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7 Qualities of a Disciplined Investor

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Truth Network Radio
September 21, 2020 8:03 am

7 Qualities of a Disciplined Investor

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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September 21, 2020 8:03 am

Wise investing requires discipline. But how can we learn to be disciplined and prevent our emotions from dictating our investing decisions? On the next MoneyWise Live, host Rob West explores that question with investing expert Mark Biller and then they’ll answer your questions. It’s the 7 qualities of a disciplined investor on the next MoneyWise Live at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.

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Need one of the most cited verses on investing is Proverbs 21, five steady plodding brings prosperity and hasty speculation brings poverty. But here's the thing about steady plodding requires this so I don't get this away. How do we prevent emotions from dictating our decisions well today will explore that investing expert Mark Miller then will take your financial calls.

800-525-7000 800-525-7000 on Rob West is off today.

Seven. Quality disciplined investor coming up next moneywise line well Mark Miller is the executive editor of sound mind investing. If there's one thing we know about their team being it's to make disciplined decisions about investing in today, especially Mark.

Welcome back to the program. Hey Rob good to be here with glad to have you here and we say today, especially because today was one of those days where it required disciplined and not emotional reactions in the market at Metro absolutely little dicey out there the last several days, so people that have maybe gotten a little complacent since earlier earlier in the year. Volatility getting a little taste of that again here in September. Absolutely.

Well, let's dive into this SMI's founder, Austin, prayer is a great article on the importance of discipline in the latest SMI newsletter so I look today Mark for you to start by giving us the overall theme before. Perhaps we dive into the details yeah sure. So I guess big picture.

You know what we've learned over the 30 years that we've been publishing SMI is that really when it comes to investing, learning what you're supposed to do is actually relatively easy, but doing what you're supposed to do that surprisingly hard so you know we can be our own worst enemies. A lot of the time, especially when the market becomes unusually volatile, like we were talking about earlier last year and to a much lesser degree here in the last few weeks. You know the one thing Rob that that separates the top professionals from the rest of us, and in which can take years to really develop his emotional self-control are emotions tend to interact with the news and the market events in ways that sabotages you know what we've all heard the ideal of buying low and selling high, but emotionally it's really hard to do either one of those, and our experience shows that you know most investors tend to do the exact opposite. Yeah well and were often willing to admit that only after we made the mistake so wanted to give us some examples. Perhaps what you mean by that. Yeah, sure.

Well, you know. Recently we've been seeing that very few investors were willing to sell high.

Even after we had this huge market rebound since March.

Over the last six months and in recent weeks leading up to the beginning of September.

There were a lot of caution signs of really high valuations.

A really steep ascent to the stock market, but as is usually the case when the markets have been have been good lately and our greed tends to kick in a little bit.

Investors want to keep making even more and on the flipside of the coin, the reverse is also true. It's not easy to buy lower seeing that right now. Today we had a little selloff but instead of people getting you probably more eager to buy usually prices are dropping because of the news is bad or the economy is not looking good.

People get a little more pessimistic and uncertain and it's hard to put money at risk when you have those types of conditions so instead of buying near the Lowe's people tend to wait for conditions to improve first and then at that point.

Prices usually are and all that low anymore yeah I think that the big picture point is for most people, are emotions tend to run the investing show and so you gotta figure out some way to break through that dynamic for us of SMI we do that by following mechanical strategies that sometimes force us to act even when we really don't want to because we got a signal that we predetermined is going to force us to take action so we put in the work designing those systems on the front end when were not under any emotional pressure from the market so that we can take action when the strategies state instead of what our emotions are telling us to continue to unpack this right around the corner with Mark Miller today will actually get into the seven qualities we need to develop if we can overcome emotions that will take your phone calls 800-525-7000.

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Mark Miller with me throughout the program. Today Mark and I will be taking your phone calls.

If you have a question related to the markets your investment strategy, retirement planning, hiring an advisor, whatever it is that we'd love to hear from you. 800-525-7000 or any financial question between now and the end of the program would be delighted to hear from you. We do have open lines again. 800-525-7000.

