Everything Focus on the Family has to offer all in one place. Just download the Focus on the Family app. You'll have access to our entire library of resources to help your family thrive in Christ, like Adventures in Odyssey, informative articles, and over a dozen podcasts, as well as free marriage and parenting assessments. Download the Focus on the Family app today for free at your app store or at focusonthefamily.com/slash app. That's focus on the family.com slash app.
I thought I used to worry when my kids were little. And then I had teenagers. Oh my. I never- Realized how annoying I was until I gave birth to a mini me and started arguing with her as a preteen. The scariest part of raising teens is remembering all the dumb things I did at that age.
Well, every parent of a teenager can probably relate to those comments. And if you've got a preteen growing up in your family, get ready. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and we're so glad you've joined us today. You know, John, we have so much great content for parents of littles, parents of preteens, parents of teens.
And man, there is some good stuff. But it takes a little bit of getting used to in that parenting role to know where to go. What do I do? I mean, it's preteens are a tough moment, too. There are challenges around every corner, it seems.
Yes. I remember first day of school. What was your first day of school like? Were you dung-ho as a kindergartner? I wouldn't go.
I didn't want to go. What was the reluctance?
Well, I just, I liked home.
Okay.
Well, I was the firstborn who wanted to go out into the world and conquer the little mat and the chocolate milk we had. You liked the chocolate milk. I did, yeah.
Well, we haven't talked a lot about those in-between kids, but we're going to do that today, the nine- to 12-year-old space. They're not little kids anymore. They're kind of beginning to get their independence and find their way. And, you know, a lot of parents, it's time to buckle up because the teens are around the corner and they're really going to stretch the independence at that point. But it's a good thing.
It's a God-given thing. And they're trying to figure out who am I and what's my identity.
So this is a time for the parents to really put the pedal down and help them to find their identity. And we have two great guests to help us do that today. Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery have a lot of experience between the two. Tricia has been on this program a number of times. She's a speaker, author, and podcast host and has 10 kids.
So Tricia has raised several pre-teen. Teens along the way. She speaks with experience and authority. And Leslie is also an author and a speaker and is the co-founder of Teach Them Diligently, which provides gospel-centered homeschooling events and resources and has four children. And together, these ladies have written a book that is so good.
It's got lots of great insights. It's called Faith That Sticks: Five Real-Life Ways to Disciple Your Preteen. And we've got copies of that book, of course, here at the ministry. Just stop by the show notes for all the details. Tricia, welcome back.
And Leslie, welcome for the first time.
Well, thank you so much for having me. Good to have you here.
Okay, let's get right into it. Preteen, it's kind of the eye-rolling. Moment of parenting where the kids are going, whatever. I remember Troy, he wasn't doing this disrespectfully because he was being kind of playful when he did it. I said, Hey, can you get the garbage and take it out?
He goes, For those on YouTube, you can see it's like the W with your fingers and then E, whatever. And I was like, yeah, that's not going to apply. A little bit edge. I mean, it was done and fun, and I loved it. But this is the point where you get the snorts and the grunts and the.
Whoa, right? Absolutely. And they go from like sometimes these sweet little kids that love being around you and just want you to read stories to them. And suddenly they're rolling their eyes and you don't know what you're talking about and you're not cool anymore. And drop me off and I will walk to the front door because they don't want you to get too close to the building so people will see you.
Drop me off a block from school. Yeah, a block from school or a block from wherever youth group, wherever they're at.
Now I would be the parent to go, oh, okay, boom, right up to the curb, beeping the horn with the windshield wipers on. If you go to the day, sometimes I'm like rolling down the window. Bye, honey. I love you. Yeah, I mean, that's part of it.
A lot of growth happens during those pre. I mean, those, it is a transition phase. I remember, you know, this is maybe a little off balance. That's where you notice your first chest hair, maybe.
Something weird is happening to your body. It's the start of becoming a young adult, right? Describe what's going on for these nine to 12-year-olds. Oh, there's, you know, there's so much development that's going on at this time. And a lot of it is not really what us as parents would expect.
We talk a lot about the hormones and the body changes and stuff like that. But the most impactful part of their development during this time is actually what's going on in their brain. They have two really important things happening. Number one, their limbic system, which, you know, everyone knows about the limbic system, right? Yes.
Absolutely. I'm not even going to guess. The limbic system is responsible for the emotional charges that they get, the reactions and like all of this stuff. It's a grand thing. It is in overdrive.
