Twice Adopted!

Hello, this is Will Hardy with ManTalk Radio. We are all about breaking down the walls of race and denomination. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few minutes.

Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening to the Truth Podcast Network. And how do you, as a believer, confront... When someone has that answer that they're seeking, it's fantastic. Is it fantastic if the answer is the wrong answer?

It's not wrong to the person. Well, so which one of these is right? Two plus two equals four or two plus two equals five? My truth says two plus two equals four. Okay, my truth.

Wow. Okay, Wayne, thanks for your call. And that's what we would obviously... You can join the conversation by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's toll free, 866-34-TRUTH. Or listen on the internet at truthtalklive.com. And now, here he is, a missionary disguised as a radio talk show host.

Here's your host, Stu Emerson. Truth Talk Live! The Christian talk radio revolution continues. Welcome to Truth Talk Live, where we comfort the afflicted, we afflict the comfortable, and sometimes we make a lot of people mad in the process.

And guess what? I guess if you don't get mad about something, if you don't get worked up or exercised about something, maybe you don't believe in something. So on this show, we try to get folks to know why they believe, what they believe, and we try to get people actually to be able to defend what they believe. And of course, we point in one direction for that, and we talk about a very powerful book that's changed my whole life, the Bible.

We talk about pop culture, we talk about current events, and we talk about theology. And today, we're going to talk to a man who many of you are very familiar with. You're very familiar with his father, who is a great president of our great nation, Ronald Reagan. He is Michael Reagan. He is a nationally syndicated talk show host, a guy who a little guy like me really looks up to in that area. He's an author. He is a well-sought-after speaker all over the country in the world. He is Michael Reagan. Michael, great to have you with us, sir, on Truth Talk Live! Boy, all that stuff and all that and more, huh? Now you've got a lot to live up to.

I don't know how you do it. You already have the Reagan name. You've got the right Reagan to talk to.

Well, you already have the Reagan name to live up to. And then I'm telling people out there, hey, I've got Ronald Reagan's son on the show today, and they're like, oh, yuck, oh man, I don't want to hear that guy. But you know what's interesting is people talk about me as being Ronald Reagan's son. Before I was Ronald Reagan's son, I was Jane Wyman's son. You know, it's really an issue when your parents are famous, your dad's famous, people forget you have a mother. And before, Ronald Reagan was famous.

I mean, he was the King of the Bee movie actors. But my mother was phenomenal. My mother's won the Academy Awards. She was doing all this stuff.

She was nominated five times. So when I went through school, when I was younger, up until the 1960s, I was Jane Wyman's kid. And then when my dad got into politics and became governor of the state, I became Ronald Reagan's kid and people forgot I had a mother. And that's something. Well, it's true. I mean, that truly is the human psyche.

It's really interesting. During the years my dad was president, I would say to people who would ask me, where are you going to spend Thanksgiving? And I would say, well, I'm going to go visit my wife's family in Nebraska. One hundred percent of the people would say, why?

Why would you have Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner with your wife's family when you could eat with the president of the United States of America? Wow. I mean, one hundred percent of the people. That's something. Not 95, 100 percent.

I mean, that's the mentality of the human race. Yeah, that is something. So you had, what was it like for you, making that shift, being known as the son of a mom and then the son of the dad in your life? Well, the difference was with dad came cameras. OK, I got you. With dad came cameras.

Sure, technology and everything. Someone as governor, but when he became president, then you had cameras, you had Secret Service protection. You really felt during the eight years of my father's administration that it would have been better to be held captive by a foreign entity than being held captive by Secret Service agents 24 hours a day, because you're never allowed to do anything you want to do. And that's something. Everything is, there's no spur of the moment. You can't wake up one morning and say to your wife, it is a gorgeous day. How about we go down to our boat in the marina? Because the Secret Service said, well, we need 48 hours notice if you want to go to your boat in the marina. So you give them 48 hours notice and then you go down to do maybe a little evening cocktail cruise with your wife, a romantic evening in the marina. And you get down there, you find the harbor patrol tied up to your stern. You find a frogman underneath your boat, making sure nobody's attached a bomb to the bottom of it.

