Ministering to the Spiritually Blind

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. So how do we minister the gospel and minister truth to those who are spiritually blind? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on The Line of Fire.

And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. It's been on my mind a lot, especially in recent weeks, as I continue to interact with people that do not seem to be hearing what's being said. I'm talking about on cultural issues, I'm talking about on spiritual issues, I'm talking about just trying to communicate truth. It's not a matter of having differences. It's a matter of speaking to people, and it seems that the words you're saying are not penetrating.

They're not even registering, so there can be a response. How do we help those who are spiritually blind? How do we minister the gospel to those who don't have ears to hear, don't have eyes to see, and yet we are seeking to communicate with them? How do we communicate effectively when it comes to cultural issues, where the passions are so high, the entrenched beliefs so deep on either side?

How do we avoid just hitting each other like walls or passing each other like ships in the night? Michael Brown, welcome to The Line of Fire as we are here to infuse you with faith and truth and courage, friends. A healthy church starts with a healthy you. Spirit, mind, soul, body, that's where to help you be as healthy as you can, thriving as you can be. Whether you're a pastoring in the inner city, whether you're homeschooling kids, whether you are a social media influencer or university professor, whether you are a retired person kind of slowing things down at home or a student in the university, we want to do our best to help you, to equip you, to stand with you as a resource to say, hey, we're on the side of truth. Hey, God is with us.

And light shines in darkness and darkness does not overcome it. So I want to be practical, as always, encouraging, but realistic and practical today. If you'd like to interact with me on anything I'm saying or if you have any question about any subject having anything to do with material we cover on The Line of Fire, the number to call is 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. That is the number to call. I'll be taking calls a little later in the show, so now's a great time to call and get on our phone lines. And then if you just wait a little while, I'll be getting to your calls a little bit later in the broadcast.

But now is a great time to call. All right. I want you to consider something with me. We're going to look at a few verses, but I was I was meditating on this earlier today and I want you to consider this with me. If you're a follower of Jesus, if you believe that we must be born from above to enter the kingdom of God, if you believe that we as human beings are incapable of saving ourselves, then you would say, yes, human beings are fallen. Some of you, even with other belief systems, might say there's no question we're fallen.

And the reason we say fallen is that there are things within us of high moral value. There are things within us that recognize standards and rights and wrongs. And yet there's another part of us that does what's wrong anyway. We recognize this is wrong and yet we do it.

There's a certain conflict there. Or we might judge others for doing a particular thing, but then justify ourselves and we think, well, that's a little hypocritical there. And what it's due to is the fact that we're all created in the image of God and that image of God is still within us as human beings. But because of our flesh, there has been a corruption of that image. Because of our fallen nature, we often know what's right but don't have the capacity to do what's right. Okay, why do I say that? Because from a New Testament perspective, people outside of Jesus are dead spiritually.

It doesn't mean that they are non-functional, it means they are not connected. So you can be alive in this world and yet dead spiritually. You can be going to religious services of different kinds, be it Christian or Buddhist or whatever. You can be going through outward religious rituals while still being spiritually dead. In the same way, we are morally dead in that we are disconnected from God and the source of ultimate morality. And yet, and yet at the same time, there is a morality within us. There are things that are written on our hearts as human beings. So almost universally across cultures, certain things are recognized as wrong.

Where did that come from? It's not an evolutionary byproduct if it was ultimately evolutionists about the survival of the fittest. And right or wrong is not the issue, right? When a spider kills a fly, it's not a matter of right or wrong. Was it a good spider and a bad fly? And that solves the problem of theodicy in the insect world, the problem of suffering and the justice of God.

No, there is no theodicy in terms of the insect world. It's survival, right? When a lion kills a zebra, well, it was a good lion and a bad zebra. Well, the zebra had done something wrong in a previous life and it, no, there's no morality there.

It's just survival. So if human beings were simply the products of an evolutionary process, a random unguided evolutionary process, we wouldn't be ultimately talking about moral absolutes. We wouldn't ultimately be talking about moral values. And even when people say, well, there is no God, there can't be a God, there's so much evil in the world, it's always fair to ask, how do you define evil? How do you define good?

