When These Things Begin to Happen

The Bible tells us of things to come to prepare us, not scare us.

and Dean Emeritus of Liberty University. We are carrying one of his recent books. Jan and Ed Hindson talk about the things to come today, a review of some prominent happenings predicted in the Bible.

Here is today's program. Matthew 24, 37, what did Jesus say? The days before my second coming will be as it was in the days of Noah when they were eating and drinking, indulging in life, marrying and giving in marriage, and knew not judgment was coming. Are we on the edge of the last days? Is the trumpet about to sound, the archangel about to shout? Seven flashing lights, prophetically, that I think need to get our attention more severely than ever before. Jesus is coming again. Now I want you to help me with the sermon. Turn to the people around you at your table.

Look them right in the face, whether you know them or not, and say, Jesus really is coming again. The clock is ticking. Then I want you to ask him a question.

Look right back at him and ask this question. Is he coming for you? And welcome to the program. And I want to echo a very hearty amen to what we just heard.

I have a very special guest today. As we are carrying a book that he and Dr. Tim LaHaye have co-edited, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy. It has about 40 contributors and it looks at almost 150 different topics, which is why this ministry is carrying it.

If you are a teacher or if you're just trying to learn about the things to come, as outlined in the Bible, I do highly recommend it. Dr. Ed Hindson spoke at my Understanding the Times conference in 2013. He is dean of the School of Divinity at Liberty University in Virginia. He hosts the King is Coming telecast, and he's the author or editor of about 40 books. It's an honor to have him today.

We'll give some contact information along the way as well. Ed Hindson, welcome back to the program. Thank you, Jan. It's always an honor to be with you and thrilled about how God has used you over all these years to get out the message of both the gospel and the prophetic warnings of the Bible. And the same goes for you, Ed. Let me start here with the actual interview that I kind of have in mind. And again, playing heavily off the book, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy.

But let me ask you first, Ed, just a casual comment and question here. In your lifetime, you and I are about the same generation. Have you ever seen such apocalyptic times? No, not at all. Now, many of us have said for years this is what is coming in the future.

Critics have always said, oh, you're overstating the case. That's not going to happen anytime soon. But my goodness, how much more chaotic could things be than they are right now? I think God is trying to get the attention of the whole world. Yes, this is a worldwide crisis with the coronavirus issue, the impact on the financial markets of the world and on the church, many churches not able to meet, some trying to meet online, some meeting anyhow in all of this.

I think God is saying, I am God and you all are not. And it's time for people to come face to face with what I'm asking of them. Otherwise, this world is on a collision course with disaster.

There are so many dilemmas. I think that once the church is gone and these dilemmas even spiral more out of control, which they will, people clearly are going to run into the arms of the Antichrist, he'll be the new savior. Well, we can look at what's going on right now as a precursor showing us in advance what happens when the bottom falls out of society.

Well, after the rapture, it'll be 100 times worse. Right now, millions of people have disappeared and the financial markets of the world are in chaos. And then all of a sudden you have society out of control. We have glimmers of that right now, but put that on a massive scale. People rioting everywhere. I see this as a time that the world is going to look to big government to step in and tell them what to do.

And when I look at the fact that a government can mandate a mask, it's a pretty simple step then to mandate a mark. That is correct. Now, you've got roughly 150 topics in this book that you're co-editor of, as well as the late Dr. Tim LaHaye, so many topics.

Obviously, I wish I could hit 150, I can't. Let me hit a few that jumped out at me because you do reference in this book and I'm really not leaving the comments you've just made. You reference the spirit of Antichrist. That's one of the signs we should be watching for, an Antichrist spirit.

It's actually, as you point out, it's been around since the first century. It's just intensifying. What's playing out is lawlessness.

I do frequently state, Ed, that I'm here at Ground Zero, Minneapolis. So we saw lawlessness the end of May. The scene down there is still like a war zone. I don't think you and I in our generation have seen this kind of lawlessness, at least not in the Western world.

No, not since the Vietnam anti-war demonstrations in the 70s. But this time you have this attitude, not just of I'm protesting something, but I'm going to strike back at society. I'm going to try to tear down everything this country represents and stands for. So you have this process that's going on right now of trying to demean the heroes of the past, tear down the monuments, rip up the society.

For what purpose? On a naive assumption, something better will come out of that. Well, I think those of us who understand the serious depravity of human nature realize something better is not going to come out of this. And ultimately, you have people who are literally under the control of Satan, trying to destroy everything that is the foundation of a nation, while it is not perfect, a nation that has done more for the cause of the gospel and world missions than any other country on the planet. Well, staying in the genre here of the Antichrist, and you do talk about that heavily, at least in one of the chapters of the book, you do feel, Ed Hindson, that it will be a European who rises to power over the Western world, correct?

I do. And I think that Daniel nine makes it clear that the leader that will come in the future comes from among the people that would destroy the temple. And that was the Romans. So I think that gives us a clear indication of a European leader, a Western leader who is attempting to bring control and stability to the world. After the rapture, when you look at what's going on today, national and international leaders are all trying to maintain control of their own countries, you can imagine what this would be like.