And then as you're trying to take this romantic cocktail cruise around the harbor, you've got a bunch of Secret Service agents in a harbor boat, 20 foot off your stern, following you wherever you go. We finally sold the boat. Unreal. How long does this go on for? How long? Eight years. Wow. Eight years. But isn't there a detail even afterward? Oh no, no. As soon as the, unless your name is Clinton, and then you get extra Secret Service agents for a period of time.

But no, the detail actually ends the day your dad leaves office in Washington, D.C. unless he approves you for a longer period of time. We actually had the Secret Service signed off Thanksgiving of 1988 because I wanted to see what Thanksgiving would be like without them. No kidding. I wanted to eat turkey instead of be around them. Did you make it? Did you survive?

Did you live? Nearly. I guess you're here. Hey, listen, let me just throw the number out there, folks. If you want to talk to Michael Reagan, son of Ronald Reagan, and a powerful, this guy is pro-life through and through. You heard from him during the big stem cell debacle thing. It's still going on.

It's still going on. If you want to call and join the conversation, good luck getting in because you've got two talk show hosts going head-to-head, toe-to-toe, and good luck getting in word-wise. But the number is 866-34-TRUTH.

Toll-free, 866-34-TRUTH is our toll-free number nationwide on Truth Talk Life. Michael Reagan, you are pro-life. How did you get in that fight? Talk to us about that journey. Well, I mean, that wasn't a tough journey to be pro-life. I mean, I was adopted.

I asked this question every time I go out and speak. I asked on my radio show on occasions. I want to know how many adoptees are in the audience. And then I asked the question, how many of you would have rather been adopted, rather been aborted? So far, 100% of the adoptees I've talked to have not wanted to be aborted. I mean, weren't we the closest to it?

Weren't we not the closest to it? And so, you know, am I pro-life? I'm pro-life because I'm alive. Because my birth mother chose to give me a life and give me a chance at life.

If she would have chosen the other, you and I wouldn't be having these conversations. And the only Reagan child you'd be talking to would be liberal and pro-choice. Sure.

Wow. And you bear so much credibility in this fight because you are adopted. And so you can talk about that. And you also have this incredible heritage, you know, from your father and that now is a reality in your life of being pro-life. Well, my father was, you know, very much pro-life. He wrote a book in the 1980s while he was president of the United States, having a deal with life, the only president to actually author a book during his administration. So he was very much pro-life, as my mother was pro-life, as my birth mother, as my birth father were pro-life. I have a book out called Twice Adopted, which talks about the first adoption, my second adoption into God's family and all the things I went through in life. I went through some horrendous things in my life.

I mean, absolutely horrendous things. But I came out the other end of it, wrote a book about it, and it's on my website at reagan.com. Okay.

Sean Hannity did the forward for it, my pastor Jack Hafer did another forward for it. It's also available at amazon.com. But it's a life book, it's not a political book. Yeah, that's strong. And I tell you what, you know, that's just the title of your book. If people out there will just listen to the title of your book, there's a powerful message just in that, isn't there? Oh yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think that's the way God wanted to be, and that's the way it is. Because you get a lot of people who do ask you, like, what do you mean by the Twice Adopted?

What do you mean? And then you get to explain what you meant by Twice Adopted. So it's a good conversation opener, if you will, and closer at the same time. And it's, as I said, a life book. I mean, if anybody in your audience has ever been born out of wedlock, given birth out of wedlock, anybody in your audience ever been raised in a single-parent home, gone through divorce, their parents went through divorce, and you as a child were made to feel guilty, somehow you had something to do with it? I write about it in the book, that in fact, what divorce is, divorce is when two people walk into the child's room, break everything that's important to the child, throw it into pieces, walk out of the room, expect the child to put it back together.