Where do we get these concepts from? So having said all that, as much as we recognize we're fallen, people still have a conscience, do they not? All right, I'm going to get to gospel principles in a moment, but I just want you to think this through with me. People still have a conscience. So even a serial killer might have something in him that could be appealed to at a certain point that brings a certain conviction or brings a certain, they're struck in their hearts. So many, of course, their consciences are seared. But there might be something else they still wouldn't do.

They wouldn't hurt their mother or their grandmother or their sister or something like that, as demented and evil as they are. In the same way, even people who, in Paul's words, have had their reasoning powers atrophied may still, may still have an ability to think on some level and recognize that they've been told two plus two is five and it really isn't. My point is that sometimes patiently seeking to minister to someone, as long as there is this interaction, as long as they're willing to sit and talk with you, right?

So the door is open on some level, that as long as you have that open door, you might be able to plan to sieve because there's still human beings on the inside. Plus, as we're praying for them, the Holy Spirit is drawing them. I remember as a new believer, so I was in high school and coming home from high school one day, and there was a Jehovah's Witness, a woman named Judy, actually a neighbor from down the street. She and her husband were Jewish, husband very much agnostic and professor and pretty aggressive against religious faith. She, a Jehovah's Witness, it was an interesting dynamic in the home there. Kind of fun to watch, but she was talking to my mom. And I found out subsequently as I got to know this woman better, and thankfully she did leave Kingdom Hall, I remember asking, well, what did my mom say to you?

And she's typical, a proud Jewish mother. She said, oh, I'm not interested in religion, but wait for my son to come home. He'll convert you.

He converts everybody, my wonderful mom. So, I come driving up in my car just as she's walking out. So, I begin talking to her, and she would quote a scripture to me. She'd say, well, Daniel said, seal up the book. And I'd say, well, Revelation says, don't seal.

And I'd see something happen. I talked to the Jehovah's Witnesses, and it was, there was no interacting. What I mean is, any time I gave them an answer to their point, they moved to the next talking point.

They were trying to move, so there was no thinking. There was no allowing what I said to penetrate, at least while we were there. But when I said something to her, I could see a reaction, like she heard it.

It's like, hmm. And then she quoted another thing, and I said, yeah, but this scripture says this. And it threw her a little. I remember in those days, I was memorizing 20 verses a day, and had read the Bible cover to cover four times plus at that point in the previous year and a half maybe.

So, I was, I didn't have all the compassion and wisdom, but boy, I could mow you down with scripture. And eventually, she left Kingdom Hall. The point is, the point is, she heard me.

Even though she resisted, she went back to her arguments, and it took months and months and months. Something was getting in there. So, just for example, for example, as I've mentioned that Hebrew Israelites are flooding our YouTube channel, for which I'm thrilled. I'm glad to see it in there.

If you're watching this now, I'm so glad that you're watching. And I've been reading lots and lots of posts. Of course, I'm not seeing all of them by any means, but I'm seeing lots and lots of comments. So, a ton of them are commenting on my debate with Guerrilla Hebrew from the Radical Sicari group.

It's really a race-based hate group. And, you know, say, Brown didn't provide any scriptures at all. Brown only had arguments from his own head. He didn't give a single scripture or a single source. So, we're just interacting with some of the comments as a team, only a fraction of them. But just saying, oh, could you please clarify, because in the opening statement, Dr. Brown put verses up in Hebrew and in English, read some of them completely, and referenced a total of nine scriptures, or nine or ten, in the first opening presentation. And then he also referenced XYZ academic sources. So, could you please clarify what you mean when he says he didn't use any scriptures, or he didn't cite any sources, he just gave his own opinions.

Now, I haven't seen responses to any of those. But maybe, maybe it just gets someone to think, why did I say that? Him, in other words, or her, the person posting. Why did they say what they said? In other words, if they made a false statement, blatantly false statement, obviously they heard someone else say it, they heard it echoed, right? Because it couldn't have been their own thought out of the blue when it's so contrary to fact.