During this time, so you've got that happening, but then their prefrontal cortex part of their brain that really helps them judgment, yeah, judgment manage those emotions, manage those reactions. That's just getting started, and it won't be developed until they're in their 20s.
So, you've got the limbic ramping up, so you've got high emotions, anger. You know, you've seen it, we see what's going on with the limbic system, but we don't see anything happening with the rationale, the judgment. That's not coming along yet.
So, we see this in our kids, and it really, I think, makes a lot of parents very fearful because you don't know what has eaten this sweet little child and turned them into this really reactionary preteen. That's a good observation. But knowing it going in as a parent is really important to know. Absolutely. These are the things that are going to be happening and be ready for it.
So, you're not, so you're not working out of your limbic system.
Well, exactly. This was the one thing that I really wish that I had known when my kids were younger because I feel like you know, in 1 Peter 3, where it tells husbands to live with wives with understanding. I think as parents, we need to do that with our kids as well. And so, getting to know what's really going on with them during this stage of their development will help you parent them so much better. That's good.
Now, on top of that, let's throw in social media. Yeah, just for fun. Tricia, this is such a you know, it's probably the number one parenting issue that we get contacted here at Focus on the Family to get input on. How do you manage that as a parent? What are your observations?
It's so difficult because my oldest is 36, my youngest is 14.
So, I feel like I've raised two different generations of children.
So, the first that they were finally kind of getting into my space, but it was very. You're kind of on it, but it wasn't controlling your life. You weren't aware of everyone all the time. And these younger kids, even if we hold off, so they can't even get cell phones until they're 14 and they can only communicate with us.
Social media comes at 15, but we're monitoring everything. And that's just choices for our family. Every family has different choices. But everybody. Everywhere they go, whether it's at church, at camp, at homeschool co-ops, people are just so connected on social media or with cell phones or with texting that they never get time to escape and just really figure out who they are because they're just comparing themselves to other people.
And then there's predators and all those types of things. And so it's really hard. And this generation truly is harder than even the previous generation. I know, because I've had kids in both. And I really am sympathetic for today's parents who are trying to juggle all this.
Yeah. This idea of identity is so critical. I mean, as Christians, that's one of the core things. In pre-teen and certainly teen, they're developing a Sense of identity, who they are, what they believe, et cetera. The goal for us as Christian parents, obviously, is to pass that faith on to the next generation.
But these core things are being developed. Your daughter, I think, as a preteen had a volleyball experience. What happened with that? Yeah, my youngest daughter actually has taught me a lot through the years, but she has. Had a lot of benefits of being the youngest of four.
So she, she got to learn all the things much earlier. And so by the time she was playing volleyball in sixth, seventh, eighth grade in that middle school era, she was way ahead of where everyone else was and got all the accolades and all the cheers and that sort of thing. And that really, I didn't realize it at the time until we talked when she was a little older, but that had become just very much her identity. That's how she saw herself. And she will tell you now that had become an idol to her.
That was all she cared about. And one day towards the middle of the season, they were doing warm-ups. It was just a freak accident. She broke her finger and was out for the rest of that season. And I mean, she was devastated, just absolutely devastated.
And it was largely because, as you told me later on, She didn't know who she was going to be if she couldn't be out there on the volleyball court. And she's in hindsight, she was very grateful for that because that broke that that wasn't her identity anymore. She had to figure out who she really was. And she realized through all of that, again, to her own, this is her own testimony that I'm sharing. She realized who she was in Christ instead of just looking at who she was on the court.
And God used that to teach her a pretty amazing lesson as a seventh grader. But that's really indicative of how easy it is to get wrapped up in what others see of you and what others think of you during that time because that's really all you've got. You know, you've written the book now, Faith That Sticks.
So parents are going, okay, how do you make it stick? In that regard, Tricia, I mean. In those areas of identity, what are some things you can do to say, okay, this will help my child better understand why they were created? And you begin planting those seeds at about that age because they're cognitively capable of understanding these things now. And that's the important part.
We need to take time for these things. And things we talk about are Bible reading and prayer and relationships and conversations and then community service. And some of our kids we adopted as preteens.
So one was 11, and then we had 13-year-old twins and a 15-year-old.
So we were getting them from their identity of first being in foster care, then unworthy. And they had had a failed adoption right before us. And, you know, then all of a sudden, homeschooling mom, we're going to sit around and read the Bible. And they're like, What are you doing? But they had come kind of with their identity formed that they aren't worth anything, that people have passed them over again and again.
