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NCAA, Venomous Snakes, Anti-Protest Legislation, Estate Planning and More!

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer
The Truth Network Radio
July 23, 2021 12:00 pm

NCAA, Venomous Snakes, Anti-Protest Legislation, Estate Planning and More!

Outlaw Lawyer / Josh Whitaker & Joe Hamer

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July 23, 2021 12:00 pm

Attorneys Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer give updates on previous topics involving the NCAA and ownership of venomous snakes.  In addition, they discuss anti-protest legislation and what it means for the future of protesting and estate planning.

To reach the law firm, call 800-659-1186, email or visit 

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Coming up on the outlaw all your work in a talk couple updates on some things we discussed in the past. The NCAA recent ruling venomous snakes. We are talking anti-protest legislation within a talk about estate planning to cover a lot of topics next spring court has said time is in this is what taken think about him and you don't jump to your thou, and now outlaw your Josh Whitaker welcome to this week's outlaw lawyer I am Josh Whitaker I am one of your host. I am also an attorney with the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer.

I'm here with our cohost Joseph T.

Hamer, I don't doing great. Josh, thank you for including my middle initial I whereby to really get a feel for who you are and what you which are about to make me sound very formal and extremely formal so thank you so just a reminder, if this the first time you're listening to the outlaw or what we try to do here. Me and Joe. We try to take legal items out of the new cycle and got a look at him like practicing attorneys would look at trial or a fact pattern and so me and Joe. We are partners over Whitaker and Hamer Whitaker Hamer has offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Marina. We practice every day*firms in the courtrooms here and he awake Johnson and the surrounding counties and were dealing with stuff on the ground that we like to apply that reasoning and logic we use every day to these these news items, stand out to us as a couple things. So Joe got a couple updates and some stuff very talked about. That's right, Josh.

We we talked extensively in a past episode about the NCAA. Some of the changes with NCAA I what the future looks like for the NCAA and we will kind of take a look at how that future is developing will follow-up in and discuss that were also to talk a little bit more about venomous snakes again venomous snakes been in the news here recently and we have some updates there as well. We promised you guys. We will follow these things and provide any kind of relevant updates.

We can work come through on the promise today so so things move fast almost on the NCAA after the case, the Supreme Court case and of course we we spent some time last week talking about the North Raleigh spitting cobras in and soon as we talked about.

There is a bunch updates now and so that's the thing people. I feel like we that just shows our fingers on the pulse of the legal news in the community.

Josh so after that sortof time.

It is updates and then we got some other stuff we will forget we have got anti-protest legislation were to talk about some recent developers protests have been a little more prevalent in the news the last couple years and unit working to talk a little bit about that and what some states are introducing to try and basically you can and I guess the best way to frame it is really it's kind of anti-protest legislation in the sense that, not necessarily preventing protest in general but preventing and kind of criminalizing violent rioting style of protest and will talk about that and add a word in the show we got kind of an estate planning fact pattern we we never have time to reach you last week but this week will delve into or calling and estate planning horror story. We will dive deeply into the estate planning horror story I want to get more horror stories on the air for our listeners.

Cautionary tales just to kind of keep everybody informed so were riffling and try to do that but again like Josh said, we are looking at these things from the neutral perspective of the law. Again, we try to keep the politics out of it. We try to keep our own individual biases out of it and that's that's really what were trying to do and that's really the purpose of the outlaw your your timeout horror stories and so when I go to talk. People sometimes are thought to some groups and that's what I always start with I start with things that I've seen go wrong in my practice. There were these these horror stories are very good teaching to that's true.

We have a Rolodex of things that go wrong and unfortunately we add to it every day because the law invites the horror stories to occur in a lot of ways and you know about a lot of times through nobody's fault is just if you don't have proper legal representation, you can get yourself into bad situations and again that's why we always encourage our listeners near the purpose of the show, not to provide legal advice to anybody but if you do need legal advice.

We always encourage you to reach out to us and when we be happy to help you out a lot of my business law consults. Joe is just established businesses, you know, we help folks get started up. We help people organize the corporate structure but a lot of my business consults are established businesses. The just call me and they say Josh is one thing about doing chat should I do that and God know or you know yet we can do that but this is how we we need to think about it. Here you need some waivers you need so we help a lot of business owners just cannot think through their whatever strategy, whatever, whatever, they're encountering whatever something they want to do new how to organize a new division there or what have you. And so your lawyer and your CPA there. There's helpful folks to have an iconic context. We deftly seen people do it wrong that's the other half my consults rights of the other have my consults. I like I did this and answered.

I did this and I got a letter from this agency in an Lotta stuff you can you can Lotta stuff you can be wrong and there's a lot of things you can do right now is tell you things you can do right. We actually encourage every listener to start their own business today.

Give us a call. Allow us to assist you with this but it is important to you, who you choose, like you said, CPA and attorney anytime you're you're starting a business. Are you looking at a big decision like that. It's not only important to consult with professionals, but it's also very important who you consult with an and who these professionals are and do your research your due diligence.

