Question and Answer Program No. 88

Now Martin Luther was not glorifying the tree. He wasn't paying homage to some pagan ritual. He was bringing glory to the one who made the tree. And since his day, of course, we string lights around our Christmas trees to symbolize the birth of the light of the world. When I think of even Isaiah, here's Isaiah saying the glory of Lebanon will come to you, the juniper, the box tree, and the cypress together to beautify the place of my sanctuary. That's Isaiah 60 verse 13. Thank you so much for joining us on this Friday broadcast of Wisdom for the Heart. Stephen is interrupting his current series so that he can spend some time answering questions that have come in from listeners.

This has become one of our most popular broadcasts over the years as twice each month, on the first and third Friday of each month, we answer questions that have come in from listeners. Is it okay for Christians to have a Christmas tree? Will animals go to heaven?

What about a Christian and in their thought life when they have bad thoughts? How do they respond to those? We have lots of great questions today and we're eager to get started. I'll come back in a few minutes and let you know how you can call in and ask your question, but we're really eager to get started. So here's our first caller.

Hi, I'm Jessica from San Antonio, Texas, and I had a question. I recently heard a preaching on Christmas and how the Christmas tree started off as a pagan ritual or whatnot. And so, and that was, I grew up not celebrating Christmas because it was, it's considered a pagan holiday.

So I guess my question is, if we are claiming or we want to be Bible based, so it's okay to use things that have pagan origins as long as they're used for good now? Thank you. Jessica, thank you so much for calling in with that question. So Stephen, do people need to ask forgiveness? Well that's a good question, and I'm so glad Jessica called in with this.

And I do get asked this periodically, and Scott, in the moment, I think you need to tell people about a resource that I think will be helpful to people. But there are well-meaning believers who think we should not celebrate Christmas at all, given the pagan origins of many of the things related to Christmas. It's simply true that there are many pagan roots to our Christmas celebrations. We know from history the Romans decorated their temples, their pagan altars with greenery, with candles. In fact, when the Romans conquered the British Isles, they found druids using mistletoe in their pagan worship ceremonies, and holly and ivy for decor. And by the 5th century, all of these had become a part of the church's celebration of Christmas.

And it has caused quite a bit of heartburn over that. And the Puritans of course tried to stamp all of it out, and they enacted laws in the 17th century, for instance, they made it illegal to cook any kind of special dessert for Christmas, and they made it illegal to cook plum pudding and mince pie in December, because they didn't want anybody celebrating anything related to December 25th. The problem with this, Scott, you know when we hear this question, is there are so many things embedded in our culture that have pagan roots. But observing them doesn't mean we're pagans. For instance, every day of our week is named after a god or a goddess. If you happen to drive a truck or a car named Mazda, well that's a pagan Persian god.

That's his name. The fish symbol, that has pagan roots, in fact drawn vertically, it represented the womb of the goddess. In China to this day, the great mother goddess Kuan Yin is portrayed in the likeness of a fish. You go back into Egypt during the days of Paul, and the mother goddess was called the great fish of the abyss.

So on and on. And by the way, don't eat fish on Friday, because that's what the pagans did to honor Aphrodite. In fact, don't even mention Friday, because Friday is the name of a goddess. So it sounds like pagan origins are really embedded in a significant portion of our culture. They really are. And there are kernels of truth embedded in culture as well.

For instance, if you look at some of the traditions of even Hinduism, for instance, I came across in my research one of their sacred texts, the Vishnu Purana, which they believe is sacred. Listen to how familiar this sounds, Scott, especially in relation to Christmas. In this belief, Krishna's father journeys with his wife to pay their taxes in a different city. On their journey, Krishna is born in a cow stall, while shepherds come to adore the baby. A meteor appears in the sky at that birthplace, and a prophet tells the king that this baby will overthrow him.

And the king orders the male children in that country to be put to death. How familiar is it? Sure. Well, who's borrowing from whom? Well, obviously, the enemy, Satan, has known the gospel, prophesied centuries before it occurred. And he's embedded in cultures, not just symbols, but stories.

So the question is, what do we do about it? Do we use the word Friday? Do we use the word Sunday that's named after the sun god of the Romans?

And can we decorate Christmas trees? There you go. All right, you're trying to bring me back to the task at hand.

Thank you for that. Well, I think Martin Luther had it right. Martin Luther, the converted monk, Catholic monk, wanted to give a redemptive meaning to these symbols. He didn't want to acknowledge paganism, but he wanted to use them to deliver the gospel story. And many believe that it's Martin Luther who was the first to put candles in globes on his tree. And what he did is he used the evergreen, and he put globes on there with lit candles to reflect or refer to the gospel of Christ. Now, Martin Luther was not glorifying the tree.