And as we sat there and read God's word, and at first they would, I'm like, just put your heads down. You just have to listen. You don't have to listen to. Have to interact. Pretty soon they started getting engaged with God's Word and realizing that God had a purpose for them, a plan for them.
And it was so amazing to see that God's Word was that seed that really made them see who they are and how important they were. They were in the bigger plan of things. And I think so many times we think during the age they don't want to. They don't want to sit there and do family devotions. They don't want to sit there and do a Bible study or pray with their family.
This is so dumb. Why would I have to do this? But if we're diligent, those seeds will take. Root as they get older. And we've seen that in our girls' lives.
Wow, that's it. I mean, that's a great concept. Read the word over your kids. Yeah. You know, and it doesn't have to be in a tough way.
Troy, my youngest, is still into it. I mean, we could say, hey, you want to just read the word tonight? And we're right now going through Galatians. And he's really into it. Trent, a little more active.
Yeah. Yeah, maybe later, Dad. I mean, you know, so just kind of the two different perspectives. But as a parent, just do it. I mean, because it is so good for them to hear that identity, especially those areas of the New Testament where God is speaking love over them and his unconditional love for them.
I mean, what preteen teen doesn't want to hear that? God really unconditionally loves me? And relating to people in the Bible.
So we were reading through the Psalms and, you know, David is so emotional. I am but a worm, not a man. And I'm quite emotional. And I'm like, see, he's emo too. Yeah.
Like, look, it's just like you guys when you're rolling your eyes and this is the worst day ever. David wrote it down. But then at the end, he's like, but I will praise God. And they would just laugh. And so kind of seeing that people in the Bible were real, their emotions were real, they don't have to hide their emotions.
They're going to be emotional. But. They can also see that God is there and they can turn to Him, even though I feel like I'm in the darkest pit right now, which some of them. Battled depression. I mean, there's so many things in our past.
They can still turn to God. Leslie, in fact, you shared a story about your son having kind of an emotional moment as a preteen where he felt a lot of pressure. I think Troy had that moment as well where he thought he could only make A's. And I remember just saying to him, you know, it's okay if you don't make an A. And he just.
He exhaled and said, really? Oh, of course. I mean, we want to aim for doing great work, but if you get a B or C, I mean, I get it. And we'll work together to strengthen that. But, you know, let's just don't feel you have to do that.
And it really, you know, changed his perspective in the area of stress. Yeah. Well, you know, our kids, like we were talking about earlier, there's so much changing. They are becoming aware of people outside of themselves, which, you know, they really didn't have that kind of awareness when they were much younger. And so, so, yeah, when I saw a lot with my boys, I think I just wasn't expecting the emotions that pour out of preteen boys because I've never was one, didn't have a brother.
So that kind of shocked me more. But yeah, there was one time when my son, I caught him red-handed with something in a lie. He just broke down. I don't know why I'm so wicked and evil. And just, you know, so just the guilt.
And so many parents talk about how their preteen struggles. With such guilt. And it really just broke my heart. And I was able to sit down and talk to him. At the time, about just different things that were going on inside of him and how Jesus loves him anyway.
And I thought as I walked away from there, how grateful I am that I was the one who was able in his emotional state when he was so unsettled and so vulnerable, I was able to get in closer to him, to wrap my arms around him, reassure him of my love, his place in our family, and most importantly, that he is fearfully and wonderfully made and that God knows and loves him.
So when parents withdraw during this stage of their kid's life, because of all the things we talked about earlier, you know, the kids don't want us around and blah, blah, blah. When we withdraw, we're really opening the door for someone else to speak into their life instead of taking that opportunity that God has given us and using that platform, which is so powerful in this stage. Tricia, let me ask you this. I saw a survey a while back. It said that 80% of children said that they're most influenced by their.
Parents, not their friend network. You would think it'd be the opposite. 20% of parents would have that position. But 80% of teens said, and preteens said, parents had the most influence in their life. That's a great thing.
But like you said a moment ago, it's intimidating. And Tricia, you mentioned in the book how critical it is to ask questions, not lecture. For some reason, when they're four, five, six, we do get into the lecture mode and we delay getting out of that mode too long sometimes. And it's the old Charlie Brown, what kids hear is wah, wah, wah, wah. And what is effective is questions.