If you if you don't choose the fine folks at Whitaker and Hamer that are associated with this fantastic radio show because there are other great lawyers out there. We just encourage everybody to again look into who you're dealing with, you know, if you get a good barometer of whether professional is going to be reliable and is going to be somebody that can provide a good high-quality service to you. You can look at the, the length of time the business has been in the community and if you get someone who's been around for several years in the local community and is still going strong that's generally a strong indicator that you're you're getting the type of service you deserve as a client. I was talking to a client the other day, and here only a lawyer you know Joe and I we were for law firm. There's a thing as such as attorney-client privilege that we will never divulge any personal information on the on the radio show here will never doing like that but I do like to take things and cannot take names and details out of the situation just to give you guys again like horror stories is the fact pattern so we had we had some the other day who who was militantly one to use this form that the content they downloaded on the Internet that we had told him. I hate that form what you wanted to do. It was, it had the same title rights of this form that were talking about it was that had the same title is the form that I prepared, but I watch that pay you to draft this and I can just download the same form as the same name right.

Not the same forms the same name as I look if you if you want the Internet to be your lawyer, that's fine. Internet is a terrible law. It is like the Internet. The terrible Dr. you if you have a headache in you Google that you have a headache here you come away with cancer or AIDS you have everything just because that's the way it works just like we don't want the Internet to be your doctor will want Internet to be your attorney. It's bad, it's a bad idea and just consult with a professional in this matter. This was a decently important matter. There was an theory hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line and and you know anyway I got anyway that's that's a thing that happened download lots of things from the Internet.

Don't download your legal forms for a fairly important matter.

But anyway, again, if you want to contact us here at the show. It's the outlaw your our phone number is 1-800-659-1186 that's 1-800-659-1186 so that meant that phone line is set up to have you leave a message.

Make sure you leave us contact information. Let us know if you have a question or comment for the show.

If you do need any legal advice or you want to consult with one of the lawyers over Whitaker name or you can call that number two and leave a message and will reach back out to you so you and it was only hundred 659-1186 if it's easier for you to email you can email us at questions. That's plural Remember that these important our website is the outlaw all of our episodes are archived there safe, enjoy listening to the show.

We got some other episodes for you there annual social media. We are the outlaw lawyers so feel free to interact with. Is there we always love to hear from you.

We really want to talk about things that our listeners would like to hear about. So any any questions or comments are certainly welcome. That's right, Josh. We love each and every one of our listeners individually with all of our hearts and we love to hear from you and there's nothing more we would love to do than interact with you guys talk about the things that you guys would like us to talk about and we've really been overwhelmed with the feedback we got so far and we just really appreciated next on outlaw lawyer we take a look back at what has changed since the ruling in NCAA V also we found it was a week or two ago I Joe and I spent a lot of time diving deep into NCAA versus Austin Joe remind us what was going on in that case, yes. So again we we talked about NCAA V Austin. We talked about it extensively because we thought it was really a big case and it really signaled the direction that things are to move in with NCAA and we speculated at the time that there could be some pretty wide and sweeping changes in how you know that that we thought that they would occur so quickly but but just by way of review NCAA V Austin, the Supreme Court case again.

We talked about it and if you guys are loyal listeners who of course listen and review every episode we do and go back to the outlaw law. to catch any episodes they miss your remember just as Cavanaugh wrote in the case and gave a pretty strict warning to the NCAA and basically criticized the amateur model that the NCAA is been built upon for really since its initiation and and stated that the NCAA is not above the law.

There was a lot of antitrust elements to it. It was basically a case about education related benefits being given to student athletes and the court ultimately said that you know that is permissible.

So Cavanaugh basically use the decision and used what he wrote to put the NCAA countable notice that if another case comes before the Supreme Court and the NCAA has to make a more unit appointed specific ruling about the NCAA's business model, then they are going to basically destroy and rule against the NCAA and I don't have a time that happened. This is relatively at what we attorneys are called narrow on the facts and rulings of the Supreme Court case. While it was important enough to be at the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court decided this, and I believe it was unanimous thing is is one of the 90 cases of if I remember anything of this is education related benefits to the athletes. I believe so.

A small important but small narrow ruling and Cavanaugh just teed off on page is used as a jumping point delicate dad scolding just his kid and like you said, narrow but but super relevant and I think that's why we cannot really hone in on it because it wasn't so much that the ruling itself was was Rod wide reaching and would have these great ramifications. It was more or less you could tell by the tenor of Cavanaugh's statement where this was going to go if something else came back up and it was basically an inevitability that the NCAA as we know it was going to drastically change if not go away altogether. I was right after we talked about it like I got a couple estates in Kentucky maybe Florida. There's a couple states that it almost immediately proposed state laws that would allow any collegiate athletes in their state to make money off their name whiteness image. Yeah, exactly. And these are. You have to remember college sports or its big business in the states and it's it's one of those things and it is, like we talked about one of the concerns with these NCAA regulations that have been around for a long time and just the amateurism model in general is trying to maintain some semblance of a level playing field which really is kind of an illusory concept in and of itself because you've got schools and you've got athletic departments and and boosters that really have so much money and so many resources they can pour into their school at there's there's really not a level playing field as it is wet but like you said you see a lot of states jumping to get on this bandwagon and it said not fall behind and then again because it in the interest of justice and what's fair and what really should be done in the situation. You know, so the states that a lot of states try to get legislation through the NCAA. I don't member. How long after Cavanaugh's ruling came down to Maine all week to week 70 was a long time NCAA came out with their new policy on name, image, likeness, which is basically their policy was suspending all the rules that had prohibited prohibited athletes from from cashing in is that was the new policy so it really is just like overnight.

