Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content open on Facebook search of our video please consider going to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and you will see on the left-hand side in the menu, you'll see a donate option, and we ask for $5 a month, something like that, and more or less, doesn't matter, because if we can get that, then we can make budgets and we can work stuff, that's what we're trying to do. Wow, so there you go, all right.

You're getting stuff going there. All right, three open lines, 877-207-2276. Tony from Georgia, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, what do you got, man? So, Matt, I'm a Protestant, and I know that the Calvinist and Armenian debates get heated and sometimes nasty, and my question is this. Do the Mormons and Roman Catholics have a point that scripture alone causes division? Well, it's not true that scripture alone causes division. Division occurs in politics, in medicine, in philosophy, so as far as scripture goes, as far as Christianity goes, yeah, scripture does cause division, and divisions must be made among you, so the truth must occur, so the truth can be made known.

I think it's 1 Corinthians 11, 19, I'm not sure if you didn't find the verse, but that's, you know, divisions are normal, and in fact, the shirt I'm wearing right now, So Much Heresy, So Little Time, carm.org, heresies in Greek, factions, divisions, problems, so these kinds of things are normal, and it's okay, we do need to be divided from the Roman Catholics and the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses because they're not our brothers in Christ, so yeah, divisions are a good thing, and then sometimes also a bad thing. Okay. Okay, all right. Well, thanks, Matt, yeah. Okay, all right, buddy. All right.

God bless. All right, thanks, happy Father's Day to you. When's Father's Day? Sunday. Sunday, oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, all right, I didn't know, that's how busy I am.

Oh, darn. Yeah, one thing I gotta make sure I don't forget is our anniversary and my wife's birthday. You know, but yeah, she's pretty good girl, you know, she's, I'm up on that.

She's born on Friday the 13th, my wife was, which explains why she married me, but yeah, that happens. All right, man, God bless, thanks. All right, thanks. Okay, all right, let's get to Anthony from Des Moines, Iowa. Hey, Anthony, welcome.

You are on the way, Anthony. Hello. Hi. Hi, Matt.

Hey. I've just been listening to you recently. My TV went out, I was watching TCT quite a bit, and since I don't have a TV, I've been listening to Christian radio, and I've been tuning in, and really enjoy your program. I like your straightforward approach, and you're a learned man, I've been learning a lot. Well, praise God, you know, he's one against the glory, so praise God. Yes, sir, absolutely.

Well, a couple questions, just a couple quick ones. I always believed, and I've been saved, I'm 60 years old, I was saved when I was 17, and I have always been taught that the bride of Christ is the church, but recently I heard a well-known pastor on TCT say that the bride of Christ was the new Jerusalem. I had never heard that before. No.

So that's my first question. No, I've not heard of that either. Bride of Christ is the church. Revelation 18, 23, and the light of the lamp will not shine any longer, and the voice of the bridegroom and the bride will not be heard any longer. I'm just looking for bride here, bride of Christ. And bride of Christ, oops, no one here could spell it wrong.

Bride of Christ is, what I have understood, has always been the believers. Well, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's right.

That's what I understand. I was, you know, when you hear a little something different, it kind of throws up a red flag, and like I say, this guy, I'm not gonna name names, but he's a well-known pastor, I'm sure he's a man of God and everything, and I don't know where he gets that. Tell me what his name is. What is his name?

It's okay, you can mention it over the air. Creflo Dollar. Ah, stay away from Creflo Dollar, okay? Yeah.

Stay away from Creflo Dollar. He's a positive confessionist. There's a movement within Christianity where a lot of heresies are being taught, and it's a positive confession that God wants you healthy and wealthy. And your words can cause a reality to alter and things like this. It's mysticism. Name it and claim it.

Name it and claim it, blab it and grab it. And yeah, you want to stay away from that kind of stuff. Okay. Okay. Second question, sir, and I'm not gonna take much of your time because I know a lot of people want to talk to you. No, you've got three open lines, so go ahead. I understand, I appreciate your time today.