And if somebody stepped up that appeared to have the answer to the problems, I think the world would foolishly follow that person immediately. You're listening to Understanding the Times Radio, Jan Markell. And I have the privilege of having on the line from Virginia, Dr. Ed Hindson. He's Dean Emeritus of Liberty University in Virginia. He is co-editor of the popular book, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy. You find that in my online store, OliveTreeViews.org.

Give my office a call. You can learn more about Ed at TheKingIsComing.com. TheKingIsComing.com. You find out where that TV program airs. You can watch it at your convenience at HisChannel.com when you can listen to Understanding the Times Radio at HisChannel.com.

And I promise they won't censor us the way YouTube has been censoring in the last few weeks. I want to move on to some other topics while we have time here. Ed, I think another topic that intrigues me and probably my audience as well would be the false prophet that's the spokesperson for the Antichrist. Again, I'm taking this information out of the book. He's going to assume some religious leadership. He rises out of the earth. Revelation 13, 11.

Why is that even important? Well, I think the symbolism there has the Antichrist coming up out of the sea and the false prophet coming up out of the earth to assist the Antichrist and to encourage the world to follow the Antichrist and then eventually to take the mark of the beast. I think all of that shows us that what we would anticipate in the future after the rapture is a prominent Western leader will rise to power and a religious leader will at the same time step up and give his credibility and authority to that political leader. Now, in my mind, there's only one person that has that kind of worldwide influence, and that's the pope. No matter what someone's background is, if the raptures occurred at all, saved people have been raptured to heaven. Whoever's left, political leaders, religious leaders or whatever are lost. It shouldn't surprise us that somebody would fill that role and try to say in essence, hey, this can't possibly be the rapture, we're still here and come up with another explanation that the Bible calls the lie that they would believe we've seen in the media's adjustment of information right now, how much they can spin the truth and get you to believe a lie.

Well, that's true, even more serious than ever. Well, this false prophet, he's going to empower the image of the beast, promote the worship of the beast, and he performs signs and miracles. This is going to be a part of the satanic trinity.

This is quite a threesome. Satan, the Antichrist and the false prophet. Now, you have that very clearly in Revelation. The symbol of the devil is the dragon, the false prophet, and then the beast he's called in Revelation. Interestingly, Antichrist is a term only used in John's letters, but everybody identifies him with the beast in Revelation, with what Paul called the lawless one in his letters to the Thessalonians.

We would look for somebody that was anti-God, anti-religious, somebody who's in love with himself, who doesn't care about anybody else, self-absorbed, self-centered, wants to rule the world, and I think tries to convince the world I can bring peace and stability. And tragically, just as in ancient Israel, there were false prophets saying everything's going to be fine. There are no problems up ahead. And the prophet Jeremiah, a true prophet, had to say, no, they're telling you the wrong thing. And I would anticipate that as well. So in the meantime, if we see anti-Christian tendencies in society and false prophecies going on constantly, that ought to get our attention.

This wasn't the case 50 years ago like it is today. It's out of control and the world is out of control because they've lost their moral compass and their sense of real spiritual direction. Well, the false prophet, I like the way the book stated it. He runs the Church of Antichrist, as we've already talked about here in the first few minutes of the programing. The Church of Antichrist is ramping up. It's not going to happen until the church is gone.

We just see elements of that shaping up on a daily basis. And again, that spirit of lawlessness, that spirit of Antichrist that is raging around the world right now. You can hardly turn the television on folks these days without seeing the spirit of lawlessness and Antichrist absolutely everywhere. And one more point, Ed Hindson, and that is on this false prophet and the many duties that he's going to be performing. And he's going to be killing those who refuse to worship the beast. Then he's going to go after a church left behind. It's going to be an apostate church. They won't be saved people, but there will be a form of a church left behind. Not the true church that's taken to heaven. Will these people then get behind the false prophet?

Oh, I think absolutely. I think we've summarized that in the book, the spirit of Antichrist or mystery of iniquity is already at work, apostasy's progressed throughout church history, unfortunately, and a large segment of modern Christendom is already apostate. Unbelief is rampant in liberal churches. They're more concerned about social causes than they are about Jesus Christ and the gospel, and then after the rapture, if all true Christians are eliminated and gone and taken to heaven, then apostasy is going to rule the world at that point. And the false prophet then will lead apostate Christendom to accept the leadership of the Antichrist. And while those things may sound like something out of a fascinating novel, it also sounds like the news every night.

We are moving in that direction. And I think it's like a flashing light from God saying, what do I have to do to get your attention to realize this is where it's going unless you really repent and turn to me? One of the hundred and fifty or so topics that's covered in your book is end time apostasy.

And many don't even see that as sort of a last days warning. The references are legion, the deceitful spirits and the doctrine of demons and arise just staggering numbers as we head more and more into the last days. Second Timothy three then refers to in the last days, there'll be a form of godliness, OK? Well, that's going on in maybe 90 percent of our churches is a form of godliness.

Of course, there was apostasy in John's day in the early church and the wolves were just going to simply intensify. Anyway, I'm so glad you included that in the book. We give a nice description of that that's helpful to people. I think one of the great things about the book is people can look up to 150 topics in alphabetical order and find it if they don't know the biblical reference. They're in there when they find it alphabetically. And the number of contributors includes people like David Jeremiah and Mark Hitchcock, great scholars, Randall Price and Ron Rhodes and others. This is quality material, a great reference to have on your shelf for the rest of your life and even something worth leaving behind. If the rapture does occur, you'll pick it up.