This this is your discussion without the lawyers about so this was a Supreme Court ruling that maybe not a lot of people read. I know it got summarize your own CNN or ESPN and nothing my ever really looked at the notes in the bowl suggest that it will. Cavanaugh said, and then everything changed almost overnight. So now it's it's it's like the wild wild West of collegiate endorsement is like new rules right now yeah and you know you mentioned that that happened shortly after Cavanaugh gave his ruling. I don't know that we can conclusively prove that it happened in response to the outlaw your is at the center that a hearing on the matter, how the NCAA heard are damning commentary exactly exactly.

We we get things done but you know I think like you said a lot of states were kind of making their own laws and handling it on a state-by-state basis. And I think NCAA, wanted to address that on a national level critique you had really a weird patchwork for a little while there where you have these differing rules and differing different areas and I think the NCAA, suspending all that I think NCAA sees the writing on the wall really wants to get out ahead of this is much that can and preserve whatever semblance of their relevancy that they can why think we mentioned this before, I am unfortunately Nancy state fan are our friend Joseph.

There's a big fan but I was as the states are passing these laws is like my North Carolina's got a get with the program is really concerned, but we have Artie seen a couple things I didn't I didn't really look, I know, like, who's the guy from Carolina signed the deal. The Maryland Maryland restaurant's basket question, unless it was a kind of thing. I was amazed that we sponsor a player which is the outlaw your should sponsor player. If there's any if there's any logo on the front of the jersey.

I don't think you do that yet week. It will sponsor a walk on, but I saw a story where and then I think it was Miami didn't go back and find it but it was like a Miami businessman who is offering or at least put out there in the media that I had a $500,000 a year deal for whoever you know comes the University of Miami and that's that.

The concern that was the concern and that is playing out in practice now so is it'll be super interesting to see how you balance that how do you balance just a bidding war for these these individuals. I think I masterpiece kid got like a $2 million deal or something. Don't know where he plays a lot of people realize master P was actually a high level athlete and a really good basketball player action played in the NBA for. I then asked her P would 100% beat you in a game of 21 hit that hand me to get probably at the same time did he ate the Russell two didn't didn't didn't want here Russell. I don't know there's anything messed up. He hasn't done but a son going somewhere to play basketball and got 2 million bucks out of the year. Or, I guess, and it's a year.

I don't know what it was but from somebody is masterpiece kid need to know that I'll arguably know. I wondered if it wasn't just like company that was already associated with master P was less a master P put out music that's a question I'm asked if he was after my time as a mom smack dab in the middle not slap my pop-culture references that they die off on 2003 is about as late as I go. I think maybe 01 yeah, I remember master P had his heyday and again he had heard much from them other than thing you know, non-musical related things since then, but apparently really good at making kids that are athletic and very good athlete in his own right, and at our crack research team in the background that shows me that master P actually going on tour shortly reunion. So for all of our but yet again back to the NCAA very very interesting couple other developments of Fresno State women's basketball. They have a couple of twins Hannah and Haley Cavender, and they are actually inking one of the biggest deals yet which is with boost mobile is basically an endorsement deal yet even if they work. I did people know who they work you will now. Why will now but I just in general, I just added know they I didn't know much about Fresno State used is doing a deep dive unit you don't keep up with the world of women's basketball IQ should Josh. I keep up with the Wolfpack. But if you don't play the women's Wolfpack team yeah name one player from Pres. Lincoln. One I can do it. I can name to Hannah and Haley Cavender named name a men's, women's, athlete and athlete graduated from Fresno State. I could if you put a put a gun to my head right now you tell me to do that. You tell me the name their mascot, I can't do it because so year and I think they're the Bulldogs that you know it don't all player. No offense to any of our Fresno state fan listeners all zero of you but yeah couldn't do it, but Bruce Miller boost mobile's endorsement deals can solve that problem for you. I do cut out a couple attorneys our tie we were on the conference because I was something else, but we got to talking about how this is opening up you know and you know Yorty got it is the one of things I haven't researched it all and I haven't researched every rule that the NCAA waved but as far as agent contact. Yet this is going. This is a Cisco to be a whole new I don't understand I understand what we talked about these like boost mobile's given a contract right but money coming through agents and agents having more access and there can be sleazy arrangements and they have in the past, how we get past that. I would assume all these things have happened for years placed in it it under you know under the table type of deals to be much difference other than a lot of the things can be more aboveboard and there probably will be an escalation based on the fact that these things are not permitted as well so it super interesting to see and it super interesting to look at how this may be rain back in orbit. Does this become the wild West.

