Lab Leak Theory: What Did Fauci Know and When?

Today on Sekulow, as evidence for the lab theory grows, what did Dr. Fauci and the NIH know and when did they know it? We'll talk about that today on Sekulow. The first thing I would like to know from all of these Fauci emails, and we took our time, I had our team going through this because though this news was breaking last week, it was thousands upon thousands of emails. So you want to figure out what's the most relevant for the audience and the discussion that we are having today on the broadcast and Rick Grenell will be joining us as well.

But it takes me back to this. We do all this FOIA work. In fact, we have a FOIA on this specific issue to the NIH. We will likely have to file a lawsuit as part of this FOIA. Someone, these news agencies, Buzzfeed, which is not exactly the most prestigious of any, mostly it's a bunch of quizzes for teenage girls. But yet they filed FOIA, so did the Washington Post. I guess it is somewhat more respected as a large journalist when they would have the lawyers to do this. But no indication they had to go to court to get thousands of emails during the pandemic while it's still ongoing from a current government official about something with the national security revelation. Also, they did this to Rick Grenell. They got his emails without court order and they dumped them all.

In Rick's, I think they gave him next to no notice and just sent them out there and said, here they are. They're from the Director of National Intelligence. Right off the bat, I think that this reeks of Washington, D.C. What happened is Washington has no news. Joe Manchin, which we're going to talk about in the second half hour, killed their big voting, their next voting bill, this H.R.

1. If he holds true to what he wrote in his op-ed for the newspaper in West Virginia to his constituents, if he holds true to that and the fact that he's not going to override the filibuster, this again, Washington is, I think the Trump derangement syndrome is coming to a, it's not done, but it's kind of calming down. They're looking for, okay, what's the truth about COVID?

If none of these theories about the bats make sense. So suddenly, now Washington, D.C. has made Fauci the bad guy and basically ruined his career. And he's trying to go on an offensive campaign on saying, well, you know, it was just in the beginning, we were just trying to figure this out. What's interesting is Jonathan Karl on ABC said, well, you know, Donald Trump and he may have been right that this in fact was intentionally created in a lab in China, but he was giving us so much other nonsense, we just couldn't believe it. Until now, I guess he was right. It must have killed him to have to admit that. To admit that Donald Trump was right on anything must have been something that ABC News had to take, swallow like a rock. I mean, the President was right.

He was right on what he said, but now the liberal democratic media is having to admit that and I know that it's killing him, Jay. No, there's no doubt about it. The question is here, what does this mean? And it's really, folks, we need to concentrate on, Jordan, is this is a national security issue.

It's not pointing fingers on should you wear a mask or not wear a mask. Those were in there, but you know what, that's inconsequential in the scheme of things. What's big here is what are the national security geopolitically to ramifications on this? Rick Rinnell, our senior advisor on those issues will be joining us later in this broadcast.

Yeah, that's right. I mean, in the back and forth, the dismissal outright that China could have had anything to do with this in a lab when our own President was telling us they did. And the intel pointing that way, it appears, but yet there was a decision and it looks like, I'll just read this quickly, this was from Vanity Fair. It said in one State Department meeting, officials seeking to demand transparency from the Chinese government say they were told by colleagues not to explore the Wuhan Institute of Virology's gain-of-function research because it may bring unwelcome attention to U.S. government funding of it. So were we funding the creation of COVID-19 in the Wuhan lab? That is another question now because, I mean, this is coming from Vanity Fair.

So we've got Washington Post, Vanity Fair, BuzzFeed. These were the ones who were going after President Trump most of his four years. For saying that this was, you know, possibly created intentionally at a lab in Wuhan, China, which apparently looks like the evidence. That's where it's pointing. And now they're doing their apologies, but a little too late.

Yeah, exactly. And of course, all the implications this has for the future as well, because we know how this pandemic affects our economy. We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift.

Welcome back to Sekulow. We're going to take your phone calls too on this. 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. A lot of this focusing in on there's an email. This dates back to, again, February 1st.

We need to set that up too. February 1st is when we first started getting word that this was a serious issue that could have big implications. It was just a month later that the country was shut down six weeks later. So it's to Fauci from someone who he works with outside of this scientific world. We have the article right here. This was mining the coronavirus genomes for clues to the outbreak's origins. Again, it was in Science Magazine.

It was a pretty thorough article for scientists, by scientists. In the email, this scientist to Anthony Fauci actually was sent on January 31st. This is people sending emails at 1030 at night on New Year's Eve.

Not New Year's Eve, January 31st. I'll tell you what we were doing midnight on January 31st, 2020, preparing for the next day of the impeachment trial. Yeah, so they knew this was coming. They're sending emails at 1030 at night. But here's what's clear in this email.