And now you just ask, maybe there's something there, despite the racial hatred, despite the name calling that we see every single day, the ugliest, really sick things, Holocaust denial and other stuff. But maybe someone will think, because there's still something going on in the brain, right? Maybe they'll think, and maybe it'll make them just question something. Sometimes all you need to do is put a chink in the other armor and make someone realize, hey, you haven't been told the truth, or hey, you can't just accept everything you're hearing based on blind faith. So this is really, really important in our ministry to others. As I said, be it a culture war issue, be it something else that's more spiritually based. Yeah, ultimately it's a spiritual battle, and we're going to come to that momentarily on the other side of the break. But maybe a careful, reasoning, patient, getting someone to question something in their system often is the way out from a cult or a stronghold.

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866-344-TRUTH. I'm going to go to the phones shortly, but let me just stay here for a little while about ministering to those who are spiritually blind. Now, of course, I'm going to say, how arrogant of you to say I'm blind and you're blind and brown. And so, OK, everyone can have their viewpoints. But if we can have a dialogue, if we can go back and forth, if we can exchange views, if I can say, well, I understand this first to mean this. And you say, yeah, but look at it this way and say, oh, OK, now we're having a dialogue, right? But if I go to say something to you and I present it to you, I vote for this candidate for these reasons and here is my moral reasoning behind it.

And you just get shouted out as a bigot and a hater. OK, there's not a lot of interaction dialogue going on there. There's something else that's getting in the way. If I sit down with someone else and say, well, here, let's look at this versus where you're dangerous, man. I'm getting away from you.

OK, so walls have come up. But in other cases, if you can have that interaction, if you can plant that seed, a seed that causes the person to question their system in a sound way. In other words, the same way I would want you to think if you were on my side, the same way I'd want you to analyze sources if you were on my side, the same way if you were a believer, I'd want you to interact with those who do not believe and do not see things our way, who believe in other things.

That's what I want you to do within your own system. And may God give you the courage to follow the truth, wherever it leads. Now listen to Paul's words in 2 Corinthians 3. It's about the hope that we have, the new covenant beginning verse 12.

Therefore, we're very bold. We're not like Moses who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. So he came down from Mount Sinai and his face was shining, but he put a veil on so they wouldn't see the glory fading. But their minds were made dull for to this day, the same veil remains when the old covenant is red.

It has not been removed because only in Messiah is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is red, a veil covers their heart. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The Lord is the spirit where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom and we all who with only the faces contemplate the Lord's glory are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord who is the spirit. So, Paul's saying that a Jewish person, especially traditional Jewish person, they're raised to read and understand the scriptures a certain way. And now when they're hearing Moses red, they're hearing scriptures from what we call the old covenant scriptures, they're hearing those read.

They're not hearing them. They're not seeing the Messiah in them because of that veil. Some of the veil is just the way you're raised.

The tradition in which you're raised is now one that sees things differently and you're raised in that context with different emphases, different understandings. But someone turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. So, there's still that possibility for anyone to say, God, I just want to know your truth.

I just want to follow you. I prayed that over the decades, especially early on as I was really challenged by these rabbis that kindly took hours to spend with me and to seek to influence me out of my beliefs in Jesus and really challenged me. The New Hebrew, they had strong arguments.

They were very devoted men. And it forced me on my knees and my face to say, God, I just want to follow you and your truth wherever it leads, regardless of cost or consequence. And all the more did that establish me in the faith. Now, look at what Paul writes 2 Corinthians 4. Therefore, since through God's mercy, we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.

Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways. We do not use deception, nor do we distort the Word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly, we commend ourselves to everyone's conscience and the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ is Lord, and ourselves is your servants for Jesus' sake. For God who said, Let light shine out of darkness, may this light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ. Now, I have Calvinist friends, I'm not Calvinist myself, but I have Calvinist friends who are very confident in the power of the gospel, and I love that.

