he's doing, let me go to Titus 1, that'd be better. It says here, for this reason, verse 5, I left you in Crete, that you would set an order that remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. So now the elders are in cities, overseeing the cities. He must be a man who's above reproach, the husband of one wife, which is why women can't be pastors and elders, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion, for the overseer. Now that's the word episkopos, they get the word bishop from that. But the word elder is presbuteros, it looks like elder and bishop are interchangeable. Some people say, oh, the bishop's over the elders. It doesn't say that in Scripture. For the overseer, the bishop must be above reproach, as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, etc.

It goes on. So what he's doing is listing the position of the elder as an overseer. Got it.

All right? And so you say trustee is not a true office? I was told that trustees serve for the divorce men, to give the divorce men in the church something to do. Well, a church can create an office like that. I don't see any problem with it. The Bible doesn't say you can only have these offices, but the offices that are mentioned normally should be in a church, but if they want to say there's a director of children ministry, that's fine.

Or someone who does, you know, is a trustee who does errands for the church and is trusted with certain things. You know, I can see that. It just needs to be, you know, moved under Christian biblical fences, let's say. I'm trying to leave it open. Understood.

Okay? Yes, sir. And what was that word again? You said presvoutaras. The Greek word is presvoutaras, which is nominative, masculine, singular, just the elder, okay? And then the word for bishop is episcopas. That's what we get.

I didn't get episcopalian from that. Ah, yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. All right. God bless. All right.

Okay. Let's get to last caller Bill from North Carolina. Bill, we've got about a minute in the show. What do you got, buddy?

Yeah, Matt. I have two questions, so hopefully we'll get through one, but in the old... I've been studying the Old Testament last year and a half really intently. There's a reference to other gods quite a bit, and I'm not sure how to understand what that means, if that makes sense. Okay.

Even sometimes it sounds like God has known them. Let me help you out, because we're almost out of time. We're almost out of time. Yeah. Okay. So the gods existed in the Old Testament, but not ontologically. There were no things that were actually gods. You go to Isaiah 43, 44, 45, read through those three chapters, you'll see that God says that there's none before, none after, doesn't even know of any other. Furthermore, in Galatians 4-8, however, at that time when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. So he's saying you believed in them and you were slaves in them, but by nature they're not gods.

And that's what's going on in the Old Testament. Okay. So there are no other gods. That's good.

There are no other gods. And the second thing, and it can be yes or no. You're gonna have to call back. I have...

There's the music. We're out of time. We're trying to get through it quickly. No problem. Thank you. Call back tomorrow. Okay.

I want to hear what you have to say. I will. Thank you. Okay. All right, buddy. God bless. All right. Whew!

It's a fast hour. May the Lord bless you this evening. Remember, I'll be teaching a Bible study on Philippians chapter 2. I'll have it online and you can check it out by going to karm.org, on Facebook, or on YouTube. You can watch it tonight. May the Lord bless you.

By His grace. Be back on there tomorrow. Talk to you then. This is a program powered by the Truth Network.