Hi, Tony, and then you go down. So they were talking about how they looked at it. So one has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some of the features potentially look engineered. Well, if they were engineered, guess what that means? They didn't come from a bat to a human.

But they go on further. I should mention that after discussions earlier today, and he mentions a number of scientists, all I guess that Fauci would know, Eddie, Bob, and Mike. So very casually written and myself, the genome inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory, i.e. this did not jump from an animal to animal. This had to be created by man.

This was not part of the evolution of animals taking this to a level where it developed to such a high potency that they could then transfer this to humans. Yeah, the big portion of this. This was back in 2020.

Yeah. Now, what needs to be understood here is that what are the implications of this? Again, looking at it geopolitically.

I'm going to go to Andy first, and then I got a political question for Jordan and Pam, but I want to go to Andy on this. Because, you know, here you've got emails that are actually coming out, and these emails are saying very clearly that it's pointing towards, this is a year and almost a half ago, that this was intentionally created by a lab which the United States was helping to fund. Yet the talking point was it was created in a wet market in China from a bat transmission to a human. Well, this idea of a bat transmission to a human, I think we can safely put that aside.

There is nothing that points to this Dracula-like transmission from Bela Lugosi to a human being, and we need to set that aside once and for all. I think that the evidence is going to show, and I follow the evidence on this, and we need to investigate it completely and entirely, but the evidence is going to show that this was definitely engineered by a lab in the Wuhan Virology Institute. Probably, no question about it, funded by the United States, which makes it doubly abhorrent to me, and that it was transmitted by the Chinese either through negligence or, in my view, intentionality to their own population regardless of what was going to happen to their own population. Dr. Fauci notwithstanding saying they wouldn't do this to their own population.

Nonsense. Of course they would. They have no scruples with respect to that, and then ultimately to the entire world. We've sent out, Than, a FOIA request to, in this particular case, it's to the National Institutes of Health, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and the Director of Information Management Office. And what we've sought is records pertaining to communications, knowledge, and efforts surrounding the breaking story that the Biden administration shut down, froze, delayed, paused, or repurposed an investigation into the origins of the COVID-19 outbreak, initiated by previous administrations. Anthony Fauci's admission to Congress of U.S. funds benefiting the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the ODNI acknowledge of and actions and investigations of the origin of COVID-19.

Again, we're focusing on not who had a mask or who did not have a mask and whether he knew the masks were helpful or not helpful. Put that all aside. I'm looking at the political ramifications and the geopolitical ramifications.

Than? Yeah, from the very beginning, Jay, we've been focused on what the federal government and the House and the Senate, quite frankly, should have been focused on back in January of 2020. We want to know the truth and we want to know it for two reasons, Jay. Number one, if the Chinese were responsible for this, as it increasingly looks like they were, they need to be held to account. But maybe even more important than that, Jay, the reason we've issued this FOIA is to make sure that this never happens again, or at least that the United States does everything within our power to make sure that those responsible, that we don't partner with them in the future so that there's not another pandemic going forward. Jay, one of the very specific things that we're asking for in this FOIA is why did this administration suspend the investigation started by Secretary Pompeo to investigate this lab leak?

We all know now that it is the most likely scenario, and quite frankly, anybody that looked at it seriously knew that it was a very high probability from the beginning. The last administration was looking into it. Jay, we want to know why this administration suspended it because, quite frankly, even if it ended up not to be the case, not investigating it to a conclusion, that is totally irresponsible.

Well, it changes the way in which we engage, Jordan, on an international level here. Yeah, and it's upsetting, too. I think that Dr. Fauci needs to be fired from these emails. His career should be heavily tarnished, and whatever other population control measures he would love to implement around the world, maybe they won't be because he works closely with the Gates Foundation, which is all about how many children they can abort that are poor around the world, because it's a population control group. Because I guess the billionaires only want the world for themselves. The idea, though, is this.

He sat down on Fox and Friends, April 2020. This is his direct quote. It boggles my mind how when we have so many diseases that emanate out of the usual human-animal interface, that we don't just shut it down.

I don't know what else has to happen to get us to appreciate that, because that's what we're going through right now. I mean, he says right there, we are going through human-animal interface. And this is a direct result of that. And again, this was bats infecting humans and these wet markets in China. Again, those have been linked before.