They think this way, that the gospel saves, that Jesus died to save his people, and that there is an elect people in the earth. And as I share the gospel, the light will go on for the elect. And because it's ordained through the preaching of the gospel and through prayer for people to be saved, that I know as I give myself to those means of prayer and preaching, people will be saved. We have many differences on many points, but we agree that the gospel is the power of God to save for everyone who believes.

We agree there. And therefore I know, as I speak the message of truth, that, in my mind, not because someone is predestined to be saved, as a Calvinist would think, but because God does have a people, and because he is preparing hearts and is preparing minds, that maybe not in every crowd in every group, maybe not in every village in an outlying area, but as you preach the gospel, God will have a people in every country, in every region, every city, every tongue. And therefore we go with confidence. Same way among religious Jews, I know we're seen as complete outsiders and apostates and dangerous people, and that especially in a very, very ultra-orthodox community, which is so closed in, in terms of its thinking and its lifestyle, and separate from the world which it sees as so polluting, which of course in many ways it is, that someone like me is just complete outsider, and yet I know that the words of God are powerful, and that the gospel can penetrate hearts, so we just keep planting seeds with confidence. In Ephesians 4, I don't have time to read this all right before the break, but in Ephesians 4, Paul talks about this process of the hardening of the hearts, and with that the insensitivity that it brings, the desensitizing that it brings, which is true. The more people give themselves over to sin or to an unrighteous cause, or to a false belief, the deeper a hole they can have on them, the more hard they can become, the more desensitized they can become, and yet, and yet, as we persist in prayer, especially when God leads us to pray for certain individuals, as we cry out, and as we patiently, at the right moments, it's got to be at the right moments, because otherwise you just drive people away, at the right moments when we see an openness, when we see a need, when we see a recognition, we share the truth, we preach, we tell them who Jesus really is, we tell them about these life and death realities, as we do that, we will see hearts and minds open, because remember, all of us at one time, before we were believers, were unbelievers, and therefore our own minds were blinded to the truth of the gospel, and God worked in us. Think of how it happened in your own life. Maybe you hit rock bottom, and realized, my brother-in-law's been telling me for years I need Jesus, I think he's right, I think I need the Lord. Or maybe, there's just something inside of you, it's like, there's got to be something more, I'm successful, everything's good in life, there's got to be something more, and that drove you to seek God earnestly. Or maybe you were totally devoted to another cause or cult, and you realize, and something happened, that seed was planted, that caused you to question or doubt, and okay, something is not right here, and you step back and that led you on a path to the truth. For others, you were miraculously healed and realized this is the power of God, Jesus is real. Either way, God saves, and every single day around the planet, there are innumerable numbers of people coming to the Lord, more than we can track, being genuinely born again, brought into the kingdom, transformed. So our battle is intense and difficult, but friends, don't go weary, keep presenting the truth in love, and back it in prayer, and you never know, you'll see in the days that we're like, I'm going straight to the falls, I'm really starting to break, I also have some political comments to make.

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Welcome back to the line of fire, 866-34-TRUTH. By the way, I just looked at YouTube comments during the break here, and it's a perfect example, Hebrew Israelites, perfect example of, of... Dr. Brown's just saying, everything Sekeri says bogus without any type of proof or evidence to back it up. So in other words, every source that I cite it, every academic source, every biblical source, I didn't give any sources.

So how could someone actually watch the debate and say that unless they're blind? And then, those people have been kicked out of those countries, so as Jews we've been kicked out of all these countries, quote, because we were imposters? I mean, this is, this is the most mind-boggling rewriting of history imaginable.

It's really unimaginable. Quote, they left black and returned white, which is a made-up quote attributed to Nasser. About the, the people, the Jewish people leaving Israel, leaving Egypt black and returning white. In it, in any case, in any case, this is, this is what we're up against in terms of spiritual blindness, and it's just not with these radical Hebrew Israelites, not, not all are in this camp, of course.

It's not just there, it's thousands of other examples. But same thing, you plant a seed, you see if the person's willing to reason, that if they post blatantly anti-Semitic things like this, they get deleted, of course. Our platforms are not going to be used for anything. If you get up, you're some white supremacist, and you post blatantly anti-black comments, you'll just be bland from the channel, period. You're gone. You're gone.

