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Carolina Journal Radio No. 902: Democrats make Biden nomination official as campaign heats up

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai
The Truth Network Radio
August 31, 2020 8:00 am

Carolina Journal Radio No. 902: Democrats make Biden nomination official as campaign heats up

Carolina Journal Radio / Donna Martinez and Mitch Kokai

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August 31, 2020 8:00 am

Joe Biden has officially accepted the nomination as the Democratic Party’s presidential candidate. Rick Henderson, Carolina Journal editor-in-chief, analyzes the impact of the recent Democratic National Convention on the 2020 presidential race. The COVID-19 pandemic has generated questions about North Carolina’s housing supply. A recent online forum from the John Locke Foundation highlighted housing issues tied to the pandemic. State legislative staffer Brent Woodcox, founder of a group called YIMBY Raleigh, offered ideas about policy changes that could help residents deal with housing challenges. Mark Zimmerman, senior vice president of NC REALTORS, offered additional perspective. During the midst of the pandemic, the University of North Carolina System welcomed Peter Hans as its new president. Hans delivered a first-day-on-the-job message to UNC campuses across the state. He focused on addressing the university’s priorities during difficult times. North Carolina awaits the next step in the long-running Leandro school funding lawsuit. Jeanette Doran, president and general counsel at the N.C. Institute for Constitutional Law, dissects key constitutional concerns surrounding a case that involves courts in policy decisions that usually reside within the General Assembly. In the midst of a pandemic, one western N.C. hospital is battling a campaign to unionize nurses. Becki Gray, John Locke Foundation senior vice president, discusses the conflict between HCA Healthcare, the largest hospital system in America, and the National Nurses Organizing Committee, the nation’s largest registered nurses’ union.

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From Cherokee to current attack and the largest city to the smallest town and from the statehouse into the schoolhouse Carolina Journal radio your weekly news magazine discussing North Carolina's most of public policy events and issues welcome to Carolina Journal radio I'm Ashoka during the next hour Donna Martinez that I will explore some major issues affecting our state.

The covert 19 pandemic is raised questions about housing challenges in North Carolina will hear from two experts. They took part in a recent John Locke foundation form on the topic during the midst of the pandemic. The University of North Carolina system welcomed a new president will hear from Peter Hans. He delivered an opening-day message to the University community a constitutional law expert shares thoughts about lingering issues linked to North Carolina's long-running Leanne Drew school funding lawsuit and will analyze a union fight involves nurses a major Western North Carolina hospital. Those topics are just ahead. First, Donna Martin has joined us and she has the Carolina Journal headline Democrats Joe Biden and Connolly Harris are hoping that the American public liked what they saw at the Democratic national convention and liked it enough to send the pair to the White House and send Donald Trump back to New York and the Democrats see their path to the Oval Office coming right through North Carolina. Rick Anderson is editor-in-chief of Carolina Journal Carolina Journal of course is that covering all of the key races including all sorts of races at statewide races here in North Carolina you can find that coverage at Carolina. Rick welcome back to the program. Thank you alright so former VP Joe Biden. There had been a lot of speculation directly with Pres. Trump referring to Mr. Biden as sleepy Joe and slow Joe, but he delivered Biden yet. He did the thing it was and she has the appearances that he made during the convention actually look at the text of his prepared remarks. They were typically very very short sentences very straightforward redirect. That's what he generally talks when he's at a Teleprompter and so they played to his strengths.

When is almost up wanting to be spontaneous about things is very chatty and very glib, but he was very focused and very direct in his talk, and if you notice the cobble Harris's address for the not accepting nominations. VP it was much more expansive. It was that her prepared remarks had the longer complicated sentences of the like that. So again playing to her strength. As for prosecutor if you will.

And so it was a each one seemed to be well suited to the other indicative of very good speechwriters they've Artie picked up the cadence and the strengths and weaknesses of their two that's correct stores. They really have really have it.

I think the thing about cobble Harris were finding out more. More after her selection and now that she's been at it for a couple weeks now is that she is now coming to see her role.

I think as the prosecutor for the Biden campaign will. She is the person of course experience prosecutor California former Atty. Gen. is the trial lawyer write-downs of their making the case for the jury that the Joe Biden's a guy should be elected president and that's probably good play to her strength as well because she doesn't have to actually come up with a program of her own.

She can simply go out there and argue for the platform. The Democrats your description in and of itself is pretty interesting considering that, Harris's candidacy is historic in an in number of ways, but yet she's filling a very traditional role for a vice presidential candidate. The attack dog.

