BREAKING: Classified Documents Discovered in Biden’s Office

Breaking news today on Sekulow as classified documents are discovered. And guess who's office? Joe Biden's.

We'll talk about that and more today on Sekulow. So for mid-2017 till 2020, President Biden had a personal office. This is after he was Vice President. It was sponsored by the University of Pennsylvania's Biden Center.

But don't let that confuse you. It was not at Penn. It was in Washington, D.C. So it was his private office. He had a closet with documents that he took from his time as Vice President, which is very important as we'll point out why in just a minute. He took those documents as Vice President. His attorneys went to go pack this up, this office up recently, and they discovered a trove of documents that belonged not to Joe Biden, but to the U.S. government, including at least 10 classified documents marked SCI, which is one of the highest levels of classification.

That means sensitive compartmented information. So at least 10 documents marked with that and a whole host of other documents that he should not have been in possession of. This is for six years, not six months like Donald Trump. And by the way, he's Vice President. There's no argument over what declassification powers he had.

He had none. Zero powers to declassify. So the question now is he's now got a U.S. attorney investigating him out of Chicago, and you've got this new U.S. attorney who just got back from another assignment overseas who is investigating Donald Trump over the same matter. And the question is, how are you going to move on Donald Trump and take any criminal action against Donald Trump when Joe Biden had classified documents for six years and he can't even make the argument that they were declassified because he doesn't have the power to do that? I want you to listen to how nasty Joe Biden was about Donald Trump, again, six months after his presidency, when they discovered and really they were having a back and forth fight over whether the documents were Trump's or should have been and were they declassified? Should they go back to the National Archives?

Take a listen to Joe Biden then. When you saw the photograph of the top secret documents laid out on the floor of Mar-a-Lago, what did you think to yourself looking at that image? How that could possibly happen? How anyone could be that irresponsible? I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods?

By that I mean names of people who helped or etc. And it's just totally irresponsible. Yeah. Well, that's interesting because the vice President, as Jordan said, not the President, the President had the authority to declassify any document. The vice President had no such authority and yet he had in his possession at least 10 documents that were classified, several of which have sensitive compartmental information, which is SCI, which is one of the highest segments of classification systems. And Andy, this, you know, there's a doctrine of unclean hands here. You can't go after one, you don't go after the other. I mean, I don't see how they move forward on any kind of criminal matter now on the documents on the former President in light of this.

The Mar-a-Lago documents? No, I don't think there's any way that you can justify proceeding it. I mean, the prosecution would be absolutely irresponsible.

And as you say, the doctrine of unclean hands, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If President Trump did something wrong, President Biden did something wrong, that's another matter. You know, there's absolutely no way that you can engage in a criminal prosecution of President Trump because of what we have discovered happening at the Penn Center. What's really important to understand though, Jordan, what you pointed out, and that is the vice President has no authority to declassify documents. So that argument's gone. The President, a President does, but the vice President does not.

This is six years, not six months. In an office that was controlled by University of Pennsylvania. So the question is, yeah, who had the lock?

Because it was people without the classification clearance. And by the way, next, are they going to be raiding his home in Delaware? Or the White House? Or I guess the White House now?

We got more to talk about. Breaking news now on the documents. And the media is really not letting Joe Biden get away with this. I love to see that there are some pundits in the media who are trying to play this down and cover, but even CNN, their top line reporters like Wolf Blitzer are just not letting them get away with it. We now know the documents, the SCI documents, the classified documents that Joe Biden had for six years stored away in a private office. And again, in a closet. Controlled by, it looks like Penn State.

University of Pennsylvania. Yes. And so we don't know who had access to that office again. Joe Biden was vice President. He doesn't have declassification powers, so there's no argument about that. So we know it involved, and remember this because his family was heavily involved, we know it involved Ukraine. Now we know.

The impeachment of President Trump over Ukraine, and then remember Joe Biden's comment when he left Ukraine, you don't fire the prosecutor now, you don't get your billion dollars? So that was there, so he took that, which would have been interesting info that maybe investigators would have liked to see. Second, Iran. Can you get much more high profile classified than that when you're talking about likely their nuclear program and assets? Because we know that if it's SCI information on Iran, it's information about intel sources and methods. That means it's the people inside Iran giving us the intel who are double agents likely.

There's two aspects of this. And then the UK as well. Yeah, the United Kingdom, which is an ally. You gotta love that when they hear that.

I'm sure. And MI5 and 6 will be, I'm sure, trying to figure it out. Here's the interesting aspect of this though, and I think you have to understand the scope and nature. If you take documents related to Ukraine that were classified, that then vice President, former vice President Biden had, what's interesting about that is we had an impeachment going on shortly thereafter, within 20 months, on Ukraine. So were those documents relevant to the entire impeachment?

Also interesting breaking right now. They were found just days before the midterm elections. So who suppressed the information? Well, the Justice Department has a policy, this is interesting, that they sometimes put in place that says if it's before a campaign or election, but it was not him. So it shouldn't have been irrelevant.

It wasn't any candidate. The seriousness of this is nobody should be running around with classified documents, but a vice President doesn't have near the authority that a former vice President has, nowhere near the authority as a President. Not at all.