I got some material from a fellow three or four years back out of Texas and some different booklets and things. And in one of these, he's saying that nowhere is it taught that Jesus Christ has forgiven our sins past, present, and future. In his view, Jesus has forgiven our sins of the past, but we're responsible to live holy lives. Who's been forgiven? Who said this? You know, now that we've been born again and now that we're a new creation.

Yeah, who said this? But yet then I've heard other pastors like Dr. Charles Stanley and others say that our redemption through Christ takes care of all of our sins, yesterday, today, and in the future. Yeah, that's correct. And that's what I've always believed. The first view is heresy, and it's a false teaching, it's an anti-Christ teaching. A lot of cults will teach this, that you're forgiven of all of your sins, and Roman Catholicism teaches a version of this, that you're forgiven of all of your sins up to baptism when you get baptized. But then, afterwards, if you commit sin, you gotta go back to the priest, and you have to do works in order to get your sins forgiven.

And so it's a false teaching. And if you go to Colossians 2, 13, it says, he made you alive together with him having forgiven us all our transgressions. And then verse 14 says, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us, he's taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

The certificate of debt is the sin debt. So Jesus took our sin debt away at the cross. Not when you believe, not when you get baptized. When you believe, you're justified, which means the righteousness of God in Christ is granted to you by faith. That's Philippians 3, 9, Romans 5, 1. So when he canceled out the certificate of debt, the sin debt, that happened 2,000 years ago.

So he doesn't cancel out your sin debt in the future up to the point when you get baptized when you first believe, and then it's up to you to maintain your position with God. That is demonic, anti-Christ teaching. It's false teaching.

And the Christian church, unfortunately, largely does not know how to exegete itself out of a wet paper bag, okay? Doesn't know what's going on. A lot of people. Okay, okay. One final quick question, sir. Sure. Well, are you familiar with the writings of Watchman Nee?

Yeah, stay away from Watchman Nee. Mm-hmm. Um, I've read some of his books, and I've got one that I've read several times called The Normal Christian Life, and of course, he emphasizes in there again and again that at the cross, we died with Christ. We were buried with him, and we were raised with him again into new life. That's what I believe as a Christian. And I get so inspired. I can read his writings over and over and over again, and it's not a substitute for the Bible by no means, but it's an adjunct, rather, you know, just to kind of help me understand God's word a little bit better and see his perspective.

And I really get blessed on it, and I just wondered what you thought about his writing. Yeah, stay away from him. Okay.

Stay away from him? Yep. And I've had dealings with them in Southern California when I lived back there. And let's just say that Watchman, the Watchman Fellowship Movement, no, not Watchman Fellowship, Watchman Nee and his group, Watchman Lee, they get overly mystical in a lot of things, don't have a good hermeneutical principle. It doesn't mean that they can't come across some good stuff and say some good things, because we are crucified with Christ, Romans 6, 6. We died with Christ, Romans 6, 8. We're buried with him in baptism also, and it's called federal headship and identification. So I could recommend some other books if you want to read and you want to get fed, and I would recommend that you would read some of the Presbyterian Divines.

If you really want to get fed, the Presbyterian Divines, and a lot of people don't know who or what that is, but I would read stuff by John Owen, for example. These guys have been dead 200 years. John Owen? John Owen. Owen? O-W-E-N. How do you spell that? O-W-E-N. Okay, John Owen.

John Owen is good, all right? Okay, all right. Jeff Bridges is a modern teacher, he's good. Jeff Bridges, Jeff Bridges, Jeff, what am I saying? Like the actor. No, not the actor. But not the same guy. Oh, oh, come on. Oh, I can't believe I can't remember that. I'm getting older, you know.

So am I, brother. Yeah. C.S. Lewis is okay, but he's got some issues, so I don't recommend C.S. Lewis, sorry. And. Okay.