Marie didn't realize that's what happened. Folks, you can find the book The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy in my online store, Olive Tree Views dot org. Olive Tree Views dot org.

Give my office a call central time and you can find it in my print newsletter, e-newsletters, various options. You have to get a hold of the book. You referenced David Jeremiah. I want to do a little transition here. And that is I want to talk to you for a few minutes about the millennium.

And I want to play that clip, come back and discuss it. What is the period of the millennium in biblical prophecy? Well, actually, the word millet means a thousand. So the millennium is a thousand years. And in the Book of Revelation, that is actually mentioned four or five times in one chapter. The millennium is a thousand year reign of peace and the Lord Jesus Christ will be king.

Surprising to a lot of folks. David will be his vice president, so to speak, and will sit on the throne with him and they will rule the world in righteousness and godliness. And there will still be sin in the millennium, but it will be short lived.

It will be dealt with immediately. When you read about the millennium and how lifetime will be extended and the lion will lay down with the lamb and all of the hostilities that have been a part of our world will be they'll be gone. The millennium is an incredible thing.

And you know what? Dwight Pentecost, one of my teachers, told me there is more information in the Bible on the millennium than any other period in all of scripture. It's all tucked away in the Old Testament prophets where you wouldn't necessarily go for it, but then you start to think about it. Every time you turn around, there's something in the Bible about that period of time.

Ed Hindson, I found that last statement to be extremely interesting. More information on the millennium than almost any other topic, mainly in the Old Testament. I had no idea the prophet Isaiah had a lot to say about that time when the king would come to literally reign in the future. He describes that time of longevity, of life, of peace, of even nature being at peace with itself, mankind.

It's like you go all the way back to Eden, to those qualities and characteristics that Adam and Eve were able to experience in the garden, all of that's restored in the millennium. So the Old Testament prophets were constantly looking forward to this kingdom coming in the future. Now, when Jesus came, he announced that the kingdom was certainly available to them because the king had come in his first coming.

But with his rejection, that literal kingdom did not come. In the meantime, Christian believers are citizens of a spiritual kingdom in which Jesus rules in our hearts, for sure. But we also look forward to this literal kingdom in the future.

Think of it. Every hospital will be a Christian hospital. Every school will be a Christian school because Christ will be here. The truth will prevail. Finally, all falsehood will be swept aside. It'll be not perfect. It's not heaven, but it'll be an ideal time of God restoring the earth to the promises that he has made to a literal kingdom on earth in the future. I want to talk about just a few bullet points that you referenced there, because human rebellion is still going to exist in the millennium, which I find intriguing. In other words, I think there will be sin in the millennium.

Am I right? Right. Because it's still a physical dimension. The only people there in glorified spiritual bodies will be the raptured saints who return with Christ to help reign and rule with him. He made that clear that they would sit on thrones. They would judge the nations of the world, et cetera, during that time. But the people who survive the tribulation period and go into the millennium are in natural bodies. As long as you have natural bodies, you're going to have the potential of pain and hurt and accidents and what all and sin. And the greatest tragedy about the whole millennial promise is in Revelation 20. It says after Jesus ruled for a thousand years.

And it says that six times in that one chapter indicating it's literal. There is a final rebellion when Satan is loosed again. It shows us that an ideal environment, as wonderful as it may be, does not convert the human soul. That apart from a real born again experience with Christ himself, human nature tends to be in rebellion against God. But this then would be the purpose of the millennium or one of the purposes.

Exactly. One of the purposes is to fulfill the promise of the prophets, to fulfill the Lord's commitment to Israel, to give them this ideal kingdom in the future. At the same time, it's the opportunity to show the world the necessity of the new birth experience and the power of the gospel, that apart from that transformation, mankind cannot rule himself and bring in anything of a permanent nature as good as the millennium is.

There's one thing I'd like you to clarify. Would the unbelievers who survive the tribulation then go into the millennium? Many people believe they will not. The unbelievers will be eliminated at the return of Christ as they're part of the force of the Antichrist, and that the only people going into the millennium will be saved people. You have to have some saved people going into the millennium in order to populate the millennium in fulfillment of those promises. To me, then, that eradicates the idea of a post-tribulational rapture, because if the rapture comes at the end of the tribulation and all the Christians are raptured out at that point, then there's no believers left to go into the millennium. But there are tribulation saints because they get saved during the tribulation. And when people read about tribulation saints in Revelation, they say, well, that's the Church. The Church obviously goes through the tribulation. So we need to clarify tribulation saints actually get saved during the tribulation.

Exactly. And you have that statement very clearly in Revelation, the seventh chapter, that talks about not only the 144,000 that are saved, but also a great host from all nations that nobody could number saved out of the Great Tribulation. That's Revelation 7 and verse 16. So there are going to be people saved out of the Great Tribulation. Those tribulation saints that live through the tribulation, I believe, go into the millennium.

As a matter of fact, the numbers are so large, they can't be counted. The number of those, then, that come to faith during the tribulation. Now, that indicates that there will be evangelism going on during that time and a host of people being converted during that time.