Absolutely not. The President is the person who can classify or declassify documents, vice President not. And here these documents relate, as Jordan was pointing out, to really areas in which Biden had a personal interest, especially Ukraine, and that's very troubling.

And the Iran nuclear program was probably among those documents. Why did he select those? Why did he put those in?

What motives were there when gendered because of that? Those are the questions that I want to know, Jay. I'll tell you what I think the problem here is. It's interesting to me, first of all, the way Logan just jumped in here and is breaking news, the way the media is having to handle this. Yeah, they are. I mean, they're certainly comparing it to the Trump situation.

They're saying, well, this is 10 versus 100, or this is however it's done. My question is, if we're looking at it from a bigger point of view, which is classified bad, classified bad, but you're looking at it going, is this almost par for the course in terms of the presidencies and vice Presidents? If you went through everyone's files, you're going to find these if you were the President or the vice President, essentially saying they've all have these documents somewhere. That feels like that's more likely the case. Okay, then you know what you don't do? Raid the former President's property. That's right.

It's not that uncommon. And by the way, because we monitor all the networks, CNN is very interesting. What they're saying is that, Jordan mentioned the timing of this, that the 10 documents found classified, including intelligence memos.

So we now know it's Intel. If it's SCI on Iran, this was our assets inside Iran. These are the people they execute. This is the people that would be killed immediately if Iran had access to it.

They're important people because they're giving us the info on their nucleus. Remember, I think it was under the Obama administration, there was a serious attack. Most people expected it was led by Israel, but okayed by the United States on the Iran's technical side of their nuclear capabilities that shut down all their centrifuges, put them back like two or three years. But the question that Logan asked is a really good one here. How did the vice President of the United States, former vice President, end up with these documents for six years and let the Department of Justice, this is the duplicity of this, and let the Department of Justice go after a former President, including executing a search warrant at his house? Well, I'd like to know why the vice President ever have it. He's vice President. Well, that's a good question. It's a good point for Presidents and the mistakes, I think you said, I think Presidents, when they go get all these documents, that's one thing.

He's a vice President. He didn't have millions of these documents he had to deal with every day. They needed authority. Or authority to declassify.

Can't make that even case. The idea here is I feel like these were hand selected for, these even seem more hand selected for reasons. We know he had all these financial interests in Ukraine with his son. It's very interesting that it's Ukraine. He had the prosecutor fired in Ukraine.

And threatened them with a billion dollars. We know that there was a phone call that led to an impeachment of President Trump over what Joe Biden was doing in Ukraine. And you wondered, Dad, would we have, or should have we, when we were doing the impeachment trial, had access to this document?

Oh, possibly. First of all, if they were exculpatory or if they covered, we were drawing the comparison. I mean, three of us here worked on this case on the floor of the United States Senate. We were drawing the comparison of what was done on the previous administration. And here you have the vice President, while an impeachment's going on of the President, who was a private citizen at that point, having documents on the topic we're having an impeachment over.

Well, this is the thing that really concerns me. First of all, how did he get them? Who gave them to him?

How did he acquire them? And how did they hand select the documents to give him? Why has he got documents relating to the personal relations that his family has in the Ukraine? Why has he got documents relating to Iran, to the United Kingdom, probably our closest ally? These are important things to really consider. And why is he taking those documents, putting them in his closet?

Let me ask you this question, and maybe you two comment on this. Could this be the reason that I'm watching the media's reaction to this, which has been pretty aggressive right now. Is this because they want Joe Biden out of the way in 2024? Like a last-ditch effort to get him out of the way? Yes, before he makes his big announcement in a couple of weeks.

Possibly. It is bizarre that his own people have turned him in, his own attorneys, and the DOJ didn't handle it. I think that Merrick Garland, we've seen weak leadership out of him, weak need. This kind of reminds me of a Jeff Sessions move, in the sense that he got cold feet real quick on this and appointed a U.S. attorney. From Chicago, who was a Trump appointee. Very interesting move.

I think, honestly, to be fair, the truth is, these issues, they happen, like Logan said. The Vice President has a worse case for it, but they want to perp-walk Donald Trump over this. They want to arrest him and put him in handcuffs. They raided his home. Unless you raid the Delaware home today, I don't want to hear any excuses for that.

I feel like that's over. You've got to be raiding that home. Show that you are non-partisan in this and do it, or we're done here. Don't raid Hunter Biden's house. Well, here's my question. If it involved Ukraine.

Here's the issue, though. I think it's part of this. And that is, the Department of Justice, as we know, executed a search warrant on the home of a former President. Unprecedented move. Got a judge to sign it who was conflicted out of a civil case involving President Trump, but he signed an arrest warrant. You had this entire motion for contempt that the federal government filed against President Trump's team and the former President, and the judge denied it.

So now you wonder, Andy, what was in the background of that? Because we know this stuff happened late October. The denial of the contempt was December.

Well, this is the thing. When you make a federal criminal case out of documents, the judge said, I'm denying the motion, right? I'm not going to hold them in contempt. But you raise interesting questions, and what Jordan said is important, I think, and that is, why are you not raiding Joe Biden's house in Delaware? If you're raiding Mar-a-Lago because there are documents in there that are classified documents, sensitive documents, top-secret documents, why are you not treating similarly situated people in the same way, Mr. Attorney General? Why are you discriminating against similarly situated people? What's the difference between what Donald Trump had and what Joe Biden had in his office?

