The Approaching Darkness

Is a great darkness about to sweep the land? Must the church head underground soon? Here is today's program. Is a great darkness about to sweep the land? Must the church head underground soon? Here is today's program. On conservative Christians, remove them from public office and re-educate Trump voters. Another headline.

I have several here. This is Todd Starnes. The conservative purge won't stop with big tech. A great darkness sweeps across the world, and particularly right now America.

Another story here about baseball great Curt Schilling. It says AIG cancels his insurance over his conservative beliefs. Another headline, without freedom of speech, what's going to happen to America? Another one, Silicon Valley escalates its reign of terror against patriotic and Christian Americans. Joseph Farah writes over on WorldNetDaily, he says, the left is moving at warp speed to bring a scorched earth to conservatives and Christians. He goes on to say the left is moving at warp speed in their destructiveness. They've forgotten all about the deaths of COVID victims in the battle to bring scorched earth to conservatives and Christians. Tucker Carlson recently warned that the Capitol Hill protests will be used to strip Americans of their rights. Another headline I just saw, actually this morning, big tech censors are coming next for pro-lifers.

Frankly, I saw a lot more headlines than that, but we'll stop there. Those are the ones that I thought I'd refer to that set the stage for this hour of discussion. I have you in studio with me and we'll talk about it in a three-way discussion. Pastor Mark Henry, and you've heard him on this program before, and he is pastor of a church here in northwest suburbs of Minneapolis, revived church. Pastor Mark Henry, welcome back to the studio. Jan, it's good to be with you again.

Thanks for having me. And all the way from sunny but chilly California, where I'd like to be right now, is Pastor Tom Hughes, 412 Church in San Jacinto, part of the Calvary Chapel stream. Pastor Tom Hughes, welcome back to the program. Thank you, Jan. Great to be here with both of you.

Mark Henry, you sent me a couple of emails here in recent days. I'm playing off them, quite frankly. You said to me in one of these emails, we are being set up for a crystal night in German as Kristallnacht, part of the Holocaust. We are being set up for a Kristallnacht situation here in America against Christians.

I've been saying it's coming for months. And then you conclude, we must learn from the persecuted church and from the Jews who have suffered. Are you ready to be an underground church? We need to explain what Kristallnacht was back in 1938.

If you want to do that, fine. Yeah. Antisemitism was increasing in Germany. Quite honestly, in 1933, for example, there would be German stormtroopers outside of Jewish households or shops.

And I saw a picture of one just recently. I said, Germans attention, this shop is owned by Jews. Jews damaged the German economy and pay their German employees starvation wages. The main owner of this shop is Nathan Schmidt.

That's his name. And so they're standing out there with these signs. And that was in 1933.

Well, this continues to build an increase. November 9th and 10th of 1938, the plan unfolded. There was a diplomat who was killed and they blamed it on a young Jewish man. And they said, this is our opportunity. And they told the police to stand down, back off. Quite honestly, the Hitler Youth were unleashed.

In fact, I actually read an article just the other day by one of those youth. And they said, well, they were brought in, they were told to wear civilian clothes and to go to different shops. They targeted those shops.

7,000 businesses were destroyed. 30,000 Jews were arrested. 91 plus Jews were killed. And after that, that's when we see the pictures of the Jews wearing the little sign. The application you're making is obvious that this could be coming to Christians in the coming months, years. We have a new administration, not friendly to Christianity.

Is that your application? What I was trying to say is the summer, as we were watching riots and so forth, and the police are told to stand down and watch. And then there was a shift in Germany.

They were told to stand down and watch. Then the government was weaponized against the Jews. These 30,000 Jews end up being carried off. And then before it's all done, millions of Jews end up dying in concentration camps. History repeats itself.

We can look back in history and we can learn what people have done and anticipate what people are going to do. And we're seeing this pattern, I think, from this summer to now. And as we look into the days ahead, we're going to see this weaponizing of different elements of government against those who believe in Jesus, who believe in biblical morality.

Tom Hughes, you're in California. You've got some real issues out there. And I mean, as it concerns government clamp down on people on the right and Christians. How are you coping personally? I have to stay focused. And I tell our church, we have to stay focused on the message in the person of Jesus Christ, because everything else is so discouraged.

We were told, like Joshua was, don't turn to the left or turn to the right. There's so many distractions on both sides of the aisle that we must stay focused on Christ. I have a friend up in San Jose. He's in the heart of the Silicon Valley. He's a Calvary Chapel pastor up there. And he has over one and a half million dollars in fines against the church.

Plus they've now fined him personally and they're threatening him jail time. Whatever it takes to bring him down, that method is going to be used against every other church in California. I'm firmly convinced California and New York are going to be used as the models for the direction of what needs to be done with the rest of the nation. And I wholeheartedly agree with Mark. What has been done in the past is repeating itself.

We can see what's been done. And I look at things, they're alarming. And when I also think of the Jews, and Mark and I have had many discussions about Nazi time. When you think of what happened with the Jews, there are many warnings.

Only the ones who listened fled. And that went on for several years. And then finally the clampdown just came. We've been hearing these warnings. It began before last summer. We were watching them when Trump was first elected. We could start hearing these things. I mean, we can go back to Obama's reign actually. It's been happening. And now we read the articles and the Bible tells us the direction that's going and the narrative coming from the other side matches exactly what the Bible tells us it's going to look like in the last days.