Senator Rubio talked about this. There's been SARS, there's been MERS, and they were able to find the animal origin within a few months. So if you can't find the animal origin in over a year, suddenly what people were talking about a year ago that was just dismissed outright as conspiratorial, it was anti-Asian, broadly, to suggest that there was possibly, at a minimum and in a best-case scenario, an accidental leak. I mean, no one is saying that because you could prove anything in this that it was intentional. That would be a step that, again, Intel would have to deal with and verify.

Because that would be an act of war if they did that. But what we know is that these individuals, for instance, the scientist who was quoted in that piece, by the way, who emailed Dr. Fauci about the expectations that it's inconsistent with the evolutionary theory, it looks engineered, he's now taken down his Twitter account. So these people are being inundated with those who still do have the Trump Derangement Syndrome.

How dare you? How dare you have questioned this Dr. Fauci? No one had ever heard of it before. And I think that there was this idea, we have a new blog up from Ali Holston, it's up at ACLJ.org, about what did Fauci know and when. This was the idea that the American people at the beginning of this leak wanted to trust someone who came not from politics, came from science and medicine, came from the NIH, a place that shouldn't be playing partisan politics. And again, not that they'd get everything right and perfect, but if they made a definitive statement, we could take it and trust it. But we all started realizing these definitive statements didn't make sense. It started out with things like masks not working, working. I think that they probably did work for a lot of situations.

You could see there was no flu in America. But it was definitive all the time. I think that was his biggest problem. Always definitive, but what I'm concerned about, and we're going to get to the bottom of this in our FOIA litigation. And kind of mocking the chief on the other side.

Yes, mocking anybody else, but Andy, here's what we're doing. We're in discussions, which will end up in court, with the current administration to find out why they shut down these investigations. That is a critical thing that I want to know, too, and we're going to get to the bottom of it, Jay, but you know, Secretary Pompeo had started an investigation as to what was going on in the Wuhan lab and our funding of it and so forth.

And suddenly, the Biden administration cuts that out and suspends it. Why? What's there to hide? Why don't you want to know what the facts are? Why are you not wanting to know what exactly went on in China with respect to this virus? What is the reason for this? What is behind it? What are the political implications of it? Why is Joe Biden hiding it?

Why is his administration being elusive? These are the things that we want to find out. All right, we come back. Rick Renell will be joining us in the next segment of the broadcast. You know, we first talked to Rick about this when it was just starting to shift.

I mean, this idea was just starting to shift, and now it's full-blown. It's like, they're in their apology tour. They all have to get in their apologies at some time on TV.

I'm sorry that we called Donald Trump and his supporters, you know, liars for suggesting that possibly that the President of the United States is receiving the highest level of intel that Jonathan Karl would never ever receive in his entire life. That possibly said, hey, this may have been a lab leak. By the way, I think that's being nice to the Chinese, calling it lab leak and not lab intentional. Or certainly negligence. Yeah, I mean, or, you know, the bad actors that could have gotten involved. We don't know that one yet.

We'll be right back. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the play on parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life.

Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. The challenges facing Americans are substantial. At a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack, it's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena.

And we have an exceptional track record of success. But here's the bottom line, we could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life changing work.

Become a member today, ACLJ.org. Alright, so we're learning more and more as the time goes on. We wanted to have time with our team to go through these emails from Anthony Fauci that were released. Rick Rinnell, our Senior Advisor, joining us now as well. Rick, one of the things I love about these emails is Buzzfeed puts in a FOIA request and they get your emails, they get Fauci's emails, we put in requests, we're in court for three to four years. But, you know, in these emails what we see is there was definitely not this certainty that we were all being told and that now that the Trump Derangement Syndrome is, I guess, it's starting to come down a little bit in Washington, D.C., cooling off a little in Washington, D.C. And the science is starting to catch up to reality and the reality now is that you basically see all the Sunday shows and the Washington reporters on an apology tour, we shouldn't have told you that Donald Trump was lying about this.

This idea, again, that, you know, when we first talked about it, it was a big shift that they were even considering it. Now it's the leading theory, Rick, that this was lab-created and that Dr. Fauci was learning about this from his colleagues before this was even declared a pandemic in the United States. Look, I keep harping on this, but if you go back to the DNI website April 30th, 2020, there is a statement from the entire intelligence community. An intelligence community-wide statement is extremely rare and in that statement we make very clear that this started in China and it's either in the lab or in the wet markets and we briefed reporters to say the lab leak is the leading hypothesis. This is where our intelligence community is going. This is what they are investigating. And since then, of course, the people in Washington who just protect the ruling party, the Democrats, have completely changed their tune. And yet I can attest to the fact we told Washington Post reporters, CNN reporters, New York Times reporters of this exact lab leak theory and they ignored it because it didn't fit into their politics at the time.