But John Owen, he's been dead a couple hundred years. His stuff is fantastic, okay? I appreciate it. All right, there's a break. God bless you, brother.

I appreciate all your information. All right, God bless. All right, hey folks, we have four open lines. It's 877-207-2276. Hey, give me a call, I'll be right back.

Everybody, welcome back to the show, we have four open lines, so if you wanna give me a call, now's the time, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air.

Alberto. I clicked the. Hello? There you go. I hear you. All right.

Are you there? Yes, sir. My question is, how you doing, Matt Slick? I'm doing fine.

So what do you got? Yeah, my question is this. You're the man who was casting out demons and disciples wanting to stop them, and Jesus said, what is that to you? Well, so how come that man had the authority to cast out these demons when Jesus told his disciples first wait for the Holy Spirit to come from on high?

No, no, no, no, no, no. They can have that authority to cast out demons and get it sick and all that. Okay, so when he said wait for the Holy Spirit to come on high, that was for a different purpose. In Mark 9, in Mark 6, actually, he'd already given them authority to cast out demons. And so people were doing this who were not of the 12. And the 12 said to this guy, whoever he was, to stop doing that because he was successfully casting out demons. And Jesus told them, well, don't stop him because he's a disciple.

But he wasn't one of the 12. That's all. So the name of Jesus has a lot of weight, a lot of weight. In fact, in Acts 19, starting in verse 13, there were some Jewish exorcists.

Let's see if I can get that in there right there like that and do that. Yeah, so there were some Jewish exorcists who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits, the name of Jesus, a jury by the Jesus whom Paul preaches. And the evil spirit said, I recognize you, or I recognize Jesus and Paul, but who are you? And then the evil spirit leapt on them and beat them up.

So they weren't true believers, but the other one was in Mark 9. Okay? Okay. All right. Thank you, sir.

You're welcome, buddy. All right, God bless. All right.

All right. Hey, folks, four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Tony from Georgia. Tony, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man, thanks for taking my call again.

Sure. So I've been talking to this Mormon on Instagram, and he had me read from one of the Book of Mormon that Jesus appeared in North America. And so now I was thinking that's not theologically possible because Jesus ascended to heaven, and it's like one way to take it until he comes back, until he comes back judgment day. Is that correct?

Am I correct? Well, I mean, I believe that Jesus can appear. He can manifest himself to people. I don't think there's any limitation to, you know, he's in heaven, but his return, his bodily return, permanent return is different. But I don't have any problem with Jesus manifesting in different ways. And I believe that that happened to me when I was converted.

There was a very strong presence of Jesus himself, but not that I make doctrine by experience. What the Mormons are trying to allude to is something called quetzalcoatl, and I think it was with the Incas. And that was this blond-haired individual.

Well, that is so... It just shows you the prejudices of people. You know, that Jesus is the blond-haired, blue-eyed, Caucasian surfer dude. And, you know, and I always say, no, that's not who he was. The Mormons put their faith in the Book of Mormon, which has been altered severely, which was probably copied from Solomon Spalding's manuscript, a Presbyterian minister who passed away, who was trying to write a book in order to make some money, and he passed away. And the manuscript was in the same area as Joseph Smith. And there's anecdotal evidence that the witnesses, or people who read parts of the Book of Mormon, recognize some of the stories as coming from Solomon Spalding's writings, called the Solomon Spalding theory. And so there's some evidence that that is the case of Joseph Smith, because he was not a true prophet, because he said that he saw God the Father, and Paul the Apostle tells us that God the Father cannot be seen.

In 1 Timothy 6 16, he tells us not to approach the light whom no man has seen, nor can see. So the Book of Mormon is not true, and there's no archaeological evidence to back it up. It has all kinds of problems in it, and it's just made up by Joseph Smith. As a con man, and it was very obvious he was a con man, as his family was, they did stuff called money digging. Money digging was a process of trying to find buried treasure, Captain Kidd's buried treasure, which was said to have been around in that area at the time. There was also a rumor of golden plates that had been buried in the area. These were common legends of the area at the time. And so what the Joseph Smith family would do was money digging.

