A Conversation with Cameron Jackson

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together. It's reasoned relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Ministries, this is Truth for a New Generation Radio. And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. You know, R.C. Sproul, the famous defender of the faith, he would frequently say, �All truth is God's truth.

If truth exists, then it's based in the nature and the character of God.� Hi, welcome to Truth for a New Generation Radio. Alex McFarland here. You know, I'm so excited because we're visiting with a dear friend, a colleague. You, many months back, you met Cameron Jackson. We did a show about math.

And I'm on the road, I'm back at Rockfish Church in central North Carolina, right on the doorstep of Fort Bragg, the 82nd Airborne, and how we thank God for the men and women defending the freedom of the world emanating here from Fort Bragg. But whenever I come to Fayetteville, I love to meet with Cameron Jackson because, for one thing, Cameron, I'm kind of in awe of you. You're a math professor. And, you know, I didn't get the math gene. In fact, math was pretty hard for me. You know, there's three kind of people in the world, those that can do math and those that can't. And I'm in that latter group. But I want to say welcome back to Truth for a New Generation, and thanks for always being a joy as you and I discuss the things of God and biblical worldview and apologetics.

It's always a privilege. As you and I have talked about, math was my struggle in college. And I was very intimidated by math. But math is, I do believe, one of the proofs that God exists. This is not a random universe. It's not just happenstance.

You and I talked about this before, and I think it bears repeating. Without God, we wouldn't have math. And math is not random.

Math is very exact. As a professor, don't you think math points to the fact that there is a designer? In other words, there is a God.

Absolutely. The logical value of math cannot be dismissed. And if we talk about the truth of God, if there is a truth out there, then it has to stand. Anything that is not the truth, and we, yes, I'm alluding to the law of non-contradiction, math is exactly that. When I say one plus one equals two, anything different than that cannot be. One plus two cannot be the same truth as one plus one equals two. And the law of non-contradiction, and I want to approach it as such, because it teaches us that there is an ultimate truth, and the opposite of the truth will be false. And math is simply that. You know, anything that is different than what the equation is, it is false. Cameron, don't you think we have what Gary Habermas calls a cumulative case apologetic?

A cumulative case. I mean, you look at design, you look at DNA, you look at the Bible, you look at fulfilled prophecy, you look at the empty tomb, you look at the power of the gospel to change lives, you look at all of these things together, you look at math, logic, non-contradiction, all of these things taken cumulatively, aren't these things best understood in terms of God existing and God being knowable? And absolutely, just taking the value of math, and I'm purposefully, by the way, intentionally using some of these phrases that we do use in the world of mathematics, such as value, numbers, and contradictory terms, and things of that nature, because that's how God purposes it. He designed the universe according to the equation that he has.

He presents math, basic math, albeit in the begats. I mentioned that to you that when he says that this person had a child at the age of 65 and he lived to be another 500, 65 plus 500, 565, God purposes it. He intentionally puts that in there, not for us to necessarily, you know, it's the preciseness of it, in other words, logically speaking. Evidence. When you talk about evidence, you know, again, we sometimes get wrapped up in evidence, but we have to understand that evidence in itself is not going to convince people. And I know Prince of Preacher, one of my favorite preacher, Charles Spurgeon said, he said that it is not, we are not responsible of the gospel after it is being preached.

It is God's responsibility to use that gospel in that person. It is our job to present it. So we can present the evidence. Yes, there's many evidence. We have the truth on our side. I can, you know, just by fossils alone, we have the truth.

You know, I can name probabilities upon probabilities of no matter how much time this universe cannot possibly exist from something that doesn't exist. We can keep presenting evidence, but that in itself is not what is going to change our mind, is we have to remove their presupposition, what their worldview was. We have to understand their worldview and then give them sound reasoning. Let me give you, if you would, an illustration in a comical story. So this person went up to a doctor and he says, uh, doctor, I think I'm dead. The doctor says, what are you talking about? Dead person don't talk.

Well, no, no. I've seen some scientific studies that, you know, dead person can have muscle twitch and maybe this is what's happening to me. And he said, no, no, no. Dead person don't talk. You are not dead.

But let me give you a couple of evidence. Do you believe that a dead person bleed? And the guy says, well, no, no. If you can convince me that a dead person bleed, then yeah.

Yeah. So the, so the doctor obviously, for obvious, takes a pen and he pricks him with it. And the man began to bleed. Do you see there? You're bleeding. So you're not dead. And the man says, you're absolutely right, doctor.