Host of people. Revelation says you can't even count them to be so many. Right now, with the crisis that's been going on, the coronavirus thing, there are a lot of people suddenly coming to faith in Christ who are realizing, I need to take this life and death question seriously. And I think some churches finally facing up to this, that they've been so busy trying to talk to people about how to enjoy their Christian life. They have not been evangelizing the unbelievers like they should. And just assuming that, well, maybe they'll come around eventually, all of a sudden some churches are now giving a stronger call than ever to come to Christ. Thousands of people are being saved right now.

God can use the worst of circumstances to bring about the best of results. Not quite through with the millennium yet. And I want to clarify, because some of my listeners are attending churches that embrace amillennialism, and I just want to clarify what that is. Amillennialists would argue that the millennium began with the resurrection of Jesus and will last until even the second coming. And during this time, deceased believers reign spiritually with Christ in heaven.

It's sort of an intermediate state. In other words, an amillennialist obviously doesn't take the words in revelation of the literal thousand years. They don't take it literally, which to me is very strange. Yeah, the early church did take it literally. But as time moved on and when they tried to then apply that to the church age instead of a future age and it got beyond the year 1000, then they began to realize that if we take it that way, then the thousand can't be literal.

So they just assumed it should be interpreted figuratively. But when you read the description of it in Revelation 20, it comes out of the 19th chapter where those that have been raptured that are with Christ at the marriage, the bride of Christ is in heaven at the marriage. So she has to go up to heaven to go to the judgment seat of Christ. That's clearly in heaven. She has to go up to heaven to go to the marriage.

That's clearly in heaven. So that has to take place before the church returns with Christ. And they're the body of believers that come out of heaven with the Lord in Revelation 1914. And then they're going to reign and rule with Christ. And then in Chapter 20, he adds, and those that were martyred during the time of tribulation will be resurrected to reign and rule with him as well. If Amillennialism were true, we'd have to ask, well, when are those people going to be resurrected then, and how are they going to reign and rule with Christ if they're already dead, but they have not yet been resurrected? So the whole connection of the rapture where the living are caught up and the return where not only do the raptured saints go up to heaven, but those that have died in Christ go up. So the living are raptured, the dead are raised, and the body of believers returns with Christ in his triumphal return to reign and rule on earth. I think if you read the sequence of events in Revelation 19 and 20, that becomes pretty clear to try to then say, no, the whole church age is a millennium. Well, then what sense is it an era of peace and of Jesus ruling the world, etc.? We don't see the clear evidence of that at all. If anything, the Christian influence is starting to diminish in our world.

We're losing ground and not gaining ground. Going to continue my discussion with Dr. Ed Hindson on the other side of my time out here. And here's where I want to head when I get back. Just what would be the new heavens and the new earth? And why on earth do we need a new heaven? Well, the Bible talks about it rather extensively, this new heaven and new earth. We'll talk about some other things as well. I want to reference another book that Dr. Hindson has co-authored titled Can We Still Believe in the Rapture?

My goodness, I never thought we'd come to the day where we would have to ask, can we still believe in the rapture? Well, we'll do that when I get back in just a minute or two. Don't go away. We love friendly feedback. Contact us through our website, Olive Tree Views dot o r g. That's Olive Tree Views dot org. You can call us central time at seven, six, three, five, five, nine, forty four, forty four at seven, six, three, five, five, nine, four, four, four. We get our mail when you write to Olive Tree Ministries and Jan Markell, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, five, five, three, one one, that's box one, four, five, two, Maple Grove, Minnesota, five, five, three, one, one, all gifts are tax deductible in an age of fake news and false teaching.

Thank you for trusting. Understanding the Times radio. We are carrying an exciting new product here at Olive Tree Ministries that is author Jeff Kinley's newest book, Aftershocks Christians Entering a New Era of Global Crisis. Living in this era of pandemics, economic chaos, natural disasters and political strife, you may feel tempted to question whether God is in control, yet when you look to the Bible, you'll find these events actually signal that his promises will soon be fulfilled. In the book, you will read how global trends foreshadow the nearness of the very end of days. Find it in our online store at Olive Tree Views dot o r g. That's Olive Tree Views dot org or give our office a call.

Central time at seven, six, three, five, five, nine, four, four, four, four, at seven, six, three, five, five, nine, forty four, forty four. You will also find it offered in our print magazine and newsletter. Stay up to date and in tune with our times with the many products this ministry offers to help you understand the times. The whole emphasis of the New Testament is anticipating the coming of Christ and the unique relationship that he will have then with his bride, the church. I have too high a view of Jesus, too high a view of the bride and too high a view of the gospel to think that he's going to leave us all behind to be under his own wrath and judgment. Thank you for your support of this radio outreach now in its 20th year and heard an almost 900 radio stations. Why are so many churches pushing back against the glorious news that the king is coming as our world deteriorates daily? This may be the best news there is, yet it has vanished from many pulpits. Jan Markell continues with our special guest for the hour.

Dr. Ed Hindson. The question we mere mortals ask is what happens at the end of one thousand years? Well, the one thousand years is what I like to call the front porch of eternity. It's a phase one of God's eternal kingdom. After Christ has ruled and rained on this earth for a thousand years and fulfilled all of God's promises for this earth, God is going to destroy this present heaven and earth and he's going to make a new heaven and a new earth. God spoke it all into existence. He's going to speak it all out of existence.

