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April 21, 2021 9:31 pm
When one examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective view .1 limited sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome of this additional viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM we continue looking at the book the LDS gospel topics series a scholarly and arrangement. It's a book dedicated to critiquing the gospel topics essays that the LDS church produced over a period of time between 2013 and 2015 today we are continuing our look at chapter 2 written by a man by the name of Richard Sherlock and he is critiquing the gospel topic essay titled, becoming like God.
Eric around the middle of page 65. Mr. Sherlock says on the topic of God having once been a man gospel topics essay at least does not deny that this is LDS doctrine.
I think that's a great admission.
I think that's important and I think it also demonstrates that the openness that we do sometimes find in these essays tend to clarify a lot of positions that some LDS leaders, or even perhaps some LDS laypeople have been reluctant to explain more fully, but he does have a problem with the essay, what is he say about that. However, the essay seems not to want to treat it, not even to provide the kinds of sources I have given to show its currency. But the essay does not deny its status and LDS belief where the essay is especially misleading in my view is with the belief that is at the core of the King Follett sermon that humans when they become God's will get or even create worlds to govern the gospel topics essay reads quote a cloud in a harp are hardly a satisfying image for eternal joy. Although most Christians would agree that inspired music can be a tiny foretaste of the joy of eternal salvation.
When you say though that explanation given by the LDS church is is nothing more than a straw man. I mean is that the view you have of heaven sitting on a cloud strumming a harp. I want to understand Mormonism by looking at it standard works to be able to see what its own Scripture says let me go to Mormon 77 it says this it says, and he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world referring to Jesus whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath he given onto him to dwell in the presence of God and his kingdom to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, onto the father and onto the sun and onto the Holy Ghost which are one God in a state of happiness which hath no end built to me it sounds like singing ceaseless praises with the choirs above is something we have looked to look forward to in heaven. According to at least the book of Mormon and how many times when ever I have a Mormon use that kind of the stereotype of what they think the Christian view is the reason why they probably don't like the idea of singing ceaseless praises to our Savior could be because they don't have the same relationship with the Savior that we do but Mr. Sherlock goes on to say. Likewise, while few Latter Day Saints would identify with caricatures of having their own planet. Most would agree that the all inspired by creation hints at our creative potential in the eternities. It's interesting he uses the word caricatures because I've read that same word in Mormon explanations trying to deny that Mormons get their own planet.
He goes on to explain himself and I want to wait until he finishes his explanation he rights it may be true as LDS bloggers and apologists have noted that quote. There is no Mormon doctrine that says we will become gods of our own planets." But this is merely a linguistic spin. Joseph Smith use the word kingdom and spoke explicitly of getting my own kingdom.
In recent decades the idea of getting one's own planet has been taught by many LDS leaders. For example, at the churches October 1968 Gen. conference then apostle, later Pres. Spencer W.
Kimball said, quote, we shall need all of the accumulated secular knowledge in order to create worlds and furnish them." In 1976, in an address to students at the LDS Institute at the University of Utah then Pres. Kimball said. Each one of you has within the realm of his possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as is king in God." In the teachings of Spencer W. Kimball we read we educate ourselves in the secular and spiritual fields so that we may one day create worlds people and govern them." 10 Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith talked about the human beings quote building worlds and peopling them." In another publication.
Smith wrote that quote we will become gods and have jurisdiction over them referring to the world's" Brigham Young second president spoke of faithful Mormons being quote prepared to frame morals like onto ours people them in the same manner as we have been brought forth" technically none of these and other passages uses the word planet the idea, however, is the same worlds's and kingdoms are equivalent to the general idea of a planet. We also note that in none of these passages is the concept of becoming like God mentioned the idea is much more expansive we will become gods in a bill.
I like what he does here.
He does as I mentioned yesterday what we like to do quote from the different leaders and I think he's made a good point here in just the two paragraphs to show how leaders have been talking about worlds first and kingdoms, and equating that to a general idea of what a planet would be. So why do Latter Day Saints get upset.
Why do they often times bring out that were not going to get a plan in the next life will I think you're absolutely correct a lot of the words that are used by LDS leaders are clearly synonyms for the word planet. But let me give you a quote by Orson F. Whitney worsen if Whitney was a Mormon apostle. You made a statement on June 9, 1895.