And so I talk about those issues. So if you've gone through divorce, or you're a child of divorce, and you're having issues with it, the book's for you. If you've been molested as a child by a day camp counselor, whoever it might be, the book's for you. If indeed you've been in a child pornography, the book's for you.

So it's a life book. Okay, let me ask you this question. We're following this discussion with you up, you're going to be on with us a little bit longer, with someone who has gone to China twice to adopt, and this is a big thing now.

Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, but talk about how important adoption is, and not just what that means to you, but the people out there that are contemplating it, especially in terms of how hard it is to adopt it, and the solution to abortion that we don't hear about a lot. When you talk about adoption, Bruce Willis, you know, somebody asked me one day, what's the biggest mistake George Bush made? I said, appointing Bruce Willis to head up the adoption council of his administration.

It's laughable, laughable at best. I have a niece from Uganda, Rita. It is easier to adopt a child in Uganda, in China, in Russia, in the Philippines, or you name God knows where.

It's easier to adopt a person there, to adopt a child in the United States of America, because all the political correctness that has taken over the adoption in the United States of America. It is absolute unconscionable. We'll find out why we'll ask him the toughest pro-abortion argument ever leveled at him when we come back with Michael Reagan. Okay, we're back on Truth Talk Live. I'm your host, Stu Epperson. Our special guest is Michael Reagan, who is the author of Twice Adopted.

He is a nationally syndicated talk show host, son of Ronald Reagan, has a powerful testimony, and we're not going to be able to hear the whole thing today, but we'll have him back on again. Michael Reagan, just before going off the air, we talked about how people are able to adopt in all these foreign countries pretty easily, yet in America. Why can't someone go and adopt a kid? Well, I'll tell you, you can't adopt a kid in the United States of America if you're bisexual or gay.

Oh, wow. You certainly can walk right in the door and get any child you want, but God forbid you should be heterosexual, be a regular family, want to adopt a child. Political correctness has taken over the adoptions in the United States of America.

It's unfortunate. And you talk to anybody who's tried to adopt a child in the United States, they have to go through hell. It's easier to get on a plane and fly to a foreign country, adopt a child from there, than adopt a child in the United States of America. You don't see the media do any stories on the children here looking for adoption, but you hear all kinds of stories in the media about the children in foreign countries who want to be adopted or need to be adopted. We fly, we fill up planes, we go over there, we do that, and we fly right past hundreds of thousands of children in this country who certainly need to be adopted. So I blame the media, and I blame the president, and I blame political correctness for what they have done or not done, which leave children languishing in foster homes and adoption agencies just looking for families. It's time. It's time to change the process. And if we don't, it's not going to get, it's truly not going to get better for these kids.

We have two parties that say they care about children. They're both lying to you. Wow.

Okay. 86634 Truth is Number. If you have a quick question for Michael Reagan, we've got to let him go here in a second.

He's got to go prepare for his nationally syndicated talk show, which is coming out in a little bit. But 86634 Truth is the toll-free number nationwide. Okay, so tell us, as someone who was adopted, what difference did it make that a man by the name of Ronald Reagan came along and adopted you? What difference did that make in your life? Oh, yeah. Well, you see, you want to hear it made a great difference because I had a great name, and I did.

Absolutely did. But then I was teased, you know, of not being a true Reagan. My son was teased, by the way, in 1980s, and not being the true grandson of Ronald Reagan.

So as much as there's a good side to it with a good name, there's also the downside, because people, kids tease, and you have to try and live through, you know, through all of that process, if you will. The other thing is that, you know, in those days when I was growing up in Beverly Hills, we didn't spend time with our parents. We only went to boarding school. I went to boarding school when I was six years old.

I entered boarding school, and I finally got out of boarding school, and I graduated from high school, and I was 19. So the relationships weren't there, but today what happens is we put kids in daycare centers, which are today's boarding schools. We got other people raising our kids.