Dead person do bleed. The point is, is there's not enough evidence. What we must do is understand that their worldview needs to be, it's the lenses that they wear. They, we have to change their presupposition.

We have to, in turn, you know, answer the questioner, not just necessarily the question. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back with my friend and colleague, Cameron Jackson, on this edition of Truth for a New Generation, The Evidence for God. Stay tuned.

We'll be back after this. World views, The Battles You Must Win, featuring Dr. Alex McFarland, Dr. Frank Turek, Sandy Rios, and E. W. Jackson, talking about raising children to come to Christ and stay with Christ in the midst of the woke movement, critical race theory, and Marxism in America. October 15th through 17th in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Conference and Concert by The Bird Songs.

TNG 2021, October 15th through 17th. Register at alexmcfarland.com. Where in the word are you? With Bill Campbell, inspiring your read through the Bible in 90 days.

Yeah, I'd like to introduce you to someone today. His name is God. Now, I know it sounds crazy, but I found a place where you can discover him for yourself. It's out in the desert, just outside of Egypt. Now, it would be expensive to fly there, but I can get you there for free through the book of Exodus. What you find might surprise you, because you see, we as a culture have redefined God.

I'd like you to go with me there. By the way, where in the word are you? Because in Exodus, we can meet him as though it's for the first time. That's scriptureawakening.com.

Where in the word are you is produced by Scripture Awakening, inspiring you to read, study, and live God's Word. Learn more and donate at scriptureawakening.com. For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland, and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit alexmcfarland.com. Welcome back to Truth For A New Generation.

Alex McFarland here. We're going to resume our conversation with Cameron Jackson, but I do want to remind everybody about Truth For A New Generation, TNG. This is our first post-COVID conference, coming back October 15 through 17. You know, of course, we didn't do a conference or a camp in 2020, and a lot of people have asked, and I'm going to give an announcement here also in 2022. Next summer, July 17 through 22, we resume our biblical worldview camp, apologetics camp.

And oh, I'm so excited. We're going to be in eastern North Carolina at a camp called The Refuge. Now, we can accommodate up to 100 youth, middle school, high school. We're going to be talking about the basics of being a Christian, discipleship, but also how to defend your faith, Christian worldview. We're also going to be talking about America, our nation, based on biblical principles. And what we do, as we do at all of our events and all of our camps, we are imparting to young people a love of God and country. You do not want to miss the Truth For A New Generation summer camp.

Now, at The Refuge, there's horseback riding, there's archery, there's fishing, there's paddleboarding, there's a brand new Olympic sized swimming pool, state-of-the-art accommodations, really good food. And if I do say so, we think some pretty good teaching and some good speakers. So you can go to Truth For A New Generation. That's Truth, F-O-R, Truth For A New Generation regarding our camp. And of course, we do want to see you October 15 through 17 in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina with Dr. Frank Turek, Sandy Rios, and much more at the next Truth For A New Generation conference.

Please pray, please promote, please plan to attend. Well, Brother Cameron Jackson, I want to welcome you back to the program. And I want to ask you a question.

I do think this has apologetics value, but I'm going to throw something out of left field at you. Here's this question. What is math? What is math? Mathematics. It is the study of the logical order in forms of numbers to form a logical conclusion that all things has a value.

Okay, let's unpack this just a little bit. Because one of the things that's fascinated me, and I'm not especially strong in math, English in history, philosophy, those were my areas of study, but I became very intrigued with math. When I realized that throughout history, different cultures independently of each other discovered pure mathematics, and math operates the same for the Arabs, the Asians, the Greeks, the Europeans, east and west, and I began to realize, okay, people independently of each other discovered math. By the Middle Ages, when people were traveling, there was kind of this aha moment in the history of math that people realized math is this thing, it's other.

It wasn't really invented, but discovered. It's objective, not subjective, and I began to be convinced that the existence of math points to the reality of God, and God is a God of order. So that being said, talk to me about the relationship between math and God. And everything that we do, as we recognize the sovereignty of God, we must understand that the mind of God, not only is logically sound, it follows one another. If it's the truth, even God himself, he says, I, you know, I work within the laws that I've given you, I have, my plans is for you to prosper, my plan is for you, you know, I am, I've created this, therefore, you know, I know how this thing called, you know, your walk with me will flourish at the end.