Like you said, and things just get nuts and it's just an arms race and piano either Jimmy a lot of losers in my arms race is to be a lot of losers in that arms race but that's why you what is a team you look at like the pinning allegations against state Arizona mineral small potatoes to what's legal and I haven't exactly had is that Pat is how you look at that retroactively under the lens of the new regulations and rules.

I see a lot of people asking for Reggie Bush to get his Heisman back that's been one of the big things that people been pushing, which is a very interesting to see these develops a fast developing item. We may even do another update we might have. Note no limit to the number of NCAA updates and the like. We've we've mentioned in our last NCAA episode when NCAA college football videogame comes out again were dedicating an episode we should have which I have like the most boring thing that I have fun like out tournament we should greatly online and will commentate our listeners the right. If you have any questions or concerns for us here at the out wall are you can get a hold of us, 1-800-659-1186, 1-800-659-1186. Our email is Our website is the same, the outlaw, and on Facebook and Twitter. We are the outlaw will I or be back after the break. A lot has happened with the case of the North Raleigh venomous zebra cobra since we last talked about it. So let's talk about last week and it just about the time I stepped out the studio much extra stuff happened again.

The outlaw your with its finger on the pulse. The catalyst for change and in the local world and national landscape.

Just as by way of reminder week or two ago we find out there's this spitting zebra cobra on the loose and I guess we at the time we got it on lease for a week or two because of that statute and owner of a venomous reptiles was to give notice immediately once a venomous snake is as it's escaped and we find out early that happens apparently had been loose since November and we just did know about it. North Raleigh was under siege. Josh, the cobra was on the loose for seven months so every body listening. The show was in grave danger for a very long period of time without even knowing it. We solve I saw someone on my Facebook newsfeed which is how I get on my knees my Facebook newsfeed but I saw safest and most will have a way to massive your Nass also and I care. I can't remember their name, but they were very worried I had been doing some research on how snakes can how easily they can crossbreed so she is worried that we have some sort of hybrid copperhead spitting zebra cobra out there roaming around Josh, you've ruined the lives and days of several of our listeners with this thought. That's a terrifying thought man and ended after like the exotic zebra cobra is out there. The other snakes. See, it's a new type of snake there probably drawn to it. There's probably thousands of zebra cobra hybrid babies we see if you remember we talked about the statute statute you could. I think I think we talked about how the highest charge was a one misdemeanor. But there's one thing she could do so, you are it was only a venomous snake or venomous reptile as it were. Is is unlawful and lets you do certain things and so those things were keeping it in a particular case it is locked in the escape proof and it has to be labeled in and you're basically just keeping these animals for so you can look at them right or not we find out and I will mention person who is charging these 21 basis to kid me when you're older kids. To me, but he apparently the allegations as you noted on his tick-tock channel had half a million subscribers. He was let go in his backyard, doing little videos that a lot of people I guess enjoyed but so he was. They were definitely getting out of their cage and if there if they exceed their cages must notify authorities and so there's always different things you're supposed to do and if you take the allegations to be true by this young man wasn't doing any of Josh. Have you ever gone down a tick-tock hold.

I will too old for tick-tock is no wants to over think it's it's it's amazing that I personally just look for the most ridiculous.

It didn't spend 20 minutes on tick-tock and you will question society as a whole. It's amazing that that the path you can do the whole you really go down and apparently have snake guy on there as well, since they guys is nothing compared to some of the things you will see on tick-tock if you spend enough time will snake guy was making a means I'm assuming he was making money you advertise on these yet.

I'm not familiar enough to to know how people are monetizing this, but my assumption is yes it's it's monetized based on a number of views he probably has other social media outlets, and he just kinda funnels everything back in for but ultimately we speculated a lot we talked about the law we talked about how words we talked about the fact that we were blown away that it was just a misdemeanor if someone was was injured by this animal and and actually that is the case here, but we have 40 misdemeanor counts is what this gentleman is charged with and they ultimately confiscated some 75 snakes from his home. That's about 75 too many snakes. Yet the you know, just, and we we we thought that maybe that would be coming, that a statute doesn't get broadened public view. Very often just kinda sits there when it's needed and we can talk about some of the bottom of the world looking for light the statute what really was. It didn't go far enough. We thought what we thought it was. It was a little, and I think some congressmen have a maybe agreed with us because there's a couple of congressmen here trying to push through bill to ban all non-native snake sounded it will get the support they need. Another might be some they got my support to have my undying and unwavering support, but under there. They under their statute is just doing have the option to keep him and current snake odors can be grandfathered in which death registers snakes you have to carry additional insurance which makes sense to me makes great sense that I don't I don't is to be the case. But if you're keeping a venomous snake in your house and bite someone who visit your house or get sound bite someone I'm pretty sure there's no coverage there. Look man look to be honest with you.

Everybody has their hobbies.

People like their own things people like strange things I can't get into the headspace of the venomous snake owner but I'm not going to knock them because they might do that EA could be. Listen, I would love you we we love each individual listener.