Rick, one of the things that I'm concerned about is I don't want to get into, you know, who should wear a mask and who should not wear a mask and was Fauci right on the mask or not right on the mask. What I want to focus in on is what are the geopolitical ramifications for all of this if in fact the Chinese government, which is what the Wuhan lab is, did intentionally create this. Now, they will say they were intentionally creating it.

Well, they'll never admit they intentionally created it. There will be medical justifications possibly that they may put forward. But what are the geopolitical ramifications when they never have admitted what they actually have done here, which created a worldwide pandemic? The first one that comes to mind is, you know, Donald Trump froze out the World Health Organization money, the U.S. money, going to WHO. And he did that because the evidence shows that they were in bed with China, that they were not willing to be tough on Chinese researchers, on the Chinese policy positions. And one area that we were trying to make progress in is to get other countries to freeze out the WHO, to make substantive changes to the international body. And we were onto something and we were making some progress with the Europeans until the Democrats completely tried to make this a partisan issue. And they defended the WHO.

And now the Biden administration has returned the money there. So on a global scale, we, the United States, are struggling with our credibility of whether or not we're going to allow the Chinese to take over U.N. agencies or not. The world knows that the Chinese in control of the WHO are a dangerous path. We were making progress on it, but we've had to dial that back. I don't think we're going to be able to be successful internationally until we recognize that the international organization designed to protect us from global pandemics is completely controlled by the people pushing pandemics.

No, I think you're right. You know, I remember back when you were in office and I was representing at that point the President. I remember that this whole issue, as it was maturing over the summer months, as we got to April and May, and the President clearly, and he said it publicly, was concerned that this virus was created by the Chinese Communist Party. That there should have been ramifications for this. There should have been a cost to this economically.

And he talked about this in the speech he gave the other day about sanctions and tariffs and other things that politically could have been leveraged to have the Chinese pay a penalty for this. My great fear here is, Rick, is that we're going to find all of this out and nothing is going to happen. Nothing will change. And we will still give them money. That the moment has passed us. I fear the same thing, Jay, is because when we had the world's attention because of this, that's the time to act. And too many times the international community will punt or the Chinese or the Russians or some other bad actor will move to, like, you know, let's say a three month report.

Let's study this for three months. They want to push it down. They want to make time go by because as time goes by, the international community loses its fervor and its unity in doing something. So I fear the same thing that we might have missed it. However, the Democrats have a chance to lead the world. Imagine if the Democratic Party would just completely change now and say, we see the evidence, we see that the Chinese not only were responsible for this, but what they did to the rest of the world in hiding it. That, the cover up, is really the economic devastation that we need to be focused on. Yeah, I mean, because, again, I go back to this, I want to play this soundbite from Dr. Fauci because, again, this was back in, we've got one April 17th and then it goes right into one on May 4th back in 2020.

So more than a year ago. Take a listen. Mutations that it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human. This could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated the way the mutations have naturally evolved. And that right there, Rick, is the serious problem, because that's when everybody said, well, President Trump is a liar, his administration liar, the people out there in the administration saying that this- The Chinese didn't do anything wrong? The Chinese absolutely couldn't have done anything wrong. Maybe there's problems with how they handle these wet markets, but it's not, I mean, he says this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated.

Now we're talking about, but in his emails in 2020, he's talking about how we may have funded gain-of-function research, which is artificially or deliberately manipulating a virus. Yeah, look, there's so much evidence that shows the cover-up that the Chinese were doing, or let's also be clear, the Chinese not allowing there to be flights internally from Wuhan out to the rest of China, but allowing international flights. Now they knew exactly the problem, they shut down Wuhan, they shut down areas where they could, and they played fast to cover up because they didn't want the rest of the world to somehow beat up on them. And then they went into an aggressive spy push where they used the PPE that they controlled with the world.

The world needed PPE, the Chinese knew it, and they used it against the rest of the world. All right, folks, great to always have Rick Renell. We've got a second half hour coming up next. Go to ACLJ.org. New blog, What Did Fauci Know and Win? A lot of what we're talking about today is up there at ACLJ.org. As always, we encourage you to support the work of the American Center for Law and Justice at ACLJ.org. Again, your work, your support financially is why we're able to continue to engage these issues, get real insight on these issues, not just talk conspiracy theories, talk facts, talk information.

Do the research, put the time in so that we provide you the best information possible. We'll be right back. Second half hour coming up. Please stand with us at ACLJ.org where you can learn more about our life changing work. Become a member today.

ACLJ.org. Come on back to Sekulow. Second half hour, we are going to take your calls, too. If you've got questions, comments, this is the time to get them in. As we're getting this information out to you, 1-800-684-3110.

