Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show.

It's me, Matt Slick, and I hope you want to have a good day today by listening. I don't know, some people are kind of upset, but that's okay because I try and upset them, not the purpose of upsetting them, but the truth of God's word comes forth. Hey, I'm working on an article and I've been working on it off and on for about two or three weeks, more off than on, and I need to get this out. And it's the issue of whether or not a Christian has the right of self-defense.

And I was just talking to Charlie before the show and I started writing this article and it's changed form a little bit. And it's motivated out of a discussion I had with one of our missionaries in Africa. And in a certain country, there are Muslims coming in and killing Christians. And what level of self-defense do they have the right to obtain?

And that's what I'm researching and that's what I'm writing on. And as I'm doing it, I'm going through the Old Testament, obviously the Old Testament has stuff on war and battles and weapons. Well, what about the New Testament? Well, Jesus had buy a sword in Luke 22, 36, and then there's the issue of fight or flight. We have the right of fleeing persecution, Jesus even said to. We have the right of self-defense. But then there's the issue of violence. Not all violence is persecution. Then what do you do if it's not a religious persecution versus when someone just comes in your house to rob you, it's injuring your family, what do you do? Well, I say you have the right to defend yourself and your family. What about this issue of their persecuting for the faith while you're out preaching and teaching on a street corner? What about that?

And then Jesus defended God's temple and he overturned the temple tables and he made a whip of cords and drove people out. And then what about verbal self-defense? And then what about defending the helpless? And then what about aggression in the form of an impending tack? And what if there's a group of people coming to your house and they're yelling at you outside the house?

Well, you can't do anything. They're yelling, it's not physical. What if they're, you know, got a bomb in their hand, a grenade in their hand and throw it in your house?

Then what do you do before they throw it? These are questions I'm having to deal with in different issues and trying to write it in one article. And I'm thinking that it might stay one article, but it's going to be a little bit problematic. I'm already at 1700 words and I'm going to answer objections. You know, Jesus told Peter to put the sword away. Those who live by the sword will die by the sword, etc. So as you can see, there are some real issues I've got to deal with and work through. So, you know, pray for me on this because it has the potential of influencing a lot of people. And the ramifications of this are very serious. I want to make sure that I'm, as much as possible, actively representing God's word and what he has revealed to us.

I want that. Anyway, this is just something I'm thinking about and going through and going to deal with. So, you know, it's not always easy being an apologist. In fact, two last night. So last night, go, yeah, get this. I was on discord.

Discord is a kind of a chat system and I was invited into a room and like five or six can speak at a time and then everyone else has to be in another area listening. And there were over 240 people listening and I'm answering questions from atheists and I just praise God for the opportunity to be able to give a defense for the faith and was able to do that for two hours last night to a couple of hundred people. Praise God.

And most of them are unbelievers. And I got a kick out of this. One guy put a meme, Matt Slick talking to the, to all the atheists. He put a meme of some guy, martial arts people's bodies flying everywhere. It was funny. And he really got a kick out of that. So, uh, there you go.

Hey, I'm just, um, I'm blabbing. So if you want to give me a call to open lines eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six Jacob from Wisconsin. Jacob, welcome here on the air. Isaiah two verses two to four. The last phrase very positively.

So I was wondering how this fits with my, uh, my pessimistic. Um, now it came about, uh, that in the last day, this is the word of Isaiah, uh, concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Now it'll come about that in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord, uh, will be established as a chief of the mountains and will be raised up, raised about the Hills and call the nations and all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of God of Jacob. And he may, he may teach us concerning his ways and that he may walk in his paths for the law will go forth from Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Uh, they will judge between the nations, et cetera. Yeah. I think it's one of the verses that supports a post millennialism. What do you think?

That's what I think. I was just wondering how well it does say, uh, it does say, uh, it's regarding Judah and Jerusalem. Now the question here that is interesting is how much of this is really just for them and how much of it is from forever. And it can't be forever because you know, new heavens, new earth, but it says, um, that it will establish chief of the mountains and all the nations will stream to it.