If we have a you if we do have a listener who owns a venomous snake.

I would really want you to contact us and tell us why you yeah and again not knocking you because as we look at these things from a neutral, unbiased perspective, so but but I would be very interested to know the appeal because, again, especially you can't. I guess you can handle the snakes. But why, why would you want to spend a lot of time handling them and it just it's something that doesn't make a ton of sense to me but again we we love our listeners and if we have these venomous snake owning listeners.

Please reach out. Give us your thoughts. We will take a neutral and unbiased look at the you the reasoning behind doing so because again people have different hobbies and how not to knock anybody's hobby but I do think legislation is necessary here and and like you said, I don't know that it goes far enough and I don't think it's a bad idea to expand that legislation and I hope you know we criminal laws is is a tricky is a tricky thing to talk about is her dog and I'm not real people. And there's real consequences. I don't even know what a judge would do with if you're found guilty on 40 misdemeanor counselors like three months account her.

I don't let these are people you know. Maybe this guy made a mistake it had me apprised I can do this again early is not doing North Carolina you want to ruin someone's life but I was later used to be a felony in there somewhere. Yeah, I cannot. Here's what here's what I meant to propose to play legislate tour right now I'm proposing a bill to ban the crossbred copperhead zebra spitting cobra yeah and spreads more people if it's that easy to crossbreed snakes. More people have in the if you AI at Ya just shutter the next.

It's terrible, but but seriously even notice that were talking about unity don't you don't have to own a snake, but this is you know when they look at his new statute may entertain just baiting the ability to own such a snake may make sense to me but you're still doing that badly. Not every statute in every case that that a court looks at your balancing things so you hear its public welfare versus private freedom.

And you know you really you know, at least the way I look at is I never want take any freedom away from anybody, even if that freedom may sound somewhat silly, not constitutionally permitted to know about constitutional right to own a venomous snake. That's the 28th amendment Josh so we're worried I'm not trying to a mountain out of a mole hill here but you I you always got to get serious when you're telling someone evil we decide you can't do this. This is illegal because a lot of times it feels like there's a lot of stuff is legal it maybe should be illegal yet that's true but but on the scale of things that maybe should be illegal. I think that we put in an SNA ownership up there towards the top. You know I was doing I was doing my exhaustive research I research every show exhaustively and I was doing checking out some historical documentaries about snakes and there's one it's called Anaconda, starring J low in ice cube and got John Voight in their and you learn a lot of things about that and and venomous snakes are not one of my things.

That's what I learned from watching that movie usually watch a lot of movies are Commies, Joe, but I did see that movie on a first date, whenever that was. I remember that as big as a big one when it came out and I don't know that it's up stood the test of time.

There like it like there should, but a cautionary tale about traveling in the Amazon. What if you want if you want to.

If you have any questions or comments.

Are you do own a venomous snake.

I we we were in being facetious.

We really like to hear from you and you know how it up I guess how the pets they are assuming a cuddle up with your nothing but you know, to the extent that you enjoy having one we'd love to hear from you, but you get us 1-800-659-1186 that's 1-800-659-1186. Our email is website is the and on Facebook and Twitter. Again, the outlaw lawyer coming up next on the outlaw your we are going to talk about some recent anti-protest legislation and what it means for the future. Josh, let's talk about protest in the last couple of years we have seen a pretty steep rise in protest lease media coverage of protests and you know protests are really nothing new. They've existed, presumably since the beginning of time and in overtime. They've taken various shapes and forms.

You have peaceful sit ins you got the guy that handcuffs himself to retrieve your tractor did not get it to cut down the rain forest and then you have the complete opposite extreme of that which we seen a lot recently which is just the more violent Bernie of burn things type of protesting borderline writing essentially and you know anytime. Talk about protest you're talking about your talking about subject matter that was important enough to someone to protest because that's what that's what always you know me and me and Joe spent a lot of time at the office as attorneys do. I had a at a law school dean who would always talk about what he does have a sword of Damocles that does that ring a bell for some reason it rings a bell mean Joe both went to Campbell were we when their different times and had different deans and and things but always talk about how to allow the law is a jealous mistress and you're always right underneath the sword of Damocles I still know what that means exactly have a general, it sounds great and I want to go home, say it to my children and I want to confuse them in, but hopefully will take something from it, but we we talk about your we spent a lifetime else it always it always surprises me when something is important enough for someone to take time out of their life, whatever their life may consist of the protestants always assume here that if someone's taking the time to do that.

That's a name that's an important issue to them and probably something that we should be cognizant it out because I can't think about what would be important enough to get me to like leave the office for day and in protest.

Yeah, yeah, I think there's two act two types of people, there's the protesters and then there's the people like you, Joshua, who it would take a lot to get you up in arms and care enough to to go do that and having one thing we seen recently you had, you know these kind of professional protesters are just downright I guess you could call them agitators, people who probably don't care that much about the cause, necessarily, but especially with Cove.