Well, I'll tell you. Donald Trump was the President of the United States and had the authority to declassify if he so choose. Joe Biden did not. And we had, as Jordan said, an impeachment going on on the very top of at least one of the documents, Ukraine, and nobody had access to those documents. You know, it's interesting. Ben Sisney, who handles our FOIA work, so he deals with all these document requests all of the time, one we're involved in right now, he said, you know, isn't it interesting that we never heard from George W. Bush or Obama or Bill Clinton when it was about Donald Trump's documents?

And you wonder if this is, like Logan said, it's a problem with just pieces of paper being collected quickly. And it's always that, because intent is the reason here. Were these documents on Ukraine, Russia, I mean, Ukraine, Iran, and the UK intentionally chosen?

Because that's when it becomes criminal. Or was it just a bunch of documents altogether? Or were they documents on Ukraine involving under Biden?

Under Biden. But were they intentionally chosen or not? We've got a minute, so maybe we'll talk about this in the next segment, but will we actually ever find out?

That's the question. Is there... Well, they're classified, so... They're classified, so we won't really know what's in the documents. Some of the Trump stuff leaked out. Well, this is already leaking.

And this is starting to leak, but officially, we're not going to know. Well, we know what it's about if it's about Ukraine then, because that was the prosecutor. That was the prosecutor, it was the corruption issues. Yeah, a billion dollars of aid.

And then under Biden, it was the nuclear program. There's nothing else there. The UK could be anything. The UK is just like spying on your ally, which we got in trouble with under the Obama administration because we were spying on Merkel.

Right. We tapped her phone. We got a lot here to discuss. We're taking your call.

Your reaction to this? 1-800-684-3110. 800-684-3110. We want to hear what you have to say about all this as well. So a lot more coming up. 800-684-3110. Follow us at Jay Sekulow, at Jordan Sekulow, at ACLJ, at Logan Sekulow.

Back with more in just a moment. After nearly 50 years, Roe vs. Wade, the tragic ruling that manufactured a so-called right to abortion has been overturned by the United States Supreme Court. This is the moment the ACLJ has been fighting for. It's the biggest victory we've achieved in our three-decade-long fight against the soulless abortion industry.

And believe me, abortionists like Planned Parenthood are devastated. This victory would not have been possible without the steadfast prayer and support of ACLJ members like you. On behalf of the entire ACLJ, I thank you for standing with us against the abortion industry and helping us save defenseless babies. I thank you for making this victory possible. And I ask you for your continued prayer and support as we continue to battle against barbaric new abortion laws across our nation. Welcome back to Sekulow. We're taking your phone calls at 1-800-684-3110. That's 1-800-684-3110. I do want to play this from CNN.

We need to set everybody up. This is how it all started yesterday and how they tried to play it down, and Wolf Blitzer would not allow the commentator on CNN, who was, was it J.B. Gangel? Yeah, to try and play it down. Take a listen.

It's about 48 seconds, but it's important because this is how it kind of all was breaking. Bite 14. These were supposedly being kept in a locked closet that they found a lot of personal documents there, a lot of other research documents, and then they found a small number of documents that should have been turned over to the archives under the Presidential Records Act, but there was a subset, and those were the classified documents. I'm told there were fewer than a dozen documents, but they were classified. They were of a certain level. Were they top secret? They were under a category called SCI.

That's higher than top secret? And that, but that we don't know the significance. We don't know the content. They don't know what they pertain to. Let me tell you what they pertain to. They pertain to, we don't know, Iran, Ukraine, where there's a whole issue with Joe Biden, I don't remember, and the UK.

And let me tell you something else. Sensitive compartmented information, SCI, that is information that has to be handled in a secured area called a SCIF. It's handled in a particular way. The President of the United States can declassify any document that is the authority that the President has as Commander in Chief under the United States Constitution. You know who does not have that authority?

A Vice President. We had an impeachment going on involving Ukraine, and there were allegations that Joe Biden said, and he said he made these statements public. I mean, if we, I'd like us to find that statement of Joe Biden's when he said, you know, I told him, if he doesn't give us a billion dollars, you're not getting a billion dollars unless you get rid of this prosecutor. Is that what's in these documents? Because it's amazing to me, of all the things that's on hand, it's Ukraine. We had a three-week trial in the United States Senate on Ukraine.

That doesn't amaze me, Jay. It seems to me, you know, the reality is it was handpicked, and he gave it to him, whoever gave it to him, however he got it, he got it because it pertained to his son and his family and the personal relationships and business connections they had with the Ukraine. And that's what they, he said he wanted to, probably needed to have those, you know, put aside and taken care of so that no one got access to them.

And he had them because they were intelligence memos. This is a stinky situation. This is a situation that needs to be looked at very greatly. If you're going to look at Donald Trump and Mar-a-Lago, then you better look at the Penn Biden Center as well. But they did look at Donald Trump and Mar-a-Lago because they executed a search warrant on his home. And remember that picture that we played, Joe Biden referencing, was set up by the FBI. They're the ones that tossed all the files on the floor. That's not how they found him.