And many peoples will come and say, come, let us go to the mountain of the Lord and the house of the Lord, God of Jacob. So my question is, is it speaking metaphorically of Judah and, uh, Israel at that time and or Judah and Jerusalem? Oh, that's interesting.

You'd think it'd be true, true to Israel, but it's Judah and Jerusalem. Well, that's interesting. So, um, I, you know what? Uh, yeah. Anyway, like I said, I think it's a, it's a support verse for a post millennialism.

I don't think it's, um, very solid. I think I've got some arguments for all mill that are pretty stinking solid, but, uh, I think it's one of the verses they could use. Yeah. Because at the very end it says, and never again will they learn more. So that hasn't been fulfilled yet.

That's right. That's not, but it could be that, uh, you know, there could be that I haven't looked into it very deeply, but it could be that, uh, at the time and now a millennial perspective. Um, and I think even the pre-millennial perspective, I think that would be a problem as well. So, um, in the all male perspective, uh, they'll beat their swords in the plow shares and, uh, spirit and the pruning hooks. I wonder if that's literal because sometimes it's not, but for the most part when something is prophetic like that, mostly it's literal, mostly not always could get you. Daniel has some pretty symbolic prophecies. So that's something I have to look at and see, consider, uh, how literal is it to be taken? Um, and, uh, can it, and how's it, maybe I could find some Amelanalists and see what they've said about that verse. But like I said, I think it's a good support verse for, for post-millennialism, which I wish was true instead of my pessimistic Amelanalism cause I teach, you know, depressed ketology.

Well, something else related to that is when the enemy made his footstool. That's a good question. Uh, in the Amelanal sense, it would be, um, at the return of Christ. I think the pre-millennial sense, it would be probably at the end of the millennium and in the post-millennial sense, it would be towards the end of all the, before the consummation of the ages. So Amelanalism and, and post-millennialism are very similar. The only real difference is that I see is that Amelanalism is pessimistic and post-millennialism is, is, um, optimistic. That's the main difference that I see. Because Psalm 1 says, seems to suggest that he, his enemies will be made his footstool while he's sitting at the right hand before the second coming.

Yeah. And, uh, then would we know that Jesus is Lord and King now and he's reigning now. And we also know that according to Matthew 13, that when the end of the age comes is when the rapture will occur and the first one's taken are the wicked. And then Jesus says that they're taken out of his kingdom. So it would make sense that he's reigning now in the amillennial sense. If the post-millennials want to say that he's not reigning until later, then that would be a problem for them.

Okay. It doesn't seem like that they're under his footstool if it's like very evil. Well, you don't know what that means, you know, because a king can, can have people under his footstool, so to speak, and they can still be evil in varying areas and varying ways. So, I'm sorry, go ahead. Is that the idea seen as intersubjecting?

Yeah, there's different, you got to be careful of saying that what it means is that nothing bad can happen. Would you agree with me, for example, that, uh, when Jesus said Matthew 12, 22 to 32, he says that, uh, in order to cast out demons, a strong man, and he refers to Satan, must first be bound. Are you familiar with that? Yes. Okay.

So would you agree then that Satan was bound when Jesus was doing this? Yeah. Okay. And are you also, would you also agree that Jesus says that the wicked are taken out of his kingdom at the end of the age? Yes. Okay.

So then that would fit all mill and I think post mill, but I'm not too familiar with post mill. So I think it would fit that, but I think it fits better the Amalino perspective because just the wicked are taken first with place of judgment and then the Christians are taken up in a rapture and then, um, the new heavens and new earth are made. So when is it that people are under subjection of Christ? Would you say that people are under subjection of Christ if he's the king right now?

Because the wicked are taken out of his kingdom, which is now since the Satan was bound and Jesus has ascended into heaven at the right hand of God on the throne. So would you say he's the Lord king? Would you say that we're in his kingdom? Well, Jesus is the king right now, but it just doesn't seem to fit with the picture of the enemy being under the footstool when it's like some of the worst ever. It can also be that, see, this is why eschatology is difficult because he's obviously the king now. We're in his kingdom now.

That I have no problem with. But when is it that they were made under his footstool and it's a complete subjection? Is it during the whole millennial reign, which is a figurative period of time, or is it something that will only happen on the day of judgment when they are put under his feet?

