Joe Rogan, I Can Help You! And the Pushback Continues

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Yes, this is how we rise up together standing firm, saying yes to the Lord, no to the pressures of the world, honoring God and looking for his approval more than the approval of people. Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast. Delighted to be with you. Here's the number to call. Anything you want to talk to me about today, any questions you want to raise, phone lines are open 866-342-866-348-7884 is the number to call. We have a lot of ground to cover today.

I've got an interesting proposal I put out in writing and I want to talk about it on the air that could educate millions and millions of listeners and viewers beyond this broadcast. So I'm going to share that in a moment and then as I've promised, we talked about 2022 is the year where our mentality needs to be as followers of Jesus. This is the year for taking ground. Now this is the year to be depressed and discouraged and things are getting worse and worse. Whatever's happening around us, we have our calling, we have our responsibility and I'm here to encourage you and help you to grow in health and strength so that you can make an impact in the world in which you live so that you can be stable and strong in the midst of chaos and crisis so that your faith can hold on when the faith of others is losing ground. I'm here to encourage you and help you stand strong in Jesus name. And our guarantee, you tune in on a regular basis and you will get a regular dose of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. That is our pledge to you.

So I'm going to be giving you more examples of pushback, of taking ground in our society today. One quick thing because I have to say it with our theme song, our new theme song with Skillet the Resistance. So John Cooper, who's the front man for Skillet, contacted me a few weeks ago and said, hey, we're going to be in Charlotte. Just realized Winter Jam.

Are you close to that? I said, yeah, and I'm in town. We said, great, you know, bring some of your people and get to hang out. So I was able to spend, I don't know, three, four hours with John and his wife, Corey, and then Seth, the guitarist, Jen, the drummer, spent hours with them answering questions and pouring in and talking, interacting about a lot of subjects. So we just, we have a great relationship as we're getting to know them and be friends and work together.

And I get to pour in in different ways and they do what they do and such a blessing. John did a great interview on Fox and Friends. I think it was Fox and Friends in the morning and sent it to me the other day.

Just clear, strong word. I said, man, you're speaking with a prophetic voice to the nation. But the last song, I think it was the last song of their set, The Resistance, they end with our theme song here. And when they went to do it, he gave a shout out to me.

There are maybe 5,000 people in Bojangles Coliseum. But he texted me, we're going back and forth, texting after, he said, this is your song, baby. But the thing that I got to kick out was here, we're here at Live with thousands of people, all the lights show and the whole thing that they do and then come in and hear it again. So that's just sweet. It adds, it adds to it. But in Jesus' name, we will continue to take ground. And the best way we do it is getting our own lives in order, getting right with God, turning away from things that are sinful, objectionable, polluting.

They're going to hurt us and they're going to hurt others. And then as we press into God in prayer and the word, we build ourselves up and then we share the gospel with others. The most effective way to undercut what Satan's doing is to win people to Jesus and help them be disciples. And we do it primarily not to push back against Satan. He's not our focus.

We do it primarily because we love God and we love people. All right. So if you know who Joe Rogan is, then you're well aware of this. But for those who don't, let me introduce him really quickly. I first saw him years ago on the show Fear Factor. I didn't watch much of it, but segment here and there, I saw he was the host of it. And then I'd hear his voice here and there as a UFC commentator.

So a mixed martial arts commentator. And then I found out that he was a comedian who performed to standing room only crowds around America. Didn't know that part. And then found out he had a podcast that's been growing for years and is far and away the number one podcast in the world right now.

We're certainly in the English language and number one and leads in like 93 different fields or something like that. Read that yesterday from the CEO of Spotify, which has the first rights to his podcast. In fact, paid a hundred million dollars to get it.

That's what he's getting annually for. Is that how it works? Anyway, anyway, I've never listened to much of it. Only little segments here and there.

One reason being that the shows are really long. That's what people like. They just talk freely back and forth. And he's got a lot of interesting guests on, but he uses the F word a lot. It's just part of his vocabulary. Like it was mine before I was a believer. When I got saved at 16 and changed, then I realized it shouldn't be part of my vocabulary. Just normal life for him and for many others. So I'm not judging him for using the F word.

It's just, it's not my favorite thing to listen to all the time if I can make a choice about it. One thing you've got a coworker that's profane, you're sharing the gospel with them. They talk the way they talk. But anyway, so I didn't realize how big he was until maybe a few years ago. I was like, wow, what an incredible reach. So when he gets COVID last year, he says, Hey, excuse me, had one bad day, but my doctor prescribed ivermectin and this, this, this, you know, we hit it with everything and I'm, you know, I'm good. I'm back to normal.