It would lock down a lot of people who had a lot of free time. Not much to do and I'm paying a while. There's probably a lot of people who genuinely believe in these causes, and who were there, you know to support that you probably have a lot of people as well who were just who were just there for just to have something to do or in worst case scenarios did to cause trouble into the just kind of act while essentially so weak and you can always look anytime you have a big protester are you in the law that law enforcement has get involved in people.

Arrest is always interesting to go look at the evening you look at the mugshots and stuff. They're all public record where people are from, or at least on their license or an identification where they gave they were from and it's always interesting. See especially that we know where North Carolina a lot of people will be from yeah and I think that's it that's that's a thing we've really seen recently people coming from out of state and it's almost like you.

Like we said, professional protesters like we as you said spent a lot of time in the office, I imagine a lot of our listener spent a lot of time in their respective offices are in their respective fields.


Spending time with their families and so like you it's it's hard for me especially to imagine someone who can just literally attend several protest in separate states and and it just it's not something that I can really comprehend, but I think we see a lot of that these days and get some of those people genuinely care enough to do your absolute and were not knocking those people but but there's also probably some who are just doing it for some politically motivated purpose or for some just to have have something to do. Essentially, I think the political motivation, especially in the coverage of recent protest is something that's important to note because we have seen a lot of media coverage of that and you get it's it's so interesting we talked about in the past, how different news outlets look at different things in the way that they characterize things and you really have to, look at an amalgamation of various sources to get the truth and you can have one news outlet calling something the worst most damaging horrible thing and then another calling it just an essentially peaceful protest and it's just it's mind-boggling how you have this disconnect yet it's it's it's a broad disconnect. I think you can really eat over the past couple of years you can you can really you can really see it in his just it's hard to figure out what happened.

That's why always go will who got arrested and what it what were they charged with what was the pros who organize the privately always, have to spend some time like trying to get out try to get to the bottom of it. Actually figure out what happen because yeah yeah Deborah W REL the news and Observer and you know whatever blogs you may look at like you to get like 89 versions of the same event and no one can agree on what they've it was what it was called how it happened and you can't trust any. That's why I encourage everyone to did not believe anything just don't have a belief but but serious like that you look at it factually, like, we can look factually and you can see that there are actually people injured arrested outright kill that some of these protest so I think factually speaking we can say and we seen property clearly destroyed and damaged so there are some of these protest that are turning violent and that are turning just a little bit out of hand or a lot of it at hand and and I think that's where we get to the topic of this anti-protest legislation.

Note a lot of it's been politicized and through that politicization of these issues you have seen this legislation. There's been a lot of people who have called for the need for new legislation to protect businesses and individuals in the kind curb the more violent tenor of some of these protest and so that's kinda how we get to where we are today.

So, according to our crack research team here at outlaw your lawmakers in 34 states have introduced more than 80 anti-protest bills so far in the 2021 legislative session. We can't talk about all of them but we will talk about a few of them that have been a little bit more prominent in the news and the first were going to talk about is actually the legislation that was recently introduced in Florida, Gov. Ron DeSantis signed an antiriot bill in the law and it basically states in part that a driver can avoid liability for injury or death calls if fleeing from safety for safety from a mob. So basically, a person can in the act of fleeing from a mob smashed into a pedestrian, or property, potentially, and avoid civil liability for the injury or death that's caused many times has come up that are not as interesting so I'll ask you a couple questions just first of all is this legislation constitutional and and does it infringe on an individual's First Amendment right to peacefully protest 40 think it's a necessary deterrent to kinda combat that violence. I think you hit the nail and hit. How may times that come up yet is one thing that that want to do a whole show on on legislation that gets past that you got a wonder is is this even really necessary. It is this even really a thing that that has happened or needs to be addressed, like venomous snakes laying out yet is necessary. There is no more Nessus.

We have learned is necessary, but here he raises several questions I think were to happen, look at it. I think in the end were spent a lot of time talking about how the First Amendment and the interplay with between civil liberties and necessary regulation of constitutional rights protect Publix again. All the law is is a balance you know we got these things there always, at each other and you're just trying to find the proper balance of that's kind of what's going on here. Yeah, we talk about that balance a lot so you in a nutshell. This new legislation in Florida.

It proposes that immunize people who were involved in car accidents from driving basically through a crowd at a protest in these individuals, they'd be immunize from civil liability for any danger at any damage. Rather, that's because as a result of fleeing that protest so we look at the headlines that have come out surrounding this law kind of in a vacuum and you just read immunity for individuals plowing over people at a protest economy to pause and think. That doesn't sound right but there's actually some pretty interesting nuances of the law that will take a look at so many are forcing me to look at is the constitutionality of the law itself suffer and analyze the statute would we think this would pass muster. If it was challenged before the Supreme Court.