Have you checked out the new moneywise app. We'd love for you to do that it's out on the Google play store the Apple App Store. Or you can go to We spent the last eight months building what we think is the best digital envelope system out there, plus a way for you to engage in the moneywise community listen to all the moneywise broadcasts connect with a certified kingdom advisor. It's all there in the brand-new moneywise app again or on your App Store today were talking with Mark Miller today about the seven qualities of a disciplined investor. Perhaps you've been a bit emotional. In some of your decisions. Today's volatility in the stock market is a great example of why we need discipline why we need rules and perhaps even why we need to heed the counsel of Scripture and hire someone to manage our money for us. The focus of our time. Today is really at the heart of an article that was written by Austin prior you can find you'll see a link to it right there at the top of the page and you can access it. It's a great read. I'd encourage you to check it out again. Sound mind and market you've identified these seven qualities that we need to develop to overcome our emotions. Let's dive into the list. What's first yeah well it's one that we actually don't often think about in terms of investing in it humble, you know, we accept that there's nothing new under the sun as Ecclesiastes 19 tells us in the instructions that God's given us in his word have proven time and again to be practical and effective in their journal, safety, and following the priorities and guidelines that he provided for our protection. You really if we abandon those principles and those priorities were saying that more confidence in our own thinking than in his which is fully we don't want to. In that position and the second quality really goes hand-in-hand with that and that's to be conscientious and what we mean by that is seeing yourself as a caretaker of what God has entrusted to you, and we need to acknowledge that when we take undue risks were really jeopardizing his wealth because were not in. That's just for ourselves but to responsibly build our assets so that we can provide for our families and give more generously yeah hopefully everybody listening to this broadcast feels similarly to the way we do it SMI, which is that we want to play our part in taking the gospel of Christ to the millions never heard it and being good stewards and good investors is one way that we can help play that out. There's no question about that. I love that we got a start by being humble, being conscientious, no understanding that God owns it all isn't just acknowledging the truth.

It's critical for keeping our emotions at bay and I think when we understand that it changes everything. Let's move through one more of these qualities of a disciplined investor before we turn our attention to some phone calls.

So Mark what's next on the list. The next step is to be prepared and that means developing a written plan that lays out your investment strategy. It should reflect your personal goals and appropriate level of risk and understanding how all the parts of your portfolio fit together, and the role that each part plays and then once you got that plan you want your buying and selling to be dictated by the plan instead of by your emotions or any other outside conditions are inputs in our goal here is to be an initiator and not a responder because there's always going to be input hammering you to try and get you to act and you want to be acting inside out, not outside in your reacting to biblical principles you're reacting based on a set of rules that have been predetermined you're always going to perform better as to how you're making decisions rather than reacting to the news of the day, which will invariably take you in the wrong direction. Great insights Mark. Let's turn our attention to the phone lines.

Debbie is calling today from Chattanooga.

Debbie you're on moneywise live, go right ahead how to spend several years later when labor Down and had a lot of hail and letting my little bit about my situation right now I have an IRA that may need and and actually had it in the 401(k) and changed jobs inside welded never into a self managed to not fail. And that's been about 10 years and it's ground to be at and I was considering using a king in the battery for plaintiff because I doubt he'll like a really mad at match and never been really comfortable with and I did let my tight control sometimes.

So the question how is if I were with someone else. I would be daily and I'll be changing the market is at an all-time high at this point, does that mean everything at any and every new technique that will be more volatile and we have a downturn. Yeah, it's a great question Debbie, do you mind if I ask what you have roughly and investable assets around that 95,000 together with okay very good market timing on moving to an actively managed portfolio new considerations for Debbie well the beautiful thing here Debbie is that the money is in an IRA. So first of all, if you do end up making changes with an advisor, you're not have to worry about taxes enough. Your investments are up in that account, you can still make changes without that having any tax implications now as far as you know this style of how that advisor is going to invest the money.