I'm stumped right and I think she's that I think she's probably well suited for that.

It is if you had to guess what topline takeaways from the entire convention we could probably talk about zoom call aspects of things but but the top line that the Democrats are still running on three main themes you have empathy which you got personified in VP Biden you saw this in error, almost every address of how much Joe cares and will show you likes people understand people's needs. The next to them talk about competence, about how they say that Donald Trump has not handled things well on the Oval Office and that Joe Biden has done things will has been effective.

And then you got a longer thing the sort like the end of the disclaimer at the end of the used car commercials which you have the say it one half-time speed so you can hear all the fine print. Especially emphasize it will grow. Good governance can have higher taxes and regulations and stuff like that will care about that right now to slow for us this is that that's really interesting Rick because that was my impression as well right now and it seems like the message, at least for the convention was Donald Trump a bad man Joe Biden a good man. America all sorts of problems and it's only the wealthy who are doing well here and working to fix that. And that seemed to be really the extent of how deeply they went into public policy right you saw a few mentions of specific policies for vice presidents as well have a national mass wearing that were going to have a $15 an hour at least. Voyage you're going to see some changes in the way of energy policy is done he is not endorsed the green new deal, but he's endorsed something very close to it, at least as far as expanding rules, getting away from fossil fuels Genesee higher taxes on the wealthy get all the sorts of things are going to be part of the of the Biden Harris ticket in their in their platform now.

Again, the situation is as easy to say this when you're on the campaign trail is another thing entirely to get it done even if you had a Democratic Congress behind you.

Took Pres. Obama two years to get the affordable care act through Congress at great cost to his own party. As it turned out, but the it was a hard slog and so some of these things that the other the Democrats are talking about are quite quite complicated issues that other than just tax policy which are you going to actually go for that right out of the gate, especially middle the pandemic is it's going to be going on, no matter who was elected president in November. One imagines that in January 2020 or so that we deal with the some of the of the of the aftereffects or the continuing effects of of the pandemic. That's a lot on your plate and that's good be hard to accomplish.

And so that's why you do the laundry list of policy objectives doesn't seem to be that big. But even the ones that are out there going be hard to get into effect.

Rick it was billed as a unity convention done virtually for obvious reasons, and as you mentioned a lot about Joe Biden is sympathetic and that he's a good person and Donald Trump is a bad person. Is it unifying or was it damn optimistic enough considering that one of the key phrases and themes out of Joe Biden's speech was season of darkness, you know if that was a hard needle to thread that was a tough one to do and they I think that overall the message as much as possible was so was was from okay we are at a bad time to get better.

It's it's going to improve going to the something that the vice president is that many times on the stump, but before I'm to be the president of everybody, not just the base not to be bloated for me and you see that. I think what you also saw those and some of the of the moments that not by the principles. For instance, the that the bit that that was with the seven candidates who ran against Joe Biden and lost the Cory Booker for moderated what he called the survivor after show everyone been kicked off the island. I think that was was a script to the some of the others.

I think that came across as is barely entertaining if you can imagine that is out there were some uplifting bits but it largely yes it was a win a really tough time there's a bad person in charge right now the only way to get out of this is to kick him out have us in their attempt campaign is likely to continue talking about their view that Joe Biden is really a placeholder of sorts for a younger radical wing of the Democrat party I'm to that point, Congresswoman Alexandria Conseil Cortez of New York only had one minute 36 seconds.

That was her only exposure in this campaign tell us something calculated very calculated. This was the. The idea was America.

We've gone through a turbulent four years.

Let's bring back boring you know let's have lots not to have all these kids over here making all this noise in arousing all the travel lets us put the adults back in charge again that seem to be a lot that was going on that the talk was very, very centrist and moderate a lot of the actual policies are extremely progressive and quite the left of center, but they framed it in a way that made it sound very calming in the because it was done by videotape they can repurpose a lot of these things again and again and again on the campaign trail. Expect some ads to come out of that, most likely in this course will look forward to the debates and be fascinating. Carolina Journal of course covering all sorts of election related to races here in North Carolina you can find all of that Carolina Rick Anderson is the current chief think everything you say with this much more Carolina Journal radio to come in just a moment tired of fake names tired of reporters with political axes to grind. What you need to be reading Carolina Journal honest, uncompromising, old-school journalism, you expect and you need even better, the monthly Carolina Journal is free to subscribers sign up at Carolina.