You attack some other group like that, even attacks on Muslims that we feel are unfair, or attacks on Mohammed that cross the line, we're going to delete those. But you can have free interaction on all sides, of course. We welcome that on our YouTube channel. But anyway, just perfect, perfect example here. All right, let us go to the phones. We'll start with Robert in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hey Michael, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. The Jews, the Orthodox Jews that you see at the wedding wall today, I'm assuming they're worshipping the Yahweh of the Old Testament. And what I'm wanting to know is the God that they worship, is that the same God that the Christians call God the Father? Because I know that Jesus Christ is essential, and you have to believe in Him to get to the Father.

That's John 14.6, I think. But anyway, are they worshipping the Yahweh of the Old Testament that Christians now would call God the Father? I have to answer with a yes and a no. It's slightly complex, but your question is a perfect question.

I did a whole presentation on this at an academic conference a couple years back. So on the one hand, the answer is yes, in that we both believe the God of the Old Testament is the one and only God. And when Christians pray, for example, the Lord's Prayer, we're praying to that God, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, but we're praying to that God who created all things, the God who made promises to Israel, the God who worked miracles in the past. So that's the same God we're praying to, for sure, in that regard.

So an absolute yes there. The difference would be, as you rightly said, that Jews would reject the deity of Jesus and would reject the personhood of the Holy Spirit. So a traditional Jew would say to me, as a messianic Jew, I'm not worshipping the same God they are in many ways.

In some ways I am, in other ways I am not, because my God is triune. And they would say to a gentile Christian as well, but they'd have a bigger problem with me as a fellow Jew. They'd give a little more latitude to a gentile Christian. Now, you'll have many Jews in dialogue with Christians, religious Jews, not necessarily ultra ultra-Orthodox, but Orthodox Jews, liberal Jews, interacting with Christians of different stripes, and saying we all pray to the same God. We all worship the same God. We're all on the same side, each from our own religious perspective.

So some would be more liberal and open there. So it's a yes as far as, for sure, we're reading the same Bible, in terms of the Old Testament scriptures. We recognize that God is the same God, the creator, the sovereign one who rules the universe, the only one worthy of worship and adoration, the one who gave promises to Israel, and redeemed Israel out of Egypt and brought them into the Promised Land, same God for sure, and full of love and mercy and kindness and compassion, but also just and one who brings punishment. On the other hand, there would even be differences within our notions of God, in that some traditional Jews are more mystical, follow Kabbalah more, and have different ideas about God. The idea of God being the Ein Sof, which is the one without limit, and therefore fulfilling the universe, some would say that every soul has an aspect of God in it, because God is everything and everywhere. So sometimes if you dig deeper, what you'll see, Robert, is that sometimes there are more distinctions the deeper you dig, and the more you understand exactly what a traditional Jew believes. But generally speaking, the answer is yes, in terms of the God of the Old Testament and God the Father, but no when you dig deeper.

All right? Well, let me just say, I spent too much time already, but let me just say this, before Christ came, these people worshiped Yahweh. We know they did. So now after Christ comes, that's not enough. Is that what you're saying? And look, I'm a Christian. I'm not arguing with you, but I'm just saying, you have to add Christ now to what they used to believe. Is that... That's how they would see it.

I would see it differently. But it's another great question, Robert. Number one, I would say that Jesus and the Holy Spirit, or the Son of God and the Holy Spirit, are present in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, it was never just God the Father, that even within the Hebrew Bible, God made himself known in person in different ways, and the plan of redemption was laid out, and the Holy Spirit as a person was active. So I would say, God in his triunity was already there, even if they didn't fully understand it.

What we're saying is, you need to fully understand it. Second thing is, everything changed. The temple was destroyed. The whole system that was set up by God to bring Israel into a right relationship with God and to have a place of worship was destroyed. Either there is no national atonement for Israel, and the Jewish people have been left in their sins, or the one promised in the Old Testament came. So that's the big thing, when God for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years is preparing the way, in writing, for this one to come. And now he comes, and you reject him.