Again, it staggers us to think of that. But God's going to make a new heaven and a new earth, a new universe. And then it tells us the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem, which I take it as the abode of God right now. It's it's where God exists is going to come down out of heaven from God and sit on this new earth. So that heavenly city, the New Jerusalem will come down and sit on the new earth and serve as kind of like the metropolis or the capital city for all of God's new creation and we will inhabit this new earth, the new heavens that God has created, that heavenly city that will be the abode of God's people for all of eternity.

So can you imagine the abode of God's people will be the new heavens and the new earth God's going to do away with the old? I find that to be incredible. We'll talk about that here in the next few minutes. Remember, we're extremely active on social media. Join us for discussions on Facebook.

Find us on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, his channel. And of course, we're so thankful. Never want to minimize our 900 radio stations that carry this program and have carried it now for almost 20 years, understanding the Times.

Radio is so grateful for all of those faithful radio stations. We're moving ahead here. And I have as my guest for the hour, Dr. Ed Hindson, Dean Emeritus, Liberty University in Virginia, author or editor of about 40 books. He was one of my speakers at Understanding the Times, 2013. Dr. Ed Hindson, just as an aside here, not in my notes at all whatsoever.

Didn't plan on asking you this. You really think things might make a sharp turn for the better in 2021? Or do you think things are going to be kind of wobbly simply going forward here, perhaps for the remaining time that the Church has left?

That's a good observation, Jan. I would tend to think things are going to be kind of wobbly. I think on the one hand, people are pent up and they're going to feel like, OK, if the virus is under control and the economy kicks back in, they're going to want to rush back into everything.

But they've been out of sequence now for so long that I think you're going to see a lot of readjustment going on, a lot of confusion moving forward. The tragedy and what we see in the news over and over and over is not just that all these crazy things are happening, but it is a clear indication of the lack of spiritual focus in the American public. Right now, people are angry, they're confused, they're frustrated. I don't see very many people calling on God. I don't see very many people showing forgiveness or understanding for those that disagree with them. We are in a time of political correctness that wants to eliminate anything and everything I disagree with until you've eliminated everything, including yourself, after a while.

So I think it's going to be wobbly. I think it's God's way of showing to us that mankind cannot bring this planet into a millennial condition or a heavenly condition by itself. Only God can make that happen. Do you think that the destruction that's happened to the church and of course, the church is trying to carry on here in spite of enormous obstacles in some states, particularly California, there's a threat of arrest of pastors, et cetera, and other churches can't sing. Some places you can't even have communion. I mean, this is terrible things that have gone on to the church, which God says the gates of hell not going to come against. It's taken a terrible blow.

Do you think it can recover? Well, I think the church will always recover in the sense that you're right. Jesus said, I'll build my church.

That's continuous sense in the original language. I'll keep on building it and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. You don't attack with gates. You defend with gates. So I think he sees the church on the aggressive with the gospel.

Satan's on the defensive, trying to hold on to his kingdom with his gates. But in the meantime, there's certainly this attitude of government intervention, the excuse of, well, we're trying to take care of the health of people. Well, what if they decide it's the mental health of people? What if they decide that what you're doing is mentally disturbing everybody and therefore we should have a right to intervene?

Now, Americans might say, oh, that can't happen happens in China all the time. And in fact, right now, persecution against believers in China has suddenly ramped up to a higher level than it has in the last 20 years for those very reasons. I think all of this, again, is a precursor of this is what to expect in the future. In the meantime, preach the gospel, bring the message of Jesus and his love to the world. But at the same time, don't be naive and blind to the fact that the world is running headlong in the wrong direction. We're carrying a book that Dr. Ed Hindson is co-editor of. The other is the late Dr. Tim LaHaye, the popular book, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy, over 150 topics from about 40 experts on the topic of eschatology, so many topics covered.

I can't even hit more than three or four of them in the time that we have. And I indicated in the previous segment, I wanted to talk just a bit about the new heavens and the new earth. Folks, it's something we're all going to experience.

Sure, it's in the future, but nonetheless will be there eventually. Second Peter three talks about this new heavens and the new earth. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in which the heavens will pass away with great noise and the elements will melt with fervent heat, both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up, therefore, since all these things will be dissolved. What manner of persons are you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of the Lord because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Nevertheless, we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

OK, Ed Hindson, this is an intriguing concept. The New Jerusalem or the heavenly city apparently will be located in the new heavens and the new earth. Is this then I think I picked up according to the book where the streets of gold will actually be?

I think so. Exactly. There are those who say, well, you guys who believe in the rapture are abandoning the planet. No, we're not. We actually believe we're coming back to rule for a thousand years in the millennium on the planet. But we also understand that eventually the planet, like the physical universe, is dissolving and that God has to bring to pass that which is eternal. The reference to new heavens and new earth is interesting for people because they think, well, heaven is where God dwells, why does he need to make it new? But if you look through the scripture, heaven seems to be described in a threefold manner. There is the heaven that is the abode of God, the eternal place of God.