So he came under tremendous attack. You're using a horse dewormer. How do you use a horse dewormer? And that's for veterinarians to prescribe for animals.

And what are you doing? And so he pushed back and says, what are you talking about? It's been used for years. The one who developed it for, for human use, got a Nobel prize for it. In his view, it's, it's treated billions of people around the world, but certainly many hundreds of millions and, and it worked well. And he said, Hey, it was prescribed for me by a doctor. He even had Dr. Sanjay Gupta on from CNN cause CNN really blasted him a lot. And he had Sanjay Gupta on and he said, was it right to, to say what CNN said the way they said it? And Sanjay Gupta was, you know, it was apologetic for that part. In any case, he then had some guests on who were highly respected doctors who one of them helped develop a vaccine that MRNA was similar to the COVID vaccine. So he was a pro-vaccine guy, but had grave issues with the COVID vax and grave issues with his government policies and things like that.

Dr. Robert Malone, another Dr. Robert Peter McCullough. So he had these doctors on and especially the Malone interview went completely viral. And as a result of that, now it's like you're spreading disinformation and you're hurting people. Now I could understand that if you believe that false information is, is being disseminated, that could literally cost people their lives. Well, that's a major issue, but you don't refuse to give people the freedom to speak because we have those rights to do that.

Like I could get up on the radio and say, in my opinion, drinking four bottles of water a day will cure colds. You know, something like I'm allowed to say that, right? You said it's the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. Fine. Good. Great.

You can say, man, I'm not listening to you anymore. You just say stupid stuff. Fine. All good. But you can't take me off the radio because I gave you my opinion about a particular thing or interviewed some doctor who said, oh yeah, if you pour the water over your head three times, that'll deal with, you know, I think it might deal with bulbous, you know, you, okay.

You can do that kind of stuff, right? Unless you're giving official claiming to be a doctor, giving official medical advice in a formal way. Fine. He didn't do that. He's just interviewing these people. So there's an outrage.

It's been growing. I mean, even all the way up to the White House and, and press secretary, Jen Psaki speaking out against Rogan's platform. So Neil Young, famous rocker, old rocker now, maybe late seventies, eighties, somewhere around there. He tells Spotify, you take Rogan off or I'm pulling my music.

They said, we're staying with Rogan. Well then Joni Mitchell, same thing, another old, old rocker, same deal. And many are saying, hey, weren't you like the freedom people? Weren't you like the hippie people? Weren't you like the counterculture people? And now, so it's, it's interesting just to see how people's ideology shift. Interesting Larry Clapton, who never really got involved in a lot of social political issues when, when he got vaccinated and was fearful that he'd never recover from the effects of the vaccination and couldn't use his hands for a little while. He's a world famous guitarist. He's now come out against the mandates and it's like, what happened, Eric Clapton?

So, so it's interesting how people are coming out in unexpected ways in their seventies or close to 80 that, you know, opposite ways of what you'd expect. In any case with the negative publicity, then Spotify stocks took a big hit and it was like $2.7 billion and all of this, even though the music boycott was pretty minor, just the controversy surrounding it. So Joe Rogan issues like a nine minute talk. I say issues, part of it's an apology, part of it's just explanation. So I'm going to play the first clip now. This is Joe Rogan after this whole thing is getting so controversial. By the way, the plot plot thickens a whole lot. Sorry guys, the plot thickens a whole lot from here. All right. A lot has happened and then Spotify has taken a stand with Joe Rogan. Interestingly. All right. Listen to what he said.

I want to make this video first of all, because I think there's a lot of people that have a distorted perception of what I do, maybe based on sound bites or based on headlines of articles that are disparaging. The podcast has been accused of spreading dangerous misinformation, specifically about two episodes, a little bit about some other ones, but specifically about two, one with Dr. Peter McCullough and one with Dr. Robert Malone. Dr. Peter McCullough is a cardiologist and he is the most published physician in his field in history. Dr. Robert Malone owns nine patents on the creation of MRNA vaccine technology and is at least partially responsible for the creation of the technology that led to MRNA vaccines. Both these people are very highly credentialed, very intelligent, very accomplished people, and they have an opinion that's different from the mainstream narrative.

I wanted to hear what their opinion is. I had them on and because of that, those episodes in particular, those episodes were labeled as being dangerous they had dangerous misinformation in them. All right, so that's the first thing. He says, look, I had these guys on, they're highly credentialed, they had another opinion.