You'll receive Carolina Journal newspaper in your mailbox each month. Investigations into government spending revelations about boondoggles. The powerful leaders are and what they're doing in your name and with your money. We shine a light on it all with the stories and angles. Other outlets barely cover but there's a bonus I print newspapers published monthly by our daily news site gives you the latest news each and every day lot onto Carolina once, twice, even three times a day. You won't be disappointed. It's fresh news if you'd like a heads up on the daily news sign up for our daily email do that Carolina Carolina Journal, rigorous, unrelenting, old-school journalism, we hold government accountable for you will connect Carolina Journal radio I Michiko guy the Covidien 19 pandemic is raising questions about North Carolina's housing supply the John Locke foundation tackled the topic in a recent online forum.

One participant Brentwood Cox. He's a full-time legislative staffer, but outside that role, he formed GMB Raleigh group interested in new development in the capital city. What Cox supports the notion that welcoming more neighbors won't make neighborhoods worse. Tremendous key to a lot of things. One, if you look at inequality greatest sources of inequality is wealth inequality and wealth is typically built open house a large middle class has most of their well into their single-family home is not change generation to generation until you fix that big part of what that means is having a variety of types of housing within neighborhoods so that people can move up the ladder first but I will do an apartment for a long time I was in college now Watertown Balboa single-family home and now we go to another single-family home and that's just as I've accumulated well throughout my career I've been able to move up and got married and we combined our assets all rest. That's a story of progress started getting up on the economic ladder and moving in until you have that other problems throughout your economy, politics, and people don't live together live in proximity to churches. Prejudice cannot overcome proximity and when you have people there living together. They find ways to work things out and some of the problems we see our current politics to be solved a lot if you could fix that issue.

What does Woodcock think about surveys that suggest more people would like to work from home, not in office they can in the future.

From a philosophical perspective, I just prefer freedom for people being free to make their own choices about where they want to live. They can be more disconnected from the job.

I think that actually will help is a big part of the problem is we have a lot of jobs are urban cores and then we have all the most expensive housing there as well and so then you have this lack of filtering effect and the other problem is had problem building density and that's really, usually mean it's usually about saying I want my neighborhood to change the primal normal human emotion. People live in places they like and they moved their curries and I don't want him to change only understand that but also think that there are housing market is going to change it has constantly change and evolve and change for the better change for the worse and that's all we have to have policymakers that are trying to direct in a positive direction of what about the role of neighbors and blocking new developments. Woodcock excessive thoughts about that topic you want to make sure that people have a say so in their government for sure.

You obviously want people to be the representatives. However, you don't want to how people dictate what happens on someone else's property. You want to make sure that you have rights extend to yourself new things that you and the negotiations that you have between developers and citizen sometimes product cost of housing is harder to build that way. And even if it's not outright and it becomes so difficult to navigate this red tape in this discussion with neighbors that essentially drive people out of the market and as they're trying to buy and you got people there at the bar around you just can't enter the market at all. That's Brentwood Cox, founder of GMB Raleigh group supporting new development in Raleigh.

He delivered his remarks during a recent online forum sponsored by the John Locke foundation what Cox discussed the potential negative impact of higher property taxes in the wake of covert, 19 you can't make housing more affordable by making it more expensive to pay your property tax bill just doesn't work. And so I think it is an impediment thing is folks that maybe a lot of their wealth is built up in the house.

Like I said a lot of folks in the middle class. It might be without a job now might be older on fixed income and that might be their biggest asset is property tax bill goes up.

It's the thing that's driving them out of apples so that there is a cap on that if you're going to have any kind of tax fairness. What does it take to reach these worthwhile housing goals different takes political change takes a group of people monitors as I started Raleigh's I felt like we are having a conversation with people talking past each other and a lot of politics. Like many cities across the country is very blue and that's fine. There's no problem with that.

But when folks are designed to offer affordable housing.

So my for better transit so having actual political debate needed to be happy in the debate was are we going to look at these market oriented solutions that we can open up supply we can deregulate that we can make sure that we have a healthy housing market, you know, when you talk about affordability.

I always sure and it is you're not paying more than 30% of your income for your housing every if you're not doing that you have something that's affordable. Problem comes you have a lot of income folks are lower income or middle income and their having to go above 30% because they're just not supply on the mark.