So here you were talking to him about the First Amendment. How does this interplay with the First Amendment. The First Amendment protects free speech, among other things, and when you when the court looks at regulating a person's free speech. They take that seriously, so they apply what we call a strict scrutiny analysis and these regulations must be limited to time, place and manner so as we talk more about the Supreme Court master talks more about this, shall seek that's the top that's it. That's the highest form of scrutiny by the Supreme Court can give item that comes before it exactly and so one thing about his new Florida law that sets actually pretty interesting, as it actually creates a new type of crime which is just basically dubbed mob intimidation and mob intimidation and short just makes it unlawful for any three people to meet together to use the threat of force to force another person to assume or abandon the point of view. So it's basically a new crime they created right so right off the bat here. The first thing that strikes me about this new crime is that the level of leeway and discretion. It gives the police and prosecutors to declare what a mob is that definition is is not precise, it seems like there's a lot of potential to abuse this gives me used to charge anybody's protesting you and three buddies go in and and complain about something and yet there is a lot of leeway there and it is it is kind of vague and if you take that aspect of the law, you combine it with the grant of civil immunity to people who drive through protesters. The bill almost starts to sound insane yeah well it may be the way the media has covered this to.

It sounds it sounds crazy, but as we can look at the nuts and bolts of it. It yeah I guess you can look at it from the side that it's really only taking civil liability out of the picture. If a person was hurt is convicted of a juror is convicted by jury. The felony of rioting.

Yeah, so it doesn't you know it it it it it when you when you look at the bones of the law.

It's not as crazy as it sounds, because like you said there's a bar there, so it's not like I can we can get in her car and in smashed people in a protest and get away with with no issue.

You have to have the individual that you injure so the person that you run over literally has to be convicted by a jury of the felony of rioting so you not talking about someone just smashing through peaceful protests there is a bar there, and it's a relatively high bar before that plaintiff's gonna lose their cause of action against the person who just smash them so anybody listening that was planning on smashing through a crowd of protesters. That's really the thing that's that's are the sort of the danger with the media coverage because the headlines all focus in on that aspect that they don't give the context they don't get the nuance and if you have people who don't look into these things more closely you could have people who read this and potentially get that impression and I wanted to say that there's a lot of people out there who are that uninformed and unintelligent our listeners that studies have shown are some of the smartest listeners in the history of broadcast radio, but there are people who are uninformed out there and here there is some danger there. I think to that the media coverage of these this new legislation, the unit, you never know how far this will get batting. Once this gets in front of a court. Some of these provisions are in a make yeah thing is a strong likelihood that a lot of a lot of these provisions get struck down because again it's very vague and one thing that we will have a ton of time to talk about is the fact that the real intent and and not necessarily the intent but the effect at least of these laws is it's going to deter protest, which is an exercise that First Amendment right and anytime you have any kind of deterrence of that First Amendment right the court like you said looks at it was strict scrutiny and really doesn't like to implement too many barriers to that right because it is like we set an unalienable right well I'm sure I'm sure soon as we leave the studio. Joseph will be some important updates of this that will have to address later yeah at at with the prevalence of the protest and that the note it seems like it's it's calm down a little bit lately. The political climate. I guess just the climate in general has been a little bit more calm, but almost assuredly, we will see more of this and we will see more developments and will see more states adopting things like this and we will we will follow it closely. Next up on the al-Awlaki or we talk about estate planning horror story and look at why you yes you are listener need to contact an attorney to review and pay your estate plan ASAP. Joshua, we have talked a lot on the show about estate planning. We have talked a lot on the show about the need for our listeners.

Anybody even people who don't listen, should we care about them to to consult a qualified licensed North Carolina attorney to prepare your estate plan or to review existing estate plan. If there's been any kind of changes that have occurred in your life and today we are going to talk about one of the many. There are many nightmare scenarios that can occur if you don't heed this sage advice is right Joe, we can't really emphasize that enough. You know it's it's one of things no one wants to do kind of morbid to think about a I tell people you know I graduated from law school back in in 03 course contract my own will have no attorneys fees whatsoever still to me like seven years to draft my estate plan I was doing it myself so it's I certainly understand the reluctance in doing it and no one really wants to think about it, but we knew we see that we see it when you're when your time comes and you're gone. The amused people that you love that are picking up the pieces that they have to just figure things out where your bank accounts. I was going to jail in his car.

You any credit cards. I mean there's a lot to figure out once you're gone yet there is and the estate plan is it for you because you're gone like it's you don't care what you do care because it's your loved ones because that's who's gonna have to pick up the pieces, they're already dealing with so much that you don't want to have to put anything else on them in the goal of your estate plan should always be make things as easy as seamless and as stress-free as possible for the people that you leave behind because again it's already going to be one of the most difficult times of their lives and the less they have to worry, the less they have to think the less they have to pull together because they're already having a difficult time, the better it's going to be in the best way to do this to consult with an experienced licensed attorney in order to accomplish that goal.

So as you guys know Joe and I are partners at the law firm of Whitaker and Hamer. And so we have several attorneys that spend a lot of time just on estate planning and estate administration, and so you can get in contact with them. 1-800-659-1186, 1-800-659-1186.

Remember that line is set up to take your message so make be sure to leave his contact information and know what you're trying to accomplish and one of our attorneys or paralegals or staff will reach out to you to see if maybe our firm can be of help to you but it need you don't know when your times up and you have a client in the other day who's 94 and great shape gets arounds, awesome, awesome client and we're just making some changes were just fine-tuning some of his charitable bequest he wants to make it.