I wonder if we're going to see pictures from this one. Yeah, right. Probably attorneys with shocked... Have they said, are they executing search warrants today because... Yeah, because those guys, remember that wasn't, that was not like a team going in, that was his private attorneys going in. Exactly right.

We got calls coming in on this. By the way, don't have likely the clearance to be going through that. That's another interesting question. Do these lawyers have security clearance? Now, the President, now that he's President, he could give his lawyers security clearance. And that means he knew they were in there. Correct. If that's the case, we don't know that. But let's take calls.

800-684-3110. Well, another thing to point out, I just want to point out, when they say 10 documents, that doesn't mean 10 pages. No, it could be a thousand pages.

A hundred pages in each document. So that's just something, again, Ben Sisi pointed out who does our FOIA work. We're actually looking at doing a FOIA on this because we're trying to wait to get as much info as we can that will come out of the media. It's interesting that we got Ukraine, UK, and Iran. Right. And we know this was a time in the world there was a significant amount of terrorism occurring, both here in the United States, in Europe. There was ISIS. I mean, that all was happening. Yeah.

Look, the ramifications of this are serious, but the double standard is what's so outrageous here. Let's go ahead and take a call. Should we go right to the phones? James in Texas on Line 1. Hey, James. Hey, guys.

How are you doing? Sure. My point is, you brought up the Ukraine situation, so I think they'll still go after Donald Trump anyway. That's the way the system works, it seems. And another thing is, can Obama go back and say, oh, I had already declassified those documents and get him off the hook? Well, if President Obama, while he was President, declassified the documents, then they would be declassified. But no one is saying that. They're not saying that at all. They're saying these are SCI documents, which is the special compartmental information.

So that's number one. Number two, I think they got trouble trying to go after Donald Trump, former President, on documents that were classified that he had in his possession at Mar-a-Lago and not do anything. And there's just no way they could do this. It would be such a mistake for the Department of Justice. Well, it would be. It would be selective prosecution.

It would not be treating similarly situated persons in the same way. What about the media on this, Logan? They're going to have to, it's a very interesting, because Jordan's right, they pushed back, Wolf Blitzer, to his credit, pushed back. But now they're breaking what the story is.

Yeah, I mean, there's going to always be a few journalists who are actually journalists, and we'll ask the questions. We'll push back when it's necessary. But you saw CNN, I mean, let's not try to give them too much credit.

As soon as it broke, they were trying to cover for it. You just happen to have one person who happens to be a lead anchor there saying, now, hold on, we're going to push back a little on you. But look, are you seeing the comparison? They're going, it's nothing compared to what it was at Trump. Don't even, look, trust me, they're not going to embrace this. Don't give them any credit that they don't deserve. A couple people maybe deserve an ounce more credit than they've been getting for the last seven years. Let's talk politics of this, too, okay?

The American people, they don't make any difference here. They just say, double standard hypocrite, raid his home. Or call the whole thing off of Donald Trump, too, and just go away. Like it didn't happen?

Yeah, like you screwed up. What does Jack Smith, the special counsel, what does he do with this? I don't know, this puts him in a tremendous quandary. They took it out, it didn't go to him. No, it went to Jim Roush, a U.S. Attorney in Illinois, a Trump appointee, and a holdover.

Yeah, which is rare to begin with. Well, I think you've got Merrick Garland sitting there going, uh-oh. This is not what he wants. No, because they were going to get tough on Trump. Remember, he got all that pressure to go after Trump. And he did. Now look where that went. They did? They didn't have their ducks in a row? No.

Obviously not. They filed a motion for contempt on the documents against the former President when the former vice President, now President, but at the time former vice President, had SCI documents in his position at a facility controlled possibly by the University of Pennsylvania. Definitely paid for by.

Yeah, it was part of a Penn Biden initiative. An access to it. We're going to talk about this for the next half hour with the broadcast, folks, because there's a lot coming up on this.

We'll take your calls at 800-684-3110, 1-800-684-3110. We are looking at the angles that we can get additional information through litigation or at least for Freedom of Information Act demand that then could result in, probably would result in litigation. We want to let information come out first, though.

The more information we have, the better our claim can be. Yeah, and Congresswoman Claudia Titt is going to be joining us as well on the IRS move. We haven't gotten to that yet. The defunding of the IRS, very important. That was a pledge by Kevin McCarthy to take that vote. And she's got a second piece of legislation to put that money in a place where it would actually help. We'll talk about this issue with the documents. We'll talk about it with her, too. Oh, sure, absolutely.

Member of Congress, they have oversight authority here. Very fascinating development, I'll say that. You want to stay engaged and updated with us, go to ACLJ.org, sign up for our emails, our news alerts.

You also go to atjordanSekulow, atjSekulow, atloganSekulow, at ACLJ on any of our social media platforms to get information so we can keep you current. This story is obviously developing. It is only Tuesday this week. And you already know that the documents are Iran, Ukraine, subject of an impeachment, subject of questions about Joe Biden and his son's involvement in Ukraine, and then UK, our ally.

I want to say something, too, just a shout out if you're just going to get our first half hour. Kevin McCarthy booted Ilhan Omar from the Foreign Affairs Committee, took Schiff and Swalwell off intelligence. Great. Good for him. I think he's pretty conservative.