This is not adding anything. It's simply saying, what was promised has now come to pass. And just like in the Old Testament, Israel often rejected the prophets, and they rejected Moses.

Similarly, they rejected the Messiah on a national level. So, in that sense, it was just a continuation of what had been before. It just came further along the lines in development. So it's not a new thing that got added on.

It's what was always there and always planned, now coming to pass fully, what are you going to do with it? So, I'd encourage you to look at it a little differently in that regard. That's why Jesus says in John 5 to the Jewish leaders, if you believe Moses, you would believe me.

Because he's in there. That's the whole point, alright? Thank you, Michael, for that outstanding answer. You are very welcome, and thanks for asking the right questions. And by the way, all questions are welcome.

But, I like the way that these were phrased to really get to the heart of the point. Alright, let's go over to Marilyn in southwest Ohio. Hey, Marilyn, are you listening by radio or on your computer or cell phone? Are you there? I guess, Marilyn, how'd it go?

It's been holding for a while. Let's go over to our buddy Jesse in Twin Cities, Minnesota. Welcome to the Line of Fire. Hi, thanks for having me on, Dr. Braun.

You bet! So, the question I have for you is kind of wrapped up in free will. I know in your commentary on Jeremiah, you had to wrestle through this open theism thing, because there's some passages in Jeremiah that make it seem like, well, maybe God doesn't know the future. And from my understanding of open theism, it raises man's free will to a level that God can't know what a person's going to do. That's how I understand it.

I could be wrong about that. And then, so, that's basically what I'm asking about. And then, also, along with that, how do you see free will, like you see it as traditionally understood in philosophy, the ability to do otherwise, or in some possible world, you would have done something different. And then, along with that, how would you tie that in with, like, prevenient grace, like how God elicits grace to the person and then they have this choice to make?

Yeah, thanks for these precisely worded and thought out questions as well. Let me first start with the issue of free will in general. As you know, I'm not a philosopher, and often I don't engage in in-depth philosophical discussion.

So, you might have, for example, William Lane Craig and James White interacting on middle knowledge and free will from a philosophical point of view, but I don't even think of going there simply because I see God inhabiting eternity, and therefore everything known, and I see free will within that without any contradiction. So, on a very pragmatic level, what is self-evident is that every day we have ability to make choices on certain things, be it what socks we wear or what food we eat or what moral choices we make or what spiritual choices we make. Within certain parameters, we clearly have freedom. Now, we are products of our environment and our age and our upbringing and all that, but we clearly have freedom within our particular environment and life. A child only has so much freedom in the parent's home, but every day, within those parameters, we have basic free will, and we're judged for it. So, it's not predetermined. It's not set up what we're going to do because we have to give account to God, and some will be pleased and others will be displeased.

That's number one. Number two, when it comes to salvation, we do not have the ability to save ourselves, but either because of the power of the gospel itself, that brings the ability for us to provide grace for us to believe, or human beings can still say yes or no to God's grace. We can't save ourselves. We can say yes or no. So, in my mind, Jesse, God is constantly preparing the way in people's hearts, either through what Jesus says, if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men to me, John 12 32, or Titus 2 11, that the grace of God has appeared to all men, or Romans 1 16, which I mentioned the power of the gospel to save for everyone who believes, or Romans 10 17, that faith comes through hearing the word. So, either way, God is at work in our hearts. I don't agree with Calvinists that you have to be born again before you believe. In fact, with all respect to my Calvinistic friends, I see that it's very contrary to a number of scriptures, especially as many as received him, to them he gave power to believe. And John 1 13 doesn't contradict that, and every translation, I think, is correct there.