These are the questions we have to ask. So are you post-millennial? Well, that's what I'm leaning towards. Well, that's fine as long as you're believing the good stuff in the other areas, the Trinity and the deity Christ and things like that. So I know more and more people are becoming post-mill and that's fine.

More and more people are becoming amil and that's fine. We'll find out what the truth is. I do like the idea that the gospel will change everybody's nature, not nature, but it will change the world and that the gospel will eventually dominate.

I love that idea. But at the same time, because Jesus said when he was answered, when he answered the question, Matthew 24, they said, tell us, what will these things be? What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age? So the arrival of Christ is the end of the age, which in post-millennialism includes the age that we're in now.

And in summation, Jesus said many things. When we come back to the break, I'll read you what some of the things he said, which is a problem for the post-millennial physician. We'll be right back after these messages, folks, please stay tuned. Here's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back, everybody. Jacob, are you still there?

Yes, I'm here. All right. Yeah, I'm just going to comment that some of the things that are prophesied towards the end of the age are false Christs, false prophets, war, persecution of the faithful, apostasy, which I'm going to talk about here briefly, lawlessness, love growing cold, earthquakes, famine, plagues, increase in selfishness, excuse me, lovers of self, money and pleasure, mocking of Christ, et cetera. And in 2 Thessalonians 2, this is something I think is problematic for the post-mill view. It says, now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him. Now that's the rapture and the return of Christ, which in post-millennialism occurs after the world basically is converted to Christianity. That you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter from us to the fact that the day of the Lord has come, knowing in any way to deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness has revealed the thought of destruction. So if the world's converted to Christianity, why does it say there's an apostasy that has to come first? And that's a question that, you know, I think that site would have to deal with.

So there's strengths and weaknesses in every position, and there are difficult issues with every position. But, you know, as long as you believe what you believe biblically and because you see the scriptures teaching it, you know. Okay? Okay, thank you. All right, man.

God bless. All right, let's get to Jewel from California. Jewel, welcome. You are on the air. Hi, can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Hi. So I guess I called at the right time. Your previous caller is talking about eschatology and I actually have a question. So one of the passages recently that I've been just kind of fluttering over is Daniel chapter 11, around verses 32 through, I believe, 34. Okay.

And I'll pull it up. Essentially, I started out in the dispensational pre-millennial perspective. But just from reading this passage, as well as from others, I'm moving more towards the historic pre-millennialism. And I've been trying to find resources to kind of execute this particular passage, but have not really been able to.

I know that you're all millennial, but I'm just trying to get any insight into, you know, this particular passage and just trying to understand in the grander scale, or in the grander scheme of things, how this particular scripture works, if that means. Okay. What I would do then, since you said you wanted resources to kind of check it out and get into it, have you ever heard of blueletterbible.org? Yeah, I believe, I have heard of that. Yeah, I check that out because you can go to Daniel, for example, and you can go to various verses and there's, I believe there are, yes, there are commentaries, cross references and dictionaries associated with different areas of that. And you said you wanted tools.

That's what I would do. On my computer, I have logos and I have, you know, 10, 20, 30 commentaries. So if I were to go through this area of scripture, which is, let's just say hotly debated, because it is, and you know, the kingdom of Alexander the Great and the four kingdoms afterwards, King of the South, the princes, all this stuff, then I'm not sure exactly what it means, to be honest.

But what does exactly mean? I got some ideas. So since you said you wanted to study the ideas and stuff like that, that's what I would do unless you have logos.

But blueletterbible.org, it's got a lot of really good stuff there and a lot of good commentaries. Sure. I've actually looked at some different commentaries, but I feel like most of the times that I've read different commentaries on it, it all kind of does more of a dispensational perspective and I'm just trying to broaden my perspective overall. So maybe that will be a good insight. And then just kind of thinking into this, I don't know, maybe you can kind of explain as far from your perspective, being pessimistic on Millennial. I'll start to kind of think through, you know, if we, you know, Christians do go through, you know, a tribulation, what is it going to look like to endure well, if that makes sense?