There are lots of different approaches that different advisors take and that's actually a really key part of hiring an advisor is making sure that your kinda doing an interview process to make sure you're comfortable with the approach that they take so you know, you may find an advisor that maybe isn't using a dramatically different approach than what you know you've been doing on your own, or you may find an advisor that's doing something dramatically different and you need to make sure that you're comfortable either way so I wouldn't assume that it's gonna have to be a certain way when you go with an advisor but that's definitely a question you want to get into fairly early in that process. I think that's great counsel. I love that you're thinking of us certify kingdom advisor that will ensure Debbie that you have an advisor not only his competency but really understands the biblical principles and admonitions from Scripture as relates to managing money and Mark would be the top three questions you would ask when you're interviewing the perspective advisor yeah so and I think that it's it's always good to kind took the box of finding out about the investors qualifications in any certifications I have that type of thing. As we just talked about. You definitely want to dig in a little bit into the specifics of how they're going to manage your money. You know some people use mostly index funds and that kind of thing which may be great with you.

Maybe not. Maybe you're looking for a more active approach. Maybe they have multiple strategies Which is kind of the approach that SMI advisory takes, so you really want to understand the strategies it's very important because if you don't understand them on the front and you might not be comfortable once you see them start to play out within your account. So those are the two really important ones.

And then of course you always want to inquire about cost.

Some people feel funny about asking those questions, but it's just like any other business transaction. You need to know what you're going to be paying and how that is going to be built so those would be three that I would definitely have near the top of my list about you, Rob. What else would you add to that. Well I would just want to make sure the person asks you more questions than they do sell you on something because you want to make sure that there's a good rapport and that this is somebody who's interested in what God has for you, as opposed to trying to just convince you that they're the best advisor, Debbie. We appreciate your call today. Hope that's helpful.

Mark Miller right around the corner were talking about the disciplines of an investor from a biblical perspective. You can find the article of sound mind will take more of your calls right around the corner 805 five 7000.

Thank you with us today. This is moneywise. Do you know if you have enough money house. Do you know how much is enough.

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Splitting hairs will foster a real appreciation for the precious resources that God has entrusted to you, and it's available. Click the start button moneywise love back to moneywise. I unravel as Steve Moore off today sitting in with me throughout the broadcast today is Mark Miller sound mind investing sound mind where you can find the focus of our conversation today. The seven qualities of a disciplined investor well were so thankful that so many of you are calling in today with your questions were to go right back to the phones and welcome Paula to the broadcast in Parkland Fork for Paul you're on moneywise life is but I'm pretty nervous about it will need guidance right what you start Paula by Tony, just a little bit about what you're thinking in terms of your nervousness about selling.

What is it that's really tripping you okay good. Not thinking that Patty could get my money right now, but I'm thinking should Iran or should I buy after I'm not quite sure what to do after that yeah are you moving to a different area.

Paula perhaps removing out of Parkland or you just relocating them. Perhaps close-okay and what is your goal in selling. Do you need more space. Are you trying to downsize. Looking down cut your budget out okay very good and so I think the key whenever we're thinking about buying a piece of real estate or renting is really to start with that budget. Because of that your primary consideration for moving and even if it's not. Perhaps if you were just trying to relocate to another area. We do need to make sure that whatever you're doing. Moving forward is gonna fit into your overall spending plan.

If you were to buy something you were to take on a mortgage or renting for that matter, we would use as a rule of thumb, and that's all it is is a 25% of your take-home pay no more than that going to principal, interest, taxes and insurance for your all in rent payment and that would ensure that you have plenty left over for your fixed and discretionary expenses.

Again, it's all got a balance instead of working your plan but that's at least going to put you in the ballpark in terms of a good starting point. So as long as you start with that budget and understand what you're trying to accomplish. That's thing to give you a price range that says okay I can afford to buy X amount and it's not going to be a budget buster doubt as to whether you want to buy another piece of real estate or you want to rent often I would look at the rest of your financial life is a good indicator of that is the sum where you think you can stay for a minimum of 5 to 7 years.