And one of the things to do that is they would get a bunch of people together and say, you know, five cents each, you're in the pool, and then they were gotten by a goat or lamb or whatever it is. They'd slit, they'd take it up to a certain place out of the forest, slit the animal's throat, and then where it would wander, wherever it would drop down and die, that's where the buried treasure was. So they would start digging for the buried treasure. And of course, Joseph Smith and his family got the dead animal, and they used it for food. And that's how they kind of kept themselves fed. But at any rate, the idea was that you were not supposed to have anybody in the group who doubted that this was working, because if they're digging down for the treasure, if you doubted, then the spirit that guarded the treasure would move the treasure. And so always was someone who doubted it.

And so that's why they never found anything. And then Joseph Smith said, according to an eyewitness who swore under oath that Joseph Smith told him that after a rainstorm, and you can get this in the book, A Marmism Unveiled by E.W. Howe, written in 1834, full of affidavits and eyewitness testimonies of Joseph Smith and his family, and said that Joseph Smith said that he was coming home from someplace one day, one morning, I think it was, and there had been a storm the night before, and some water had filtered down through some tree roots and filtered and purified a little bit of sand. So he took it and put it in his shirt, because maybe he could use it in his money digging and practices, trying to get money. And so when he got home, his sister asked him what it was, and he just blurted it out, the golden plates. And he was shocked that she believed him. But really, the golden plates? And so he had to come up with something.

She started spreading the word of golden plates, and this is how it all got started. So the Book of Mormon is not true. The Book of Mormon has been altered at least 4,000 times. It's 4,000 places, I should say, at least. And some of them are very, very significant. There's no archaeological evidence to back it up.

It has inaccuracies in it, some serious problems. And so the Mormon who's telling you this, sorry, but he's just an unbeliever who's been brainwashed by the false teaching of Mormonism, and that's it. So no, Jesus did not come and visit the Indians. There's no record of that, no biblical record of that and stuff like that, did not come here to America and that sort, okay? Yeah, but my argument was he can't physically manifest to the Indians because he's already in heaven. He can't go back and forth up to heaven, right? Well, I know nothing of scripture that says he can't do that because he is going to come back physically, as Acts 1, 9 through 11 says, so he will be able to do that.

So I wouldn't have said that, but you have to say to the Mormon, where's your evidence outside the Book of Mormon because you can't trust the Book of Mormon. We've got a break, so hold on, buddy, okay? Okay, folks, we'll be right back after these messages, four open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Tony from Georgia.

You still there? Yeah. All right, buddy. So, okay, so logically, nothing in scripture says that Jesus cannot physically appear here on the earth, okay? Just because he's in heaven does not mean that his locality means he has to stay there. We know that's not the case because he will physically return to earth, okay? Well, I mean, actually, my argument was he can't physically appear until his second coming. Oh, okay.

Well, okay, if that's your argument, it's not something I would say. And the reason is because I don't know anything in scripture that says he can't appear until his second coming. I believe that it's certainly possible for the Lord to appear to people and to manifest himself to people to save them.

I think it's possible. I don't see any scripture that negates that possibility. That doesn't mean it has happened. So I'm just talking about logic here.

It doesn't mean it has happened, but I don't see anything in scripture that says it can't. And so that's why I wouldn't say it that way. That's all. Oh, okay. But good for you, man.

Good for you. And what you really want to work on with Mormonism is 1 Corinthians 6.16. I'm actually thinking about getting a shirt, because there's Mormons here in Idaho, and it says that, you know, let's see how I could word it the right way. If you believe 1 Timothy 6.16, you can't believe Joseph Smith.