That's 1-800-684-3110. So we are talking about, of course, we wanted to have time to go through the emails that Dr. Fauci released to a Free Information Act request. Interesting enough, one of the first emails received going back to January 31st, 2020, was from a scientist friend of Dr. Fauci's, Christian Anderson. Before there was a pandemic declared, people knew that there was something, COVID had reached the United States at a smaller scale, didn't know there was going to be, we did not know. Remember, these were the same people who advised the President, it'll just take a couple weeks.

So the fact that they acted like they knew what was going on was absurd. To make these definitive statements like we just played for you in the last segment with Rick, this is absolutely 100%, could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated, so it couldn't have been lab created. I mean, that's Dr. Fauci back in May of 2020, but yet in January of 2020, he's getting reports sent to him from his colleagues in the scientific community saying, you look at the sequences here and the features look engineered. The same person, Christian Anderson, goes on to say, myself, and he names a bunch of other officials, believe the genome is inconsistent with expectations from evolutionary theory, aka it's not jumping from an animal. This is not going from animal to human transmission. It is why Senator Marco Rubio has pointed out that animal link has not been found.

In the past, they were found within months, because the world wanted to know what was the cause of this, how do we prevent this. So he knows this back in January of 2020, but yet in May of 2020, he's making definitive statements. I'm going to play it again for everybody, because this is again, four or five months later, definitive statements from Fauci that all of his friends must be totally wrong, even though they're looking at the genomic sequencing and saying there's no way this was created. This went from an animal to a human.

Take a listen. The mutations that it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human. This could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated.

The way the mutations have naturally evolved. Naturally, you know, is what we're talking about. This is the opposite of what his colleagues were telling him in the emails that have been released is the exact opposite. This is not what people were being told. This is not the information that was being shared. So I think, again, it goes to, again, another question that we all want to know.

Why? No one forced Fauci to make these definitive statements. No one made him say, unless the Chinese are paying him, and that's why he's forced. The only thing I can figure out for why a scientist who knows it takes a long time to research things would so definitively, even after being warned by his colleagues, not even just warned, just sharing their insight at that point, this was early on, that they don't think it could have been just animal to human. Even if it was created, started in an animal, it would have been at such a weak level that it had to have been lab created to make it, and that's gain of function that keeps being talked about.

And there's a theory. Were we funding the gain of function research? He emailed somebody on a Saturday, and this is the government bureaucracies, email him on a Saturday, keep your cell phone on, read this paper. The paper that was sent to him on the gain of function about from his friend, Christian Anderson, who, by the way, took down their Twitter account, he gets a response back.

Hey, the paper you sent were performed before the gain of function pause because we were funding that, but since it's been reviewed and approved by NIH, I will try to determine if we have any distant ties to this work abroad. Are we funding this work? So we're just getting started. I think that 600,000 number is just the beginning, and I think that the only explanation for his definitiveness is that he must be making money from China. And there's some reason why he's protecting the Chinese government and this lab.

We'll be right back. The challenges facing Americans are substantial at a time when our values, our freedoms, our constitutional rights are under attack. It's more important than ever to stand with the American Center for Law and Justice. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines protecting your freedoms, defending your rights in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. And we have an exceptional track record of success.

But here's the bottom line. We could not do our work without your support. We remain committed to protecting your religious and constitutional freedoms.

That remains our top priority, especially now during these challenging times. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you. And if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work.

Become a member today. ACLJ.org. Only when a society can agree that the most vulnerable and voiceless deserve to be protected is there any hope for that culture to survive. And that's exactly what you are saying when you stand with the American Center for Law and Justice to defend the right to life. We've created a free, powerful publication offering a panoramic view of the ACLJ's battle for the unborn.

It's called Mission Life. It will show you how you are personally impacting the pro-life battle through your support. And the publication includes a look at all major ACLJ pro-life cases, how we're fighting for the rights of pro-life activists, the ramifications of Roe v. Wade 40 years later, the Planned Parenthood's role in the abortion industry, and what Obamacare means to the pro-life movement. Discover the many ways your membership with the ACLJ is empowering the right to life. Request your free copy of Mission Life today online at ACLJ.org slash gift. Alright, welcome back to Sekulow again. Your comments, your calls as well, 1-800-684-3110.

I want to flash back to this. This is again May of 2020, months after his friends and his colleagues have told Dr. Fauci that they believe after looking at all the information they've seen, there's no way this came from an animal to human, that this had to be manipulated somehow. Even if there was some kind of virus that started out in an animal, that that's what that gain of function is. You take the power of the virus up to a level that it would be necessary to infect human beings so that you can then, if you have good intentions, create the vaccine or the solution to preventing that from happening. And so, how much are we funding of this?