I want to go to something that was released. I'm not quite sure when it's a 28 page document. And it's a group backed by congressional Democrats touting, quote, a secular America. And they call themselves secular Democrats of America. It's been presented to the Biden administration advising them to strip First Amendment rights from Christians who advocate traditional biblical positions on sanctity of life, marriage, education, family, etc.

Just a couple more words here about the organization. The document was presented by Representatives Raskin, Huffman, California, Tom, and McNerney, California, states that an incoming Biden administration must, quote, educate the American public, particularly those identified as the, quote, religious right, on the need to keep their religious dogma to themselves. The document calls for a purge of social conservatives from all levels of government labeling them, here we go again, white nationalists and conspiracy theorists. And the document states the constant entanglement of religion and government promoted by the religious right and intensified by the Trump administration sweeps far beyond hot button culture war issues like abortion, etc. It permeates every aspect of government policy, healthcare, public and private education, foreign policy, etc. labeling traditional Christian views, again, this endless term, white supremacist. I've got a comment here from Trevor Loudon. My audience knows Trevor. He's a filmmaker specializing in the Communist Revolutionary movements throughout history. Loudon described the document in an interview stating that an advisory to what they hope is going to be President Biden and Vice President Harris's basically is to clamp down on religious liberty in this country.

Let's play a short clip that's going to go into detail briefly and come back and talk about it. Many Americans celebrate President Trump as the most significant champion for religious freedom in a lifetime. His actions made Christians feel secure and now secularists, humanists and others feel empowered to unravel Trump era protections.

It all goes back to the May 2017 executive order by President Trump. That day in the Rose Garden, the President used his pen to ensure Christians and other people of faith aren't required to check their beliefs when entering the halls of government and prevented the federal government from going after pastors who speak about political issues from a moral perspective. We will not allow people of faith to be targeted, bullied or silenced anymore. Now that order tops a long list of Trump administration actions that secular Democrats of America want President-elect Biden to erase. Represented by the Congressional Freethought Caucus, the group paints Christians as extremists and urges the incoming administration to marginalize people of faith, relegating them to the back pew of the public square.

Part of their to-do list? Ensure humanist and non-theist chaplains serve in each branch of the military, refrain from using the national motto in God We Trust and reframe patriotism by avoiding phrases like God in Country. In order for them to advance this new democratic party agenda, which is leftist, which is Marxist at its core, they have to eliminate a vibrant Christian orthodox faith in America.

It stands in their way. Secular Democrats will also push the incoming administration to amend the Religious Freedom Restoration Act beginning with the Do No Harm Act introduced by then Senator Kamala Harris last year. That act would gut the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

It would make it inapplicable to cases that involve sexual orientation and gender identity as well as abortion. These attempts to marginalize believers come as the media and even elected officials increasingly push the narrative that people of faith are unfit. Unfortunately, we see that senators are increasingly treating religious beliefs with great suspicion and even hostility. Demonstrated Gao says in the confirmation hearings of Justice Amy Coney Barrett as some senators treated her Catholic faith as a disqualifying characteristic. The dogma lives loudly within you and that's of concern. Because religious liberty is the fundamental 101 rule in American life, we don't have religious tests.

This committee isn't in the business of deciding whether the dogma lives too loudly within someone. Nothing could be more dangerous for the future of America than to separate America from a vibrant, God-fearing faith of its people that will ensure the tranquility and peace and justice that America so desperately needs. And Perkins suggests conservatives take a page from the other side's playbook.

That means using every legal option available to make efforts to roll back religious freedoms as slow and painful as possible. You're listening to Understanding the Times Radio, Jan Markell. Here I have in studio Pastor Mark Henry. He is a pastor of Revive Church, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, formerly Brooklyn Park Evangelical Free Church only.

The name has changed and from California, Pastor Tom Hughes, 412 Church in San Jacinto, California, very near Los Angeles area. Mark Henry, you've read the 28 pages that we just played that clip from. It's frightening what's contained in this document. What's even more frightening is the Biden administration is going to love the effort here to install the secular Democrats of America to anoint them and to implement this 28 pages.

Absolutely. Again, I just read it this morning. I was taken back as to the intentionality and very specific weaponizing of different departments of the government to ensure that Christians are suppressed, that the worldview that we have, that there's a God, he's holy, that he created all things, that we're accountable to him, that there really is a heaven and hell, there is an end to all this. And it's very intentional. Department of Justice is weaponized in it. Homeland Security is weaponized in it. Education Department is weaponized in it.

Very intentional and I think they're going to totally embrace all 28 pages. And how do you think they'll implement it? Clearly they're going to clamp down, but how do you see that manifesting? We got to spell it out here because we're springing this on some folks. They've never heard of it.

The clip they've just heard for the first time, this is a whole new concept. We have secular Democrats of America. They've written this 28 pages, given it to Biden administration. It's going to be implemented. Are we going into hiding?

This is the way it's going to unfold. Number one, President Biden will appoint individuals who believe this doctrine that Christians should be silenced, oppressed, put on the back shelf, that Christianity and that your beliefs, your conscience before God has no special place. In fact, it even talks about going after churches and churches having this special place. We're going to remove that. They even use that sort of language. And then the implementation of laws, but also the removal of certain laws.