Do you have the down payment.

Hopefully you got some equity built up in this current property that you would be able to roll in and at a minimum, you'd be able to put 20% down. In this new property.

Hopefully you built up more equity than that of you be able to put down quite a bit more than that, but if it works in your budget.

If you have the down payment to put in if you don't have any other just kinda glaring issues financially a lot of credit card dad or budget that doesn't balance things like that that would cause me to perhaps want to slow down and making another major purchase, then I think you know I like the idea of you being a homeowner building equity again as long as you to be there for some time in the budget works but give me your thoughts on everything that you shared with now to look at the market you in. That's the only thing I would caution you on you know if there was something else in your financial life that caused you not to want to make a big financial commitment into a home that would be one thing but to stay out of the housing market simply because you want to pick a better entry point that just typically doesn't work out in your favor.

You know, usually you're going to get you to do well on one side or the other but usually not both. So in a in a sellers market like ring now where there's low inventory houses are up, you're going to max you can get top dollar. In most cases for your sale now you are probably going to pay top dollar.

But the idea that you would wait on the sideline for a period of time, hoping and expecting that the market is going to roll over only to pick your entry point. It just typically doesn't work out well.

You try to do that and this is your home. It's more than just an investment. It's the place where you're going to live in so I wouldn't approach it like an investment in terms of selecting the entry point like you're talking about. So if it were me, as long as the other pieces lined up. I go ahead and sell that piece of property, and then move right into the next one as opposed to trying to wait for better timing, hoping that the housing market is going to respond accordingly. It's a great question, though, we appreciate your calling in today, we've got just a moment left, let's go to Ray in Orlando Florida right just about 60 seconds what you have force okay so I retired I got a big lump sum 401(k). Now how do I calculate how much money I should take out of the monthly or yearly. So I don't okay market and average rule of thumb that you can pull from a 401(k) in the form of income.

Yeah, you know, the standard rules. This is 4%.

But that is again just a rule of five minutes very important to look very closely at your expenses at your budget and you know do a rough comparison there with with the income that would be provided and see how that's going to last and make adjustments from their very good Ray hope that's helpful to Peter and Mason were coming your way more money wise live right around the corner Mark Miller with us today on Rob West. Stay tuned for more. 800-525-7000 investing is more than just return. It's an expression of who you are and what you value is the way you invest your money reflect your identity as a Christian and eventide design investments for performance and a better world so you can invest with the confidence to reach your financial goals while remaining true to your Christian values and commitments.

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Find it all in master your money by Ron blue available when you click the start button moneywise is John's president Drumm says he expects to quickly announce his bid for the Supreme Court on Friday or Saturday. The president told Fox and friends. He has a list of finalists wants his choice confirmed before election day, the Justice Department has identified New York City, Portland, Oregon and Seattle is three cities that could have federal funding/memorandum by the president but sought to identify localities that permit anarchy, violence and destruction in American cities. Florida's governor on the saddest, says the state is going to get tough on people who turn violent during protest. His proposed legislative package would also strip municipalities of state money. That's if they defund law enforcement walks, stocks of falling sharply on Wall Street today but I'll drop 509 points. The NASDAQ was down 14 this is SRN news back to moneywise live on Rob West Seymour off today sitting in with me this hour is Mark Miller sound mind talking about the seven qualities of the disciplined investor in market in markets like this, especially where it seems like there's always a few high flyers those particular companies that are just way out ahead of the others thinking about companies like Tesla and a few others as of late. It seems like every season has one or two that are doing that you know there's a temptation to react and feel like you're missing out on something and maybe I need to take a portion of what I've been squirreling away and jump into one of those stocks. How should we process that you are so right Rob, you know, one of the hardest things for investors is this the fear of missing out like talk about Homo and chasing that those high flyers because you might be somebody in the office or whatever that and I was talking all the time about how much money they're making trading Tesla or whatever his and and it is hard to resist that a new trend maybe do the slow and steady plotting thing and hear your neighbor is seemingly making money hand over fist, and I think that it's important to keep in mind that it's it's very similar to what we we see in terms of consumer goods, you know, we see the person in the nice car the nice house for only seeing one half of the balance sheet and so it is when you see somebody making a lot of money with high flyers during a particularly strong market you're only seeing one half of the balance sheet, so to speak. The other half being what happens when the market turns and often times those quickly earned gains have a way of evaporating just as quickly so you know we just want to try to stay anchored in that slow and steady wins the race. The steady plotting leads to prosperity as Scripture teaches us and operating again, like we said earlier, inside out instead of outside and not being influenced by mania or the panic of the moment in the markets, but instead charting our own course. Knowing what we need to accomplish our own financial goals and just relentlessly operating and and executing on that plan is no question about it. And clearly God's word has a lot to say about how we should think and act as it relates to our investments are management if you will of God's money. We been talking today about the seven qualities of the disciplined investor Mark, you told us we need to be humble. We need to be conscientious, we should be prepared with this next discipline really speaks to what you were just talking about there with the urge to jump into a highflying stock. What is the next one on the list is an emotion that you want to have and that's to be content knowing were overly focused on profits we run into a danger zone.