Then there's the atmosphere around the planet and then there's outer space itself. I think that's why Paul referred to the fact that he was caught up into the third heaven, that we have an atmospheric heaven that's going to be dissolved. A planetary heaven of what looks like outer space to us. And then the third heaven that doesn't need to be remade, the dwelling place of God. And the point I think that Mark was making is that that place where God dwells is going to come and touch between the heavenly atmosphere of the new heaven and the new earth, it's like the portal in which we go back and forth.

That's the house that Jesus called my father's house, that my desire is to take you there. And then in eternity, the father's house touches heaven and earth. That ultimate reality tells the believer all of that is available to you forever and ever and ever. I have a new book coming out called Future Glory, and it deals with seven things that God has for everybody's future if they're a believer. Seven things that are yet coming in the future. The rapture, the trip to the father's house, the judgment seat of Christ, where we receive our rewards, the marriage of the lamb, the triumphal return, the millennial kingdom, ultimately then the New Jerusalem. There's so much in the Bible that reminds us we have more living ahead of us than we do behind us.

Very well put. And finally, in this new heavens and this new earth, then there's no curse of sin whatsoever. Unlike the millennium, things go haywire in the millennium, but they do not go haywire in the new heavens and the new earth.

Right. That's the passage that then says very clearly in Revelation 21. There's no more sin. There's no more darkness.

There's no more disappointment there. Everybody that's there who is saved is in what theologians like to call a final, fixed moral state. You are in a glorified state in which you can no longer sin. So there's not going to be any jealousy there.

Nobody's going to be trying to take advantage of anybody else or get in front of the line or all the rest of that. Think of what that would be like a perfect world that God promises is really coming in the future. So this is then the true eternal state would be the new heavens and the new earth. Amen. We move on here while we still have time to just a couple of other topics that I do want to hit.

And I referenced a few minutes ago the fact that we carry another one of your books, I believe it's co-authored with Mark Hitchcock. Can We Still Believe in the Rapture? Let me just ask you this, Ed Hindson. And by the way, if you'd like to connect with Ed, do so through the website, thekingiscoming.com, thekingiscoming.com, catch that television program that he features with that title.

You can catch it on his channel if you don't happen to have the DirecTV and other things that many would need to see that. Did you ever think that we would have to sit here and actually be discussing bluntly the title of your book, Can We Still Believe in the Rapture? Obviously, you and I and Mark Hitchcock and a lot of others still believe in a rapture. Having said that, many in the church do not believe in a rapture. Now, the tragedy of that is that there has to be a rapture. What they are really saying is they don't believe in a pre-tribulational rapture, but when they don't, then they kind of tip their hand when they say, well, there's never going to be a rapture. Well, there has to be a time when the dead are raised and the living are caught up or First Thessalonians 4 is not true. There has to be a rapture. You have to either put it before the tribulation, during the tribulation, after the tribulation, before the millennium, after the millennium, or at the end of time, at least, there has to be a time the dead are raised and the living are caught up. That's clearly stated in First Thessalonians 4. The whole idea then of trying to make fun of or demeaning the rapture is to demean a biblical doctrine. Now, I realized a lot of my education was in Reformed seminaries and universities and institutions of various kinds that were either amillennial or postmillennial.

I've heard every argument on every side. It's never unseated me from a strong belief in premillennialism in a pre-tribulational rapture. Amillennialists were correct that we are already in the time of the millennium and the blessing of Christ, that Satan is already bound by the power of the cross. Then why does Peter say that the devil wonders about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour? Why does Paul say he's the prince of the power of the air, who now, present tense, works in the hearts of unbelievers, etc.? Satan is clearly alive and well on planet Earth.

If you don't believe that, turn on the news every night and you'll see a clear demonstration of that going on all over the planet. Tragically, Satan is still very much unbound at this time. During the future literal millennium, he will be literally bound in the abyss, can't get out, cannot deceive the nations.

Well, the nations are still in deception. Satan is still active. So that tells me very clearly we are not in the millennium as it is described in the Book of Revelation. But then he releases Satan at the end of that millennium, which to me is a little bit of a mystery, Ed. Yeah, it's a big shock. As you read the Book of Revelation, that's the big surprise.

Suddenly he lets him out. And I think that's the test the hearts of those that have been born during the millennium from parents and natural bodies to show you really trust Jesus as your Savior. Or are you just going along with the millennial system out of convenience? That the final test is to test the hearts of people before everybody goes into eternity, either in the new heaven and the new earth and the new Jerusalem or into the lake of fire. So before God makes that final judgment, every heart is tested so that nobody can say, I didn't have a chance to follow the Lord and know the truth. God will give them that opportunity during the millennium. And during that time, if they choose to rebel, unfortunately, it's like the whole sad history of the human race. Where so many times since Adam and Eve and Cain, we have made the wrong decisions and gone in the wrong direction.

Thank you for that clarification. Folks, if you join me late, you are listening to Understanding the Times Radio. I'm Jan Markell. I have on the line from Liberty University, Dr. Ed Hindson, Dean Emeritus of Liberty University. You can learn more at TheKingIsComing.com. We carry one of his many books, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy, The Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy.