We have other people raising our kids. It wasn't until I finally came to terms with God, or God came to terms with me, or we came to terms with each other, that I finally was able to build a relationship with my father and my mother, but that happened after 1985, when I became a Christian, because up until then, I used to blame them for everything that happened in my life. Yeah, you know, I was reading through a systematic theology book last night, and there was a whole chapter on adoption. I thought about you. I thought, wow, why don't we trumpet this message, this message, this powerful message of spiritual adoption in Christ more in the Church today, from our pulpits?

Why don't we, Michael Reagan? Well, you know, there's a whole lot of things going on in church, or there's a whole lot of things not going on in church. They need to be dealing with today. They don't deal very much with child abuse. They don't deal much with pedophilia.

They don't deal much with women who have been raped. Things that they go through, the fear is that they don't want anybody to think it's happening in their church. They want to believe their church is perfect, and your church is the one that's bad. We have great outreach programs to the inner city, because we think every inner city kid in America needs the church's help. But we forget to have in-reach into our own churches, into our own children.

And if you really want to stop abortion, you really need that in-reach into your own church, into the lives, because, you know, the laws are there to make abortion legal. But what we have to do as parents is, what can I do as a parent to know that, to let my daughter know that I love her above everything else? As Christ so loved the Church, I love my children.

I know they're going to make mistakes, but it doesn't mean I don't love them. How many of our own daughters do we chase away to abortion clinics, because our daughters are fearful of coming home and facing their mom and their dad, who for years have said, if you ever get yourself pregnant, don't you come home to my house, don't you walk in here, don't you embarrass me? How many parents say that? And the daughters hear it.

What happens? They go and they get an abortion because it's easier for them to get an abortion than it is to face their mom and their dads. Moms and dads have to love their children, as Christ so loved them. God sent his only son to die for us.

It isn't about time as parents. We put ourselves on that cross for our own children. But that's where the spiritual adoption concept, this idea that a holy, righteous God took me and Michael Reagan, both despicable sinners, and he made us— Well, I think you were a bigger one than me. Well, you know, I knew that would come up. And he made us his kids.

Michael Reagan, he made us King's kids. Isn't that the story of the Gospel? Yeah. I mean, how else can a guy like you— So often we only live it on Sunday.

That's right. I mean, how else can a guy like you, abused, under the spotlight, under pressure, maybe depressed, all kinds of issues, how else can a guy like you who, you know, deal with anything without this powerful—and that's why I love the title Twice Adopted, this supernatural experience where God the Father made Michael Reagan his son? I mean, that certainly was the answer in my life, but it took a spiritual woman, a Christian woman coming into my life, and praying for me a whole lot each and every day, and making sure I got to the right building.

So often we find ourselves, find it easy, wallowing in our own self-pity, and we need to get off the floor and truly, you know, move forward. Move forward is what we need to do. And quit trying to think the government's going to solve our problems. Boy, I want the government to change the laws on abortion. Government, if it changes the law on abortion at the Supreme Court level, go back to the state level.

They're not going to change at the Supreme Court level because they very rarely overturn themselves. So then it comes down to what are we saying about Katrina and New Orleans? Who should be the first responders, the federal government or us? So it comes down to us.

What am I going to do with my own life in my own house? And where's the family of God? Let's bring Jimmy on the line. Jimmy, quickly, you're on with Michael Reagan. You got ten seconds for a question.

Hey, guys, not a question. I was just going to say that we were blessed enough, my wife and I, this year to have a son through adoption. I understand what you're saying, and going through the government is a hassle, but we went through a private agency.

It was all North Carolina-based adoptive families and North Carolina-based birth mothers. It was a super smooth process. It took just under a year, and there are ways out there to do it. So there are ways to do it. Michael Reagan, I guess it works out sometimes. No, I mean, there are ways to do it. He found a way to do it, but most people will tell you the horror stories. There's a great place in Lubbock, Texas that I work with and other places.

There are places that do that, but they are few and far between. Well, Michael Reagan, the key to winning the pro-life debate. What's the key to it? Where's the battle being fought? In our own homes.