As the apostle Paul warns us in first Timothy six money.

He says those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires for the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, and wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs, so as were drawing up our financial plan.

It's important to be reasonable in our financial ambitions because we we know that more money is lost due to greed than probably any other single factor. People tend to take on too much risk when their reaching and shooting for really high returns now on the other hand, if your plan is drawn up so that it's going to get you where you need to go while earning reasonable historical rates of return maybe 8 to 10% per year at the high and then you're less likely to go off script chasing these risky investments that promise the moon because you can can see how your plan is going to lead you to success without needing to take those big risks. Well this next question coming from Bolingbrook, Illinois, and Anita has to do with a particular segment of the market that involves a bit more risk in the urine moneywise live go ahead really enjoy the show. Trading I am mad I want to get you got, you pay a monthly fee to getting you paid like like to get your pay a monthly fee to all people under you to my way.

If you do that you would have to pay a monthly fee about Forex trading that day and night trading yeah very good mark.

Perhaps a definition or two first and then your thoughts so neato and what else was listening here. Forex trading is typically talking about trading currencies and so without going into a lot of detail all of the currencies around the world trade on a floating basis. So they're moving up and down relative to each other. So when you're training, Forex currencies, your ear typically like trading the US dollar against the euro or against the Japanese yen or that kind of thing. The Forex markets are huge. There is an enormous amount of money that trades in these currencies every single day. However, I would caution anybody very strongly about this area in that this is this is swimming with the big fish so the the institutions that are doing this type of trading. These are the sharpest, sharpest knives in the drawer and they've got systems and technology and firepower behind that as an individual you just can't match and you may be in it sounds like Anita you found somebody who's offering a system and obviously we can't say whether that system is good or bad by the idea that you trading at home with somebody's enough system like that you're to be competing with you know the deepest institutional balances in an area that can really get pretty wild and is really so, moment by moment. It's just that the very difficult way to go.

The other warning flag that I would just be very concerned about is the idea of what sounded like there is maybe kind of a multilevel thing wrapped in there of getting people trading under you and I would just be very cautious that any trading system that is bringing that and as a piece of the picture that that makes me very nervous.

You know, trading and investing for your own account. You really shouldn't need some other income kicker to make that attractive so that this is a little bit of a red flag to me Rob, what are your thoughts well I couldn't agree more. I think all of these issues. Those trading in the Forex markets as well as using one of these systems, especially where there's a multilevel aspect to it.