I think it would be a good t-shirt, because Joseph Smith said he saw God the Father, but the Bible clearly tells us that's not possible. Can't see him. And I've been in this argument for many, many, many years, and there are counters and rebuttals and stuff like that. So anyway. Okay? Okay.

Thanks, Matt. All right. Well, God bless, buddy. Okay. God bless. God bless. Four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Dionne from Salt Lake City.

Dionne, welcome. You're on the air. All right, Matt. I've talked to you before about this, and I have a second question now. My question is, there was a woman—I belong to a Baptist church—a woman who was calling her pastor, herself pastor, because her ministry was for women, and you said there cannot be no women pastors. So today, in church, there's a new lady, her ministry is for children, and they're calling her pastor. Yeah, they should not.

That's a mistake. Is this pastor, women pastors, just limited to women, or about the men, that they have their ministry of leading the men? Is it okay for him to be called a pastor? Okay, here's the thing.

Do you understand my question? Yes, and I'll explain why women should not be called pastors in that sense. For one, it's unbiblical, and two, it'll bring problems and divisions and violation of scripture. First of all, I'll do a little bit of a Bible lesson here. So Adam and Eve were created, and she sinned first, Adam sinned second, but sin entered the world through Adam, not through her, even though she sinned first. That's Romans 5-12, sin entered the world through one man. Furthermore, when they were hiding in the garden, the pre-incarnate Christ came to them and said, to the man, where are you? He didn't say, Eve, what have you done?

Didn't say Adam and Eve, he said to the man, where are you? This is because the male is in the position of what's called federal headship. The male is in that position of authority, not the female. This is why it says all who are in Christ should be made alive, and all who are in Adam die. 1 Corinthians 15-22 talks about this, and this is called federal headship.

It is not the case that females represent their descendants, but the males do, biblically speaking. Now, Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain silent, for Adam was first created. The word silent there in Greek is hessoukiia. It's not segao, segao means absolute silence, don't utter a single sound. Hessoukiia means keep it down, and you can even keep it more down, you can even be more quiet.

That's what hessoukiia means, you're quiet, but be more hessoukiia, okay, even more hessoukiia, even more quiet, even more quiet. So it's not saying absolute silence, and it's in the context of the authority structure in the church, because in the next chapter, in 1 Timothy 3.15, Paul says he's giving instruction on how we're to behave in the household of God. So the woman is not to be in position of authority over men in the church, okay, that's what it specifically says, and it ties it to Adam, not to Eve, and it ties it not to culture, but to Adam, because Adam was first created. Now, when it says, let me get to here, let me do this, when it says in Ephesians 4.11, he gave some as apostles, and that's the masculine in the Greek, some as prophets, that's the masculine in the Greek, some as evangelists, that's the masculine in the Greek, and some as pastors and teachers, and these are masculine in the Greek. Now it doesn't mean in that sense, it necessarily means that women can't be teachers or evangelists, but the norm is that this is a male kind of a dominated thing.

All right, so, now, when we get to the pastoral epistles, and we go to, for example, you go to Titus 1, I think it's 5, for this reason I left you in Crete, Paul says to Titus, that you set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city that I directed you. And the word elders in Greek is plural masculine, and we don't do this in Greek, in English very much, except, you know, actresses and actors, that has a plurality and gender. But here in Greek, we have, it's all the time, so the elders here are in the plural, and it says if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and it says... in the Greek, a man of one woman, a husband of one woman. So the elder, who is a pastor, is supposed to be a husband of one wife, or a man who holds to one wife.

I'm almost done here, I'm laying the case out. Now, the elders, okay, that's the word elders, the elders are to be husbands of one wife, or men who hold to having one wife, that a female can't do that. The elders, in 1 Timothy 5, 17, it says the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. Preaching and teaching is something the pastors do. So the elders, in this church context, the pastor is automatically an elder, so pastors have that natural word meaning of being a male. If you call a female a pastor, a pastor of women, a pastor of children, then people go to church, they hear a woman being called a pastor, and this is wrong, because they might be deceived into thinking, well, it's okay for women to be pastors, they go to another church down the street, United Methodist Church of Liberal Idiocy, and they go down and they hear a woman pastor over there, and they go, that's okay, it's good. And so this is why it's all bad, the theological foundation is there, I know I went quickly, and women are not to be in that place, they should not be called pastors, because that's not their position, and that's it.