In our own homes, not at the federal level. The battle is inside my home and your home and everybody else's home. Wow. Hey, you're a blessing. Thanks so much for joining us today. Thank you. Hey, try to keep that other Ronald Reagan son under control, will you?

I tell you, my dad wasn't able to control him. Hey, give us your website. People can check you out and listen to your radio show. They can go to reagan.com. We now webcast my book, Twice Adopted, available there.

Also amazon.com. All right, he's Michael Reagan. Thank you, sir, so much for being on with us. What a blessing. We got a real-life adoption story next in China. Keep it right here. Truth Talk Live's Stu Everson here. Wow. That guy, I tell you what, what a powerful message, what a powerful testimony. I tell you, folks, this guy's got a big platform, a national platform. We didn't get into stem cell. I wanted to get into that.

We'll have him back on for that. But he's got a powerful message, a powerful story, and I encourage everyone to get his book, Twice Adopted. Read it and pass it on to some folks.

And let me just emphasize this. We've done a lot of shows lately on this talk show on the gospel, the power of the gospel. And think about Michael Reagan as the adopted son of Ronald Reagan.

Think about all that he got, all the attributes, all of the name, and everything that came with being a Reagan was passed down to this then young man as a son. And that's exactly what happens when you are rescued from darkness and made a son of God. God adopts you into his family, and he absolutely, you know, translates you, transfers you from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light, the kingdom of his own dear son. And it's beautifully stated in Romans chapter 8. Read that. It's a great chapter in the Bible on adoption, which talks about how we are joint heirs with Christ, and we can actually go to our fathers, our heavenly father, even our heavenly daddy.

The word abba in the Greek, actually, is the word daddy. It's a powerful statement. This guy's got a message, and I hope you heard in his message of the gospel. We can't emphasize that enough, because there's a message of hope for you out there. If you've been abused—if you haven't been abused, if you've been a righteous, you know, do-gooder all your life, you desperately need to be adopted by God and his family. The only other alternative is to be empty and to be, you know, to be hopeless and to have no true spiritual father the rest of your life.

So, given those two alternatives, which one do you choose? How about that? Wow.

Powerful. That's the whole point of the cross, to make that adoption possible. We've got a special guest on our show right now, and I'm going to go to him. He has gone through this adoption process. His name is Dwayne Gollion. This guy has been a friend of mine for some time.

He's got that Kentucky accent, but he's always been excited about adopting. Dwayne, are you there? Yes, sir. Good to be with you, Steve. Yes, sir.

Good to have you. You're actually connected on a cell phone, because you've been helping the folks in Mississippi out a little bit. What's going on down there? Are they getting some help? Are they getting some water in?

Yeah, I've seen lots of water. We're sitting down here in Long Beach near Gulfport, and we've been able to work through some local churches down here to help out some of their elderly, you know, work, do cleanup work. So we've really been blessed as much as anybody. Okay, so while people all over the country are talking about how to help the victims, you actually drove down there with your crowd to help them. And while people all over the country are talking about how they're pro-life, you actually have gone about doing something to adopt a couple kids. Tell us, what in the world are you and your wife doing adopting kids in China? How'd you get to that point? So give us the story.

Well, we've been married about three years. We heard about the situation in China. They're only allowed to have one child, and they don't want their girls. They want to have a son, and I can get into why that is. So they abandon these little girls. If they're not aborted or murdered after they're born, they abandon these little girls.

The ones that love them is what we're going to tell our girls. Their mom loved them enough to put them somewhere where somebody could find them. Which sounds crazy, but our oldest daughter was left at a vegetable marketplace, and we've been there twice.

We visited the first time, and we went back again on our second trip to adopt. And our youngest daughter, Sarah Hope, she was left at the gate of a civil affairs office. So both of these girls were left in high profile areas where the mother knew where they would be found. But part of the problem, they have a political situation where they're only allowed to have the one child, and then they have the social pressure and the economic pressure. The husband, they may want a son, and if they don't get their son, they'll leave the lady and the wife and the little girl to fend for themselves in a situation where she would not be able to work, to make enough just to feed her and her daughter. So it's really a situation that's hard to fathom.

