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Christmas Book Citations Lorenzo Snow Part 2

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever
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July 6, 2020 12:33 am

Christmas Book Citations Lorenzo Snow Part 2

Viewpoint on Mormonism / Bill McKeever

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July 6, 2020 12:33 am

This is our 15th week of a series focusing on books given away to other general authorities and church employees by the First Presidency between 1981 to 2017. If the First Presidency thought these books were worthy of being reprinted using expensive leather covers and gilded pages, they must be reliable and worthy to be … Continue reading Christmas Book Citations Lorenzo Snow Part 2 →


.1 examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. So glad you could be with us for this additional viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson my colleague RM yesterday we began looking at the book, the teachings of Lorenzo Snow. The fifth president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This was a book that was given away as a Christmas gift for Christmas of 2012 by the first presidency, and as I mentioned yesterday, of course, Lorenzo Snow is famous for what's known as the Lorenzo Snow couplet in the first chapter is to could say, dedicated entirely to that couplet and so that's what were looking at and as I said yesterday also. I apologize to our regular listeners because it's not the first time that we have talked about the Lorenzo Snow couplet, but it is unimportant doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and I think it's important that we examine carefully what is written in this book, and maybe that will help us better understand why the first presidency felt that this was an important book to give away to other general authorities and some employees of the LDS church in 2012.

But before we dive into our subject today, Eric. We got a special going on for our listeners who choose to want to help out our radio ministry. Now this special offer that they might like to consider for a generous gift of any size. We will send you a PDF. A copy of Bill's book in their own words, which is a compile relation of LDS citations.

That's about 400 pages in length.

All you need to do is go to go to the donate button on the right side of the top main page and then put in your amount in the added note section. If you would do us a favor and put the letters PDF and then provide your radio station call letters or if you listen on podcast just mention the state where you live, we will send you an electronic copy of Bill's compile quotes in their own words in 100% of the guests will go to our radio ministry. Yesterday we were talking about how the book began. It begins be as great as you want to be and we were discussing this. Should that really be a goal for a New Testament Christian greatness.

Not that were saying that you shouldn't be as good as you can possibly be at what you do. I don't have any problems with that. But to be great.

What kind of images are conjured up when you talk about being great. It almost always seems to imply people looking up to.

You are paying homage to you. You might even say, and I'm wondering is that really a goal that New Testament Christian should be seeking but apparently Clyde Williams, the man who edited this book and compiled all these quotations didn't seem to have a problem with putting this at the very beginning on page 1 Clyde Williams as we said yesterday was a BYU professor going on on page 1 at the bottom of the page after Lorenzo Snow describes this couplet that he came up with. He says the spirit of God was on me in a marvelous manner. All that day and I stored that great truth away in my mind I felt that I had learned something that I ought not to communicate to others. That's an interesting thought. You feel that you just been revealed. This amazing doctrine, but at the same time you also feel that you ought not to communicate it to others. Now why would you think that I think it's because this idea that Lorenzo Snow has come up with in this couplet would probably be understood to be very offensive to many people. Since many of the converts to the LDS church at this time.

Naturally came from a Christian background, they might find that problematic. Just as I hope Christians today would find this Lorenzo Snow couplet to be problematic, but then on page 2. He cites the last portion of the couplet as God now is man may be and then Lorenzo Snow goes on continuing the story that he begins on page 1 speaking about father Smith now father Smith would be Joseph Smith Junior's Father Joseph Smith, Senior, who was the patriarch of the church at that time. What does it say on page 2. Eric now. I have told you what father Smith said to me that I should become as great as I could want to be even as great as God himself. About two years and 1/2 later in Naboo. I asked Elder Sherwood to explain a certain passage of Scripture and while he was endeavoring to give an explanation.

The spirit of God fell upon me to a marked extent, and the Lord revealed to me just as plainly as the sun at noon day. This principle which I put in a couplet as man now is God once was as God now is man may be that fulfilled father Smith's declaration. Nothing was ever revealed more distinctly and that was to me that this was recorded in the desert evening news, because on page 2. It gives the references Desiree evening news, July 20, 1901, page 22 to fill in some of the gaps I want to cite for you. The improvement Era which was a periodical put out by the LDS church. This one happened to be printed in June 1919 its page 656 that we want to look closely at now.

This is a rendition of the story that Eric just read. But this is put together by Lorenzo Snow's son. A man by the name of Lee Roy Snow. This is what he says and this was printed on page 656 of the improvement Era. In June 1919, in the spring of 1840, just before leaving on his first mission to England.