I know, you know, What's it going to look like what? Indoor well? Yeah, endure well. So I know, you know, I don't understand the word. I don't understand that. Indoor well. I don't understand that.

Indoor, like indoor tribulation. Oh, to endure persecution. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. I know that, you know, going into chapter 12, like if you continue to read through this, you're going to go into chapter 12.

And even in this particular passage, like, I don't know if you'd be able to, but just verses 32 through 34, like it's essentially talking about, you know, from what I can tell believers recognizing, you know, let's see, where is it? Yeah, it looks like the Antichrist. Okay. It could be the Antichrist. Exactly.

Uh-huh. And it says, but the people that know their God will display strength and take action. Like even kind of think through what does that mean? And then it says those who have insight amongst the people will give understanding to the many, yet will fall by the sword in the flame, by captivity and plunder for many days.

Now, when they fall, they will be granted a little help, and many will join to them in hypocrisy. Some of those who have insight will fall in order to refine, purge, and make them pure until the end time. That makes sense.

Because it is still to come at the appointed time. That makes sense, yeah. So you go into chapter 12 and it says, you know, the resurrected bodies, all those different things, but I don't know, I just, I'm trying to get more perspective. Yeah, what you said there fits into my perspective very well because of the persecution coming and you know, Jesus says false Christs and false prophets will arise and deceive many, if possible, even the elect, which means they can't be, which is reminiscent of what you were just reading. So this is eschatological, obviously, and it's difficult to map out. But let me give you a hint of something that may or may not be fruitful. It's called chiastic structure, and sometimes it's worth delving into and sometimes it's not. So let me introduce you to the idea, and I'll go to a scripture here, Matthew 7, 7, and this is what it says.

I'm going to introduce you to chiasm because you can apply this to Daniel and see if there's a chiastic structure, but let me explain what it is. Jesus says in Matthew 7, 7, ask and it'll be given, seek and you'll find, knock and it'll be open. So on a piece of paper, you would actually write the word ask and then down a little bit below to the right, the word seek and a little bit below that to the right, the word knock.

It's called a step. Ask, seek, knock. And it says for he who, later it says for he who seeks, for he who knocks, for he who, uh, uh, seeks and knocks and it'll be open. Whoever asks, seek and knock.

Okay, sorry. I looked at the text and you see ASK, ask, seek, knock, and then it repeats, ask, seek, knock. So it's a step chiasm. They relate. But if you were to go to CARM, for example, now I just realized this, go to my website, CARM.org and go to parables of prodigal son.

Uh, that's a, that's the way to go. Far better than I can explain by showing you. If you were to go there and look on that, you can see a chiastic structure. And the way this works is, uh, in the parable of the prodigal son, the first and the last verses are interesting. A son is lost in the first verse, but a son is found in the last. In the second area, the second grouping, it's God's wasted in the extravagant living.

But the second to the last is God's goods used in joyful celebration. And you can see, and then the center area often is the main point in the chiastic structure. Check that out and you'll see if you're not so sure, call me back, okay? And apply to Daniel. See if you can find it.

Sometimes things like that help. All right, gotta go. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. All right, welcome back to the show. We have two open lines.

877-207-2276. All right, Frank from Arizona, welcome. You're on the air.

Yes, I hope everything's well with you, Matt? By God's grace, yeah. Mm-hmm.

So what have you got, man? I've got a question on a couple churches I'm looking into, and they're right on fundamentally. The only thing is, I've come across with these same two churches is they want a written covenant, fine covenant by you.

Have you ever heard of that? Yeah, so that's a church membership covenant. It's not in the Bible that that is a requirement, not in the New Testament, so it's not a biblical requirement that they're wanting.

They can't find that in Scripture. However, it's not necessarily unbiblical either because covenants are biblically valid in the Old Testament a lot, and there's a New Testament covenant as well, and covenants always have signs, so the covenant would be a document that you sign. And so the church has a right to require, for membership, require a covenant signing of a document, which usually amounts to something like you promise to not do bad things and to stick with the church and be open to church discipline. And it's all good stuff, and it's a good thing for legal reasons, so let's say you go off the rails and they discipline you and you can't sue them, and you sign this covenant.