We really cannot understand. So what's the alternative? Those little girls you adopted, what happens to them if you don't take them up, if you don't come over and adopt them? 80 percent of them die by age one.

They don't live past age one. How? 80 percent. It's because of poor facilities, lack of staffing.

No one really cares. There are so many children, and you can't judge all the workers at the orphanages. I mean, some of them probably just would give anything for these kids, but they have such limited resources, and they can't hold every child.

So a lot of these kids, they need that physical contact, they need the nourishment, the food, and they just don't have it. And so there are over 900 social welfare institutes in China, and there are only about 90, if my statistics are still correct, that have a program where the girls can be adopted. And then it's just a very limited number compared to how many girls there are over there. So there are, you know, over 800 orphanages in China where these kids are never adopted. And the Chinese, it's a cultural thing. They don't adopt unless they know the bloodline. They were just, you know, I mean, that's a problem probably anywhere in the world. You know, in America, the situation, if you have an adoption, you'd like for it to be somebody else in the family, correct? You know? So over there, it's just unheard of to adopt if you don't know the genetics. And so that's starting to change gradually with some education that, you know, you guys really need to start taking care of these kids and helping out here too. But so far, that's why there's such a problem with it.

So how did you find all this stuff out of China? So people have no clue about that. We heard just the story about how the little girls were abandoned. And they're just out there pretty much left there to die.

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, they'll either, if no one finds them, if it's not in a public place, you know, most of these mothers probably are hoping that they will be found, taken to an orphanage and hopefully be adopted, you know? But percentages are so small, I don't know what percentage that would be, but I would say less than one percent are adopted.

Okay, now, folks, listen closely. This man and his wife went over and adopted two kids in China, two daughters. And if you have a question about that, you can call us at 866-343-4truth.

We'll put you right on the phone with Dwayne Gollion, 866-343-4truth. I want to hear your adoption story. Maybe you have a horror story, maybe like an earlier caller, you adopted in America.

It worked out well. Dwayne Gollion, why didn't you adopt in America? Why not take a lot of underprivileged kids that need parents here? Well, why didn't you go through those steps here?

That's a great question. We actually considered doing the foster care program, started taking these parenting classes that they offer, and it'd probably been up to my wife. We'd have finished the classes, but I just didn't make it make it through there, and I just decided that for our family, I'd rather adopt internationally through China.

But I will verify, you know, what Michael Reagan was saying there. It is a huge need in the United States. There are 500,000 kids in the foster care program. Not all those are available for adoption. There are 120,000 that need to be adopted that are able to be placed. A lot of these are older kids, and most of these families that want to adopt, they want a baby, you know. So it's a huge need, and 18, 19,000 a year, probably 19,000 a year, age out of this program. And so these kids are coming out of these foster homes, you know, no parents, and they go to graduation from high school, and they don't have a family, you know, they get married, they don't have a family. And then they either go to prison or getting a gang, and then they do have a family, right?

The statistics are very similar here as other countries around the world to these kids. They don't make it. And folks, let me just tell you something. Here in America, most people that want to adopt, you're going to hear some ugly criteria. Ugly. What they want.

And it's not ugly, it's just what they want. They want the baby, that's just exactly right, right? Typical.

A little baby boy, who's a little white boy, right? Sure. That's about it. So what does that tell you?

I don't think we're any better than the Chinese in that, but you know, someone call me and prove me wrong. 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Alan. Alan, you're on Truth Talk Live with Stu and our guest Dwayne Gollion, who's adopted two kids out of China. Alan, you're on the air.

Hi. I've heard that it takes a long time to adopt from China. What's the reason for that, and about how long does it take you? Okay, how long does it take? It takes about six months to get your paperwork finished and completed here in the United States, and once you finish that, the paperwork is called a dossier. The dossier is sent to China, and right now it's about six or seven months wait. So you could potentially adopt from China in about 12 months.