You can find this in collected discourses, volume 4, pages 336 to 337 now.
I might mention Orson if Whitney was the son of Helen Moore Kimball Helen Moore Kimball was the 14-year-old that Joseph Smith married right before he was killed in Carthage jail, but this is what Orson if Whitney says listen carefully to the wording Mormonism be it true or false holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp. He goes on to say, it teaches that the worlds on high the stars that glittering.
The blue vault of heaven are kingdoms of God that they were once Earth's like this that they have been redeemed and glorified by the same laws. The same principles that are applied to this planet and by which it will ascend to a perfected and glorified state. It teaches that these worlds are people with human beings. Are you catching what he same folks he saying that these planets, the stars that glittering the blue vault. The role people by human beings. He says God's sons and daughters, and that every husband and father may become an Adam and every wife and mother and Eve to some future planet. So here we find Orson if Whitney using the very word that a lot of Mormons are reluctant to use when speaking of this idea of inheriting worlds in the next life. He uses the word planet so obviously Orson if Whitney didn't see this being anything but a synonym to the words worlds Earth's and kingdoms in the conclusion on page 67. Sherlock writes I believe that the picture of God and humankind in the King Follett sermon and in the gospel topics essay is fundamentally flawed. If God is not a creator of first cause, and the rational arguments for the existence of God simply cannot be adopted by the LDS church.
For the most part, Mormons do not use these arguments if so then what arguments can they make for the existence of God. In reality the argument the Latter Day Saints fundamentally make is from personal experience quote I know the gospel is true because the spirit has confirmed its truthfulness to me." Of course, no Christian is going to deny the importance of the witness of the Holy Spirit for one's faith. But if that is the only grounds you have in the inroads of secularism and relativism will continue largely unchallenged. So keeping your family away from the critical questions about faith and morals is your only option because you have abandoned the rational arguments for the Christian faith and for moral truth that have been part of Christian faith for two millennia and that's interesting Bill because he used to be a latter-day St. until 2010 so he knows what he's talking about. From a personal experience. He goes on to say at the bottom of page 67. Moreover, if God is limited to being the God of this world is not the God who is all knowing, all good and all powerful and I think that's a very strong argument and it's one that Christians have been making for decades. When talking to their Latter Day Saints friends. We are not talking about the same God. If we are not talking about the same God, then it would be erroneous to draw the conclusion that Mormonism somehow represents Christianity in any way to let me ask you this question. Is this a book. The LDS gospel topics series we just covered the second chapter and Burnett continue to go through this book. Is this a book that many of our listeners might want to pick up. I certainly would recommend it. I think you have to have a basic understanding of some of the LDS teachings, but I still think it would be advantageous to have this if for nothing else.
The authors quote enough from the various essays to give you an idea of what the LDS church is trying to get across not only to its own members, but I would say even to the general public. And as I've mentioned earlier, I think the gospel topics essays, though not quite as transparent as I wish they could have been. They are certainly much more open and honest than they have been in the past. So I think they do give an individual a better understanding of where the church position lies even though, as we saw in this chapter. Chapter 2 were Mr. Sherlock certainly disagrees with their conclusions. At least they are explaining themselves in a more honest fashion.
In fact, this is what Mr. Sherlock says on page 68. It is also welcome that they do not deny the LDS belief that God was once a man on an earth like this one, they may not want to talk about it, but they do not deny it, and that is certainly what is true from this essay, becoming like God.
Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.
We hope you join us again as we look at another viewpoint is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also known as the Roman church is a huge topic of interest among many Bible believing Christians who want to reach their LDS friends and loved ones with the biblical message of hope and grace. If you're a Christian who wants to be better informed about the beliefs of the Mormon people Mormonism research ministry wants to be a resource for you since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has worked hard to clearly articulate Mormon doctrine and history in order to better understand the issues that separate Mormonism from the Christian faith, and MRM.org. You'll find links to hundreds of articles as well as dozens of videos that will effectively educate you on this fascinating topic. Should your church need a live presentation, simply contact MRM and schedule one of our several PowerPoint presentations that have helped thousands of Christians better understand the beliefs of their LDS neighbors to schedule MRM in your church right is MRM.org or call 801-572-2153 legged MRM help you become a confident ambassador for Christ