In fact, at the end of the document, there's a long list and it lists out different things that have been put into place in law in the United States. And then it says, this one needs to be removed. This one needs to be attacked in this way.

And they actually have it all broken up, very logical, very intentional. I mean, it is systematic removing Christian faith, Christian voice, Christian worldview in our society. Wow.

Tom Hughes, you weigh into this, please. It is alarming. We've seen it coming, but there are many people who've never heard this before. We've been saying the Bible prophecy for a long time. You just don't see America in the last days, in the tribulation period as being a great superpower.

I know I've had the conversations with both you and Mark at various times. People have wondered, teachers have, what's going to be the end of America? Is it going to be a war with China? Is it going to be the rapture? Is it going to be economic collapse? I believe we are witnessing it.

I am so troubled. I believe we've entered judgment. I believe that we've been turned over. I look at our society, Romans chapter one, God tells us I will give them over to the depraved mind. That's part of God's judgment.

We've been given over. You look at what is going on in America. Judgment begins at the house of God.

And I look at what's happening. You can see every branch being weaponized, just as Mark said. I believe it's going to start with some of the more well-known Christians, some of the wealthier business people, supporters of Christian values that have been public. And I believe they're going to start going after them. I don't know when Christians are going to have to go into hiding. I hope that the rapture comes first, but we really need to be prepared because they're telling us exactly what they're going to do. And they've already labeled you. If you are a genuine believer in the Bible, you follow Jesus Christ, then you're going to fall into that category of a white supremacist, a white national. If you're black, you're going to be an Uncle Tom. They know exactly what they're going to do.

We need to be well prepared for what's coming. You can learn more about Pastor Tom Hughes at his website, HopeForOurTimes.com. HopeForOurTimes.com. You can reach Pastor Mark Henry at his website, ReviveBrooklynPark.org.

ReviveBrooklynPark.org. How does the average listener handle the information we've just presented in 20 minutes? 20 rather, to some people, terrifying minutes.

It's hard to process. It's dark. We've had an overdose of dark for nearly a year, starting last March. When I returned from ministering in Southern California, end of January, life was rather normal. Two or three days later, it became very abnormal.

And a month and a half later, it went into overdrive, abnormal. And it's been dark since, I would say, March of 2020. The average listener is struggling big time with some of the things we've just shared. I mean, we've got to be salt light, delay the decay, occupy till he comes, all of that. They know that. Still, you've got to process what we're saying. As a pastor, we pray for our listeners. All of you listeners right now, I want you to know Jan loves you. She's concerned about your soul. We're worried about you because many people are saying to us, Jan, you get this all the time.

I get it every day. I'm losing my mind. I can't even process this. And so if you can hear my voice, I want to encourage you to go back to the book of Habakkuk because Habakkuk lived in days where there was internal corruption in the nation and external crisis on the outside. He's processing the craziness of his day.

And in Habakkuk chapter three, he cries out to God and he says, God, what are you going to do? The world's coming apart. There's injustice. There's wickedness. It abounds.

Everything's perverted. And then God responds in chapter one, verse five, and he says, you won't believe what I'm going to do. Just stand and watch. And then he tells him that he's going to raise up the Babylonians. They're going to come in and his judgment will be against the nation of Judah. And he's like, he couldn't believe it. He was shocked.

He was shocked. And the question is, what does he do? In chapter two, it says he goes up. He's going to be in the tower.

He's going to watch. He's going to see what God has. And then he purposes in his heart. In chapter three, verse 16, you need to read it. You need to underline those verses. He says, though there won't be any food and fig trees won't blossom, and then there won't be any cattle. He says these words in verse 18, yet I will exalt in the Lord. I will rejoice in the God of my salvation. The Lord God is my strength. He has made my feet strong. That whole process, Jan, is what all of us are going through.

And God recorded Habakkuk by the power of the Holy Spirit so that we could have it for today. Despite a safer at home order, this live stream video of a Tampa, Florida church service has ignited outrage. And that pastor now arrested as parishioners sit in their vehicles, listening to pastor Charles Hamilton, Greenville police surround the church parking lot.

Central pastor Tony Spell has been formally charged by central police for violating the governor's stay at home order. Baltimore's interrupted service yesterday by police. The pastor says they didn't break any laws, but police say they aren't following the governor's order to keep gatherings to a minimum.

Their goal is to put on such onerous requirements that they're impossible for us to meet. Police posted this notice of public nuisance on the front doors of this church. Church choirs silenced. Singing has been banned at all church services in California. I received a call making it very clear that we as a church were in danger if we met, that if we met again, that the church was in danger, that I personally was in danger, and that we were being watched.

State and federal investigators have been called in to investigate a fire they believe was intentionally set at the First Pentecostal Church. I am told that there was a message left which said, bet you stay home now, you hypocrites. America, this is a serious moment. In just these few days, we're up to $52,000. Government, it must stop.

Actually played that clip a couple months ago. You can hear the passion in those pastors' voices. Tom Hughes' Gallup poll says that one-third of American churchgoers will never return to church because we are seeing churches being reshaped, and that's because of this whole COVID pandemic, plandemic, whatever you want to call it. And I think there's some truth to that poll that a third of American churches are not going to be what they used to be. What are your thoughts on that? And that's kind of not the fault of any pastor listening today. It's the tide of our times with the pandemic. I tend to think the poll is correct to a point.