So elaborate on the art and the skill of developing good questions for your kids. And I think when we see stuff up, we will freak out. We will think we need to give them the lecture information. And first of all, they're feeling insure. If they hear something, their emotional brain is peaked and then their thinking brain is off.
Asking questions will get them in their thinking brain. But we had experience with one of our daughters came up, I was just in the kitchen, I was cooking, and she goes, I think I'm bisexual. And I said, No, you're not. And she's like, Wow, you got to be on your toes? Yeah, exactly.
Well, with all of them, they're just going to come up with stuff and you just have to be prepared. Especially today. Especially today. And I said, No, you're not. She goes, Well, why do you say that?
I said, You talk about cute boys all the time. But this is where it turns around. Instead of me just going, let's sit down with the Bible. Let's talk about what God's word says. Let's talk about identity.
I said, Why do you think that? And she goes, Well, I think girls are pretty. I'm like, All girls think girls are pretty. You go to some church and you see someone's hair and dress, you're like, She looks pretty today. It doesn't mean you have to be sexually attracted to them.
But then, you know, so is anything going on? Is people are people talking to you? We started digging into it. And this was the time in her life, she only had her cell phone number. She didn't have social media, her only cell phone number was available to family members.
Well, they had an older sister that had an age out of foster care that we did not adopt.
So she was already adult when we adopted her four siblings, and that sister had her number.
Well, that sister had given her number to an older girl who was making advances on our preteen. Kind of grooming her. Grooming her. And because I was not sitting down lecturing her, don't do this. I started asking questions.
We started also being curious about why is she saying this now? This is very uncharacteristic. And so then when we found, thank you for this, all the software that shows you what's on your kids' phones. We found these conversations. We were able to let her know.
We're going to call the police. I mean, we're going to, you know, get this is an adult, 19-year-old, grooming, she was 15 at the time. And, you know, We were able to talk to our daughter about what was appropriate. And years later, she thanked us for that. I mean, at the time, she's upset.
You're looking at my phone, but I think she was also relief there. And also, years later, when one of her younger sisters said, I think I'm bisexual, she turned around, she was in the front seat, turned around, no, you're not. You think boys, she was repeating what I had said. And so, I think so many times we immediately, I mean, our chest tightens up, we freeze, we're worried, we're thinking worst-case scenarios 20 years from now, all the things. And instead, just in the moment, what is going on and asking questions can help us dig deeper into what's really going on with our kids.
Maybe they're seeing something on TV or social media or friends from school. One of our other daughters had a distant family member said, You should be a lesbian because it's really fun. And, you know, so she's just another, another middle schooler. And my daughter came and told us.
So they're getting stuff even from people we think are safe or family. Or they would be looking out for them. Protecting them. But what you're describing in the bigger context is how to have a relationship with your preteen that becomes the critical part of that. You know, in some Christian particularly Christian parents are going to say, I'm laying the law down.
It's black and white. As long as you're under my roof, you know, all the clichés. But I'm telling you, the core thing in all of that is relationship. I mean, that's what the Lord does with us and for us is relationship is what he wants. We're not going to live perfectly.
He's still going to love us and guide us and correct us. And we have to have that similar attitude in our parenting, I believe. And so the key to that is maintaining that relationship. And I love your response.
So quick. No, you're not. I mean, this is such a right parenting thing to say. And then help them better understand what they're going through. And I think that the bigger question here is just being a sponge.
They're so influenced by everything and everybody that they need that reassurance of what am I and who am I again? And we could be too flippant as parents not to realize this is formulation time. They're trying to figure that out. Tricia, you mentioned in the book that parents need to be humble and authentic about their mistakes.
Now, this can be really hard. I mean, this, and you've got to be wise as to what you're saying. At what time. You don't want to say to a four-year-old, you know, this is how I stumbled as a teenager. But give us some examples of how you can do that effectively as a parent.
In some ways, you're earning their trust because you're being real. I think so many. Contacts we get here at Focus, you know, the Christian home. Again, we're trying to be perfect, and kids struggle with that. They know in their heart they're not perfect, right?
And yet, and they know we need to be. Yeah, I was going to say, there's nothing like the walls of the family. Everybody knows everybody, and they know your weaknesses as well. But speak to that idea of authenticity as a parent so that the children can see that and say, okay, I need to be like that. And it's so hard sharing our mistakes.
I was, you know, sexually active as a teen. I had an abortion when I was 15, which is something I really regret. And then my son, I had him when I was 17, my oldest son.