Am I allowed to do that? Is a contrary opinion allowed to be expressed? See, one of the issues that's clouded the whole question about the vaccine because you say, well, why wouldn't we want something that's helpful that can save lives? And I believe in many cases it's been very helpful and saved many lives. It's been so mixed in with this government overreach, with this media censorship, with mandates, with not giving churches equal rights to others.

The whole thing's gotten so mixed that it's difficult to just step back and sort things out. But I've got a great proposal that'll help us do just that today. Stay here. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us, friends, On The Line of Fire. Full minds are open a little while. I'm going to get your calls 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-87884. All subjects open when we do get to the calls in a little while. Friends, let me encourage you, if you have not yet preordered your signed numbered copy, collector's edition of The Silencing of the Lambs, The Ominous Rise of Cancel Culture and How We Can Overcome It, if you've not yet preordered, let me encourage you to go today to our website AskDrBrown.org.

AskDrBrown.org. It's a beautiful hardcover with an absolutely stunning cover. Best cover I've seen on years and years. Maybe the best cover ever on one of my books. It's a stunning cover. I tell you, the book's even better than the cover.

Hopefully, yeah, you'll agree with me. When I was writing it, I go through shocking, devastating things in our culture. I mean, you'd be shocked by how far our campuses have shifted to the left. You might know a lot, but when you read this, you'll be shocked. The depth of what's happened with big tech censorship.

I mean, it's really scary stuff. And how good causes, like standing up for African-Americans and standing up for equality, how things get misused, how the enemy then comes in and takes a good cause and goes to extremes, which then bring damage in other ways. As we're trying to stand out for what's right, then others come in with their agenda. We expose it. We expose all the key things, but we spend most of the chapters in the book saying, here's what you can do. Here's how you can stand. Here's where you can make a difference.

Be it as a parent, be it as a professor, be it as a preacher. So you can go to askdrbrown.org. Now you can go anywhere else and order the hardcover or the ebook or the audible book and it'll be out, should be out early next month. But this is the only place where you can get the signed numbered copies. So I encourage you to do that and order as many as you want. Just let us know if you want them signed to.

If you get five, tell us this one for this one. And I will personally sign each one. It's my joy to do it with a new book that comes out. Okay. So Joe Rogan is further explaining, Hey, I've had both sides on my show. And my issue is what you are deeming quote misinformation.

Let's go back to Joe Rogan. The problem I have with the term misinformation, especially today, is that many of the things that we thought of as misinformation just a short while ago are now accepted as fact. Like for instance, eight months ago, if you said, if you get vaccinated, you can still catch COVID and you can still spread COVID. You'd be removed from social media. They would, they would ban you from certain platforms. Now that's accepted as fact. If you said, I don't think cloth masks work, you would be banned from social media. Now that's openly and repeatedly stated on CNN. If you said, I think it's possible that COVID-19 came from a lab, you'd be banned from many social media platforms.

Now that's on the cover of Newsweek. All of those theories that at one point in time were banned, were openly discussed by those two men that I had on my podcast that have been accused of dangerous misinformation. I do not know if they're right. I don't know because I'm not a doctor. I'm not a scientist. I'm just a person who sits down and talks to people and has conversations with them. Do I get things wrong?

Absolutely. I get things wrong, but I try to correct them. Whenever I get something wrong, I try to correct it because I'm interested in telling the truth. I'm interested in finding out what the truth is. And I'm interested in having interesting conversations with people that have differing opinions. I'm not interested in only talking to people that have one perspective. That's one of the reasons why I had Sanjay Gupta on, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who I respect very much. And I really enjoyed our conversation together.

He has a different opinion than those men do. I had Dr. Michael Osterholm on at the very beginning of the pandemic. He is on President Biden's COVID-19 advisory board. I had Dr. Peter Hotez on, who is a vaccine expert. I'm interested in finding out what is correct and also finding out how people come to these conclusions and what the facts are.

All right. So if you turn in, tune in to say, Sean Hannity, you know what you're going to get. Conversely, if you turn into Rachel Maddow, Rachel Maddow, tune into her broadcast. So Fox, MSNBC, you know what you're going to get, right? In other words, they have a particular mindset, particular political mindset, particular conservative, liberal mindset, you know, one conservative, one liberal. Joe Rogan is not an ideologue in that sense. Even John Stewart, the comedian, had said that about him, that he, I'm sure he has certain views, but he's not taking having these guests on like Robert Malone and others because he's conservative or because he's just anti-vaxx or something. So that's why it's like, hey, I'll fix it or I'll try to be more balanced if I have one controversial guy on. I'll have some of the other viewpoint and okay, great, good, good.