It's a protection thing. More and more churches will be doing this, unfortunately, that's what it is. And even though I'm personally against church membership, personally, it's just a personal thing. I'm not saying it's biblical, just me. I'm not for it.

I don't like it. But if I were a pastor again, the way things are going, I could see doing it for the necessity of legal protection. So, makes sense.

Okay. Well, the way I was thinking on it is if I sign it, you know, then I'm a member. It's the only way I can become a member, I guess, to the truth.

And for things that happen in life like death and that, you want to be part of that church so that, you know, they'll be coming on to what your problems are and things like that. Right. Well, it's not unbiblical. But I have never heard of a covenant.

Yeah, actually, I kind of like it in that sense that they are aware of that and want to call it that that's good. In fact, we have a covenant. I'll be imposing this. Not imposing, but requiring a covenant agreement with all the people who work with Carm.

I've been working it off and on a little bit. And it's nothing major. You promise to go to church. You know, you're not living in sin. No one's living in sin in your household. You're just permitting that.

You're not doing drugs, pornography. You know, you're in good standing of a church and things like that. And that, you know, you disagree. And there's a little bit of accountability.

And it's not even legally binding. You know, it's just something like that. So those are some of the things that we're thinking about doing because we want to make sure that people are seriously minded when they come to Carm and want to work with Carm. I see. Yeah, that makes sense. So my requirement is realizing my urging of covenant agreement to work with Carm and my not liking church membership are kind of at odds with each other at this point now.

So how can I hold one and not hold the other? But in consistency of my part. But I don't like church membership requirements, but I could see doing it. So it still puts Christ as the final authority of that church.

Absolutely. Yeah, you know, just discuss it with the elders and with your loved ones and some friends and family. So let me just tell you, you know, signing a covenant like that is not unbiblical. If you were in the church and somebody goes up and dedicates their child and says to the congregation, would you promise to help us if needed? Uh, you know, being forthright, you know, guard our children, you know, this kind of a thing, you know, the congregation would say, of course, you know, if you ever need, that's a covenant. Now, generally it's a promise, but a covenant usually has a warning, stipulate, uh, punishments and rewards. And the biblical covenant pattern and has the dedication of parties and what you're supposed to do, what you're not supposed to be doing, consequences of this and that. So there are different forms of covenant. And usually a covenant has a sign. And so when people do baby dedications, they're making a covenant, but there's no covenant sign.

I think it's inconsistent. But, um, but Hey, you know what? There's a lot of leeway in the Christian church. So you just decide if you want to do that or not. It's okay.

It's not against scripture to do it. Okay. Okay. Uh, do you have time for another question?

Well, we got people waiting 28 minutes. Uh, what, you want to just call right back and then get back in line. Okay. Yeah, I could do that. Okay. All right. We got people waiting.

All right. Let's get to Herb from Raleigh who we lost. Let's get to Anthony from Des Moines, Iowa. Hey, Anthony, welcome.

Sorry for taking so long to get to you. What do you got buddy? Professor, how are you professor? Well, I'm not, but Hey, I'm, I'm hanging in there.

What do you got? But Hey, I say that with my, I say that with much love and respect, brother. Okay. I gotcha. Or a great one.

You know, I tried to get my wife to call me a great one, but it's never happened. I don't get that either. So don't, don't feel bad. I have been known to, to answer to stupid moron and doofus, especially in this house. Well, it's a family show.

It's a family show. I'm not going to tell you what my ex wife used to call me, but that's right. Okay. I think I know what you're talking about. All right. So what do you got? Just a comment, brother.

You were talking earlier about, uh, Christians rights and self defense. I've been in martial arts for a little over 40 years now. And, uh, what style? Uh, I'm, uh, my, well, I've studied several, but I I'm ranking, uh, it's a Japanese art. It's called Kogaru Goshenjutsu. It's a Japanese art. Basically, uh, Goshenjutsu roughly translates, uh, in our language as art or self defense or method of protecting your body.

However you want to, you know, the Japanese and English or, yeah. I took four and a half years of Krav Maga. So, uh, and two years of Kung Fu and another year of Judo.