So, on that level, every human being, when confronted with the gospel, has the ability to say yes or no, because that's how God and his sovereignty set it up. So, last thing, Otheus and Provine Grace, we'll be right back. Backed by 24 human clinical studies and over $20 million in government-funded research, MyoHealth contains a perfect balance of all nine essential amino acids. With MyoHealth, you can rebuild your strength, improve your balance and mobility, have more energy while restoring your health and vitality, and start building new, lean, stronger muscle in as little as 30 days. By combining MyoHealth with a healthy diet and regular exercise, you can feel stronger at any age, have more energy, and live a life with vitality. Put the power of MyoHealth to work for you. I started working out consistently for the first time in years, and I've lost 50 pounds.

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Here again, it's Dr. Michael Brown. All right, 866-34-TRUTH. So, Jesse, let me just finish up my thoughts here. When it comes to what I wrote in Jeremiah to chapter 3, verse 19, it's many years ago, but I remember where it was, the reflection there. In terms of open theism, you do have verses in Jeremiah where God is anticipating, even wishing, a thought, you turn back to me or I hope you do this. We read in the 36th chapter where God tells Jeremiah, tell him this, perhaps they'll repent. But we know plainly that God knew they wouldn't repent. We know plainly from the beginning of the book that God knew what was coming. And it's unimaginable that God, who knows human nature and who sees what people are doing in secret and who knows what's in their hearts, would not know whether they'd repent or not.

So, that perhaps is to speak from our perspective, speak from saying, hey, they have this opportunity, perhaps they'll repent and do the right thing. Of course God knows in advance, just like in Genesis 22. We've already had God give promises to Abram through his seed, the whole world would be blessed.

Genesis 12, the death of the Messiah is foreordained before the foundation of the world and he was from the tribe of Judah. And this goes back to Jacob and then to Isaac and then to Abraham. So, in Genesis 22, when the angel of the Lord speaking for the Lord says, now I know that you really fear me. God knew that going in. That's why it's said in Genesis 18, God will reveal what he's going to do to Sodom and Gomorrah because Abram's going to raise his children in the right way. So, God clearly knows these things. What it's saying here is now I have experienced it in real time.

That's what's happening. So, as I explained there, God can incarnate himself in our world in real time, because he lives in eternity and in real time, and feel, in a feeling way, grief, disappointment, joy, just as Jesus did in this world, while still knowing the outcome in advance. And that's very much in keeping with our nature, too.

As I often use the analogy, you watch an old tearjerker movie, you've watched it 20 times before, well, you know it's coming, you know it's just a movie, but you experience it in real time. So, Jesse, I hope that is helpful. Always good to hear from you.

866-34-TRUTH. Let us go to Amy in Chicago. Hey, how you doing, Amy? Hi, can you hear me okay?

I can. Hey, are you listening by computer, cell phone, or radio? I'm on the phone.

Okay, great. Just to let you know, we are on the radio if you're in your car. Easy to listen on our great Salem station there right in Chicago.

We've just been on it a couple months. That's why I mention it when I see callers from over there. I'm calling you on the phone, but I'm listening to the radio. Oh, okay. Perfect. Well, it always blesses me when we're in new cities to hear from people listening on the radio.

It's a great station there, and we hope to meet with folks there one of these days. Okay, over to your question, please. Okay, yes.

Well, as you said, you're new here, and so I just recently started listening to your station, your program, and I heard you say you're a Hebrew scholar, so I want to, or an expert, and I want to ask you something about that. Yeah. Because I'm confused. So, like, I've been reading different songs recently. Yeah. And I noticed that the version that I'm the most familiar with, which is the old King James, puts some things like, for example, I will see my desire on my enemies, blah, blah, blah, or I will hear this, and it kind of sounds like a promise.

Yeah. And then I noticed in more modern translations, it's translated as past tense, I have seen, or I will hear, and I'm wondering if this is something with the Hebrew grammar, is it ambiguous? Yeah, so you've asked it exactly correctly, Amy. In Hebrew poetry, there's a lot more ambiguity of tenses. Within narrative, it's much more concrete, and you even have rules that govern things more within a narrative. Hebrew doesn't speak of past or present, those are not the categories that are used, it's only perfect and imperfect.