But yet, he's totally still with this bat theory. Which again, I think that if the Chinese government had to pick, do you want to slam us for our food decisions or that we may have intentionally in a lab created a weaponized vaccine that would halt the world. And by the way, I still want to remind you, America, because of the Trump administration and Operation Warp Speed, is at the leading edge of opening. The rest of the world is not. The UK is saying that they are now reevaluating their June 21st date, that that was a suggestion but may not happen.

Other parts of Europe are... Japan was trying to huff the Olympics without people going out. I mean, I think we still have not seen the full-on consequence of this because we're so focused on what's happening in our own country and things are better here, thanks to, again, the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed. That doesn't get us to the answers about why we had to have an Operation Warp Speed in the first place. Exactly. So I'm going back to the geopolitical aspect of this, Harry, and the economic consequences of this, which to the Chinese government so far have been zero. Where you would think our biggest leverage as our largest training partner would have been that factor, the economics of this. You're right, except we should also keep in mind that the US government's judgment on this particular question has always been clouded by the fact that there is substantial influence internal to the United States that is coming from China.

What do I mean? I mean that so many Americans and American multinational enterprises profit from dealing with China. They have therefore been reluctant to crack down hard on the Chinese. And guess what? Those companies have contributed major political contributions to the Democratic Party. So you can argue that this possible cover-up has indeed been what?

An inside job from the get-go. Yeah, when I get all this information I kind of compile it together and you think Washington, DC, these kind of shifts in just a period of months don't happen so quickly, but the media allowed that world to come on and they're allowing Fauci to come on and try and defend himself. But I would expect when Congress returns and he's called back to testify, this should be a very different kind of testimony because he's already taken a lot of heat from Republican senators willing to step up, but now maybe Democrats are willing to step up because the mainstream media is giving them the green light to do so.

Yeah, maybe Jordan, although I'll tell you, I'm not going to count on it. I think this is why we continue our FOIA practice. This is why we continue to demand information from the outside because the change of narrative in Washington, DC only happens when it's forced.

I would tell you a couple of things, Jordan. Number one, the time period involved here, this was when the United States really could have done something substantive to prevent the spread of the pandemic. And it was Dr. Fauci and the NIH's job to make sure that all of the information they had was elevated. Clearly, he was not doing that. Number two, Jordan, the lab leak or the lab source was always actually the least controversial theory. And then finally, and I think this is the most important one, this is the question that I want Dr. Fauci asked when he does next come to Capitol Hill. Which country's bidding were you doing, Jordan? I mean, it was your job to protect America first.

Were you more interested in making sure that this virus did not impact the United States or at least had as little impact as possible, or were you most concerned on helping the Chinese cover it up? I think that question should be asked him exactly that directly. You know, I've got this.

Andy, I was thinking about this. You know, as lawyers, our job is follow the evidence and our job at the ACLJ here is to determine the evidence, to find the evidence, and that's why we have issued a very lengthy Freedom of Information Act demand to these various agencies. Which unfortunately will require, as Jordan mentioned, court action to get the answers to. Because the ramifications of this being created in a wet market by accident versus intentionally created, for getting intentionally spread, I'm just talking about intentionally created. And the cover up that's taken place here has ramifications geopolitically. The world, as I said earlier, is still paying the consequences of this. In some parts of the world, large parts of the world, it is becoming even less under control. India, like I said, I saw the report this morning in the UK, which was planning on opening in full on June 21st, now saying they're reevaluating their entire reopening posture because of a rise of cases.

The Chinese government has got to be held accountable. Well Jay, you've really hit it right on the head when you said that there are geopolitical implications involved here. This is a worldwide event.

That's why it's called a pandemic from the Greek pandemia. It affects the entire world. There is not a space on earth that was not touched by this. We need to know just exactly what happened. We don't need to be covering it up. We need to follow the evidence. And the investigation that Secretary Pompeo initiated should be reinstated and not suspended as President Biden has done. Because we need to know who funded – here's the questions that I would ask if I was in court and I had Dr. Fauci on the stand.

Who funded the Wuhan Virology Laboratory? What about this bat theory and why do you persist in saying that now that you've changed your mind in a year in between and say, well, that could have been engineered in the laboratory? What occurred during that year to change your mind, Dr. Fauci? What happened? What facts did you have that caused you to change your mind from bats to engineers?