He's pretty conservative, that's right. Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.

All right, so we got to, I think, start from yesterday. Yesterday evening, the news breaks that just days before the midterm elections, Joe Biden had his personal attorneys, private attorneys, go into his private office that he utilized for the Penn Biden Center. That's the University of Pennsylvania Biden Center, but it's actually in Washington, D.C. And they went into a closet. Supposedly the closet had a lock on it.

I mean, okay, we have no idea past that what that means. But they had access to it, so they unlock it, they're going through documents, and they find 10 documents. And again, I think it's important to point out, it doesn't mean 10 pages. 10 documents marked classified, actually SCI, which is one of the highest levels of classification. Now we know, which we just found out 10 minutes ago, what the documents pertain to. Iran, Ukraine, which the President Trump was impeached over, and he was impeached over the phone call about what Joe Biden was doing with Ukraine, and Iran, and the U.K. Now Iran, we can almost guarantee that's their nuclear program. And SCI means the people that are like your double agents, your real assets here.

Compartmented information, one of the highest levels of classification. So talking about putting people's lives at risk, and let's remember, this is at the time a Vice President who has no power to declassify at all. My big question is, why is the home not being raided in Delaware right now, or any of his other offices? And the other question aspect of this, we know it's about Ukraine. Because all of these documents are supposed to be so important, they better get in the hands of the National Archives immediately, or else it's what they said about Donald Trump, so it's why they had to do it that way. So why aren't they in Delaware? Ukraine is particularly sensitive because not only do we have an impeachment on it, so we've been interested to know what was in those documents, but also what Joe Biden said about Ukrainian aid when he was Vice President of the United States.

Take a listen. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against a state prosecutor, and they didn't. So they said, they were walking out to press conference, and I said, we're not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority, you're not the President.

The President said, I said, call him. I said, I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars. I said, you're not getting the billion, I'm going to be leaving here, and I think it was what, six hours? I looked at it, I said, I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor's not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. Got fired.

Yeah. Where are those documents? Maybe in his possession, because some of the documents he has are in Ukraine. There's going to be oversight about Ukrainian activity as relates to Hunter Biden, while all this was going on, and Barisma, that whole thing. It was a big, it was the subject. And that prosecutor was investigating Barisma. Yes, and this was the subject.

Hunter Biden was on the board of it. Correct, but this was the subject of the impeachment a few years ago. Well, of course, exactly, and that's why the documents were purloined by Biden and put in his secret compartment there at Penn Foundation in Washington, D.C., because they pertain to his son.

I mean, let's not, let's be practical about this. We haven't seen it, but it would be shocking. I don't know, but the inference, if I was a prosecutor, the inference is going to be made and should be made and can be drawn that those documents pertain to personal business relationships with the Biden family, the Ukraine, and what was happening in Iran, and spying on our ally, the United Kingdom. There were intel memos. CNN was reporting that.

I heard that. Well, we also know, because of that impeachment trial and all the phone call information, that there were a lot of people at the State Department and other agencies who were reporting on being concerned about Hunter Biden's involvement with Barisma in Ukraine. So, to Eddie's point, he wanted, like, that's the interesting thing here.

It's like, almost if they had found 500, it makes it look like more of like 500 in a box of 10,000 documents. A mistake. When you find ones very specific to issues Joe Biden is connected to, like Ukraine, you start going, well, there's the intent. Well, I mean, that Donald Trump didn't have.

Of the three things, it's Ukraine. That they haven't been able to prove any intent with Donald Trump. Iran, and then the United Kingdom, which means that one is the concern, like you said, we were accused of spying on Angela Merkel. So is this, were we spying on them too?

Yeah. And a vice President has no authority to declassify anything, nothing. So I think from a prosecution standpoint, I can't imagine Jack Smith saying, I'm going to go after this against Donald Trump. And there's no way, and they're not going to go after Biden on this, obviously, but this shows you folks what happens. You know what also shows you what Logan said, when these people leave government, it's quick, it's out, and things happen. But this is SEI, which just is, where's the raid on that one? Where's the raid on his house? I doubt it.

Welcome back to Sank Hill. We are joined by a great friend of the American Center for Law and Justice and the broadcast, Congresswoman Claudia Tenney of New York, who was first elected to serve at the United States House of Representatives in 2016. And she's been a lead on taking that money that was, again, putting that inflation reduction act to build up the IRS with 87,000 new agents at $80 billion and using it for something good like border patrol agents and ICE and making sure they have the resources they need. So we're talking about that because she's got new legislation on that now that the Republicans are in charge of the House of Representatives.

But I think we want to go to the topic one right away. Congressman, thanks for being with us. I wanted to ask you before we get into the particulars on defunding these IRS agents, which our entire audience is with you 100% on, your reaction to now the Department of Justice and now these leaks that are coming out that President Biden, when he was a former vice President, did not have clearance to waive security clearances, had on his purse or in his foundation's offices, SCI material, including SCI material, which is sensitive compartmented information, high level of classification on Iran, Ukraine of all places, and the United Kingdom. Your reaction to this information?