And I have a black belt in Run Fu. Oh, okay. Okay, brother, I got you. So my comment was, my comment was, uh, I absolutely without question, and I don't have any scripture to back it up. And I know you're probably gonna, you could probably got a frown on your face right now, but I believe morally that, uh, the good Lord dictates to us that we have the absolute right to protect our lives, to protect the lives of our loved ones.

Uh, I have no question. And I've had people that have come up to me when I've done, uh, uh, self defense demonstrations in the past. And what I demonstrate is quite frankly, pretty brutal.

Uh, I had a couple come up to me one time and they said, we've got a 13 year old daughter and we want her to learn self defense, but some of the things that you're showing here are pretty brutal. And I said, well, sir, I said, the only way that I can answer that is this, that on the street you're going to encounter animals. And I said, if you want to survive, you have to become an animal sometimes.

I'm not talking about your very nature, but I'm talking about your response to a situation. Right. And you only response, right.

And you only respond in a level to stop the threat, not to continue on past. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Uh, somebody comes up to me and no, and if an individual say, uh, I'm out, uh, whatever do them go to the store, whatever and someone comes up and say, uh, grabs me or takes a punch.

No, I'm not justified in breaking, uh, five of his bones and put him in intensive care. Uh, but I think that, I think that the threat has to be met with an appropriate response. That's, that's exactly correct. And you, and you being in martial arts, I'm, I'm sure you probably concur with that.

Oh yeah. And so, uh, just for any folks out there who think that, you know, a lot of people want to get back to where Jesus, you know, when they talked about, and he talks about, you know, turning the other cheek and so on, he wasn't talking about literally, a guy comes up and smacks you in the mouth and you go ahead and turn your face and let him smack you in the mouth. He wasn't saying that. And a lot of people take that out of contact. It was an, it was an ancient cultural thing to, there's an escalation of insult. It wasn't meant to be violent. It was within the normal, cultural norms of what they would do for insult. They would, uh, you know, tugging your beard and they would slap you in the face, but it wasn't like it took a fist and pounded you. It was a, it could be just a small slap. It's, it's an aggression. You had to be close to do that and they wouldn't get into fisticuffs at that point. And it was, you know, it was an insult. And so Jesus said, turn the other cheek then. And that's what he's talking about.

It's not a physical aggression in that sense. I agree. I agree. But we have the right and I'm, I'm with you. If I come home and someone's being physical against my wife and harming her, I'll do whatever's necessary as fast as possible to stop that. Amen.

That's right. Hey, hold on. We got a break. Okay. Hey folks, we have four open lines. Do you want to give me a call?

877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call.

Okay. Hey, we're at the last segment of the show. We have wide open lines, except for Anthony's still on phone to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Give me a call when we can, uh, we can talk.

Anthony, you still there? Yes, sir. Yeah. Good.

Yeah. So I'm not going to take, uh, I'm not going to take too much more of your time, Matt, but, uh, uh, as I say, you know, and a lot of people want to go to the 10 commandments. Thou shall not kill. Well, if they really understood that, that means thou shall not murder.

Right. And there's a big difference between murdering somebody and taking a life that doesn't apply to soldiers or to law enforcement or as far as I'm concerned to a, to a godly person that's rightfully trying to defend themselves or their family, their loved ones and so on. I don't think I need any, uh, uh, scriptural reference for that. I just feel in my heart because I love the Lord. I've been a Christian for, I'm 61. I've been a Christian since I was 18 years old and I started training about that time and I never ever felt that there was a conflict between training in martial arts and self defense and, and also learning to use firearms and other weapons in an inappropriate manner. Um, I just, this is not for you, but it's, this is for the listeners out there. I know there's a lot of believers that feel there's a moral dilemma between exacting violence upon another human being and their commitment to Christ and being a believer.

And there's absolutely no conflict whatsoever. Um, if, if, if, if you are genuinely, uh, in a situation where you are in fear of your life or your loved one or even my pets, I've got two cats. If you come into my place, you try to harm one of my cats, I'll tell you what, you're going to wish that you would not have done that. Um, and I'm not exacting justice because I know that God says vengeance. It's not about vengeance.