I have a feeling it might actually be a larger number than that from talking to people. I do not believe church in America will ever be the same. The week before we went into the final lockdown here in California, this goes back to March, right after you left, Jan. We dropped down to 250 people per gathering. One of my people on the worship team, they looked at me and they said, what do you think it's going to be like in the future? I said, church will never be the same. The next week, we were required to drop down to 10 people. They haven't gotten out of that ever since.

It's been the same. Going with the two-week lockdown was the promise from the government. Listening to all those clips, I could not help but think what Daniel was told, just 30 days, you can't pray to your God, or you'll be thrown into the lion's den. What Daniel did, he went upstairs and he did what was right before the Lord.

He didn't do it out of a protest. He just did it because he was obedient to God. And he praised God and he prayed to God.

He opened up the windows as he always did. This is what the Bible tells us. And I know some of these things are so disturbing to hear, but I wholeheartedly agree with Pastor Mark, keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith.

He is our hope. I had a talk with my son the other day and I sat him down. I said, listen, I'm reading these things, the things that you have and the things that Mark has that we find.

And I said, here's the deal. You've got to keep your eyes fixed on Christ. What's it going to look like if all of a sudden we go into this Christian persecution?

It is Jesus. And we learned the lesson from what the Chinese Christians do, what they're doing in Iran, what they're doing in these other countries in the history of the world since the persecution against Christians began. You praise the Lord and you gather together, you get in his word and you do what you're supposed to do, because you know what? This is as close as we are ever going to get to hell because we're going to heaven. For those who are judged, this is as close as they're ever going to get to heaven. And they're trying to make it their heaven.

It's not going to work. We know what the end game is. These signs are happening.

They're frightening. But Jesus tells us what the signs point to. He is coming and we've got to keep our focus on eternity and on the Lord Jesus, and we will live forever and ever and ever. Thank you for that, Tom Hughes.

Catch Pastor Tom Hughes' prophecy update that he presents weekly on YouTube, or you can find it at HopeForOurTimes.com. And Tom, I suspect you may be being a bit marginalized online like the other ministries are right now. Can they find those same videos at HopeForOurTimes.com? Most of them.

You're right. Yeah, I had one recently that was censored. Yes, we all have. So I'm on Rumble now.

We're trying to find other platforms. We have a Rumble link right on the front page of my website because we are getting marginalized. And like the rest of us, we're just getting blasted by people. In fact, Jan, I'm sure Marcus experienced this.

You too. I'm getting hit up more from people who used to attend a church, are bothered by what I say, than people who never attend a church. And why is that, Tom? It shows the state of the church. The article that you quoted, the Gallup poll, the church won't be the same.

A third of the people will return. Listen, Jesus himself said, will I find faith? And we also know 2 Timothy chapter 3, in the last days, perilous times will come. And then we have the characteristics. And one of those characteristics is people will claim to know the Lord. They'll have a form of godliness, but deny the power they're up. They're going to deny the truth of God's word. They're going to say, well, we're the real followers of God, not you Bible-believing people. We see it going that way. And I believe the church has been set up in the sense of, for decades now, churches have put out polls in surveys in neighborhoods.

What do you want to hear? Then the pastors start teaching what the people want to hear instead of God's word. 2 Timothy chapter 4, in the last days, they'll be raising up teachers to itch their ears. We live in that environment. A lot of it is, there's not as many people who genuinely believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe the Bible, as the numbers have shown over the past decades here in the United States of America. Jesus said the path is narrow, that leads to life. The path is broad, that leads to destruction. What would make us think that in our generation of America, those words don't apply to us?

They do. They apply to every generation since Christ came, and they're applying to us now. That's why we get attacked from people who used to attend church. We're not quite through with this topic, but we are going to morph into another one.

I've got to take my midpoint break. We're going to talk about Pastor Tom Hughes' chapter in the new Terry James book, Lawless, End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist. We'll do that in part two of the programming, but I'm not quite through with this topic that we're on right at the moment.

I want to make another couple of comments, and I need some feedback from Mark Henry here as well. You talk about persecution from the world. I get emails from people who have been ostracized by their loved ones. Family members have turned on them for various reasons, heavily their politics.

There's a civil war mentality that has entered families right now, which is making the discussion we're having now even more complicated. We'll talk about that in just a couple of minutes. I'll be back. Don't go away. Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311.

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Sign up at our website under Resources at olivetreeviews.org. We'll get through this new year together as we await his return. How on earth could you get the world's population, the majority of them, to say, yes, I will worship you and receive the mark of the beast? I understand I won't be able to buy or sell unless I receive your mark. You go into the vaccination period, Jim, we moved so close in 2020.

Now we're getting even closer to 2021. Just because of the vaccination, it's a small step to get people to say, I will worship the beast and I'll receive his mark. We know you lead busy lives and can't always be by a radio. Remember that all programming in both its audio and video format is posted to our website, olivetreeviews.org. That's olivetreeviews.org. The video format is also posted to our YouTube channel and also his channel, Christian Television. We are pleased to partner with other ministries and churches in these last days, including today's guest.