He wasn't paying homage to some pagan ritual. He was bringing glory to the one who made the tree. And since his day, of course, we string lights around our Christmas trees to symbolize the birth of the light of the world. And I think of even Isaiah. Here's Isaiah saying, the glory of Lebanon will come to you, the juniper, the box tree, and the cypress together to beautify the place of my sanctuary.

That's Isaiah 60 verse 13. In other words, God is honoring, in a sense, his glory through the visual stunning sight of these magnificent trees, which would be used to build the sanctuary, the evergreen and the cypress. Well, it's no surprise that Satan would counterfeit and corrupt this just as he corrupts everything. And he would have his followers adopt the use of an evergreen and worship it.

So that's corrupted. Let's give it redemptive value and let's turn it around. And I think that's what we can do with the days of the week, with eating fish, with the symbols of the fish itself, driving a Mazda, you name it, Scott.

All of these are embedded. Let's make sure that what we do doesn't honor paganism. But if we're not honoring paganism, when we're using a symbol of sorts and giving a redemptive value like Martin Luther with the Christmas tree, I think that has value. Thank you, Stephen. And thanks, Jessica, for calling in with that question. I hope it was helpful for Jessica and any of you who'd like to study a little bit more on this topic.

We have a booklet available that I think will help you. Stephen's written a booklet called Trees and the Christmas Story, where he outlined some of the things that he said today. And it relates really closely to Jessica's question about Christmas trees.

If you go to our website, wisdomonline.org and navigate to the resource section and look for the booklet Trees and the Christmas Story. Again, our website is wisdomonline.org. The phone number that Jessica used to ask her question is 910-808-9384. That's a special phone line that we have set up for you to ask us any question you have about the Christian faith or the Bible. It's 910-808-9384. You can call that number anytime that you have a question.

Record it for us and we'll play it on a future broadcast. If you're studying the Bible and you come across a question, you can ask us at 910-808-9384. Please know that we don't monitor that line in the sense that we can't answer that call and we can't return your call.

That's only for you to call in and record your question. We also heard from this listener. My name is Arlene and my question is about our thought life. The Bible says, does a man think it's so easy? And in the Proverbs it says, the thoughts of the righteous are right. I'm a Christian, I even teach, but I struggle with bad thoughts. I fight bad thoughts in my mind.

Thank you. Thanks Arlene for calling in with that question. Stephen, is it possible for a person to be a Christian and still struggle with bad thoughts?

Good question. And the answer is absolutely yes. We're going to struggle our entire lives until we're glorified in the presence of Christ and perfected. And that wicked fallen nature that reflects itself, that we battle against, that we fight, that we yield to Christ daily, that's going to be taken care of only then. In the meantime, you have the testimony of someone like the Apostle Paul who said, oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death?

He's talking about the things I want to do, I don't do, the things I don't want to do, I do. Now he's not saying friends that you can just go sin and hey don't worry about it. Paul wanted to live a righteous and holy life. He wanted to reflect Christ in his being, his vocabulary, his actions, and certainly his thoughts because what we do think in our hearts, that's really the battleground, isn't it? Isn't the battle in your mind? You've discovered that as a Christian, haven't you?

That's the battleground. So I think the word practice, Arlena, is a key word that I want you to think about. Go through the New Testament sometime and just look up the word practice because that's the key. It isn't that we're going to be sinless and we're never going to have a bad thought, and if we do have a bad thought that must mean that our heart isn't converted. No. The issue is what are we going to practice? What are we going to pursue? James writes in chapter 3, where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil.

Practice. He talks about in Revelation chapter 2, John does, you hate the practices of the Nicolaitans. Revelation chapter 21, he talks about the practices of idolaters and liars. And Revelation 22, 15, outside of heaven are those who practice magic or the occult. They practice sexual immorality, they practice murder idolatry, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. So the question isn't, do we sin? Because we do. The question really is, do we want to practice it?

And that person who wants to practice evil, that person who wants to cherish immorality, that person who wants to pursue it and live for it, that person's reflecting an unredeemed heart. Thank you, Stephen. And thank you, Arlena, for asking that question. Friends, once again, I'll give you the number that you can use to ask your question. That's 910-808-9384. You can call in anytime, just like this listener.

My name is Daniel Bismarck, North Dakota. My question is, will there be animals in heaven? Thank you. Daniel, that's a great question. Stephen, I was out Daniel's way this summer, made it out west, and there are some beautiful animals out in his part of the world. So I want to ask you, Daniel's question, really in two ways. So he's asking, are there animals in heaven?

But I'd also like you to deal with, if you would, how about our animals, our pets? Do they make it into heaven? I hope not. So there's like, yeah.

But you see the difference in the two questions, right? Okay. Please don't tell my pets I said that. But I've got a dog I really hope isn't there.

It's going to occupy way too much of my time. Well, let's answer the first part of that question. Are there animals in heaven?