Just making sure everything is in tune and ready to go and what you you know me and Joey might make it back next week. You never know yeah and and we obviously will plan on living forever, but it's is not the case in you. It's important. It's important to have an estate plan review and just having a will or trust may not be enough. You really need an attorney take a comprehensive look at all of your assets at your entire estate plan and make sure that every single thing you have in place is working towards one cohesive goal which is just to make the transition easier for the people that you leave behind on so here's the scenario. Josh mom tragically passes away after a short battle with cancer. So this comes up on everybody quickly.

She is survived by her adult daughter and her beloved husband, so most spouses leave most if not all of their assets to their spouse. That's what they generally do. But that's not what mom wanted to do here because she and her husband had only married relatively recently and he wasn't the father of her adult daughter says she was. This is a second second spouse exactly so is her mom wanted the money she received from her in an inheritance to goaded her daughter instead of her husband, which again is perfectly legal and the husband to get guys on board with this plan but when mom died, the money that was supposed to go to her daughter instead goes to her husband wise that the case Josh will to question Joseph. It turns out that the accounts the inherited money was and did not have proper, payable on death designation, so all mom's assets were swept into her probate a bowl estate which went to the husband under the mom's will.

So husband got everything and and the daughter got nothing now husband could be a good decent person and honor.

Mom stated wishes to get the inheritance in the hands of the daughter bits and take time and energy it can have tax consequences. It's not to be as easy as if everything had just been organized right when she got diagnosed with cancer yeah and so you know in this situation you know this. This situation crept up on mom quickly and she you know you either didn't have a will in place that stated what she wanted to have happen and you know that the intestate statutes took over. She did have a will and just wasn't up to date with her current intentions and again we talked about the fact that you need a review of your estate plan so you know this.

This could have potentially been accomplished with proper drafting of the will, but it also could have been accomplished and this is why again we talk about the fact that a trust or estate may not be enough.

It could have been easily accomplished by reviewing your situation and just changing the payable on death designation to her daughter and that again avoids probate and and it's it's arguably the easiest way to handle the situation. You have always said I think it amazes people when we sit down and we talk about an estate plan. We talk about assets that would be in probate assets that would be outside of probate. But how easy it is to keep things out of there. Some things are hard to keep out of probate.

Some things are easy, but your checking or savings account I got is good on the bank and change her signature card designation add someone to it as a joint with right of survivorship, payable on death, like Joseph said you can have it directed and that doesn't go into your state yeah and so I think the lesson and reset it countless times. It's really you need constant vigilance in making sure that your estate plan is current and that it's updated and it's been reviewed by license attorney, the husband and the situation could've taken the money and run.

Could not been a very decent guy or in kind of an inverse of this nightmare scenario say that mom didn't draft your will to state that this money should've gone to her daughter but then let's say that the bank has a payable on death designation in favor of her husband. Then again, those funds are subject to probate or knocking a pastor not to be a part of the estate and is the exact same situation and again that's a result of not having an experienced qualified attorney critically looking at every single aspect of your assets and every single aspect of your estate plan into the old switcheroo that I do the switcheroo we try to keep you on your toes here at the alloy or wheat we see that a lot that's easy. So we you know what times you hear that, I said second spouse earlier year term blended families, but if you have you if you're married to someone who is not the father or mother of your children the statutes of North Carolina in a favor your spouse if you do nothing, a lot of stuff goes to your spouse and maybe that's fine. Maybe you want to make sure stuff we have a lot of socially blended families were each each partner in that in that marriage are bringing kids from a previous relationship. You really got to sit down. You gotta think about what you want to happen, you know, like, okay, I usually kill when I have a consolation kill them if it's a man and a woman. I killed a man all first cousin and dies makes perfect sense right.

Some like what what do you need to get to your spouse so that they can maintain their their current no way of life and still get some stuff to your kids because there's no guarantee that that spouses gonna leave anything to your kids yeah and it all depends on relationships and but once you're gone, you're gone. And if you don't direct your assets to where you want to go if they all go to your your your new spouse and then there some following out later and that money may never make it to your kids depending you never know you want to speak ill of people, but you know attorneys we always assume the worst case right so we assume like the day after you pass away your current spouse and your kids are not getting along anymore safe assumption and yeah and then will what happens in will nothing you know nothing happens there's no you can't make someone agree to give certain assets to your kids out. Anyway, there's a lot to take in. There's a lot to think about, and it's really easy for us, myself included, on my own personal estate plan to not think about it, but if you have any questions or concerns rest of the show. Joe and I would love to hear from you from you if you contact outlaw lawyers wanting hundred 659-1186, 1-800-659-1186.

You can email us visit for archived episodes or engage with us on Facebook and twitter at the outlaw lawyer Joe, as always. I've enjoyed it. Look forward next week. Thank you Josh and thank you to each and every one of our listeners individually care deeply about all of you as an attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina. Some of the guests appearing on the show.

Maybe license North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show is meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered.

Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live. Have the opportunity to discuss the facts of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly

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