Here is the conclusion to today's programming. Our nation has a spiritual problem and we need God's forgiveness. We need to repent of our sins and turn from our sins because I do believe that God's judgment will come on this nation. When we read in the scripture, we see how God judged Israel time and time again, when they would turn their back on him and begin to worship other gods, foreign gods, and God would bring judgment on Israel. And I believe God could bring judgment on America. And Franklin, real quick, one of your friends, Jack Graham, Prestonwood Baptist Church and many other religious leaders are saying the same thing. They're saying that Christians should be prepared for civil disobedience. I want to get your thoughts on that. Well, first of all, I think we have to wait and see what the ruling is and how it's going to be interpreted. If pastors are going to be forced to provide marriage services for gay couples, I'm not going to do it because I would be partaking in a sin against God.

Welcome back. That's been our discussion for about a half an hour here, and that's the coming persecution. How bad is it going to get?

I'm not sure we know. We haven't even talked about the ongoing censorship. Tony Perkins writes, most Americans thought they understood censorship. They've watched it evolve and expand the last decade, scooping up more people in its nets in the name of tolerance, diversity, and nonviolence. But what happened recently was not a tweet blocked here or an account suspended there.

No, this was much more ominous. What Twitter, Facebook, Google, Amazon, et cetera, did by locking out President Trump wasn't just a heavy-handed punishment of Donald Trump and his supporters. It was a scorched earth campaign against tens of millions of people who dare to think differently than they do.

And the open forums that give our movement a voice goes on to talk about these kinds of related things, the shutting down of parlor. In the meantime, the message to conservatives is clear. Big tech isn't just coming for Trump. They're coming for all of us. Christians and conservatives and corporate America isn't that far behind. Corporate America is going to join right in.

I gave a tease, Mark Henry going out of segment one. We got the persecution going on here by way of censorship, by way of persecution. And I referenced the fact that some individuals listening right now, they're hurting not so much from censorship or persecution in the church. Look, they've been ostracized by a family member for the way they voted, for being a conservative, for being a Christian, for not supporting Joe Biden, for being a supporter of President Trump. They've been virtually excommunicated from their family. If not literally, at least psychologically, they've been tossed aside. And this is a civil war mentality that's entered families. It has, Jan, and every week, Tom and I can both test this.

Every single week, I'm bombarded with people. My daughter won't talk to me. She won't let me see my grandkids anymore. Just this Sunday, a mom came in crying. She said, my son stomped out of the house. He says he's never going to talk to us again.

Now, this is really important. Jesus says a divided house cannot stand. We are in trouble as a country.

But how did we get here? Well, God says certain things about morality and ethics. In fact, we know in the Bible that God destroys nations when they do not value life, when they do not value family, when sexual perversions take place, when idolatry takes place, when violence and wickedness increases. We see all of that through the Bible. There's only two kingdoms, God's kingdom and Satan's kingdom. And now the clash is very evident in the United States of America. And Jesus says in Matthew chapter 10, do not think I came to bring peace on earth.

I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. And he goes and just describes how it's going to be tension in families. That's why it's so important in Mark chapter three, if you haven't read it recently, go back and read it. Jesus' family is coming to take him back to Nazareth because they believe he's lost his mind. And he asks this question, who is my mother, my brother, my sister? It is he who does the will of God.

Friends, he who does the will of God, who follows the Lord Jesus Christ, who embraces biblical morale, who embraces the Bible, the Judeo-Christian worldview, that's your brothers and sisters and your mothers and your fathers. Thank you, Mark. You're right.

I hear from people about this almost every day. They're brokenhearted. All they did was vote for Donald Trump and suddenly they are made out to be monsters. In the interest of time, I need to morph just a little bit. We'll see how the clock plays out here. I'm holding the new Terry James book entitled Lawless End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist because one of my guests, Pastor Tom Hughes, has a chapter in here. We're staying in the genre of churches and church activity and things that go wrong in the church. Evangelicals embrace inclusiveness. I want to read two paragraphs.

I'd love to read the chapter, but I obviously can't let me read two paragraphs. He says on page 334, a look at today's church seems to be a carefully staged reflection of the world system so often warned against in scripture. 1 John 2 15 says, do not love the world or the things in the world, but when the worldling stares at a typical evangelical church, she sees the world and she sees herself. This happened by design.

It was supposed to make her feel more comfortable and more welcome, but it doesn't have that effect. The church, the holy institution, set aside by God is sacred in the midst of a wicked fallen world has been camouflaged. Now it looks like every other human institution.

It has the same outlook, the same goals and accepts the same doctrines. It's another club. It's another social network. It's an NGO, non-governmental organization, a place to party, a league of voters. It's a place for personal virtue signaling, a place to fight for social justice.

And where can you get help with issues of self esteem? Okay, Tom Hughes, explain the title of your chapter. And then what is the progression that brought the church to where it is today?

How did we let this happen? Jim, those are great questions. Let me see if I can answer the title first. Evangelicals Embrace Inclusiveness is the name of the chapter that I wrote. I looked at where we are in the church in America today because that's predominantly the focus that I have. And that's what we've done.

We've traded the pursuit of being pleasing to God with wanting to hear the accolades of the people, what's going to please them. In the process, that's what's happened. The church is no longer effective. We can go back to the 1960s.

You can even go back before that. But when the church got away from proclaiming the truth of the Bible, when God was kicked out of school, when the church didn't stand up when abortion came in, you start going right on through from the 1960s to where we are today. Where we are today, this foundation was laid a long time ago. But the church compromised. I wholeheartedly believe that if the church in general never got away from proclaiming the truth of God's word, we would not be in the position that we are today. And I fault the churches that don't teach the word.