The answer is absolutely yes. If you look at the passages that relate to us, not only the kingdom and the coming kingdom and the plethora of animals, but the new creation that Christ creates, the new heaven and the new earth, the earth will be populated. He's taking us back to the garden, as it were, and the new heaven and new earth will be something we'll explore forever. If you look at the picture of the host of heaven that returns with Christ in Revelation 19, the Lord is riding on a white horse and it says the armies that follow are riding with him.

And we have every reason to believe that's to be taken literally, which means I'm going to have to learn how to ride a horse because the last time I tried I fell off. But I think in our perfected state and the glory of that will be displayed in the heavens as the army of Christ rides forward. In Isaiah chapter 11 and also in 65 we're given again a picture of the eternal state and that experience begins to pull back its curtain in the kingdom where you have reference to a calf and a lion and a goat and a lamb and a horse and a leopard, could be rendered wolf laying down together in peaceful harmony. So that's interesting to consider all of these animals. I have every reason to believe that every animal God created when he created earth will be recreated and enjoyed forever in the eternal state of heaven, the new heaven and new earth. All right, so the follow up to that then regards the animals that we currently know, pets, other animals.

Do our pets, do animals living on earth now go to heaven? Wow. Well, I'll tell you what, Scott, I was actually asked that question yesterday from a lady in our church who has two cats. Oh, no.

Well, yeah. My answer was actually very compassionate. In fact, I kind of laughed with her and I said, you know, there are actually good people who believe that the pets of the believers will be in heaven.

Yes, C.S. Lewis taught that, or at least that's how he answered it to children. He did. And in fact, you go back further, Jonathan Edwards, the great church leader, believed that the pets of the elect, the believers, are going to be in heaven. And they answered it because of the joy that it perhaps would bring someone and God would give us every possible venue of joy. My problem with that is, number one, we don't have a verse that tells us. Number two, we understand that the animal kingdom is not immortal. So he'd have to do something unusual to my dog, Pixie, for her to show up in heaven because she's not immortal. She didn't have a soul or spirit like humans do.

We're made in the image of God, which means we're eternal animals or not. Third, the problem I have is what would bring me joy in heaven? Well, do I have any idea? I think of what C.S. Lewis also wrote when he talked about a little boy making mud pies in the backyard when he's been invited to the ocean and he doesn't want to leave his little mud pies.

He has no idea of the ocean. Well, when I'm standing in the presence of God, when I'm before his throne on that sea of glass and those created creatures are circling his throne, crying, holy, holy, holy, and a hundred million angels are singing to his glory as John saw it, am I really going to miss Pixie? Am I really going to think if only Pixie were here, I'd really be happy? That's my concern, Scott.

And so I wouldn't agree with those that say that this has to bring me joy, because I think the way we view joy then will be so different than now. Thank you so much, Steven. And thank you, Daniel, for calling in to ask your question. That number that Daniel used is 910-808-9384. 910-808-9384.

This is Shirley from Florida. I have a question. If you can explain to me what an apostolic church's beliefs are. Please explain. Thank you so much. Well, Steven, if I understand correctly, there is a denomination called the Apostolic Church, and Shirley's interested in knowing a little bit more about that denomination.

Sure. Well, I think for the most part, it is correct on so many things related to salvation, related to God. They believe in the Trinity. They believe in the atoning work of Christ, the virgin birth, the sinless life, the resurrection. It seems to me they've got a lot of the gospel right from what little I know about it. Where they would differ with us, or at least our church I should say, is that they believe that they track back to the apostles and they have apostolic power. So their leaders are going to be involved in all the apostolic evidences, speaking in tongues and healing and all those sorts of things. The baptism of the Holy Ghost, which is something that would follow salvation, the signs, the supernatural signs, and all those things.

Typically, here's how you can define them. They believe that we live in the book of Acts. They've never moved beyond it. They don't get into the epistles where you have the sign gifts waning and literally going out of existence. Paul in 1 Corinthians 13, making it clear that prophecy is going to end, the word of knowledge is going to end.

They don't get there. They stay in Acts, because the apostles did it, we're going to do it. There are many problems with that, obviously, because the apostles raised the dead. The apostles' shadows fell on people and they were healed. The apostles were given to prove the validity of the gospel, Hebrews tells us in chapter 1, by means of these signs. We're not proving the validity anymore without a Bible. We have the Bible, this is now the litmus test. A false teacher is one who's determined by their adherence to the teaching of the apostles, not the signs of the apostles. So my congregation doesn't look to me to raise the dead. No, I actually preside over the funeral. The congregation's not looking for me to heal all their diseases.