Excuse me. I want to go one step further with that. But here is the latest drama. So famous actor and former professional wrestler, The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, weighed in after Joe Rogan's video and he said, great stuff here, brother, perfectly articulated. And he was looking forward to coming on the show one day and breaking out the tequila with him.

All right, well then another video compilation goes public. And this one is Joe Rogan 12 years ago and before using the N-word on his show, which he did frequently. If he's quoting somebody, he used it like some former comedian, he just say it. Or if someone said, you shouldn't use this word, he would just say it rather than call it the N-word.

So you put it all together and it's, you know, it sounds really bad. I didn't listen to the compilation, but he said it's the most regretful, shameful thing he's ever had to apologize for publicly. And he realizes he doesn't own the word as a white man. It's not for him to choose how to use it. And he understands how offensive that would be. That's why he stopped using it years ago, even while quoting others, et cetera. And he apologizes, all right, so someone lets Dwayne Johnson know about that, copies him and lets him know about it. And he says this, thank you so much for this.

I hear you as well as everyone here, 100%. It was also Don Winslow who tagged him. And he said, I was not aware of his N-word use prior to my comments, but now I've become educated to his complete narrative learning moment for me. It was like, Hey, I, I can't stand with this guy. He didn't formally retract what he said, but it's basically, he backed down his, his comments and Rogan had said, I know that to most people, there's no context where a white person is ever allowed to say that nevermind publicly on podcast.

I agree with that. Now I haven't said it in years. And again, he said, it's the most regretful, shameful thing he's ever had to address in a public setting. The only problem with this mentality where people get things wrong, where people offend realize, Hey, I understand I'll do better.

I apologize. The only problem with this culture, which that's not enough, you're gone away with you canceled done. The only problem is what goes around comes around. That's one of my issues with hyper criticism in the church that to the degree you judge others in the way you judge others, you're ultimately going to be judged back. And now I'm watching the critics, sniping at each other, attacking each other and thinking what, what are we doing?

God help us. So look, Dwayne Johnson was a world famous professional wrestler. He was one of the biggest superstars in wrestling in decades, right? If you know anything about professional wrestling, it's not politically correct. Like you might be having some, some conflict with another country, right? Maybe, you know, cold war with Russia. So you get the one guy is the Russian athlete. It doesn't matter. Well, you know, they give him a Russian name and have him try to speak with a Russian accent, or maybe he really is Russian, you know, and then it wrong, but everybody bullying and hating on the guy and everything is stereotyped.

All right. I mean, you had a guy years and years ago named gorgeous, George arrested, come out in a robe acting as if he was gay. I have no idea about his private life, but everybody mocking him.

This is obviously you couldn't do that now, but wrestling is famously not PC. And over the years, certain sensitivities have been accepted and acted on, but video surfaces of Dwayne Johnson talking to another wrestling superstar. And, and he is say, I'll tell it, I'll say it to you in Chinese to make sure you get it. And he's mocking the Chinese language. Now it's like, there's nothing to it.

Right. And it's been posted on YouTube for years, just to some funny thing. Then he says, if you don't understand me, I'll tell it to you in Swedish. And then he does this caricature, you know, just mocking the language and how it sounds to an American.

Okay. It's stupid, but it's, it's no big deal. It's just stupid. But these days, Oh no, the, how could the rock criticize Rogan when the rock is so insensitive when Dwayne Johnson is so insensitive. And from there, the plot continues to thicken because they find that another video where he calls another wrestler, he uses the word retarded, but the noun that's how he refers to him. So that, that now is crossing another line. And then he refers to another wrestler, John Cena, as I'm just quoting his words, a bloated transvestite wonder woman. So now there are calls to cancel Dwayne Johnson calls to cancel Dwayne Johnson.

Yeah. So this is what happens as opposed to someone saying, you know, that was bad or stupid, or I shouldn't have said that, boy, that was offensive or Hey, I didn't mean anything by it, but I'll be more sensitive. Please forgive me. Or the K I don't mean anything by it. Just accept that.

Or wow, that was terrible. Please forgive me. And I'm really searching my heart.

How could I have ever done something like that? Whatever the Apollo, whatever the nature of the pod, and then you move on, you forgive, you educate, you move on. Well, the head of Spotify, Daniel Eck has now spoken out and said, we're not canceling Joe Rogan.