For what has happened is come because pastors have wanted to please people. I mean, look at the Book of Acts. They lived for Christ.

Their lives were not dear to them. You look at the Book of Revelation with the martyrs and you see they did not love their lives unto death. So you look at these things and we live in a world that is not pursuing Christ the same way within the church. So we have a very lukewarm church. The Book of Revelation describes that lukewarm church.

Jesus says, I will vomit you out of my mouth. And Christians on a personal life and also as a church itself are going to fall into one of two categories. Either we are going to be conformed to the pattern of culture or we are going to conform the culture.

In this case, we've been conformed by the culture. The churches that are faithful are having a really hard time in the world that we live in now. You write about the growth of the megachurch and some of the destructiveness that some of the megachurch pastors, and by the way, you're not suggesting, nor am I, that just because you have a megachurch and a large church, you're going to be unsound.

But nonetheless, and you happen to say it bluntly here, pick on, I think appropriately so, Andy Stanley. But he's made some astonishing statements suggesting, again, pastors should unhitch from the Old Testament. He states that he just wants Christianity to be more palatable in today's world.

Mark Henry, what is wrong with this? As I was reading Tom's chapter, by the way, thanks, Tom, for the book. Thanks for the chapter. It blessed my heart.

You're absolutely right on purpose. It is our ambition to please the Lord, whether we are at home in heaven or here on the earth. That whole thing that Andy Stanley ended up mentioning about unhitching from the Old Testament, I read that, Tom, and your statements in there, and I immediately started thinking of the book of Acts. Every single sermon in the book of Acts is filled with Old Testament quotes, so that means you have to throw away the book of Acts.

Then I started in Romans. I just started thinking through each of the chapters. Chapter 1, verse 17, the just shall live by faith.

That's from Habakkuk. Chapter 2, it talks about how the Gentile nations blaspheme God. And again, that's from the book of Ezekiel. And then you get to chapter 3, and I started going through each of the chapters. Then I started thinking, I wonder how many Old Testament quotes are in the New Testament.

It's 855. 96 in the book of Matthew, 34 in the Gospel of Mark, 58 in the Gospel of Luke. I mean, the Bible is intertwined, and so if you're going to disconnect, you don't even have a New Testament by the time you take them out. If you just join me, you're listening to Understanding the Times Radio. I have in studio Pastor Mark Henry. He is a pastor of Revive Church, Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, formerly Brooklyn Park Evangelical Free Church only.

The name has changed. Online from Southern California is Pastor Tom Hughes, 412 Church in San Jacinto, California. I'm the one who's highlighted some of the other names who are kind of in the same category, and that would be some of the, well, Rick Warren has gone down this path, I think.

Bill Hybels before he fell from grace. This whole seeker-sensitive movement, for that matter, the National Association of Evangelicals now encourages members to embrace political leftism. I think, Tom, this is kind of an across-the-board situation that's hit our churches probably in the last 30 years or so, but look, we're in Laodicea. What should we expect?

Well, exactly. When you look back, Mark can actually speak to this probably better than I can because of his involvement with seminaries, but if you look what's been taught in seminaries for the last several decades, it's no surprise that we are where we are, because in the seminaries, they've been teaching people on how to grow your church, how to get people to want to get closer to God. It's how to get more people in your church. Luke chapter 14 is a quote I have in the book where Jesus talks about counting the cost. Church has grown to the point of counting the cost. How much money can I make? How much money do I have to give to God to still make Him happy?

How can I find happiness in my marriage? Here's the cost. That's not the cost Jesus is talking about. Jesus is talking about counting the cost to be a genuine follower of Him where you might be persecuted, being surrendered to Him.

So you look at where we are, and it's no surprise. The church of Laodicea, Jesus says, I will vomit you out of my mouth. That is disgusting. You say you're rich. You have need of nothing. Actually, you're wretched. You're miserable. You're poor.

You're naked. The church in America has been deceived into thinking that they are following God when they are not. And I know I just spoke in very general terms.

I'm not thinking about every church in America. I'm a pastor and Mark's a pastor, but we can see it. The writing is on the wall.

I'll tell you this. This is what else I believe is happening. We're not battling against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. It's a spiritual battle. I believe that Satan knows that he has to eliminate the problem of the genuine follower of Christ in order for him to set up his final kingdom and in order for him to have his genuine assault against the Jews in the last days over in Israel.

I believe that's what's going on here in America. He's been able to politically and through seducing American churchgoers through the pursuit of money and happiness, seducing them to not putting God first. He's been able to marginalize a huge percentage of churchgoers. And now he's just dealing with those who are left who are genuine followers of Christ. I believe he wants to eliminate them so he can set up his final kingdom. And I believe that's actually what is going on. It is a spiritual battle.

And Satan knows that Jesus is coming. We carry this book titled Lawless, The End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist. You can find it in my online store at OliveTreeViews.org. OliveTreeViews.org. You can get my office a call.

We'll get one out to you very quickly. It's in our various newsletters, print newsletter, e-newsletter. You'll find the new Terry James book, Lawless End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist. And I'm drawing on the chapter contributed by Tom Hughes. By the way, I have a chapter in the book as well, but his is titled Evangelicals Embrace Inclusiveness. And we've been talking church issues here for the hour, and I'm not through talking about some of the church issues.