Well, obviously, this is outrageous. And what's really the worst of this is that it was known before the midterm elections, the Justice Department knew, and they didn't do anything to get this out. This is purely political. And it's something that needs to be investigated. It's why I support the Republicans creating a new church style type of committee, the church committee formed after Watergate to go in and investigate what's going on with the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Justice, our own powerful arms of government that are spying on our own citizens, going after our own citizens in a political way, not based on equality.

And this is what's incredible is that these are politicized arms, you know, attacking President Trump. Why haven't we attacked Joe Biden's home? What about the documents that Joe Biden has when he was vice President that are under seal at the University of Delaware? Why aren't we going through those documents?

Oh, why? Because he's a Democrat, and we have Democrats in charge of the Justice Department in charge of the FBI. And they're highly partisan. And they're basically, not only did they collude with Twitter, we know they got together with Twitter to either censor thought, censor Twitter feed, they also with meta Facebook.

I mean, this is this is really problematic. And the American people should be completely outraged at what's happening right now and what's being exposed by by this good reporting, actually. I agree with you, Congresswoman Titi, you know, it's time to investigate the investigators. And, you know, we know that they get freaked out when that happens, when you start looking into. Oh, and then they start.

Yeah. You know, you start looking at what the McCabe's, the Strachs and what they were doing. And of course, they're just replaced by very similar people.

We know that. The bureaucracy almost just as bad as the political appointees. Sometimes worse.

Sometimes worse. Let's get to your legislation as well, because this is very important to our audience. They were outraged when this $80 billion was passed by Congress to empower 87,000 new IRS agents to come after, as was reported, mostly middle class Americans, people who can't afford tax attorneys and accountants. And so people that would be easy pickings for the IRS, if you will. We remember on their website, they had to take down that they wanted these people to be armed and ready to use deadly force when they were doing recruiting for that. And you've got legislation. You're going to reintroduce the Redirect Act. Tell people about that. Yeah, great.

Well, thank you. And yes, these people who are against the Second Amendment are all for arming the bureaucrats in Washington, particularly the IRS agents. And I said this many times, our system of justice, you two are lawyers. I'm also a lawyer. Our system is founded on the very principle that you are innocent until proven guilty. But the IRS always operates as if you are guilty until proven innocent. We're finding out the FBI works much that way as well as the Department of Justice. But what we had all of a sudden, I was like, oh, wait, we're going to put 87,000 new IRS agents. And there's like, well, we haven't had an increase, the Democrats claim.

Well, guess what? We have modern technology. We have the internet. We don't need all these IRS agents. So much of this has been digitized. And secondly, they're saying, well, you know, we needed to upgrade and get and start going after these millionaires and billionaires who aren't paying for their, you know, paying their taxes.

And we found out that they're like, oh, and this didn't all go to that. Well, let's say the IRS would have about 165,000 new people altogether, which is nearly the size of the US Marine Corps. That's what they're going to do with a federal bureaucracy.

And let me lay this out. Every one of those people is going to be potentially armed, maybe because they need to go do audits. But every one of those people is going to get a very high salary plus pension plus health care, all at the cost of the taxpayers. And the truth is that the people who end up getting audited tend to be people who make $75,000 or less and about and they're claiming, oh, only 45 million of that was going to be for enforcement. But why are we spending 80 billion to collect a modest share? It's because they want to grow the bureaucracy.

That's how Democrats gain power. They have grown the federal bureaucracy. You come to beautiful Washington and see these wonderful historic buildings. You know what's surrounding us?

These massive brutalist style buildings that sort of cloud out the beauty of our original conception. And they're filled with bureaucrats who have more power in many cases than the own American people. That is the big problem with government right now. You know, I wrote a book coming from a number of years ago called Undemocratic and how unelected bureaucrats are running our government.

And it's true. And listen, I worked for Treasury at the IRS, the chief counsel's office of the IRS. It was 40 something years ago. It was a long time ago. The irony of all this to me is when you look at this, I've said the IRS is an institution incapable of self-correcting. We did those cases when they were targeting the tea parties. As soon as Biden came back in and we got an injunction and we got monetary damages and everything was fine for about four years. And then the moment President Biden is sworn into office, Christians Engaged was the group that got it.

A friend of ours, Kelly Shackelford's organization handled the audit request. It was outrageous. They said they came up with a lexicon of initials. D equals Republican.

W was the word of God. I mean, an agent is even thinking about this was outrageous. We filed a FOIA request. We're in federal court right now. And now the IRS is finally having to hand over documents, but you're absolutely right. The bureaucracy's totally out of control. Throwing more money at it doesn't solve the problem.

No, I agree. And also the IRS, I'm also a bank attorney and a tax attorney. So I represented a lot of small businesses. I represented various banks in my, many years ago when I first started my practice.