He's the number one podcaster by far in the world. And if you're going to start canceling, which you don't like, you got to cancel everybody. We come back. I'm going to share a few of his quotes with you and give you my proposal for Joe Rogan that could really help educate the masses. And I'm going to take some calls as well. And that's a great time to call in 866-348-7884. Be sure to go to askdoctorbrown.org and pre-order your signed and every copy of The Silencing of the Lambs. You'll be among the first to get it. Trust me, you will be blessed and you will be stirred. It's The Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on The Line of Fire by calling 866-344-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So Spotify has said, we're not canceling. We are standing with Joe Rogan. Obviously it's a financial thing for them, but there seems to be some principle involved with it. And Daniel Eck, the CEO of Spotify, has said a lot of these issues are very complex and intertwined. So we're going to talk about that, my proposal to Joe Rogan, your calls, and then some encouraging updates of just pushing back individuals, some Christians, some not, just saying enough is enough.

This is wrong. We've got to stand for what's right. The more that do that, the more society will shift back in the right direction. We'll never have the kingdom of God here fully unearthed until Jesus returns.

But we keep shining the light in the darkness and keep functioning as salt to spread the light as far as we can. 866-348-7884, 866-344-TRUTH. Any question of any kind will get to the phones momentarily. So let me quote Daniel Eck. Here's his statement. Well, it was a 15-minute statement to his staff.

So I'm just giving you little excerpts here. He said, I know some of you feel disappointed or angry or even hurt by some of this content and the fact that it remains on the platform. And they did remove like 100 episodes of Rogan, I guess, with the N-word from the past. He said there are many things that Joe Rogan says that I strongly disagree with and find very offensive. Yet he noted Rogan is the number one podcaster in the world by a wide margin. And quote, it is really critical that creators are able to use their voice independently.

Correct, as Spotify has diverse voices. Yet we're not in the business of dictating the discourse that these creators want to have on their shows. He said if we only wanted to make content that we all like and agree with, we will need to eliminate religion and politics and comedy and health and environment education.

He said the list goes on and on. He said we should have clear lines around content and take action when they're across. But canceling voices is a slippery slope.

Looking at this issue more broadly, it's critical thinking and open debate that powers real and necessary progress. And in the words of comedian Jon Stewart, don't leave, don't abandon, don't censor, don't engage. My counsel is learn to speak the truth in love to others with respect, but without compromise. If you blow it, apologize, make things right, move forward. If others blow it and apologize, forgive them and give them a path of redemption. So here's my proposal to Joe Rogan, who doesn't know me from Adam, 99% sure of that. But if it's the Lord, it'll get to him or he'll think of it.

Why not? He's got this free form, long flowing show, no specific time limit. Why not have on the number one pro-vax advocate who can also articulate his or her views and is respected in his or her field and the number one anti-vax or person raising questions and concerns about vaccination who can also be articulate and is also respected in his or her field and then host a debate, maybe do it over a few shows, not one person on one day, another person on another day, but they get to interact. You say, well, what do debates do? Well, they educate because you hear the best presentation of both sides. And often, I've been doing debates for decades and seeing great fruit from them. Often you can see, wow, this one had a lot of holes in what they were saying. This one didn't have good answers. Not just the demeanor.

I mean, demeanor is going to win people over, but I'm talking about content. So why not? If anybody got any connection to Joe Rogan, you think it's a good idea? Get my suggestion to him. 866-34-TRUTH.

Let's go over to Don in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire. I have a question about the critical race theory and how it sort of ties into what your topic is with Joe Rogan. We know that Whoopi Goldberg was suspended a few weeks ago from her show, The View, because she made some comment that some things were offensive to the Jewish race. What she was basically saying, I think, what she was basically saying was that Jews, I think you agree that Jews are white people. I think I've heard you say this before, that you are a white man. No, Jews are all colors. They're black Jews, white Jews, the other Jews, red Jews, right.

But in the common parlance, Jews are white, I would think. You would agree? Well, no, absolutely not.

It depends where you live in the world. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I will agree with you on that. But anyway, she was suspended.

She apologized and she was suspended. But my real question is critical race theory. I think that you are against critical race theory being taught in school. No, it's all how it's applied. It's all how it's applied.

In other words, different people mean different things by it. So it's all how it's, I am absolutely for a rigorous, honest teaching of American history, the good and the bad with the blemishes, with the ugly things right up to recent decades, 100% for it. I'm 100% against telling one group you are the oppressor race or you have the victims and the victimizes. So it's all how it's taught, sir.

Okay. I don't understand what you're saying, but would you, I don't know, Anna Navarro, she said that the Holocaust must be, should be taught in every in every school. So how, how do you, how do you square that when, when we know that little German kids or kids of German descent might feel bad about, about themselves and what happened to, and what their ancestors may have done during the Holocaust? Fine to feel bad about what your ancestors did.