Our first adoption, it took us 11 months just because we took our time. Why does it take so long? Why can't you just go over these kids? I mean, that's enough time for a kid to get thrown out to the street and die.

Well, you're right. There's a lot of red tape. The immigration here in the United States, they actually make you be fingerprinted.

Well, like in North Carolina, we go to Charlotte. You know, each state has the different place where you'd have to go be fingerprinted, processed through the FBI computer, and you have to receive a letter from the, it used to be the INS, and I'm not sure what the government agency's called now, but maybe it was the BCIS. But anyway, you have to wait for all this permission, and then once you receive all your permission and complete all your paperwork here in the United States, then the Chinese government processes you through the CCAA. It's called the Chinese Center of Adoption Affairs, and that right now is taking about six to seven months. We just went to an airport Friday night to welcome home a family, and this was their second adoption, and it took them close to 12 months.

Alan, does that answer your question? Yeah, and if you could just rough estimate what it costs to go to China for adoption. Okay, the first thing I'll let people know, one of the things people need to be aware of is the tax credit that the IRS gives you is $10,800 right now, unless you make over $155,000 a year, which that didn't affect us. So whenever you look at the cost, you got to consider that you're going to have to front money, but you won't have to pay federal taxes for quite a while.

So it's about $18,000. Let me just throw that out there. Okay, anyone out there been adopted? We want to talk to you. Anyone want to go through this process?

What's it like going to China? How are those girls doing right now now that they've been adopted for some time? More with Dwayne Gullion, more on adoption on Truth Talk Live coming up next.

Truth Talk Live's two efforts in here. We're talking about adoption. We've talked to Michael Reagan, and now we're talking to a man who's gone over to China and adopted, and it costs quite a bit of money, Dwayne Gullion, but you do get a tax break on it, right?

Yes, and they're working, lobbying to get that increase to $15,000. So I mean, in my mind, that gives everyone no excuse to adopt for financial reasons. I think the biggest commitment is from your family. Are you willing to take this child into your home?

And when people say, how much does it cost? I mean, to me, are you willing to pay the price as far as another child in your home? And are you willing to give your life to raise this kid? Sadly, the childbearing or even child adopting, having kids and making that commitment to them, to raise them in the Lord is sadly almost an unpopular thing in the culture today.

Big families are an unpopular thing, but maybe there's a lot to be said for that. And let's go to another call. Let's go to Brian, a caller on the line who I believe has actually adopted and or is going through the steps. Brian, where are you on this thing?

And let us know your journey. OK, well, we're adopting a child out of Belarus, which used to be part of Russia. They're their own country right now.

And, you know, a lot of people probably are aware of this, but they have actually shut. We were in the process and the president shut adoption down and won't let any orphans leave their country right now. But they do let them visit six weeks at a time right now for the American Middle Russian Relief Organization. So we're really going to have to start the process over what's going to happen. But, you know, in regard to, you know, adopting, you know, from America, from from around the world or whatnot, our decision was to, of course, adopt in America and both internationally. And that's our way of reaching out to the world as well.

But one thing that we have found out about what made our decision to adopt out of Belarus first was just, well, the Lord put this little girl in our life through another couple after we had prayed about it. Well, when they're 16, they just get turned to the street there. There's no opportunity for education, vocation or anything like that. Government assistance once they once they leave. A lot of those children end up on the street committing suicide. Girls are brought up in the prostitution. Yeah, it's a really big problem.

They have a very extremely high suicide rate there because of that. So is it similar? Is it similar process to China, Brian? Yes, it's a similar process, except what we have to go through the Ministry of Education with the country of Belarus. Okay. And there's really, you don't have to go through an agency for Belarus, but when it comes down to money and all that, you're probably looking at about the same thing. What do you say to them?