And I'd like to know that. And the implications worldwide and our funding of the World Health Organization, which is completely controlled by the Chinese Communist Party in my estimation, is a foolish waste of United States taxpayers' money. But as you pointed out, there are geopolitical implications because it affects the entire world. And those have got to be investigated and not swept under the rug. Harry, what is the way forward in your view from a policy perspective here? Because what we're focusing – look, there's a lot of media about the mass and what he knew about the mass and didn't know about the mass. We're putting all that aside.

Okay, forget that as far as I'm concerned. What's important here is the geopolitical ramifications of this and what is the way forward? Well, I think we start with a serious investigation. And so we need to ask several questions.

Why did so many American experts engage in an effort to obscure the evidence of the most likely explanation for the virus, infecting and killing 600,000 Americans, 3.7 million deaths worldwide, and infecting 173.3 million people worldwide? This, I think, demands a serious investigation. It may require that we go beyond just a serious investigation to a criminal investigation. We need to determine the complicity of any CDC officials. We need to determine the complicity of any Chinese officials. And then, to the extent that we find affirmative evidence of Chinese complicity, we need to impose sanctions and provide a pathway forward for Americans to seek restitution and recovery because of Chinese negligence.

So I think that's a pathway that I favor. This is a very, very serious worldwide event and we cannot allow the Chinese or members of the CDC to get away with it. Van, you just put in the chat, I think this is important for people to understand, Harry's exactly right, but the reason they won't do it. Yeah, it destroys their political narrative, Jay. It's the same reason the vice President won't go down to the border. Because in both cases, the facts that you would discover if you actually were looking for the facts were ones that don't comport with the political narrative you've chosen.

And Jay, I would add one other thing here. I think by insisting that it was the wet market and not the Chinese government, it actually has fueled some of this anti-Chinese people sentiment. Jay, there's a big difference between the Chinese people and the Chinese Communist Party, the regime. The regime is the one that has behaved poorly and that we should be focused on. And this distraction, this following conspiracy theory is rather than pursuing the facts, Jay, unfortunately it's not the only issue where we've seen that happen.

Just the question is, will there be accountability, will people like Dr. Fauci be sidelined from these roles they're in? Because if you look at his statement, again, I'll read another one just quickly. If you look at the evolution of the virus and bats and what's out there now, the scientific evidence is very, very strongly leaning towards this could not have been artificially or deliberately.

Manipulated. And he doesn't believe in the alternate theory that someone found the coronavirus in the wild, brought it to a lab and then it accidentally escaped. So, I mean, this was again statements made in early 2020 when there was no way to be that definitive when his own colleagues and peers in the scientific world were telling him otherwise. He was making these statements. Why? Why? This didn't have to do with masks, this didn't have to do with the vaccine, why make this statement, why make it political?

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Become a member today. ACLJ.org. It's interesting because he did make very definitive statements oftentimes. I mean, perjury, you have to have an intent. Yeah, because like even with this very, very strong one, he says it's very, very strongly leaning towards, this could not have been. So he put out these words in between.

I think it's this. Why are we still taking anything from Anthony Fauci? You know, don't read his – no one should be reading his book. He was all over the place, and until he discloses whether or not he was making money for the Chinese government or Chinese affiliated organizations and scientific research grants and things like that, I don't think anybody should put him on TV and let him defend himself through these emails. The emails speak for themselves. All of his colleagues told him, you're wrong.

You're wrong. Stop going around saying that this is animals. And that this had something to do with how Chinese people purchase their meat, which, by the way, we have our own version of wet market at every single grocery store in America. Seafood sections, meat sections. Raw meat is out. Raw chicken is out. And we might have different meats. We might have different tastes. And that's also regional, too, and also cultural.

So if you go to one area of town, maybe this cultural group, you might see different food at the grocery store. Yes, it is different in China. Yes, they have issues with it in the past with disease spreading from animal to human. But that, again, putting it there gives a free pass to the Chinese government. That is the thing that I'm hoping... Blames Chinese people.

Yes. We're not talking... Yeah, the Chinese government was trying to blame, Andy, the Chinese people by saying it was this bat to human transmission in one of their unregulated wet markets. But the fact is what we have to determine is why did our government also shut down the investigatory process? And you've got the media now saying, oh, yeah, maybe Trump is right, or even more affirmative, Trump was right. But we have got to get to the bottom of why we're shutting these investigations down because there are ramifications for this.

Well, that's what I want to know. I want to know why are we shutting the investigations down? Why are we closing down an investigation that was begun by the Secretary of State and Secretary Pompeo, though, had endorsed it? Why are we now saying that we are going to close these investigations down? Because we don't want to know the truth?