And if they don't like it, then I recommend, I recommend if they don't like it, take 1 Timothy 2 out of your Bible, 1 Timothy 3, 1 Timothy 5, Titus 1, and get rid of those, because then you can do what you want with scripture. Okay, so if, I understand that, I got that loud and clear, if a man were to be called a pastor, usually we just talk about the pastor of our church, one pastor, but if there happens to be a man that has his ministries leading some men, couldn't he be called a pastor? No, I wouldn't call him a pastor, nope, no, a pastor is someone who is recognized by the church being in an authoritative teaching, preaching position inside the church, that's what it's for, that's what the pastor is, the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching, and pastors are preachers and teachers by definition, and so they are also elders, that means that an elder is someone who is appointed by the laying on of hands, not just somebody who has a ministry to fix car engines, you know when the church was a good thing, you wouldn't call them the pastor of engine fixing, you wouldn't call them that, it makes the word into nothing, it's like saying, if everybody is a pastor, then nobody is a pastor, okay?

Well yeah, that's what I was going to approach one of the pastors, well what about my Sunday school teacher, she's a teacher of the women, why not call her pastor, why not call a man that is kind of leading the boys, why not call him pastor, we can all be pastors. That's right, it's false, what church is this in Salt Lake area? The Baptist church. The Baptist church, yeah, unfortunately the Baptist church is getting worse and worse, Baptist is domination, I can't recommend it anymore.

Well I hate to see a church calling into this, whatever you want to call it, whoa church, liberalism. Hold on, I want to talk to you more about this, we've got a break, we've got a break, hold on, okay, I want to hear this, hey folks, sorry about that, we had to go to a break, if you want to give me a call, four open lines, 877-207-2276, please give me a call, be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back everybody, let's get back on the line with Dionne from Salt Lake City. All right.

You there? Yeah, I held, I didn't know if you wanted to meet you or not, you know, it may seem like a simple question and nothing of great importance, but what's going on in the world today with all of this liberalism and woke and culture, you know, things going on? It seems like the church is our last stronghold to find the truth, and if I find a church kind of giving in, then it bothers me of what else will they do, and I just cherish the fact that you can go to church and find the truth, and the truth is what we're all after, isn't it? Truth? Well, people who love truth are after truth, but the left is not after truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well Jesus says, I am the truth, so we understand that as Christians, the truth is Jesus, but from a, whatever you call it, we're all after the truth. Not all people are. It seems to me.

No, like the leftists, the progressives. I was supposed to go by the Mormon church for many, many years, and so truth to me is critical. I don't want to live my life under a lie, and so I just want to guard the church to stick with the principles and stand on the truth of the word of God. That's how I want.

Yes, that's what I want, too, but Jesus. So I probably will talk to my pastor about this, because to me it's kind of important. I mean, I listen to you a lot, and I... It's very important. On Carm, there's an article... I'm going to see how important it is to them.

On Carm, I believe... I just take women's lib. Let's not cave into women's lib, you know, just because they want to be equal with men. We all know that if we took over a man's position, he'd be glad for us to do it. He's all up for that, because now I can go by God. Let's get back to the pastor thing. There's an article on Carm, Should Women Be Called Pastors?

And I believe it's dealing with the issue you raised. You need to go to the elders of the church, you need to talk to them about this. And if they're already allowing this, they're probably already liberal in a few other areas as well. And they need to repent, they need to repent of it, flat out. I hope they're listening. I hope they're on the air, or driving or whatever, or hear me say it, they need to repent of calling women pastors.