Then you don't have a healthy housing market you should have a housing market that is set up to serve the people who live in your if it doesn't serve people who live in your community stressing policy questions about also participating in the John Locke foundation's online forum on housing, Mark Zimmerman, senior vice president of North Carolina's realtors group. One of the issues that we touched on here though is is having available housing when people are coming to North Carolina North Carolina has for years had a net in migration. This is been a places a great place to live its economic engine and people are coming here. Those folks that that on on on Jell-O who are looking to get out of New York this may be accelerated by the pandemic, but that was going on before this. Unfortunately, our building has not kept pace. We have we have our supply has lagged year after year after year asking to be exacerbated by the situation right now and what that means is, is finding, especially in the urban and suburban areas that housing affordability is getting worse and worse.

We for a long time and are major metro areas had affordable housing issues low income housing just kinda requires subsidies of one form or another. What were seeing as it were headed down the path toward a lot of communities around the country on the West Coast and the Northeast where middle-class affordability is going to become a problem and wouldn't have to deal with that unless we change the local land use regulations to allow more density and more building in there. Unfortunately, the trend is been to add more regulation.

Zoning is very unfriendly to adding homes and options for housing and ironically that was the conversation. It was good to be at the top of our priority this year until the pandemic yet aborted have to get back to it. More people will probably come to North Carolina now now than that had been, which means those situations are targeted get worse particular, were most of the population lives. Zimmerman noted one of realtors biggest problems during the pandemic. We are fortunate governor included real estate is substantial real estate brokerage and so are our folks could operate that way in a safe manner, but unfortunately his order didn't sit supersede local government so we had well over a dozen communities, including the largest and the largest ones in the state would severely hamper the ability for people to list and show all and no consistency. A lot of arbitrary rules there a lot of battles across the state in order to get this back. I'm not for the realtors but for those folks who need to buy and sell for all the normal life reasons that has to happen. That's Mark Zimmerman of North Carolina realtors. One of the participants at a recent John Locke foundation forum on housing issues linked to covert, 19 will return with more Carolina journal radio in a moment. If you have freedom we got great news to share with you now. You can find the latest news, views, and research from conservative groups across North Carolina all in one place North Carolina it's one stop shopping.

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Be sure to designate us as the nonprofit you want to support. It's that easy. So now not only will you enjoy what you buy. You also support freedom. Don't forget log on to today, something nice and help defend freedom, help support the John Mark foundation back Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca the new president of the University of North Carolina, Peter Hans started his first day on the job with the message to the UNC community were facing a moment like no other in American higher education pandemic that has disrupted every aspect of our lives and work protests that speak to the ideals of our nation. An economic downturn that will deepen the value of our work also making it harder lives and livelihoods are under threat. All of us are under immense stress. Many are in grief the tests in front of us are daunting at this university was not billed for easy things.

It was built for the heart and were the work of public service and planning for the months ahead were asked to balance public health with our core mission of public education we must do right by her students while also protecting our communities and our colleagues. There are no easy answers to those tensions, but they mirror the complex challenges our entire society is facing right now and I think it's our duty to help chart a path forward.

I'll be here each and every day with an open heart, open mind, doing my best offer study stable leadership and support your best work we will encounter more than enough turbulence without creating any of our own. I'll be an effective and responsible advocate for funding and public support upholding this university's twin commitments to affordability and excellence.

And we all know that the cost of the degree has risen too far too fast. We got to change that is vital for our economy, our democracy and our culture. I worked to make higher education trusted accessible and relevant for the people of the state.

I'll embrace the public schools, community colleges and private institutions as full partners in our mission and I'll testify anywhere and everywhere. I can to the redemptive power of education because education is the most potent medicine we have for the health of our people and the surest route to shared prosperity, knowledge is the antidote for what ails us, whether it's a virus racism or an absence of opportunity, no matter who you are where you live, who you love what you look like, what you believe, where you came from. We are all imperfect and striving all linked by common fate. All deserving of respect and dignity. Those of the troops were called upon to defend that's Peter Holland's new president of the University of North Carolina system in a message to the UNC community will return with more Carolina journal radio where doubling down on freedom at Carolina journal radio were proud to bring you stories that impact your life and your wallet. And now get twice as much freedom when you also listen to our podcast headlock available on iTunes headlock is a little bit different. It's a no holds barred discussion that challenges softheaded ideas from the left and the right, like Carolina journal radio headlock is smart and timely but with headlock you'll hear more about the culture wars get some more humor as well. We guarantee great information and a good time double down with S. Listen to Carolina journal radio each week and listen to headlock to remember, you can listen to or subscriber download each week iTunes Carolina journal radio and headlock just what you need to stay informed and stay entertained both brought to you in the name of freedom by the John Locke foundation back Carolina journal radio I Mitch coca the Leandra court cases raised a number of important public policy questions over more than a quarter-century.