Oh, I think it's great. Belarus, Ukraine, Guatemala, all these countries, these children, they have no future. You know, they don't have a number, identification number they need to get into a college. So it is, it's a crime.

It's either death or prostitution or that's rough. Let's go to Jerry. Jerry, you're on Truth Talk Live with Stu. Okay, we lost Jerry. Let's see, is Jerry here?

Jerry, you there? Hello? Hello. Hey, you're on Truth Talk Live. Hey.

Hey, welcome to the show. Go ahead with your question or comment on adoption. I'm a foster mom and I just had to call in and say, I am just so heartbroken about all these people going overseas to adopt when there are thousands of children right here under our nose. We're going to let you and our guests square off after this break.

Keep it right here. A foster mom's on the line. Hi, this is Hope Epperson. You're listening to Truth Talk Live with my daddy, Stu Epperson. Okay, we're back and we have, it's heating up.

Of course, toward the end of the show, we're running out of time. Duane Gollien has gone to China, adopted two precious little girls. And Duane, give us the website for these adoption agencies. Real quick, will you? That so people that are interested in finding out more about this can, then we're going to go right to a foster mom who's wondering why you didn't do it here.

Quickly, give us those websites. Well, Steven Curtis Chapman, he's adopted $3 from China, but he advocates adoption from any country and even here domestically. His website that he has now is stevencurtischapman.com.

Okay. And then he also has a new website, How to Adopt. I'm pretty sure this is correct, howtoadopt.com. What about the agency you went to? We used Living Hope, livinghopeadoption.org, livinghopeadoption.org.

But Steven Curtis Chapman, they also have a foundation that issues grants, and it doesn't matter what country they're from, if they're domestic or whatever. Okay, now we got a foster mom on the line who's fired up. Okay, what do you say to her, Duane? She's on the line right now. She's saying, there's kids here that need parents. What do you say to her, Duane? Well, I would just defend what we did by saying that that's where we felt like God wanted us to go. But other than that, she's right.

I mean, it is sad. So I'll just have to be quiet and let her make her point. You're not getting an argument, ma'am, from him on what you said.

He's agreeing with you. What do you want to say to everyone out there about how important it is to kind of look at the need here in America? If anybody with internet access will go to adoptuscids.com, that lists every child in the United States that's up for adoption.

Wow, okay. And age range, you can go through foster care. It's a 10-week course. And he had said that he had sort of dropped out of the foster care program.

It's a 10-week course, three hours a week. And anybody can do it. You do have to go through paperwork. But I'm sorry, but that is bogus. If you can't, we have a responsibility to take care of the children right here in the United States. And I'm not saying that those other children aren't needy.

God bless them. And God bless this gentleman and others who have adopted him. Okay.

Well, I think he's agreeing with you. And I appreciate your call. And as I told you off the air, we need a bunch more foster moms just like you.

What an encouragement. Wow. Thanks so much for calling in.

Thank you. We're going to wrap it up. Let's go to Tony. Tony, you're our last caller on the show today. You're on with Dwayne Gullion, who's been to China, adopted two precious little girls.

Go ahead, Tony. Okay. I'm a foster parent since Friday, two Fridays ago.

All right. I received my first child, and it's foster adoption. So, I mean, it's here in the United States, and she's a precious child. She was born in Mexico, but she was found here.

And, you know, I encourage people, if you can foster, adopt here locally. Jesus says, first, you know, you'll be where? In Jerusalem.

In Jerusalem. Right here. Okay, Tony.

We're out of time. Thanks for calling in. Dwayne Gullion, what would you say to people thinking about adopting? How important is it? How's it changed your life quickly in 20 seconds? How's it changed your life? It's been the most wonderful thing.

And I would like to back up what both of those last two callers said. I think if you can contact local agencies or your local social services, take the MAP classes, you know, go through the process of becoming a foster parent. There's a huge need for good Christian families to do that. Okay. And our life has been changed. If you want to see our website, adoptedfromchina.com versus my family, adoptedfromchina.com. Okay, we gotta go.

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