That's fine. But you shouldn't be made to feel guilty yourself as if you were part of that or as if you, because you are a German or generically and or genetically and inherently evil or an oppressor group. Yeah. By all means, when you find out about the history, I have friends that spend a lot of their time educating German Christians and the German people, but I even wrote a forward for a book in German about this because the next generation just didn't want to talk about it. It's like, no, no, we have to bring this up to light. Grandpa was a Nazi. You have to talk about it.

Yeah. So you think, so you're saying that they should be, they should feel bad about what their ancestors did? Well, if I heard about American, look, I feel bad when I learned things about my history that I didn't know. Here, I'm not a Southern Baptist. I have no formal, you know, Pentecostal charismatic, but it's embarrassing to me to learn that the Southern Baptists began as a denomination because they wanted to keep their slaves.

So they broke away from the Northern Baptists. Those are people that are good people to, that's, that's embarrassing to me to hear. And if I was a Southern Baptist and I learned it, I'd feel bad. I wouldn't feel personally responsible, but I'd feel bad to learn it. So, so then you're saying it's okay then for little white kids to feel bad about what their ancestors did to African Americans and how the chattel slavery and the Jim Crow. Sure. As long as they're not made to feel bad. So, sir, yeah, yeah.

Oh, absolutely. When you hear, look, I teach on antisemitism in church history and when people learn about it, they come up to me weeping. I'm so sorry.

I had no idea. And they hugged me and they're crying. It's like, okay, well you didn't do, they feel terrible because it's so contrary to who they are.

They feel terrible. So there's a way to, would you agree, sir, that there's a way to teach it where the kids understand, okay, you didn't do this and, and maybe you're, you're, you're a great, great, great grandfather was, died fighting against slavery. But if you just say, wow, it's terrible that, that people that I'm part of, you know, white Americans here, look, I, my, my mother comes over from England basically as an orphan, you know, as a virtual orphan, as a little girl, my grandparents and my father's side come over from Russia beginning of the last century or end of the one before that. So we have zero connection to, to, to the African slave trade. We don't, you know, we come from another place after, but as I learned more about it over the years, I've studied more, understood more, the horrors of middle passage. I feel terrible about it because that was, that was other, other people.

And here's my connection. Other people who were Christians who participated in that, right. But I feel no personal guilt.

I feel no white guilt, you know, none of that. I, I've, yeah. So it's, it's how it's taught, but yeah. And then just be redemptive.

Yeah. My story, my ancestors came from my, my, my great-grandfather was a, was born in slavery. He was born in slavery in Virginia and he was sold from his family down to South Carolina. That's why my family is in South Carolina today.

He never saw his mother and father and sisters and things again. So that should be told. And, and there should be some shame about something like that happening because we can't go back. I don't even know who my ancestors are. My relatives are in Virginia.

Can you imagine something like that happening? Because you just told me your ancestors came from Russia. I'm sure you know exactly where they came from in Russia and England. And we, we lost, I don't even know what my original last, I'm a little exception there. We don't know what my original last name was.

It wasn't Brown, but it got shortened. But my, my history is not yours. Let's not compare it. You know that, but these things should be taught in school, shouldn't they? Yeah.

Why, why, why, why, why do I see so many evangelicals against these? Yeah. So, so Don, let me try to help here. Both sides are like ships passing in the night. Okay.

That's why I said, it depends. I get a lot of flack because I say, it depends what you mean by CRT because to some people it's just evil and to others it's no, it's, it's just a good academic approach. So it, let me, let me just say this that then I, then I got to run, but, but thank you for the call. And it gives us a context here about your great grandfather. That's right.

That's, that's pretty recent, but this is the issue. The evangelicals that I know associate work with absolutely want this taught. Hey, how many Americans know that Japanese Americans were interned during World War II? They were, they weren't in concentration camps like, like the Jews. They weren't being slaughtered. But this, you know, I never learned that growing up. Right. And I'm, I'm sure I didn't learn all the facts or, or, or the right story about our treatment of Native Americans.

I just heard how dangerous and bad they were. And we had to kill some of them. You know, that's, that's all I remember learning.

Right. So you learn more and it's like, oh, because I'm an American, right? It's an amazing country, a great country.

I'm thrilled that I'm here. It's like, oh, yikes. I didn't know we did. So it's we in terms of, you know, our founders or our ancestors or others.