Obviously, we could take hours to talk about them. We've talked about emails and some of the sentiment coming into us that way and letters as well. We're just meeting folks on the street that I know. Mark Henry, I think the most frequent topic on their mind, number one question is, where can I find a good church? A lot of people have given up on church. A lot of people are thinking about a home church.

We referenced that earlier. The church is filled with conflict. Obviously, it's filled with imperfect people. Churches kind of resort to new ways of doing church that upset some people.

Music upsets some people. What kind of word do you have for those who are writing, you and me, where can I find a good church? You know, what I always tell people is this, we have an imperfect church and we are an imperfect church family, but we have a perfect savior and you're going to love him. What I think is happening, Jan, in this whole reshuffling of the deck of what's happening in the church and the people that are leaving the church, why are they leaving?

Because they really were not of us. And those that are staying and they're finding persecution in their homes and with their families and everything, I think there's going to be a bonding and affection for Christians. We see it as Christians suffer in Iran. We see it as they suffered in Cuba.

We see it in China. And I think that's going to end up happening. I just want to encourage you right now, my friends, listen, we're looking for the rapture. We're looking for Jesus to come. Be mindful.

The Bema Seat judgment is coming right after that. And we're going to give an account for everything that we've done. And that includes how we love brothers and sisters. And if you're married, you know, living with someone's difficult. If you've got children, you know, that's difficult. If you've got siblings, you know, that's difficult.

If you've got parents, you know, that's difficult. It's difficult having a church family, but I want to encourage you to find a church that preaches the Bible, holds a high view of Jesus, people that are genuinely seeking the Lord with all their heart, soul and mind. Not everything's going to be perfect. But in the last days, do not forsake the seven million of yourselves together as is the habit of some, but all the more as you see what the day approaching.

Tom Hughes staying in the same genre here of thought and conversation. What do you see for the church in 2021? Now, that's kind of a loaded question because we have a new administration, only been in office now about a week. We can use our imagination. We have a fertile imagination and we've already talked persecution is coming. Let's get just real specific for a minute or two, Tom. Obviously you've written about the church in this book.

What do you see around the bend here for 2021? I don't want to be the bearer of more bad news. That's okay.

Just speak your heart. Okay. Cause I've had to have these meetings.

I've probably have talked with Mark off the record. I've seen it from the California perspective. Yes. Apart from California, I don't really have the perspective of church in the other state. From my perspective, I had a meeting with some of my board members on Sunday after we had our church services. And we all agreed that we need to be prepared and we need to really become a lot more intentional about house churches here in California.

That's the approach we're taking. And I want to say this also to what Mark said for anybody who's listening to us in an area where there are no churches, it's unrealistic. The closest church is 200 miles away. That's open.

Cause I get these emails from people. It could be a long drive. Do everything you can to find one or two other people, because Jesus says where there's two or more gathered in my name, I am there with them. God does something specially, promises something special.

If you just meet with one or two other people and I'm watching what's happening. Satan has been very effective at dividing the church. I read an article just recently that said in the COVID generation with people staying at home, the thought is you're going to stay at home and read your Bible. They said actually Bible reading among former church goers had fallen in half. That's an alarming number.

Satan knows what he's doing. We're preparing our church to really get focused. I believe that here in California, there's a very good chance that the pressure is going to become so extreme that we're going to be meeting in houses by the end of 2021. I believe it's possible.

Yeah. I totally agree, Tom. And our elders have had those discussions as well. And in 1984, I heard J. Vernon McGee, Jerry and I were just getting married. We're just starting our ministry and he was preaching in our home church. And he said, look, the church began in homes in Acts chapter two. And he was preaching out of that passage. And he says, it's going to end in America in homes.

And I would suggest to you that is the very likely conclusion. Tom, you're absolutely right. Jerry and I moved to an obscure town in the middle of Colorado. He had to drive 164 miles one direction to find a good church.

He had to drive 45 miles the other direction. There was a couple there. They started meeting with a couple other couples in their home. They prayed for seven years that God would continue to give them grace and wisdom and that God would start a church there.

Jerry and I went there. There's a church of 300. They've started multiple daughter churches.

Listen, if you're in an obscure place, get with someone, pray with them, just like they do in Cuba, just like they do in Russia, just like they do in China. God is going to build his church. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail.

The church will prevail. Friends, keep holding on to Jesus. Hold on to his promise.

Hold on to his presence. We're carrying the book Lawless, The End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist. Pastor Tom Hughes, we're referring to his chapter on Evangelicals Embrace Inclusiveness. I have a chapter on the New World Order. There are 17 contributors to this book.

Terry James is the editor, but there are 17 contributors. And many of you will recognize Wilfred Hahn, Larry Speragimino, Tom Hughes, Nathan Jones, Todd Strandberg, my goodness, Dave Reagan, Mike Gendron, a number of others that are contributing to the book Lawless End Times War Against the Spirit of Antichrist. Quite frankly, this book was titled something else that would have been like back in January, and then came May of 2020. And ground zero was Minneapolis where Mark Henry and I headquartered. Minneapolis not only exploded, five miles of Minneapolis no longer exists because the spirit of Antichrist was, I believe, unleashed, well, locally first anyway, spread all across the country, then all across the world.