The case involves school systems try to get more funding from state government. During a recent online form for the John Locke foundation Jeanette Doran discussed the case.

She's president and general counsel at the North Carolina Institute for constitutional law for all to understand all my education is really not all dollars and execution clearly assigned to station there is no treasury plans regime eight law software quarter-century we really need to make sure that there is.

So now the essential constitutional issues really and yes you not as clear role of the legislature.

Doran says past court cases offer good guidance, we Hassan he saw where courts have ordered me stand as constitutional safe to assume legislation will install and come down the corridor towards to rewrite the case law is on point for Leandra case law that said court orders or learners and laws that they have now forced legislature contact so you simply need this back in terms of the law case. Even from just a few years where you once the core issues in order. All that's Jeanette Doran, president and CEO of the North Carolina Institute for constitutional law.

She speaking during a recent John lock foundation online for your insights. Leandra is one example of a troubling form of litigation is just one example is Asian will only see me seeing education policy and environmental we seen recently way he says there is lashing on this occurrence cannot achieve political process to friendly where he agencies to sale and reports orders that are said this is the only man part of this litigation is. The parties were this there is a description. The action list.

We seem exceedingly awesomely listed as responsible Gen. assembly is engaged in this litigation that is from the general class #say and Board of Education and always asking for more more more more more more as in this case for station really standing out in the taxpayers problem not just leasing way will cease all and environmental. This is just one example. This happens in terms of complexity and duration. Remember? Are districts to extract was in order. Station explicitly allows local government to see where some say she had a consultation requirement. We just constitutional firemen, children, and sufficient resources to try the opportunity for sound basic education so all this back to this is far now policy action.

Also containing the size Doran says her group plans to publicize the Leandra cases constitutional issues where certain nation where all constitutional architecture and not just education but also in Creation issues all play here and more complex under litigation, and certainly the current orders and crisis created by all this pleasure orders and basically shutting down economy. When $4.2 shortfall is needed even more complicate Doran says judges shouldn't try to dictate how the North Carolina Gen. assembly decides to spend money certainly set a dangerous precedent. We don't want to start where you really have you policy and trying to force this enormous $400 short order types you satisfy exactly which there you are a little concerned that the court discretion so that they can circumvent constitutional restrictions on which branch that's Jeanette Doran, president and General Counsel of the North Carolina Institute for constitutional law. She speaking at a recent online forum sponsored by the John Locke foundation, the topic, the long-running Leandra school funding lawsuit will return with more Carolina journal radio really influence you either have it or you don't and at the John lock foundation.

We have it, you'll find our guiding principles in many of the freedom forward reforms of the past decade here in North Carolina. So while others talk or complain or name call.

We provide research solutions and hope our team analyzes the pressing issues of the day jobs, healthcare, education, and more. We look for effective ways to give you more freedom, more options, more control over your life. Our goal is to transform North Carolina into a growing, thriving economic powerhouse envy of every other state. Our research is how policymakers make decisions that ensure you keep more of what you are.

Expand your choice of schools for your kids. Widen your job opportunities improve your access to doctors. The recipe for stability and a bright future for truth for freedom for the future of North Carolina. We are the John Locke foundation. Welcome back to Carolina journal radio Donna Martinez Hospital in Western North Carolina is now ground zero over whether or not nurses will unionize National nurses United, the nation's largest nurses union is hoping for a victory when the vote tally is announced in mid September. But if the union succeeds, it could be the start of a rejuvenated union movement in North Carolina. We are of course a right to work state and any victory of union should have folks concerned according to our next guest, Becky great is senior vice president with the John lock foundation. She has been following this union issue very closely. Writing about it. Carolina Becky welcome back to the shantytown is always first about let's clarify for everyone who's listening. What does it mean to be a right to work state which North Carolina is the first thing is we have a long, long tradition of being a right to work like this isn't anything new.

Discussed back generations and had its origins in the manufacturing that we did and the agribusiness that we did here North Carolina unit with the chicken processing plants with the furniture industry with the textile industry with all of the males in the mill workers in those kind of things. Always a strong tradition of workers having rights to be able to work as I want to know without the interference of unions. There have been efforts to unionize workers in North Carolina in the private sector for probably as long as we been a right to work state that no Killian's have very wisely said no to that and the reason why is because in those highly unionized states that we say unemployment is higher wages tend to be higher but the cost of everything else goes up as well and when you have collective bargaining with private note, the public sector workers then you're talking about your property taxes and taxes going way up his thighs. Things escalate so we just seen over the years. When you compare highly unionized states like New York, New Jersey, Illinois to low unionized state right to work states if you will, North Carolina, South Carolina.