And I represented a lot of people who were small business owners, but you know, people that may have had a couple million in sales to companies having two or 300 million in sales. Those people technically typically didn't have to worry about audits because they could afford to hire us to go in and make sure that we got things cleared up. But, you know, the IRS selectively goes after people just as you, as you identified. It's much like that, the whole situation where they went after the, you know, President Trump's lawyer and claim that he violated the safe harbor rules. They actually prosecuted him criminally. And, you know, this was, you know, he actually got a benefit through working in the Trump organization where he should have paid the taxes. But in most cases, if I were dealing with the IRS in a case like that, they probably would have called me and said, first of all, this was a mistake. I'm assuming I don't, I didn't get into the heart of the case. He was prosecuted by the very politically charged Latisha James from New York, the attorney general who turned civil actions into criminal actions, which is what she was trying to do to the Trump organization. Every member of the Trump family and anyone associated with President Trump.

But this is where it's dangerous. If you can turn civil actions into criminal actions. I'm just saying, my experience with the IRS, that would have likely been a phone call to say, hey, you owe the, this is what you owe, correct your return, pay the money, maybe even pay a penalty, pay interest on it, and we move on. You said a key thing there, and that is phone call. Let me tell you what they don't do.

Return phone calls. I mean, I can't tell you how many IRS tax preparers and auditors and CPAs and tax lawyers have called and said, we can't even get them to respond. Yeah. I mean, this is a huge issue with the American people. And yet the smallest amount of funds that was in this legislation to, you know, for the $80 billion was to modernize the IRS. I think that most of the Republican legislation wants to keep, it says if you can actually do that, fine, do that. And that, but again, for the Democrat purposes, that was not the goal here.

I want to ask you another question. That was about the rules package that got passed. So we got, so there was a lot of talk about this as well. Do you think this is, it was, it was good that these rules, because you get both sides of the media, that it kind of re-empowers members of Congress? Look, I, this rules package was presented to the, we've been debating each one of these different rules that were ultimately in the rules package since election day. So members elect have been going through this, the new members of Congress that were coming in for their first midterm. We debated these, we voted on these in conference.

There was a very minimal change when we actually got to the floor last week when you saw the excitement with these rules. And, and the really the major substance of change was this thing called the motion to vacate the chair. That means that a member can go to the floor, make a motion to vacate the chair and cause a vote on the speaker.

So that instead of five members, we went and brought it back to one, which by the way, it had, it had been historically. The question is, you know, if you said, oh, we're going to go down every day, you're going to have someone make a motion to vacate the chair. But remember, you still have to get members to come back in and vote on that.

And it's going to be interesting because I just don't think, I don't, you know, it could potentially be abused, but I just, I just think any member that's going to go down and when they don't get everything they want, they're going to do this motion. I think that it's going to lose its luster and I think it's going to help us actually stick together. We appreciate that Congressman. Thanks for your hard work on behalf of all of us. We look forward to your legislation moving forward and we appreciate your comments today.

That's Congresswoman Claudia Tinney of New York's 24th Congressional District. Thank you, Congressman. We'll be right back on Secular. After nearly 50 years Roe vs. Wade, the tragic ruling that manufactured a so-called right to abortion has been overturned by the United States Supreme Court. This is the moment the ACLJ has been fighting for. It's the biggest victory we've achieved in our three decade long fight against the soulless abortion industry. And believe me, abortionists like Planned Parenthood are devastated. This victory would not have been possible without the steadfast prayer and support of ACLJ members like you. On behalf of the entire ACLJ, I thank you for standing with us against the abortion industry and helping us save defenseless babies. I thank you for making this victory possible and I ask you for your continued prayer and support as we continue to battle against barbaric new abortion laws across our nation. Welcome back to Secular. We're going to take your phone calls. 1-800-684-3110. Let's go to Jerry in Rhode Island.

Hello, team. On your analysis on the hypocrisy of the FBI documents, it's amazing, except you're forgetting two things. Six months versus six years and Secret Service protected the closet with the extra lock. University of Pennsylvania protected the closet where the documents were and Jay's comment about the timing one week before the re-election, I found that illuminating.

Well, I mean, look. First of all, there's a doctrine in law called the doctrine of unclean hands and you know what the government should do? If you're the government lawyer, you know what you do right now? You say, we're going to deal with the President, former President Trump, as a civil matter, get the documents returned, however they're appropriately to be done. The same thing with the current President because it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, you can't do this, and there's a difference. The former President was the President, which means he had the ability to declassify.

The Vice President had no such ability. And then you find out, look, it's Washington, so it all leaks out. Now we're finding out it's Ukraine. Now there's three things you need to know about Ukraine. Hunter Biden and Burisma, okay?

That's number one. That was Ukraine. Number two, get rid of that prosecutor or else you don't get the billion dollars. That's Vice President then Biden in Ukraine telling that to Poroshenko. You don't get that money unless you get rid of the prosecutor who, by the way, was gone in six hours. And number three, a three week impeachment trial that Jordan and I did on the floor of the United States Senate on the issue of Ukraine.

And that happens to be the documents they find. Yeah, just because President Trump mentioned what President Biden did in Ukraine with his Vice President and about his son. And the incoming new, which was Zelensky, the new administration in Ukraine about whether or not they were still being pushed around to make these deals. Could this be the Democrats are jumping on this too to get him out? I mean, there's certainly a group that does not want him to run again. I'm talking about President Biden.

Yeah, of Democrats. He was at his strongest point, I think, ever in the last couple weeks. Midterm, after midterm.