And then there's a lot of good stuff. So the evangelicals I know, they don't want their kids being separated based on race in school. They don't want their kids to have white guilt as if there's something inherently wrong with being white or as if they themselves are guilty of some of the past atrocities. But they want the history taught. They want the story of your ancestry taught. They want that taught.

It's the other stuff they don't. And then each side tends to react against the other. That's why I've tried to have conversations about it. But when you learn, it's like, oh, I just want to hear good things about my country's history. No, there's bad stuff. It's a mixture because we're human beings.

Look at the biblical telling of Israel's history. It's mainly negative, very negative. So that's what happens. So let's teach the good, the wonderful, the great.

Let's teach the bad, the ugly, the terrible. And then let's say, okay, here's how we keep moving forward together and then lead the kids with hope. Thank you for the call, sir. Appreciate it.

It's Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Boy, I am so glad Don called because this is a conversation we've needed to have because I'm convinced in so many areas, be it or different beliefs within the body, be it different political views, social views, different things that there are real issues and there are things we divide over. And I get hated and I get loved for the stands that I take.

And the same happens with you. You have the people that are cheering you on and the others that want to silence you because of the convictions you have. So I have many deep, immovable convictions.

By God's grace, here I stand and I'm not going anywhere regardless of cost or consequence. And there are other things where I think we're missing each other. And I don't mean that Don's missing something, but his question indicates to me that what he's hearing is a resistance to accurate, honest teaching of American history. That's not the issue. The issue is how it's done and how people are made to feel because of that. And if something resulted in black guilt, white guilt, Hispanic guilt, Asian guilt, Jewish guilt, Catholic guilt, so that as that person today, you feel guilty, you're made to feel guilty that this is inherently part of who you are and part of who your people or the race that you belong to, part of that, or that somehow, because this can be traced back to, look, if I found out that I had some great, great, great grandfather that was a, I don't know, some terrible, I don't even want to say, just like the worst criminal out there, it'd be like, what?

In my lineage? I can't believe it. But I wouldn't feel that, well, I have to make reparations to those people. I'm not even talking about the issue of reparations in America. I'm just saying, that'd be the last thought in my mind. It's like if somebody lives in another place completely unrelated to me, I'm like, yikes, I can't believe it.

That's shameful. It doesn't affect how I feel about me today, about being a white Jewish Jesus following American today. But I think a lot of times we're missing each other.

And I'm in regular contact with a leading black educator and a believer. And we talk about this all the time. And he's in a state where this has really heated up. And it's like, wow, just seems extremes on all sides. But can we agree on XYZ? Can we agree that this is, how should we, I think in many cases we would, but we're talking past each other.

That's why I'm so glad Don called in and pressed the issues. We were able to have that conversation. Okay. I'm just going to go through these rapid fire, but examples of pushback to cultural extremes, pushback to cultural madness, pushback to cultural insanity.

And I'm doing this as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. So I'm just going to run through a bunch of headlines. This was Fox news, January 20th, NCAA changes transgender athlete participation policy amid calls for reevaluation and the biological male known as Leah Thomas, her emergence in the pool, put the NCAA transgender policy in the spotlight. Now they're saying, okay, well, you're going to have to go through longer treatments and reducing testosterone. And well, based on that, he would be disqualified.

Thomas would be disqualified, let alone the fact that he still has male plumbing and has been known to not be careful with it in the lady's locker room. And when they protest, according to their stories, according to their stories, when they protest, they're so told, sorry, nothing can be done about it. Okay. Another one, young in co-ops diversity office, viewpoint, diversity, true history, protecting them. Okay.

This is very interesting. And Virginia is right in the middle of, of the firestorm here. So I'm not going to get into Virginia, your policy regarding CRT, but the diversity office, which was personally one agenda, he said, let's get true history, right? So we agree on that. And let's stand for protecting the unborn. This was also back, let's see, around January 20th, January 20th, daily wire reports, Florida Senate push forward bill banning woke instruction schools and businesses. Now, again, it's the extremes that we're pushing back against.

That's the key, not truth, but pushing back against these extremes. How about this one? Daily wire, January 24th, California mom takes legal action against teachers who allegedly persuaded 11 year old daughter. She was a boy. You've got cases where the schools were influencing the kids. And then a 12 year old kid, 11, 12 year old kid tries to commit suicide. The parents have no idea what's been going on. Now they're saying, what in the world were you?