Lorenzo Snow spent an evening in the home of his friend Elder H. G.

Sherwood, Eric read that name, but it doesn't give you any background as to who he is. Hg Sherwood that stands for Henry garlic Sherwood garlic is spelled G a RLIK was born 1785 and died in 1867 Hg Sherwood was a member of the Naboo high Council. He was also the Naboo city marshal so he's not just anybody in the town of Nauvoo LeRoy Snow goes on to say.

Elder Sherwood was endeavoring to explain the parable of the Savior about the husbandmen who set forth servants at different hours of the day to labor in the vineyard while thus engaged in thought.

This most important event occurred, as told by Pres. Snow and this is similar to the rendition that Eric read about as he was attentively listening to Elder Sherwood's explanation, the spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me the eyes of my understanding were open and I saw it as clear as the sun at noon day with wonder and astonishment. The pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation as it was shown to me and explains father Smith's dark saying to me at a blessing meeting in the Kirtland Temple. Prior to my baptism.

As previously mentioned in my first interview with the patriarch as man now is God once was as God now is man may be he goes on to explain the story. He said I felt this to be a sacred communication which I related to no one except my sister Eliza until I reached England when in a confidential private conversation with Pres. Brigham Young in Manchester.

I related to him this extraordinary manifestation. Soon after his return from England in January 1843 Lorenzo Snow related to the prophet Joseph Smith.

His experience in Elder Sherwood's home. This was a confidential interview in Naboo. The prophets reply was quote brother Snow that is true gospel doctrine and it's a revelation from God to you." So if it's a revelation from God to Lorenzo Snow and it is a true gospel doctrine and again were being given the impression that this is Joseph Smith using that kind of a description when it comes to this couplet. Why wouldn't you think that it would be a part of the LDS church today.

Of course it would be when you think about it's one of the foundational teachings of Mormonism not perhaps quite as important as the great apostasy, but certainly very very important.

Now I know that Mormons don't like to talk about the first part of the couplet as man now is God once was. They don't usually go into a lot of detail as to what they think God was like before he became God.

They just want to give you the impression that he wasn't always God. So when a Mormon tells you that they believe in the eternal God, as it says in article 1 of the articles of faith, you might ask them to explain that to you because there's no way according to what Joseph Smith teaches regarding the person of God the father that he was always God because he was, as you see in this couplet as well. He was once a man like he could not be the eternal God of the Bible the claim to fame for Lorenzo Snow would be what's called a Lorenzo Snow couplet and yes it was taught way back, but it's also taught here in this 2012 book that was given away as a Christmas gift to the general authorities and to employees of the church, but at that same time in 2012, the whole church was studying the book teachings of Presidents of the church.

George Albert Smith the eighth president of the church. This couplet is taught in that book and then the following year in 2013 in teachings or presence of the church, Lorenzo Snow, it again appeared in the manual.

So we need to say this is in the past decade. This is recent and up-to-date and if it was not meant to be.

It would be wrong for the church to have given away a book like this or put it into their church manuals and I would totally agree with that. Eric and so whenever I hear of any Latter Day Saints trying to fudge on this as if well well we don't really believe that it's hard for me to understand unknowledgeable Latter Day Saints making a statement like that because most of them do tend to believe that exultation is also becoming a God that would make perfect sense if the Lorenzo Snow couplet is a truism which many Latter Day Saints do believe it is occasionally are going to find some Latter Day Saints that struggle with this. All you need to do is just walk them through that if Joseph Smith himself said to Lorenzo Snow, as recorded in the improvement Era.

In June 1919.

Brother Snow that is true gospel doctrine and it is a revelation from God to you and how can a Latter Day Saints assume otherwise. I don't know how they can just reject that in light of statements like this one more quote comes from the desert semiweekly news from October 30, 1984.

Quoted in this book, page 2 it says this, the knowledge that was communicated to me.

I am bracing this couplet, he lists the couplet and he and he says it was preached a few years after that. At least the prophet Joseph taught this idea to the 12 apostles bill if Joseph Smith taught this to the 12 apostles wooden, the latter-day St. need to say that this is authoritative. You would. I would think absolutely we've got to make a clarification years, not Joseph Smith. Teaching to the 12 apostles in the Gospels, that's for sure.

No, these are more modern apostles that are found only in the LDS church so clearly, folks, this is a doctrine of the LDS church to this very day. If you hear anyone say it's not you might wish to kindly correct them on that assumption. Thank you for listening.

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