Women pastors are not biblical. I would be glad to drive down to Salt Lake City and have a meeting with a bunch of pastors about this, and have a discussion about it. I would be more than happy to do that. Okay? I would. Oh, I know that if my friends are listening, they'll hear the word Deon Anderson, and they'll say, oh, I know her, you know, I know what she's talking about, but I appreciate you being on air and helping us to keep our minds and hearts in line with what the word of God says. That's what I'm trying to do. By God's grace.

All of it might be. Yep. Thank you. All right.

Okay, well God bless, Deon. Bye. Okay. All right. Hey folks, Four Open Lines. Call 877-207-2276. Let's get to David from Southern Alabama.

I've never been to Alabama. Hey, welcome. How you doing, Matt? Good. Good. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks.

I'm a first-time caller. Okay. My wife primarily is a long-time listener. Oh, she's a good woman. And my question has... Yeah, she definitely is. She's my strength, believe it or not. Oh, praise God.

Definitely. But her, my in-laws, her mother, and actually her mother's husband, are devout SDAs. And my wife, again, primarily is a long-time listener, and she does a lot of reading. But she mentioned that there was a connection between the SDAs and the Freemasons. And with Ellen G. White, I didn't know if you were familiar with any of that history, or if you could speak to that.

No, I'm not familiar with that. I know that there was the Campbellite movement in the 1800s, and some Methodist kind of division, some issues. An SDA came out in association with some of this stuff. But I do know the Masons were alive and well back then, and I know that the Masons have a connection with Mormonism, also with Catholicism, and in some Protestant movements, too.

But I've not been aware of that in the SDA movement, which I would love to have documentation on. Because I can't recommend either group. I can't recommend the SDA, and I certainly don't recommend the Freemasons. The Freemasons have lots of problems in there. Lots of problems.

And no Christian should be involved with them. Yes, yes sir, her, my understanding is her grave site has an obelisk or some symbolism related to the Freemasons and the Sonic Rite, and it's kind of one indicator there. But anyway, I just appreciate it. I didn't know if you had some input on that or any information, but I sure appreciate it, sir. Well, I'm actually looking, trying to find her gravestone.

I've got to have pictures and stuff like that. Ellen G. White, birthplace of, let's see if I can find the, let's see. Henry White died, well that's different. Yeah, I don't know.

Find a grave memorial. Ellen Gould Harmon White, 915, yeah that's her. And there, I'm looking at it, and Ellen G. White, quorum may, I can't, it's not very clear. So quorum, it's something, I can't read it, so I don't know. I was hoping to see, because sometimes they'll have symbols on things like that, but I don't see a thing there. So, but I'm interested in the information, you know, if it's there.

You never know. Yes sir. Yes sir. What's your wife's name, first name? She's Kay, actually her first name is Anita, but she, so she says it's too southern, Anita Kay. Anita Kay. She goes by Kay.

Anita Kay, and she'd kill me if she knew I was telling you that, but I guess the world knows now. Your wife, your wife sounds like my wife, but I'm just saying it because if she's listening, I'm waving, you know, hey Anita Kay, how you doing? Keep listening. Oh yeah, she's listening. She's outside listening, so I'm interested.

She's outside listening. Is she smiling? Maybe if you're lucky, you'll get an arm hit, you know, because I like arm hits. My wife doesn't arm hit me anymore because of her health, because last time she did, she goes, ow, that hurt, because I'm so manly and tough, you know, so I just, we got nobody waiting, so I'm stalling here. So that's why I talked to her and she, and she gets me in the, which happened about a year and a half ago, last time she hit me in the shoulder and she goes, oh, I like that. And I said, that's because I'm a man, you know, she's close her eyes.

So poor woman, you know? Yeah. All right. All right. Well, all right, man. Well, God bless.

You two keep listening. All right. Thank you, man. All right. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Bye bye.