Over one hundred and fifty topics from the world's foremost experts, some forty experts weighing in to this wonderful book put out by Harvest House. And Ed and I were talking about the rapture. And folks, believe it or not, there are multiple raptures in the Bible. At the moment of the rapture, the living are caught up. Now, the term comes from the Latin, rapio or a bere.

In most English translations, it's translated, caught away, snatched away, caught up. And sometimes you'll hear people say, well, this idea is only in 1 Thessalonians 4. You're building a whole doctrine out of that one chapter.

No, you're not. There are several raptures in the Bible. Enoch in the Book of Genesis walked with God.

And what happened? He was gone. I don't know if his clothes went with him or not.

He's gone, alive. Elijah is caught up alive in the chariot of fire and the mantle fell off. But he was raptured away. Philip, the evangelist, after he baptizes the Ethiopian eunuch, the text in the Book of Acts says, and the Spirit of God, Harpazo, caught him up a temporary rapture and dropped him down at a different location. The apostle Paul uses the term harpazo of himself. When Paul says, I was caught up into the third heaven, Harpazo raptured away. Even the ascension of Christ is referred to as a rapture in Revelation, in the 12th chapter, where you have the passage about the woman who gives birth to the male child, and obviously the male child is the symbol of Christ in the passage, and the child was eventually caught up, Harpazo, unto the Father in heaven. And then you have the rapture of the two witnesses in Revelation 11.

Two guys are preaching the Gospel. Presumably two born again Jewish preachers are testifying of faith in Christ, I think during the time of the tribulation, and the Antichrist, the beast, orders their execution and they are killed and their dead bodies are left lying in the street in Jerusalem for three and a half days, while all the world watches and sends presents to each other and celebrates their death. I remember way back in the 1950s hearing a preacher comment on that passage and say, I don't know how the whole world could watch somebody lying dead in a street in a certain location in three and a half days, but maybe it's got something to do with television, whatever.

Pretty good guess. I'd like to be watching CNN on that day because the Bible says the spirit of life enters into them. God resurrects them and raptures them up to heaven. The thing that jumps out at me, and even particularly in that little clip, is you're talking there about the two witnesses, how they're going to be preaching the Gospel very effectively, incredibly effectively, is how much hated, at least during the tribulation, and we're beginning to see a little foreshadowing of that now, during the tribulation, how hated anyone with the truth of the Gospel is going to be.

That's, again, the tragic revelation of the heart of depravity, of the unsaved human nature. Instead of saying, God is gracious, God is good, God is loving, but it's not for me, that's not what they're saying. They hate God. They hate the Gospel. They hate anything that has to do with any of that because they're trapped in darkness by Satan himself. And then what concerns me is when you have people who are believers who act like they hate the rapture. Wait a minute.

You're going in a very wrong direction there. If you don't think its timing is the same as we do, then at least be concerned that I have to be looking for the coming of Christ. And in some sense, the scripture says to all those that love his appearing, he will come with crowns of reward. The whole emphasis of the New Testament is anticipating the coming of Christ and the unique relationship that he will have then with his bride, the church.

I have too high a view of Jesus, too high a view of the bride, and too high a view of the Gospel to think that he's going to leave us all behind to be under his own wrath and judgment during the time of tribulation. It's not just a time of trouble and difficulty, but of divine wrath. We can always suffer the wrath of man, the wrath of Satan, or even in nature sometimes the wrath of the planet, but not the wrath of Christ.

Yes, I'm glad that you clarify that, and I do as well. We have the wrath of man and the wrath of Satan going on on an hourly basis here on this planet. That won't be the case someday. There will be during the tribulation. Then there will be the wrath of God, which is almost unspeakable.

Play one more clip. It happens to be yourself again, Ed, and we'll come back and kind of wrap things up. There has to be a time when the dead are raised and the living are caught up. Now, no matter what our eschatology is, we all have a responsibility to use our confidence in the Lord's return to encourage people not only to be prepared to meet the Lord when he comes. But in the meantime, we have a responsibility of spreading the gospel to the world of cultural engagement and of social responsibility. Just because I believe Jesus is coming someday, I think it could be any day, doesn't mean I don't try to do something to make a difference in the world in which I live. It has often been observed that those who are the most heavenly minded have generally done the most earthly good. It does not behoove us to say, well, the Lord's coming, so therefore I'm not going to take my responsibility to engage the culture with the power of the gospel. Now, we of all people need to be committed to accomplishing that to the glory of God.

Appreciated the sentiment behind that comment. There's a saying that you use frequently that many of us in the eschatological community have borrowed, if I can be so bold, and that is Bible prophecy. The various passages in the Bible about the last days is not written to scare us, but to prepare us. And I think we need to go out of the program here focusing on that.

It's all yours. Exactly. There are a lot of things in the Bible that sound very, very scary in the future, but they're only scary for unbelievers. For the believer, all of prophecy is good news. Jesus is coming. The time of the marriage of the Lamb is coming. The rapture to heaven is coming. The return to Earth is coming, reigning with Christ in the millennium, living with him in the New Jerusalem for all eternity, the scripture gives us one positive after another, after another. But the issue is, do I really know him as my personal savior?

And am I trusting him to receive all of those things? Too many times in religion, people have the attitude of, well, I'm doing the best I can, I'm trying to work my way to God, et cetera. Well, the Bible says clearly God has worked his way to us in the person of Jesus Christ. God incarnate came to Earth to take our sin upon himself, to die for that sin, to die in our place.