Bottom line is, you know, his plan is forever. And this is one of those scriptures that even my daughter is the one who gave it to me, you know, the plans of the Lord stand firm forever. We say that, but do we really recognize that that is a blueprint, that is a, what I just described as a mathematical, equational value that he is really stating within that scripture, to say that my plans stand firm. I have, you know, since the beginning, from even before the fall of man, he has a plan, his plan is for us to prosper, his plan is to win, he, his plan, even in the Proto-Evangelium Acts, the Genesis 3 15, his plan is that the enemy will be defeated. And so, as, as we talk about math, as we talk about, you know, each of the value even within our lives, we must understand the logical plan of God, the blueprint is there. We simply have to follow his will, and follow his will within each of our lives, because we are a small equation within this big, you know, and I'm going to throw a quadratic formula in there, within this big equation we call the plan of God. We're just a small value within, and if you understand your, the value of that one segment, you know, can alter the whole equation.

We are in that mix, so understand that them, you know, within the context of math. Now I'm, I'm more of a probability guy. What got me really stirring in God's plan, as it relates to, you know, how I think, is that, you know, the probability of things are not occurring the way God has said, it is far greater, and I want to, I'm going to borrow Frank Turek, when he says, you know, I don't have enough faith to believe in all these other stuff, because what we believe is truthful and logical, therefore all these other stuff, you know, there's no value, there's no probability statistical value that I can adopt. Just looking at the order of things, our body is made up of billions and billions of cells, and for us to just simply form out of random chance. It's impossible, it's impossible. You know, even yesterday I was watching Animal Planet, and they were talking about zoos that breed animals in captivity, and there was a certain species of gecko that was about to go extinct, and so it was very important they said that the DNA makes this kind of gecko, so we want to raise some of these in captivity.

The DNA has to be preserved, because it's the blueprint for this type of species. Well, Professor, when I hear words like blueprint and plan and schematic and information and design, that's not random. Absolutely. Hey, we got to take a brief break. Stay tuned. A final thought with our friend Cameron Jackson on this math edition of Truth For a New Generation. Don't go away. Have you ever wanted to raise your hand during a sermon?

Well, here's your chance. Hi, Alex McFarland here from the nationally syndicated radio program Exploring the Word. For more than 10 years, my co-host Bert Harper and I have taught scripture and answered hundreds of Bible questions. We've compiled a brand new book of the top 100 Bible questions from listeners of all ages, from questions about supposed Bible contradictions to apologetics facts that prove the truths of scripture. This new book features practical content that will make the Bible come alive for you.

Can we really be sure that God exists? Are there contradictions in the Bible? I need a book that will help me understand the Bible better. There's so much good content in this book.

100 Bible questions and answers published by Broad Street Publishers and available at your local bookstores and also through resources.afa.net. Are you tired of liberal agendas ruining our country, but you don't know what to do about it? That's why Truth and Liberty Coalition was founded. We want to equip you to take back our country and impact the world. Here's how we do it. We educate through broadcasts, conferences, and our website with resources that inform, equip, and motivate. We unify by collaborating with like-minded organizations like the Family Research Council, the Family Policy Alliance, and My Faith Votes. We mobilize by providing practical tools you can use to impact your local community.

As Christians, we are called to make disciples of nations. Together, we can change the course of our country for good. Join Truth and Liberty to connect with believers and organizations who not only want to see a change in our nation, but a community that is actually doing something about it. Join us online for our broadcast and subscribe for relevant updates on our website, truthandliberty.net. In the midst of a culture obsessed with relativism, Alex McFarland is a voice you can trust to speak the timeless truths of Christianity in a timely way. You're listening to Truth for a New Generation Radio.

Welcome back to Truth for a New Generation. This is just fascinating, and you are one human being. The DNA that is the blueprint for you, I've read in different science books, roughly 100 trillion copies of your DNA, and you're the only you in the world, my wife, and there's seven and a half billion other humans, 50, 60 billion humans that have ever lived.

We haven't even talked about plant life or animal life, also comprised of DNA. Like my dear friend of 30 years, Frank Turek, says, I don't have enough faith to believe this could have come about just by accident, do you? It's just mathematically impossible.

The probability is so great. I don't have enough lifetime to be able to do something like that, much less to believe that those randomness could occur. The same goes with the universe, you know. We're looking at, you know, the Lord says that he knew me even before I was formed in my mother's womb, as he states in Jeremiah. If he intentionally did that, if he intentionally purposes, he has a blueprint. You talked about the blueprint. That is God's plan.