And even with the Ken McCarthy last week, that taking a week and all of that, he was utilized. The economy issues, again, that remains to be seen. But he's about to announce. So, does this, he just got it, it just happened like in Mexico. This is going to dog him because he's at these events and the reporters are shouting out, did you mishandle classified information? He's not answering right now, but they're going to have to answer.

It'd be very interesting what they say. We're taking your calls. 1-800-684-3110. Tim's calling from Tennessee on line 2. Hi, Tim. Hey, guys.

Thanks for checking the call. So, real quick on this, been in this world for a lot of years. And one of the things I was kind of curious about is since Obama did sign the executive order to 13-526, that allows for anyone who is the original author or custodian of that to declassify it. That could mean that really anybody who was in that state. It was classifying it. They could classify the document as, correct? No, to declassify classified information. The only person that could declassify that would be if it went, is the President of the United States. Yeah, I mean the originating agencies take the reasonable steps.

You can go through a process. There's a process, but the Vice President can't do that on his own. This was specifically related to Russia. So, listen, if that clause was protecting Joe Biden, this wouldn't be a story right now. That's right, but it's not.

Yeah, so that was a good question, but it doesn't apply there. It's interesting to look at that and wonder, that was more to go after Trump, and I don't think it has any application here, at least as of right now, because they would have relied on that immediately. It's an interesting, the thing I keep going back to, you're going to kind of line up here, which is what's so interesting to me anyways, is that you had, they raid the Presidents through a search warrant, so they executed a search warrant to get into President Trump's personal residence, which is at Mar-a-Lago.

His home is where his club is, and they execute this search warrant that had secret service protection and all that as the callers upset. And then they say, we got these classified documents. Then they say, they go for a motion to hold the Trump people in contempt, which the judge refuses. While that's all percolating, okay, this information, the lawyers for President Biden say, whoops, we got classified documents too when he was vice President, including SCI material, specialized, sensitive compartmented information, very high level of classification. And what's interesting with all of that, they don't get their motion to contempt. The judge denies it. So if you're the Department of Justice and you're the Attorney General right now, and you did refer this to the Chicago Attorney General, a U.S. attorney who was a holdover from the Trump administration, going after the former President for these documents, mishandling these documents with the Hillary Clinton history, David Petraeus, and now Joe Biden as vice President, none of these people were President. No, the person who has the best case to make that I have the power to have these documents is Donald Trump. He's the only person that can even make that case. I think that's right.

Well, no, it is right, because that's the way it works. But it's the irony that it's now leaking that it's Ukraine, of all places, with the Hunter Biden information, with Burisma, with the, like I said, the Attorney General there, who Biden gets fired. And then the UK one is very interesting to me. What do you would have on the United Kingdom unless we were engaged in some kind of efforts? Well, yeah, I remember under that administration, we did get caught. We were tapping Angela Merkel's phone. Trump's a big ally in the United States. Obviously, you spy on allies.

We know that. What do you think the political ramifications of all this are, both for the President and for the former President? It helps President Trump. Disaster for President Biden. Disaster?

Yes, because he's going to be dogged with this question. Took off an entire ad campaign that could run against President Trump. Can't run anymore. Explain that. Well, you can't run ads saying he took classified documents and put our nation in peril when Joe Biden did.

So that's it. So it takes a big issue. Also, when you're talking about that middle of the road voter and you're trying to make Donald Trump extreme and crazy and out of control, well, hello. A guy who had less authority had documents about Iran, not some letter he wrote to Kim Jong-un. So you think that politically, for Joe Biden, does it dog him enough that he gets serious opposition from the Democratic Party? That's going to be the question.

Does he get support? We saw immediately pundits try and give him coverage and say it's not as many documents and blah, blah, blah. But then now it's starting to leak out, as Washington does, what the documents are about. And it doesn't mean 10 pages, like you said.

Right. Ten documents, they're in file, so that could mean hundreds of pages each. So thousands of pages we could be talking about here. They even tried to use Beau Biden's funeral as a way to cover this. Oh, because those documents, they just mean he had a box of documents. When they went into Mar-a-Lago and executed Warren, they said that it was personal documents, they acknowledged it was personal documents, they gave them back or said they would give them back. But they executed a search warrant on a former President. Yeah, so why not execute a search warrant on a current one? You think the Department of Justice is going to do that?

Of course not. No, not under weak Dean Merrick Garland, who actually I think is their own worst nightmare. Because they pushed and pushed him to go after Donald Trump over things that were not worth going after. If you don't like him, go after him politically, but you need to try and prosecute him. They pushed him to do that, and now look what they found. The Vice President, now he's President, but when the Vice President had no power to declassify, can't even make those arguments, has got documents about Iran, has got documents about Ukraine, has got documents on the UK, in his own private office that was controlled by the University of Pennsylvania. I think the ramifications of this, I think from a prosecution standpoint, I can't see them bringing, I think that case is over with. Because they're not going to do anything on the Biden stuff, you can't do it on Trump. Because, oh, we're going to go after Trump now because he had more documents, except he was President. Politically, you'd just be building him back up into a major force. Yeah, if you're Donald Trump, maybe you're hoping they do that. Yeah. All right, that'll do it for today's broadcast, folks. If news breaks, we'll get information to you at ACLJ.org. Support the work also at ACLJ.org.