So they knew pretty much when they're younger, like, wait, why is Corey in your wedding photo? You know, because he was a baby when I ended up marrying the pastor's son after I rededicated my life to God, which I love that God brought me John after my boyfriend was gone.
So they knew kind of that I had Corey as a teenager. Did you share this with them as preteens? I had to because, you know, they were asking questions. We had a wedding photo. Corey was in it.
Why is our older brother in your wedding photo?
So, how did you turn what I, you know, I'll gently call your mistakes into teachable moments that they then. Begin to share with others. Absolutely. Yeah. So then, but the abortion part was harder.
Yeah. But I helped start a crisis pregnancy center in Calisbel, Montana when we lived up there. And I was going to be speaking in front of our church. And my kids were all preaching, like right around the preteen age. And I knew everyone at church is going to be hearing this.
I don't want them to hear from someone else that I had an abortion. They knew about the teen pregnancy.
So on the way to church, this is like me waiting till the last minute. Like, I don't want to have to tell them this. This is what I'm going to be talking about today. I probably even had to describe what abortion was and that I really regretted my mistakes, that I know God has forgiven me. And they were so like, mommy, I'm so sorry.
We love you. And they were so tender with me because I was humble and I'm like, you know. when we don't have God in our lives, we kind of make these mistakes. And I'm so thankful that God has forgiven me. And then later, because they were with me at the Crisis Pregnancy Centers, they were with me as I was mentoring teen moms that they understood the value of serving those so they will not make the choice of abortion.
And later, I remember coming back from one event, our youth pastor said, your daughter tonight was at a youth gathering and all these teens were like, I'm pro-choice and everyone has a choice. And my daughter started just with a small group, said, let me tell you about my mom's story. And pretty soon the whole room of 30 people are sitting there listening to her tell about my pain and regret and shame of all these years. And then they're like, I never thought about it that before.
So because she heard my story, even though it was easy to share, she was able to share with other people kind of my experiences. And I think what kids need is our humility and hearing our mistakes. And they will know when I'm telling. You something is because I've been there. I understand the pain.
Not that you're going to always make the right decisions, but if I can help you make better decisions, then that's what I want to do.
Well, that's how we concluded our conversation with Tricia Goyer and Leslie Nunnery on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and Jim, I think we got some great ideas about parenting preteens from our guests today. Absolutely, we did. And here's the message for moms and dads: Buckle up. This is an exciting time for you and your family.
And we want to equip you to parent those kids well. And we've got this great book from Tricia and Leslie, Faith That Sticks: Five Real Ways to Disciple Your Preteen. And if you can send a gift of any amount to Focus on the Family today, we'll get the book out to you right away as our way of saying thank you for partnering with us in ministry. We've also got our age and stage resources, which is a wonderful way for you to connect with Focus. You simply enter in your contact details, the ages of your children, and we're going to send you weekly updates and emails that are relevant to parenting that age of your child.
And that'll take you from 0 to 18. And it's probably one of the best things that we're doing here at Focus on the Family to help you as a parent. And it's completely free. That's right. And you can sign up for the free Agent Stage e-newsletter.
We've got the details in the show notes or give us a call if you'd like. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family. And let me add, we've mentioned this a few times here in August as we close our fiscal year. The summer months tend to be a bit lean financially, and we could really use your support right now as we end that budget year. Our research shows that only 1% of the listeners and viewers of the program have donated to the ministry.
And thanks to your generosity for that 1%, we've been able to impact more than 660,000 parents with resources and practical help for their kids. But there's so much more we could do together, and I want to invite you to help us move that needle up to 2% or 3% or even more. Please consider a generous gift. A one-time gift is great. Or you can sign up monthly.
But help us help others. Let's do this for the kingdom of Christ. Yeah, your donation today can be made over the phone, 800, the letter A in the word family. That's 800-232-6459. Or it's pretty easy to donate online, and we've got the link in the show notes.
Yeah. Well, coming up tomorrow, a really powerful testimony from Sheila Walsh. He said, Sheila. The shepherd knows where to find you. And that one Moment.
began the most amazing adventure of my life. Of discovering the love of God is never based on our performance, it is based on the finished work of Christ. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your marriage can be redeemed even if the fights seem constant, even if there's been an affair, even if you haven't felt close in years.
No matter how deep the wounds are, you can take a step toward healing them with a hope-restored marriage-intensive. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face challenges together. We'll talk with you, pray with you, and help you find out which program will work best. Call us at 1-866-875-2915.