I would stay away from all of that. I like to keep it simple. I'd rather you hire a really high quality mutual fund manager or build an ETF portfolio or just turn it over to an investment advisor. This is money you've built up long and hard over the years in your systematic investing and let's not to take unnecessary risk. With God's money. Let's put it to work over the long haul. Even if it's not as exciting as it might be in the Forex market. Anita, thanks for your call today talking about paying off an upside down car will talk about whether to take a deferred comp that's all right around the corner. Mark Miller staying with us for the rest of the program is well look forward to taking your calls. This is moneywise one of God's word meets your financial decisions will be right back. Here's a great deal more about our money than most of us imagine Jesus is more about our use of money and possessions and about anything else, including both heaven and hell in managing God's money. Author Randy L breaks it all down in a simple, easy to follow format that makes it the perfect reference to what you're interested in gaining a solid biblical understanding of money, possessions and eternity managing God's money is available when you click the start button moneywise. hi I'm very tired. I'm here to help you understand the urgency and how much fun it is to share your faith in the eyes of a layman. Just like anything else, the more you share your faith, the easier it gets, the better you are at it and the more fun you have doing it, but God use whatever you do in the loss for the moment you first begin, because you're just a vessel essay with the Holy Spirit speaks through you and the reason for Jesus that's not depend on you and your willingness to participate. You have no idea, but God knows exactly where every person is spiritually what they need to hear to bring them to you. That takes the pressure off of you. Jesus said, you simply need to love on people for them to know you're his disciple and then let the Holy Spirit speak to you with words that even surprise you that having an intimacy with God is not possible any other way.

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We been covering the disciplines of an investor in this is all from an article you can find it. Sound mind We would encourage you to check it out.

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Again, Mark we been covering these disciplines of an investor, you mention several of them already look for you to talk about this last one. It's accountability. What is that have to do with investing well and we suggest that you and we talked about creating a plan and we often talk about that on these programs.

The importance of having a plan operate from in the accountability piece there is that we suggest showing that plan to either spouse may be trusted Christian friend and then reviewing it periodically to show that you're being faithful with it and not the main reason that we suggest that as it's a lot harder, you'll think harder, at least about deviating from that plan. If you know that you're going be answering for what you've been doing to somebody else that's a lot you know you're going to think twice before you make exceptions if you're doing that. And, of course, as we talked about earlier in the program.

If you're working with an advisor, that's a great form of accountability as well to help keep you on track so you know, to wrap all this up. Rob, you know, our main point here is taking these steps is going to help assure that your honoring the Lord and his priorities going to help you strike a wise balance between the risks and rewards of the marketplace and that way when you do run into these inevitable bear markets and economic storms and we can be of good cheer. God tells us in Psalm 32. I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go out counsel you and watch over you. The Lord's unfailing love surrounds the man who trusts in him and that's what were trying to do with the seven disciplines I love it if you'd like to read all seven.

You can find the articles. It's right at the heart of our conversation back to the phones Lakeland Florida Peter were delighted to have you on moneywise live today, go right ahead, well, thank you so much for your program. You share with people lots all I could take my call last month and what the house last year and grown so when a place where were going to be smart. Look it up money for retirement plan or little bit late but you will bill the shutdown of the gallant Edward Jones got stock pick on that were recommended to communicate that the 100% of your life. I'm doing some stock, like 401(k) and the raw budget.that.that emblematic look at absolutely Peter and thanks for your kind remarks. So congratulations for paying off your house, you're 50 years old. It sounds like you are maxing out your 401(k) on a monthly basis are also contributing to a Roth but you have some perhaps discretionary income. In addition to that, that you're looking to put into the market is all right in the market. Learning quickly rapidly traits not all the accountant on the lady help me with finance at 530. She picked a few for me and Anna took God right you know Lori, but she wants to mark on investing directly in the market, perhaps beyond contributions to a 401(k) in individual stocks. Yeah, you know, I think the big picture here is that we we would encourage you to view all of your investments. The 401(k) of the Roth anything you've got in a taxable account that you're supplementing those others with we would encourage you to view all of that as a single portfolio so you not. You're not thinking about well that's my 401(k) and I'm doing that with that and that's my Roth I'm doing that with that, but rather to think of that is one big portfolio. Now you might favor certain types of investments in those specific accounts and that's fine but it's not like well in my 401(k) and Roth.