You're messing with my kid. What are you doing? I'm telling you friends, we keep pushing back. Here is an editorial by Sandra Bucia on Fox news, men returning to women, men returning women to sidelines of sports. Nearly all the organizations in a position to protect women athletes are dropping the ball. People are saying enough is enough and calling on those leading the way in sports to stand up for women's rights. January 24th, red state teammate of transgender swimmer, Leah Thomas now speaking out and she's not happy more and more speaking out.

I just read the number of, of, of swimmers speaking out these female swimmers in the same school with, with, with Thomas 16 of them, 16 of them. Yeah. So Spotify, when they were given the choice between Neil Young and Joe Rogan, they said we picked Joe Rogan.

In other words, we pick freedom of speech. Yeah. More and more articles. I've got a few more about will slash Leah Thomas.

You have people, you know, Megan and Harry from Prince Harry, Megan and Harry, they're calling on Spotify. You know, you've got to modify things and people are saying, Hey, no, here's how you stand up to them. Here's how you push back and say, no, we stand for freedom.

How about this one? This is Breitbart news. And when was this from?

This was February 1st, South Dakota passes governor Kristi Noem's ban on boys competing in girls sports. We told you this was coming. Okay. We told you this was coming. And then Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, we had him on last week to talk about how his YouTube channel was banned talking about quote, reintegrated therapy, actually talking about studies that indicate that people going through trauma counseling have had a reduction or, or loss of their same sex attractions.

So his channel gets banned. Well, this is, this is spreading. The word is spreading. Here's an article on Fox news, other places, YouTube bans counseling channel for hate speech after conversion therapy report. He, he wrote to a few of us the other day and said, my, my website's getting flooded with people that want to find out more and interact. So the pushback continues.

We will never see perfect righteousness until Jesus comes, but we'll continue standing for it until he does. All right. I'm going to try to get to another call or two. Let's go to Carol. Nope. Carol's gone. Let's go to Maureen in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

You're on the line of fire. Yes. Hello. Thank you. I've been listening to you for a number of years and I really enjoy your thoughtful edifying comments. One thing that struck me today listening to the call about his ancestry from Virginia and the issue of slavery, which is a horrible scar on our nation. But the fact is slavery has been around for thousands of years and many races have included other races. So it's not a white, black issue. And I wish that that would be talked about more frequently.

Yeah. So, so here's the thing, Maureen, on the one hand factually, you're 100% correct. In other words, blacks have enslaved other blacks, blacks have enslaved whites, whites have enslaved blacks, whites have enslaved other whites. To this day, slavery is still practiced in different parts of the Muslim world in particular. So there you'd have people in many cases, middle Eastern or dark skinned, and they're enslaving maybe people from other countries that are European women or sex slaves or whatever.

So it's, it's a universal evil. And then you have human trafficking, right? In America though, this is the key thing to remember. In America, it was racial. In other words, Africans were considered to be of an inferior race and not full human beings. That's how it could have been blacks enslaving whites with that view. But in our case, it was whites and slaving blacks. And as a result of that, to this day, there are still effects of it that, that put that, that don't bring fully quality to your average African American as compared to your average white, just for example, the net worth of your average white American family compared to your average African American family, the latter is much lower because there's not as much history.

And then in other words of accumulating wealth and, and growing as families and things like that, and you pass things on to your kids and their kids to the next generation. So, yeah. And then segregation remained until not that long ago.

Right. And, you know, I'm, I'm 66 in the South. It was here, you know, the first nine, 10 years of, of my life. So the people were looked at. When you all were talking about, so I, I'm from the North, I'm a Northerner living with a long time ago.

So I was raised that we're all equal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just say it's, it's your, your, your call is cutting out and, and I don't, I don't want to miss that and just, we're not hearing you.

Let me say this. My second Oregon teacher was a black man married to a white woman. So this would have been in the early to mid sixties and they would come over for dinner at our house. And my dad was outraged because they lost friends.

Family members turned against them because it was interracial marriage, even though they were in the New York area. And I remember saying, how could this be in our day and age? And again, many look from America's founding, this needs to be taught to tell all the horrible things, but there were Americans even going back to the colonial days that opposed slavery. And, and there was a plague that broke. I was reading about it 17, 30, so well before we were a nation. And, and one of the Christian leaders said, this is because of slavery. That's why this plague has broken out.

So they've always been pushing back and, and no teaching white guilt, teaching guilt on any race is ugly and wrong and, and needs to be avoided. But let's tell the truth and then let's be redemptive and let's move forward. Let's tell the good with the bad and let's move forward together because there's great potential. If we will be.

Hey friends be blessed. Remember to go to askdrbrown.org. Sign up for our emails. You want to get them. You don't want to miss special announcements and more. Another program powered by the truth network.