Because we don't want to find out the facts? Look, the Chinese people is not the problem here. It's the regime. We said that. We've said it time and again. It's the Chinese Communist Party that's controlling this. We have leverage. We have a President of the United States who can call Xin Xiaoping, the President of China, and say, you're our biggest trading partner.

I want to know what went on with respect to the activities in this Wuhan lab. And I want you to tell me now or else we are going to put sanctions on you. President Trump would have done that.

Biden, I don't think there's any way in the world that he and his subservient Democrats would ever do that. But the lack of consequence here is, to me, very significant, Harry, because that's the policy message we're sending. You can create a virus. You can then be either intentional or negligent or whatever it was, getting it out, destroying world economies that are still suffering around the globe. And basically, the other governments are going to work hard to shut down the investigation of what actually happened. Absolutely.

And it goes further than that, of course. As Secretary of State Pompeo has noted, there was resistance within his own State Department to launching a full-blooded investigation of what went on in Wuhan. But I think we should concentrate on the behavior of Dr. Fauci. Did he engage in deliberate efforts to block a full-blooded investigation? Now, the inference that I raise from his conduct, or let's call it misconduct, is yes. Why would he block such an investigation? It's more likely than not, his handprints were all over the gain-of-function research which took place within the Wuhan laboratory.

What does that mean? It means that the United States was perhaps complicit in its own harm through CDC negligence, CDC misbehavior, and Dr. Fauci's own misbehavior. Keep in mind, we helped fund the Wuhan laboratory. We were aware that they were engaged in gain-of-function research. And so that is precisely what the scientific evidence now suggests, that the COVID-19 virus included gain-of-research documentation. So in an internal memo that was obtained by Vanity Fair, Jordan mentioned this earlier. The former acting Assistant Secretary of State's Department of the Bureau of Arms Control verification and compliance. Now let me read that again. The Assistant Secretary of the State Department's Bureau of Arms Control verification and compliance wrote that the staff from two bureaus, his own and the Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation warned leaders within his bureau not to pursue an investigation into the origins of COVID-19 because it would, quote, open up a can of worms.

Jordan, that is where it ends at the bottom. That is in the internal information. Yes, so they knew that there was a there there. They don't want the American people to know what that is. How much of our taxpayer dollars, because you know, when they say $600,000 over five years, I mean, that's nothing.

So that's not a lot of resources. You start adding that up, though, with that's what was known, what was not known, what was the money being used for. But opening up a can of worms, the idea again, that's what our government is there to do. They are there to open the can of worms to figure out why we're facing problems. But the bureaucracy surrounding itself, protecting itself, I don't know if they'll be able to get away with it this time because the media has shifted.

They are apologetic for saying that those who, like all the scientists who were telling Dr. Fauci that he was wrong, or at least to temper his words, that maybe they were right and that Fauci was wrong, he was not, you know, the be all end all on every single subject. And I think it goes to this, though. How long will he be kept around?

I mean, it would be interesting to see now, because President Trump had tried to remove him, it would have been like another impeachment. How long is Joe Biden going to really let this guy go on, use government salary to go on TV to defend himself so he can then sell a book? Yeah, well, and let me take it a step further, and we only got a minute here, Andy, but that's precisely why we are going to get this information at the ACLJ. We are going to get it at the ACLJ. We're determined to get it. This is what our FOIA litigation is about. We send a demand, they don't respond to it, we take them to court, we litigate the case, and the U.S. District Judge tells them they have to give it over, and that's what we're going to do, and we're going to get to the bottom of it.

If the government won't do it, the ACLJ will do it. You know, I mean, this is, again, we are doing all this work, we got the new piece up at ACLJ.org from Ali, from our team, our media team, What Did Fauci Know and Win, that is up, so it runs through everything we've been talking about today, and going through all this, that's all there chronologically for you at ACLJ.org, so you can share this with your friends and family, and you can share this with your friends and family now because the social media sites are allowing the idea that this was lab-created to be shared now with your friends and family, so let's do that. Again, if you have been someone who has been kind of irked by Fauci over these past year-plus, this is the time. The pile-on is occurring, and he is at the top. He was at the top of this, now he's at the bottom. He's trying to dig himself out of a hole. The question is, how many millions of dollars did he make from the Chinese Communist Party? Or his wife? Or his kids? Just like Joe Biden, same thing.

They've got that in common. We'll talk to you tomorrow. For decades now, the ACLJ has been on the front lines, protecting your freedoms, defending your rights, in courts, in Congress, and in the public arena. The American Center for Law and Justice is on your side. If you're already a member, thank you, and if you're not, well, this is the perfect time to stand with us at ACLJ.org, where you can learn more about our life-changing work. Become a member today. ACLJ.org.