It's about the fact that let me get on this guy. We, yeah, we, we have the right to defend ourselves and our family and even the innocent, but we don't have the obligation to defend ourselves. We have the right to do that. And a level of violence, if necessary, has to be considered very, uh, very seriously. And, um, of course.

And that's what, that's what I'm saying. And there's other issues that are related to this. Um, because a scenario, for example, if someone is in your home is kicked down the front door, do you have the right at that point to use violence? Uh, depending on the situation, you know, maybe it's just a drunk person and, and a stumbling, then you wouldn't. Uh, but if it's a person with a bat and you have a, uh, you know, firearm, maybe it's necessary.

You know, there's all these scenarios. And well, what do you do if someone's out front, uh, on the sidewalk yelling at you that they're going to come into your house and they're going to, uh, hurt you, but they don't do anything other than yell. You can't use aggression against them at that point. But what do you do if they have a weapon in their hand, like a bat and they're still staying there?

You can't do anything. But what if they have a grenade, for example, and they're, they're pulling the pin to get rid of throat at your house. Then you, you know, it seems as though you have the right to assault them with a weapon from your house because it's, it's, um, an, an imminent threat to preemptive strike. It's a pre yeah. And so then the concept of preemptive, well then how far can we take that? This is a very difficult topic and a lot of variations, um, get involved here. And I happen to have a good friend who I've known for umpteen years and he's a retired border patrol agent and he's done many special layers of training in different law enforcement stuff.

He's also a, like a, I don't know, fourth, eighth degree black belt and I forgot what it is. And so, uh, he's been been informing me about different scenarios. It got me to think more clearly about the legality, at least here in America.

And a lot of what is legal in this situation applies biblically because it's like, Oh, that's right. That situation, you can do this. And this is a wish and you can't do that. So anyway, I'm writing this article and it's growing and I don't like it. It's I don't want it to grow.

I want it to become quick and slick and easy, but it's not. So anyways, there's something I'm dealing with. Well, unfortunately my brother, uh, we live in a world that's increasingly becoming more violent.

I don't believe that's going to change anytime soon. Of course, always I regard my protection as the Lord. He is my refuge, he's my shield. But at the same time he's also equipping with skills and he's given me the intelligence to employ those skills when necessary. And I, I have no apology for that.

I have no regret for that. Uh, I believe that that's God given ability and that he's endued me with that. And I also share that and I teach others and I believe that I am morally, uh, correct in doing that.

And as a Christian, I don't feel that that violates, uh, my conscious whatsoever as being a believer. Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. All right, man. I appreciate your time as always, my friend. All right, Anthony. Well, God bless, buddy. All right. Sometimes one of these days I can make my way out to your neck of the woods. Maybe we get together, we do a little working out. I'm, I'm 61. I'm not a spring chicken.

Uh, I don't think, I don't think we, I don't think we'll get in any trouble. Well, you know, when you, I've known this about martial arts, when you have an aggressive style, uh, you, the person you have to work out with has to know that aggressive style. Otherwise you can get hurt. Yeah. You're not kidding. That's right. That's absolutely right. Amen, brother.

Amen. My daughter had a white belt, a white belt. My daughter had a white belt, uh, throw her inappropriately. Uh, you know, throwing is fine, but didn't release at the right time and ended up breaking my, my daughter's clavicle. Uh, you know, Oh my gosh. Yeah.

And she had to have surgery to have it fixed. So when they don't know what they're doing, it could be more harmful than if you do in a sense. But anyway. All right, buddy.

A little bit, a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. That's right. That's true. God bless you, my brother. Okay. God bless. Always good to talk to you. Thank you, Matt. All right. Well, folks, we have nobody waiting so I can fill the time talking about this particular issue.

If you want to give me a call, however, 877-207-2276. Um, so, uh, this issue of self-defense, um, it just kind of comes up, you know, talk about the things that kind of come up and, uh, what do we do in our society that is degrading, uh, in the societies around the world where violence is on the rise and, uh, murders are on the rise because the leftists have defunded the police. The violence is on the rise. Um, we have the increase of godliness. This is what the Bible prophesies will occur. What is the Christian's response?