Jesus loved us, died for us, gave himself for us. That's the core message of the gospel, that Jesus paid it all, all to him we owe. Say I want to conclude today's programming with some comments on the importance of understanding Bible prophecy.

But as times grow darker and they will, a knowledge of things to come is required. You cannot understand the times without knowing what the Bible says about eschatology and your church might not teach it. Well, then I encourage you to get some books and videos and study it for yourself or find truth telling ministries that focus on this topic. In the Old Testament, there are over 1800 references to the return of Christ of the 260 chapters in the New Testament. There are more than 300 references to the Lord's return, one out of every 30 verses. Twenty three of the twenty seven New Testament books give prominence to this subject. And now listen to this for every prophecy in scripture concerning the first coming of Christ. There are eight on Christ's second coming. So I'm closing today's program with 10 quick reasons why this subject is so important and my thanks here to both Nathan Jones and Todd Hampson for discussing the issue on prophecy perspectives. I'm shortening their summary of these 10 bullet points. By the way, what are some of these topics that are future oriented, the rapture, the tribulation, the glorious millennium that we're going to be spending one thousand years here on a perfect government on earth, the beam of see Israel's role in the end times, etc.

So here goes 10 reasons. This is important. Number one, it shows God speaks the truth. Since a whopping 30 percent of the Bible is God letting us know how future events will unfold before they actually happen, it shows he is the one in charge and he exists outside of time, he knows everything. And whatever God says, you can take it as truth. Number two, it proves the Bible is God's word. The fact is that the Bible is the only holy book ever created that contains genuine fulfilled prophecies. Fulfilled Bible prophecy proves the Bible is truly God's word.

And so we can place our faith and trust in its author. Number three, it shows God is in control. He is sovereign.

Sovereign means that God is ultimately in control of every single detail. Bible prophecy puts that fact on display like nothing else can. Number four, eschatology or Bible prophecy demonstrates God's love. He has a plan for our lives.

No other faith outlines this in detail. We are not just floating around on a big spinning orb out in some outer space location with no purpose and no meaning. Many believe that, by the way, God has crafted a purpose for every person he has made because he loves his children. God has planned a destination for the faithful. Number five, it describes God's plan. God provides many specific details about his plan for the ages. This plan shows how God is working to bring humanity back into a right relationship with him and how we shall dwell in a blessed time of peace, righteousness and fellowship with our creator. That's what Bible prophecy tells us.

It can be very specific and very purposeful because God explains how his plan will unfold through future Bible prophecy. Number six, eschatology demonstrates God's might. The fact that Jesus Christ is going to return one day as promised in might and power to victoriously defeat Satan and his minions and set up his kingdom should make you stand up and shout hallelujah. Indeed, Almighty God alone is worthy of our praise and worship and eschatology or Bible prophecy shows us why. Number seven, prophecy proves God is worthy. Well, he alone is worthy of us living our lives, trying to please him through obedience and acts of love. Even though God is far greater than we are, he still has a use for us and that is to serve in fellowship with him.

Why should we? Because he alone is worthy of our obedience and praise and eschatology points us to that fact. And number eight, eschatology promises evil will be punished. You know, bad people commit bad things, often without ever facing punishment for their crimes. And yet Bible prophecy promises that swift justice is coming. The evil in this world does have an end to it.

I hope that is as good news to you as it is to me. Number nine, eschatology prepares us to get right with him. But by God's grace and through his love, our Heavenly Father lets us know ahead of time exactly what he is going to do. We know exactly what judgments are coming as well, exactly what blessings and restoration are coming. He grants us the time to prepare and get right with him so that it's point number nine.

And moving on to point number 10, it does give us hope. The Lord wants us to understand how the future will play out. Sure, there are valleys in life we must traverse and there are terrifying times like the tribulation, which are hard to even comprehend and which the church escapes. But prophecy is meant to give us hope that this evil age will end. Jesus will return as promised to rapture his church before the tribulation begins. He will defeat evil. He will institute his thousand year kingdom of peace and righteousness and justice.

We gain hope knowing that the Christians final destination is to dwell in peace with our creator forever in the eternal state. God is perfect. His promises are true. The Bible prophecy assures us that God knows what he is doing with our lives.

And in this soon passing world, we can have a sure hope in that fact. So won't you look ahead and trust him? Won't you look around and serve him? Won't you look back and thank him, but always look up and expect him. He is coming soon, sooner rather than later. I want to thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you again next week. Jesus.

Yes, we are in apocalyptic times, just as the Bible said the last days would be for the believer, our glorious future is but a heartbeat away. If this radio outreach has been an encouragement in your life, let us hear from you, write us through our website, olive tree views dot org. That's olive tree views dot org. We get our mail when you write to olive tree ministries and Jan Markell box fourteen fifty two, Maple Grove, Minnesota, five five three one one, that's box one four five to Maple Grove, Minnesota, five five three one one, you can call us central time at seven six three five five nine four four four four. Seven six three five five nine forty four forty four. All gifts are tax deductible until next week. Know that God cares for you, that he holds the world in his hands and that everything is falling into place.