But ultimately, there are things that are clearly looking back. So for example, no one, translated Genesis 1-1, is thinking that it's saying that God is going to create something in the future. Everyone knows that that verb there, bara, is third person perfect, it's speaking of something in the past that God did.

And then as you read through the account and historical accounts, the grammar is very straightforward, and as I said, there are even rules, so if you have a particular form at the beginning of a sentence that follows a conjunction, then it reverses, in other words, it's easy to follow. But in poetry, it's much more fluid. In poetry, it's much more interpretive. What you'll also find is if you'll compare some translations, say of Psalm 72, is it a prophecy or is it a wish, and he will flourish, and he will rule, and he will reign, or is it may he flourish, and that is, it is all interpretive. Yes, so there is some fluidity, and Hebrew poetry does not rhyme for the most part the way English poetry does, it may have some syllable counts that play in in terms of sentence structure, but there's a lot more fluidity and even ambiguity in Hebrew poetry, and therefore you have to read the whole psalm, read it in context, see what makes the most sense. You know, Psalm 109 is that imprecatory, that the wicked person that comes against me, I'm really hoping it's going to go really bad for him, and even his grandkids are going to be cursed, or is it saying this is what's going to happen to this person who does evil. So, that's where you have to wrestle with it, and what I always say is a simple rule, Amy, is when you look at a number of different good translations, so let's say you look at the King James, and then the New King James, let's say you look at the ESV and the NIV, and then maybe a Jewish translation, and they all say the same thing the same way, you can be confident that it's clear. If you look at five of them, and they all say a little differently, then there's some ambiguity, either in the vocabulary or the grammatical structure, and then you do your best to wrestle through what seems to make the most sense to you. Wow.

Yeah. I wish it was more clear. Yeah, well, listen, I know it's comforting when someone can say it's just like this, and we feel good with that, but then, like you say, you step out of your world a little, and you hear another translation by God-fearing people, and especially the King James to the New King James, they did their best to retain the language, to retain the emphasis as much as possible, so that's, when you see the variances there, then there's good reason for it. What you can do is go to BibleGateway.com, Amy, BibleGateway.com. Oh, yes, I've got that. Right, so look up a verse you're interested in, in any version, and then at the bottom of the page, look up one verse, at the bottom of the page, you'll see it says, click to see in all different versions, and so you can click and read it in all the different English versions and think, okay, the vast majority read this way, that's probably how it leans, or they all say this, or they all seem to say something different. That's a helpful exercise, and then, as always, just pray for insight, and even when the text is perfectly clear, we still need divine insight.

Oh, yes. So thank you for asking, and feel free to ask away in the future, all right? Thank you so much, I appreciate that. Have a good one. You are very welcome.

God bless. All right, I'm going right back to the phones. I've completely forgotten to do this, and we're ready July 17th. We put together a special resource offer. These are heating up politically, and it's going to get really intense from now until November 2024.

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I'm just looking at the last couple of calls here. Robert, the last thing I want to do based on your question is give you a rushed answer. If you're able to call in tomorrow, we will find time during the program to take your call. I absolutely want to respond to your question whether you are a true or false convert to Christianity. Obviously, there's something you're struggling with, and I absolutely want to be able to help you without rushing. So, if you're able to call tomorrow, or if you can't, Friday, if you can call, I definitely want to talk to you this week, all right?

And once I looked at the clock, even before I talked about our special offer, I thought, you know, it's going to be a rush, and the last thing I want to do is rush talking to you. Elizabeth in Fresco, Texas, is the Jewish Bible different from the Christian Bible? The Old Testament is exactly the same. Just some of the books are in different order. So, for example, you have Genesis through Deuteronomy exactly the same. Then you have Joshua, Judges, 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, and then you go from there to the prophetic books, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, 12 by the prophets. Then you go to Psalms, Job, Proverbs, Song of Psalms, and other books, and then you get to Ezra, Nehemiah, 1 and 2 Chronicles, and you come to the end.

But Old Testament content is exactly the same books, just in different order in part. And Robert, we hope to hear from you. May the Lord bless you. May He strengthen you. Come on, let's do it. This is our time in Jesus.