But not only he's infinitely powerful in order to even direct that plan, but do you know what the probability of him just laying out that plan and then matching it with his overall plan that he will, you know, the enemy will be defeated and we are to be part of it. You know, I am simply in that one portion, in one bracket, if we understand PEMDAS, you know the bracket can, has to be solved first. So we have to individually be solved in order to fit in God's own blueprint. You know, Psalm 19 says the heavens and earth declare the glory of God. And Psalm 19 talks about the creation pointing to a creator, but also the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. So creation had to have a creator. The Word of God tells us how we can know that creator. All of that to say this, and I do believe the orderliness of math, the objective nature of math points to our creator.

You and I have talked about this. Final thought, Cameron, what do you say to the person out there who is maybe an educated person, maybe even a professor, who says, well, I just don't have faith. You know, this thing of trusting in Jesus, following God.

I'm a person of science, empiricism. If I can't touch it, see it, quantify it, you know, faith is just a place I don't go. What do you say to the person who needs the Lord, but feels like if they exercise faith, it's like an intellectual compromise somehow? And we all have questions, but I understand that as we ask the questions that we ask, we're not simply wanting the answer, but we're wanting the answer to be within us, to be applied within us. So all you thinkers out there, you know, God has the answer. However, what he wants is to go underneath. He wants a transformation. He wants to answer the question in order to transform you.

So if you have the questions, yes, we can, we can deal with the surface question, but God is seeking you. He doesn't want anything else but your heart. He wants to love you.

He wants to know that it's his comforting spirit. And now, and one professor point this out one time as he was arguing about, you know, proof and evidence of within the context of apologetics, he just challenges all of us to do this. What I'm presenting you is a life-changing experience with the creator of the North. The universe.

What are you offering me? If you're just offering me answers, you know, without the transformation, you show me your proof by how many lives your questions or your answer have solved, where I can show you that every question that I answer within the context of my creator will change lives. So in other words, what we're doing here, you know, the questions that we do answer is a life transforming. We're answering the questioner. We're answering what is inside of your heart that needs to be changed. That's beautiful, because as we've talked about, you know, science might tell us at what temperature that wooden door would combust.

Science could tell us the tensile strength of this cable, how much weight before that cable would snap. Science can't tell us why I should love my neighbor. Science can't tell us, you know, I'll put it this way, I was once at a church picnic when I was a little boy, and it was at a lake up near Greensboro, North Carolina. Lake Higgins is still there, but there was a big commotion down on this pier. A child, true story, a child had fallen in the water, and there was a lady named Rebecca Russell, and she jumped in and saved this drowning child, and I can see this, I was a little boy. She put him up on the pier, and then she climbed out, but what a lot of people didn't remember was she was terrified of water herself, and after it was over, she was on the pier soaking wet, and it began to dawn on her, and she was just like mortified, but she forgot herself and jumped in to save that drowning child, which of course was the right thing to do. Science can't tell us why somebody with a fear of water would jump in. I mean Darwin, survival of the fittest, would say, well, let the child drown.

Obviously, a less fit species to have fallen in the water, but in a moral universe, you do the benevolent thing, you jump in to save the drowning child with no thought for yourself. I guess what I'm saying is value. Science can tell us how much weight a steel beam can hold, but it can't tell us the value of the life being held on that beam, can it?

No, it cannot. It is what drives us to become better than ourselves. You know, there is no mathematical equation for that, but there is a logical conclusion that we can come. When Jesus has transformed us, when God has your heart, he knows he has everything else in your life. Brother, we've got to pull away.

It is always a privilege. I want to thank you for being a friend and a Christian, brother, but I want to thank you for serving the Lord as you do with your intellect, and I know you're a great witness to your students, and you're certainly a blessing to us. Folks, stay tuned.

Obviously, you can go to our website, alexmcfarland.com. My schedule, I'm on the road all over America this year. Truth for, truth F-O-R, truth for a new generation for the upcoming Worldview Apologetics Conference with Frank Turek and more. And hey, in 2022, we're going to do our best to come to your city, and maybe Cameron Jackson will come with us. God bless you.

God bless America. We'll see you next time on Truth for a New Generation. TNG radio is made possible by the friends of Alex McFarland Ministries, P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. That's P.O. Box 10231, Greensboro, North Carolina 27404. Call us at 877-YesGod1. That's 877-YesGod1, or give online at alexmcfarland.com. While you're there, listen to program archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event, or contact Alex with a question or comment, alexmcfarland.com. Thanks for listening today, and join us again next time as we bring you more truth for a new generation on TNG radio.