Sure, no problem. The seventh day stands for seventh day Adventism. So let me talk about that a little bit because, well, why not? I can go through and tell you that the Seventh Day Adventist Church, what they teach is you're supposed to worship on Saturday. Now, you're free to worship on Saturday.

You can if you want, but you're not obligated to do that. If you want to, you're free to, but some Seventh Day Adventists say that in order to truly worship God properly, you must do it on Saturday, and that's not the case. Now, they have a really bad, bad doctrine that ultimately are simply placed on Satan. They get this out of the Old Testament scapegoat stuff.

This is because they are denying, they don't realize it, the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice in the relationship to the penal substitutionary work of Christ. And so they teach that on October 22nd, 1844, Jesus entered a second and last phase of his atoning work. The second and last phase of his atoning work, no. Jesus said in John 19, 30, it's finished.

The atoning work was finished. So they just get a lot of things wrong. Dead don't exist anymore or they hold to soul sleep and the wicked are annihilated. Both of those are false teachings and I just can't recommend them, okay? I do not recommend the SDA Church. There are some that are absolutely cultic and some within the SDA movement that are not.

So I just can't recommend them and I don't. All right, let's get to Isaac from Iowa. Isaac, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. Hey. So what do you got, buddy?

Can you see my question? Why do churches believe the rapture comes first? First before what? Yeah.

First before what? The seven year tribulation and then the millennium because you talk about how that isn't true but then you never really explain the church's, the Baptist standpoint on it or whatever, whoever's standpoint that you don't believe in. Well, that's because the Schofield Reference Bible which promoted dispensationalism, which adopted pre-tribulation rapture, it was widely distributed Bible and a lot of people in America adopted it because, in my opinion, not because it's so biblical but because it's comforting that God's going to take us out before any trials and tribulations. And so I think that's why it took off. I've studied eschatology off and on for years.

I find nothing in the scripture that says pre-tribulation rapture. Nothing. Okay? Nothing.

I don't find it. Okay. I'll do some more research on my end and then see if I can figure out some evidence to bring you. Thank you. Oh, for pre-tribulation rapture? Sure.

Let me recommend something to you, though, because we've got another minute or two. You know what it says in the Bible, two men are in the field, one is taken, one is left? You know about that, right?

Yeah, I've heard you talk about this, but go on. So you know that's not the rapture. I mean, the rapture occurs, but that's not about the rapture. That's about the wicked being taken and if you read the context, that's what it is. It's clear. Matthew 24, Luke 17, read the parallels.

That's what it is. But what's really interesting is you go to Matthew 13, and in Matthew 13, and I'll go there and just read the exact words, because in Matthew 13, Jesus has spoken about the wheat and the tares, and the harvesters say, well, you want us to gather them up. But he says, no, don't do that, verse 30, allow both to go together and tell the harvest. In the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them.

So what's the harvest? Well, all the pre-tribbers I know say the harvest is the rapture. But Jesus says the first ones gathered are the wicked. So it's a problem because if pre-tribulation rapture is true, it's just one of the things I'm going to ask, how is it that the wicked are taken first? And Jesus says in Matthew 13, 40, so just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send forth his angels.

And notice what it says, he'll send forth his angels and they'll gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit law, all the systems thrown into the fire. So it just doesn't make sense to say pre-trib rapture as far as I'm concerned. And the reason I'm talking about this, because normally I wouldn't care, you don't believe pre-trib? Believe it. I believe we're going to be in persecution. I believe the church is coming under more persecution.

I think too many people are looking to pre-trib rapture as a way of escape, and because of it, their faith will wane, and I'm worried about that. That's why I think it's important. Okay?

That's the reason. All right, buddy? All right. All right. Thank you very much. Okay, God bless. Thank you. The persecution's coming.

In fact, God is even granting that to us. He does that. I flipped it to 129. I know.

Here it goes mad again. I'm teaching that depressing stuff. Hey, God bless. We'll talk to you tomorrow. See you. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.