What do we have the right to do? Well, I honestly believe because Jesus said in Luke 22, 36, he says, to the disciples, he said, do you have a sword? They said, no, we have two cloaks. He said, sell a cloak and buy a sword. And they said, look, Lord, we have two swords. And he said, that's, that's enough. So he wasn't advocating that every individual be armed, but there were two swords, which means two people were armed within a group of 12.

And I'm not saying one per six is the right proportion, but he was saying it's enough. I think we can, we can draw out of this is that you don't have to be, uh, you know, armed, but Jesus himself did instruct the disciples to do this. And what was the context? He was sending them out into the world to preach and teach that gospel. And then that's in the context when he said buy a sword. And so another thing that's related to what Jesus did and said is when he went into the temple and he overturned the temple tables and he made whips of cords.

Now whip is an aggressive weapon. And he drove the people and the animals out and overturned the temple tables. Uh, you know, it was an act of violence is what Jesus did. So Jesus himself was violent in that sense. Now, does this mean then that we can go into churches, which relate to temples and overturned the tables, uh, in the podiums of the heretics?

Uh, I don't believe so. I think what Jesus was doing in that context was defending the very truth of God and himself because he's God in flesh and the people who were religious leaders were involved with, uh, theological debauchery and idolatry. They didn't realize it, but they were. And Jesus, I think was setting the example of how serious it is that we take our reverence with God and our worship and adoration of God and that the Jews in that context had become legalistic and cold hearted.

And Jesus stepped in and intervened. And I think that is permissible for us. And I don't think that that justifies us being violent in churches. I think the proper way to handle this is things like I do, you know, uh, Kenneth Copeland's a heretic, Joyce Meyer's a heretic and verbally cite and document why, uh, because you know, these things are true. Well, how far can we, we take these things? How far as Christians do we move forward in them? It's a difficult question to answer.

Here's another question. What if you are a devout Christian and you don't want to be violent and you join the military? You know, there are people who don't want to be violent and yet join the military because they know they can get a job in the military, not being an infantry.

There might be a cook, whatever it is, and we're not going to have to show violence to anybody, but there are Christians who are in the military. Now when Jesus addressed the centurion, he did not tell him to leave his job. He told him to do his job well and properly and honestly, and the centurion's job was military. So as we look through these things, we're seeing that Jesus himself did not denounce violence. Now he did say, turn your other cheek and be peacemakers.

And he did say, you know, seek peace, whatever possible and things like that. That's what we want to do. And we're certainly not to go looking for it, but the issue of the defense of truth and the defense of others and the defense of ourselves seems to be a notion that's permissible within the Christian New Testament. When we get to this, then we have to ask other questions that are related to this. If we can establish the fact that, yeah, we can defend ourselves in the right conditions, not be aggressive and go looking for trouble. We do not do that.

That's vengeance. We don't have that right. So what do we do? However, if I said to this guy was talking before that Anthony, I think his name was, was that what if somebody's outside your house yelling at you, you don't have the right to shoot him. What if he has a gun or a grenade launcher, flamethrower, whatever Molotov cocktail, and he's in the process of prepping it to use against your home, then you have the right, at least legally here in the state, you have the right to be aggressive and be preemptive because it's an imminent deadly weapon assault. It is considered an extension of self-defense.

All right. Well, that makes sense. Well, what do you do if you're in an African country and the Muslims are moving in groups into towns to kill people? What if they're there to kill Christians? What if they're there just to cause mayhem?

That's two different issues. Can the Christians then be preemptive? We could make the case that they could. Could the Christians not be preemptive and just take it? Well, we can make the case for that as well. What about those who aren't Christians or anything, and they're just being persecuted?

Do the Christians have a right to defend them? It would seem so. And then do they have a right to be preemptive? It would seem so. But then to what extent? This gets complicated. And the article that I'm writing on this is likewise getting more complicated because there are so many issues here and having to deal with them. So I'll be releasing the article in a day or two or three or a week or so because some of this is where people look at it. But these are some of the things talking about and we're thinking about.

It just happens to be a topic. All right, folks. There you go. Bless you. By His grace, we're back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.