But it happened because of the George Floyd incident May 25th, 2020. Let me ask you gentlemen a couple of closing questions here. And again, you can reach Tom at HopeForOurTimes.com. You can reach Mark Henry at ReviveBrooklynPark.org. And you also have an app, Mark Henry, and it's Revive Twin Cities. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. Revive Twin Cities. Okay. So Revive Twin Cities app or ReviveBrooklynPark.org.

Mark Henry, I'll start with you. Now that we're well into 2021, and I already asked you what you see in store for the church in 2021, what do you see in the world of eschatology, maybe the top one or two or three, however many come to your mind, top stories that we're going to be reading about as it concerns eschatology or Bible prophecy in 2021? You know, as I just kind of look down the road, one of the things that is coming is inflation and the devaluing of the dollar. All three of us here have been talking about how the global currency has to come. There has to be a global economy. The word nationalism is actually one of the taboo words right now. They're saying that's a hate crime to say you're a nationalist. Do you believe there should be a national entity?

Why? If you remove that, all you got is globalism. The spirit of globalism, this control of finances, of buying, selling, and the persecution of the church. We know in the last days that Satan is going to be attacking the church, the rapture is going to take place, and then he's going to be trying to eradicate the Jewish people. These are the things that stick out in my mind as I kind of look down through the rest of the year.

Tom Hughes, your thoughts, please, and take your time because we have several minutes left. Funny you should have this question. I was just really frustrated with some of the phone calls I was getting and the different news the other day. I ended up, I had about a 15-minute break, and I started writing down things in my head just from knowing last days versus I wrote down 86 passages on signs of the last days. Then I had to stop. I had to get onto something else.

I'll add to that. It's so numerous. As I looked at every single one of them, all of them I know have already begun and they're only going to increase, but we've heard of the great reset from the World Economic Forum. It is coming and it encompasses everything that Dr. Mark just said. It can encompass finances. We're going to hear a lot more talk about going digital on currency. It's coming.

Jan, your chapter one in Lawless is fantastic. We're talking about the New World Order and globalism. That is going to be a major theme all the way out through 2021. I believe that we're also going to hear a lot more about climate change laws. When I read about climate change laws, the agendas of the UN, listen, they go hand in hand. The Paris Climate Accord, the World Economic Forum, and the agendas of the UN, they all go hand in hand, but the climate laws give the teeth that are necessary to implement the plan that require people to only live in certain neighborhoods. You can't do this.

You can't do that. They're climate laws, and they're very oppressive. They're more oppressive than the coronavirus rules have been. I believe we're going to hear a lot more talk about vaccinations. I'm very disturbed by the vaccination talk myself, as some friends that aren't. We have different opinions on that.

I'm bothered by it. I think it's all going a certain direction. I believe that the enemy of our soul is planned. If you look back to December 2019, how on earth could you get the world's population, the majority of them, to say, yes, I will worship you and receive the mark of the beast?

I understand that I won't be able to buy or sell unless I received your mark. You go into the vaccination period, Jim, we moved so close in 2020. Now we're getting even closer in 2021.

Just because of the vaccination, it's a small step to get people to say, I will worship the beast, and I'll receive his mark. Because people, 2020 and 2021 are not about social distancing. They're about social conditioning.

So we're going to have a lot more of the social conditioning that's going to continue to take place. I don't know how many things I've mentioned. So far, was it more than three?

Well, a lot of them, they all go together. And Understanding the Times Radio, we spent two full weeks on the Great Reset. This would have been three and four weeks ago with Brandon Holt House and Pastor Billy Crone.

We looked at it, played lots of clips and tried to educate the audience on what's coming. Now, I believe the Great Reset for the Christian is the rapture. So do we see the World Economic Forum Great Reset? I guess we could see some stage setting and we could even see some early stages of it. But I believe the church is out of here fairly soon.

You know, I thought that 30 years ago, too, so it didn't happen. Gentlemen, thank you both for joining me today. I appreciate it so much. Mark coming in and you joining me, Tom Hughes. Again, the book is Lawless, End Times, War Against the Spirit of Antichrist in my online store. OliveTreeViews.org. Find Tom at HopeForOurTimes.com.

Find Mark at ReviveBrooklynPark.org. Just a comment or two as we exit the program and we open the program talking about the coming persecution. That's not about the persecution of the church in the Middle East.

That wasn't our focus. Tragic as that is, but it's the coming persecution of you and me. And Jesus said that you will be hated by everyone because of me. But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. Matthew 10-22. The prophets were stoned, more than applauded, hated more than celebrated, persecuted more than praised. Jesus said it would be the same for us.

As Acts records, after the apostles were flogged by the Sanhedrin for preaching in Jesus' name, they left the Sanhedrin, what, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of the suffering for his name. And Jesus said in John 15, if the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belong to the world, it would love you as its own.

As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world and that is why the world hates you. I want to thank you for listening, folks. We will talk to you again next week. Right us through our website, OliveTreeViews.org. That's OliveTreeViews.org. Call us central time at 763-559-4444. That's 763-559-4444. We get our mail when you write to Jan Markell and Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311. That's Box 1452, Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311.

All gifts are tax deductible. Prayer support is just as essential to us as is financial support. It can be disheartening to watch the tide of our times. Remember that God remains in control. He cares for a fallen sparrow and for you. Nothing catches Him by surprise, and everything is falling into place.