I pray for them, along with others, and leave it to God and His will as to their healing. So we're moving beyond the book of Acts. The book of Acts is a bridge that takes you from the Old Testament into the New Testament. The book of Acts is not a tenement house where you set up shop and live. As God is progressively giving His revelation, you see the church emerging from Judaism, moving toward what we know as a full expression of the Christian church. In the book of Acts, they determined leaders by throwing dice.

We don't cast lots today. They had one fund where they sold their property and collected it all in one pool, laid it at the apostles' feet, the apostles decided who would get what. You have your bank account now, and I have mine. We don't collect them, but we share from what we have together in a church body. So there are many things that are changing in the book of Acts. Let's make sure we don't pitch a tent and stay there. We keep moving through it. The principles are timeless and profitable, but how the church operates, let's go to the letters written to the church.

They're called epistles as we define our theology, our ecclesiology, our polity, that is our organization. Thank you very much, Stephen. And thank you so much, Shirley, for calling in with that question. And Stephen, we have time for just one more question. My name is Barbara Manning, and my question is for my daughter out in California. She lost her 12-year-old son in a tragic accident, and her question that she is struggling with is that he's in heaven, she knows, and is he able to see on earth here the suffering of her and the daughter and her husband? And that's the question that she's struggling with if he is looking down, and if so, she feels like he's sad if he's seeing them suffer. And that's my question. Thank you so much.

Well Barbara, we're very sorry to learn of the loss of your grandchild, and we grieve for you and for your daughter and her husband, but we're thankful that you called, and hopefully we can be helpful today. Stephen? Good question, and I'm asked often about this. Let me answer it two different ways. First of all, heaven and the eternal state and the presence of our Lord changes so much of what we understand right now. One of those things that changes is the perception of time. For instance, David writes in Psalm chapter 90 and verse 4 that a thousand years in your sight, O Lord, is as it were yesterday, or just a watch in the night. Peter writes similarly in 2 Peter chapter 3 and verse 8, that one day in the presence of the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day. So in a way, your grandson is just beginning his first few moments in the presence of the Lord, because a thousand years goes by like a day. So we have to consider the fact that things are different in the presence of our Lord.

Now let me kind of turn the corner a little bit and say something that might be surprising to you, because I think most believers have heard what I've just said. But I'm also intrigued by the fact that the martyrs who are in heaven before the throne of God, and they're killed during the tribulation period. And Revelation chapter 6 gives us their conversation with the Lord. So here they are, they have died, they've been martyred for their faith, they're now in the presence of the Lord, and they ask the Lord this question, how long, O Lord, until you avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? That's intriguing to me, because here they are in heaven, and they're still wanting justice.

They're still very concerned about the Lord's glory being revealed in truth. And they're praying this prayer, how long, Lord, will you refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth? It also informs us that they know that that judgment has not yet occurred. So even though time changes in a thousand years or like a day, they still know that the day of judgment has not yet occurred on those who dwell on the earth. Now, having said that, does that mean that someone in heaven is looking over a banister and watching? No, I can't believe that, simply because human beings, even perfected and glorified, are not omniscient, they're not omnipresent, they're not omnipotent, they don't have those attributes of God. And that doesn't mean that just simply because they're in heaven now they can see a million miles away, or they can focus in on some event. And so I don't think that we've become God in any way, shape, or form. And so in order to focus on something on earth, some event, some person, that would require to me divine attributes. And so I'm not sure how and what they can see, it seems to me they're very aware of what's happening on earth in general, they know the judgment of God hasn't come. But I also know that in the presence of God, times just sort of evaporates, and for your grandson and for people that I know, they're just now beginning to be introduced to heaven. So let me just summarize. There's a mystery here, isn't there?

We can't be exactly sure, but I can tell you this. Barbara, your grandson is not grieving, he's not sorrowing, he's not sad. Even if he could see, just as these martyrs are praying for God's judgment, they're not sad, they don't feel incomplete. The glory of God has overwhelmed them. They are in the presence of their Lord, and nothing will ever bring a tear to their eyes in sorrow.

Nothing will bring them sadness. They are perfected in their perspective. He is enjoying heaven.

He is enjoying the presence of God like we cannot imagine. Thank you, Stephen, and thank you so much, Barbara, for calling in. I hope that answer was helpful for you today.

You're listening to Wisdom for the Heart with Stephen Davey. The best way for you to interact with us today is online. Our website is wisdomonline.org. Earlier in this program, when Jessica asked Stephen about Christmas trees, I mentioned a resource on our website that I want to remind you about. Stephen has a little booklet called Trees and the Christmas Story.

Go to the resource section of our website, look for the booklet Trees and the Christmas Story. That address one last time is wisdomonline.org. I'll also give you our mailing address. We love getting cards and letters from listeners. If you'd like to write to us, our address is Wisdom for the Heart, PO Box 5729, Cary, North Carolina, 27512. Please join us on Monday for more Wisdom for the Heart.