We are at either depending on which way you do that ranking where either at the top or the bottom of anti-union pro-worker status and so another distinction is important to make with this too is there are public sector collective bargaining and that's where you have the North Carolina Association of educators here in North County.

We have seen increased union like activity. They have referred to themselves as a union over the last time several years. Teachers are public employees that would be that's called collective bargaining and in North Carolina. Collective bargaining is illegal. On the other hand, are another facet of this if you have unionization within the public's are the private sector and that's where a private company workers within a private company would unionize within just that company and that really is a workers contract kind of thing.

Think of it that way so the Western North Carolina situation with like a hospital there tell us which category that fits into, and what's happening. Okay that is a private sector unionization movement what happened. Donna is the mission hospital which serves the western part of North Carolina was bought in February 2019 by a large for-profit hospital company called HCA healthcare HCM HCA healthcare has hospitals around the US and in the UK, so they are a large operator. They came in and bought mission hospital. There are a few of those HCA hospitals where there are unionize that do have a union presence. I think it's maybe no dozen or so of those hospitals have this national nurses union, which is the largest nurses union in the country. So when they bought mission hospital which had never been unionized and not what I know you never thought about it, you know with that came this movement within some with some of the nurses. Some of the staff. They are to join the national nurses union and of course the national nurses union has come in to advocate and to try to organize these these nurses to unionize.

Now what we see with this as I've learned a lot about labor law and how these things work. I'm certainly not an expert, but the way these things work as they are is enough of a petition enough of the nurses which I would like to consider being a union and said they send out balance where the nurses actually vote as to whether or not they want to join the union and that those ballots are out now is bound to gone out and I will be returned by September 16 of that be counted on September 16 and I will know at that point whether or not the majority of the nurses at mission.

Now HCA healthcare want to be unionized on the issue in the red flag for me lies as we were watching this and seeing some of the news reports and you know how this was a vile thing they were people that were involved in this and by people I mean the union organizers and some of the nurses who are very pro union with this were saying our intent is to get a foothold mission hospital and then we intend to grow and unionize in hospitals all across North Carolina so this would essentially be what's the phrase that the camel's nose and under the tent here. If this succeeds, and by no means is this a done deal. There is a group that is opposed to the idea group of nurses opposed to the idea of unionizing in their hospital.

What are their their main arguments against the union effort that we sing with union activity in other states is on the union's collect dues from their members and unite the premise says that his dues will be used to protect their rights and advocate for them what we've seen in other states and historically what we sing with this is the union collects duties and then they began to sponsor very progressive ideas incentive very involved politically. Now we sing here in North Carolina we sing that influence of union money coming in over the last several elections and like any group that you have a mean if you're if you're part of a nurses group. You may be neutral, politically or unite the conservative political Lane leaning nurse on you come in your days are used for their intent to advocate for very progressive and in many cases just radical ideas that that the union support inside that's you know that's one of the concerns. The other thing is the union's have been rife with corruption, with all kinds of problems that we say nothing of using the money not the way that it certainly was intended to be used on and I think that one reason why North Carolina is being targeted is number one. As you mentioned at the beginning of this we've always been a right to work state.

Many of us think will win a union statement so there's nothing to worry about here. What we sing of the last several decades is as people are leaving is highly unionized, highly tax date and moving to North Carolina this a different culture that's begun to minivan and to thank me. Many of these people. He affects right here on our John Locke foundation staff who have come from other parts of the country. His family members were union members over the years and said you know where we North Carolina. Those of us that have been here longer seem to think you not meet the right to work is what makes sense to us.

That's what our culture is.

But as we have people moving in from other parts of the country, which by the way they're moving to North Carolina because not just because our beautiful coastline in our mountains, but also because the cost of living and the taxes and the freedoms and the right to work that we have here, but they're bringing with them that culture of unions are not a big deal. You know it's always been a part think they just accept it so that's part of what were saying with this mid September is when the vote will be tallied in western North Carolina and it will determine whether or not this effort by the major nurses union in the country to unionize is successful or not, we can have you back on at that point Becky thank you very much. Thank you. That's all the time we have for the program this week. Thank you for listening on behalf of Mitch I am Donna Martinez hope you'll join us again next week for another edition. Carolina Journal radio Carolina Journal radio is a program of the job.

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