I do mutual funds but over here in this other account I do individual stock. It doesn't need to be that way. In other words, you can own similar things in these and all of these different accounts and that may be a simpler way to think of your total portfolio.

You know, in terms of individual stocks. There's nothing wrong with trading individual stocks, but I do think that that's harder for most individuals than investing through mutual funds and the reason for that is the diversification that those mutual funds gives you.

It's much easier to build a well diversified portfolio with a handful of mutual funds than it is to get a similar type of diversification across a larger number of stocks individual stocks just require you to put a lot more effort into really knowing those individual companies and if you're going to be investing in.

You know 10 or 12 of those.

That's 10 or 12 companies you have to keep up with when you use a mutual fund, you're kinda counting on the manager to do that for you. They're the ones that are are needing to keep up with what's going on with those companies, Peter. I definitely wouldn't say don't trade individual stocks.

It's not that at all. I just don't want you to feel like you need to do that in addition to investing in mutual funds.

If the mutual fund seem like there put me on a path to get you where you need to go.

It's perfectly fine to have a mutual fund only portfolio across all of your accounts. Very good, Peter. We appreciate your call today. Hope that's helpful to you. Let's go right to St. Petersburg, Florida Nathan, you're on moneywise live guys thanks for my call. Have a question. The bit off topic but I find myself in a situation here where I'm upside down in my car note, my wife and I are actively just starting you be serious about getting out of that solar or just taking down the debt, the credit card lowest total on up our car is we owe the 21 and it's worth 90 so they 2000 upside down and just kind of wondering what we can take you have to get out of that will just have to wait it out until we break even or we could trade it in for a cheaper car or really just anything to stop. Yeah it's the best way out of this is to continue making payments Nathan until you've paid off the negative equity. That's of course the amount the car depreciated when you drove it off the lot. When you reach the point where your blue book value equals the balance on your loan. Then of course you could trade it in on another car or sell yourself which is where you'll typically maximize the value if you couldn't wait that long. You'd obviously have a couple of options one would be take out a personal loan for the difference between the blue book and what you owe. Sell the car, pay off the loan with those proceeds and then the money from the smaller loan or as you suggested, just roll the difference into a new loan on a less expensive car. You just have to crunch the numbers to see which is the best of those two options. Either way, I think the key to take away from this is to make sure you don't buy more car than you can afford save up as much cash is possible for the down payment so you don't ever get into a negative equity situation and that just drive these cars as long as you can. We appreciate your call today.

Final call for today's broadcast.

We go to sterling Illinois and Gary you're on moneywise live Karen McCall McCall is about him? My wife and I years ago we had started the per capita state and make it smallish a long story short, we like to hop $400 a month and will I retired in 2012 I get Net Money in There Now We Stop in the Good Times Do I Get Penalized for Not Putting Money into That Deferred Comp Because the Dividend Keep and and It Keeps Growing and I Just Keep That Going.

Mark Got Just about 30 Seconds. Rob, You Know, You May Have More Experience with Deferred Comp Accounts Than I Do. What's Your Thought on That. I Would Say You Want to Keep Putting into and Obviously You'll Have the Option to Roll It out at Some Point, Which Is What I Would Encourage You to Do. Gary Move That into an IRA, Which Is Separate from the Company. In the Meantime, I Would Just Being a Systematic Contributor to That and You'll Be Glad You Did down the Road.

We Certainly Appreciate Your Call Today. Mark, It's Been Great Having You along in the Steve C Today. He'll Be Back Later in the Week, but That We Appreciate You Sitting and Grateful for a Partnership of Sound Mind Will Have Rob Anytime God Bless You Buddy to Say Thanks to My Team Today. Dan Anderson, Aaron Rios and Jim Henry. I'm Rob Last in This Is a Partnership between the Radio Moneywise Media.

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