Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. This is the Matt Slick Live. If you're a new person tuning in, Matt Slick is my real name. It's not a radio name.

Every now and then I'll just mention that because, hey, I learned to pay for that name as a kid getting chased. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, I want to hear from you. Also, if you want, you can email me at info at karm.org.

Info at karm.org. I can then read your comment or whatever it is, question, on the air if you want to do it that way. All right, I want to, let's see, who was it? Someone gave me a $5 ramble, ramble, rant yesterday.

I forgot who that was. I was talking to the Mormon guy and so I really focused on that. We have a thing, what we do is we're going more and more to rumble. A lot of conservatives are going to rumble because the liberals who tell us to be tolerant and then punish us for not being tolerant the way they want, they don't like conservative speech.

They don't like the conservatives, et cetera, and so they get rid of us and penalize us. More and more, just going over to rumble. If you go to rumble forward slash matt slick live, all one word, mattslicklive at rumble, just rumble.com forward slash mattslicklive. You can check out the feed, the video, because I put a camera here in my office while I'm on the air.

While you're driving, don't watch it, but if you're at home or podcast later, you can watch it there. All right, so we do ask that you would follow us on rumble. I know that a lot of people already follow us on karm and mattslicklive is a sub channel of karm on rumble, but if you could follow us on the mattslicklive radio show thing, it just helps us to know what the count is, what people are doing and how it's progressing, that kind of stuff.

Not a big deal, but it does help us. All right, and let's see, we had one caller coming in and now we have a different one coming in, so I'm not sure what's going on there. We do have some radio questions. Today is Friday and a lot of times on Fridays I do hate mail and whacko mail.

We'll see if we get to some of those and how that goes. I'm not sure who is waiting online on the phone. I'm just going to jump on the phone and get to whoever this is.

Don't have the info. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey Matt, this is Adam. Hey Adam, how are you? So what do you got ma'am?

I'm doing good. I'm in this other group and this thing come up. It says the son is very God of very God. The spirit is very God of very God, but the father is not very God of very God.

And I'm trying to figure out, would that just be the ontological Kennedy because we know that the father is... I don't understand what the phrase would then mean when it says the father is not very God. So you'd have to ask whoever it is who said it or the place that wrote it and say, what do you mean by this?

And that's the key. What do they mean by it? Different people will say different things out of historical creeds and sayings and the Holy Spirit is very God is one of those kinds of statements when they say the father's not like what? So now I'm not sure what's going on and you'd have to ask them.

Yeah. All right, well I'm going to clarify a little bit because it says down here that I believe that the father is very God, but not of very God of very God. This is St. London Baptist confession chapter two, but they're not a language that kind of facilitates that because I really want to ask, okay, what are you talking about?

The ontological or the economic Trinity? We can have some different discussions there, but I don't know how you would say that. Because if the person is saying he's very God and the Holy Spirit is of very God, then you have to ask what they mean by the word of.

Do they mean that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the father and it's part of the, it's called eternal procession or eternal generation of the son. Uh, what do they mean by it? Uh, sometimes people will take a phrase from a church father or whatever, a creed, and they will use it and they think they understand it. Maybe they do. Uh, maybe they don't.

You know, he's going to find out and you've got to ask questions. So that's what I would do. I would, I would talk to them and just say, what do you mean by this? How, how was that explained? Please clarify. That's what I would do. Thank you very much, Matt. Yeah, it's a good question. It means you're paying attention and so good stuff. Let me know what, what call me back from time ago.

Yeah, I asked them and this is what they said. That'd be interesting to talk about. Okay. All right, buddy.

God bless. All right, let's get to Mike from North Carolina. Mike, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Um, I sent you an email, um, about the, uh, origins of this, um, madness of transgenderism and how evil it is and how, I mean, this is things that are demonic, but it dates back to the 1950s. I don't want to get into details on it cause we're on the radio and little people listen to it, but there's something that people need to look this up because this has infected the medical profession. It has infected psychologists. So if, if, if a kid comes home and of course it's down to being indoctrinated in schools, if a kid comes home and says, I think I'm, I'm the other gender, uh, and the parents take them to a psychologist, you don't know if that psychologist has been indoctrinated with this madness because it is in the psychological and the medical profession.

But the people to look up are Arthur Kinsey. Well, wait, I don't know. I don't know what, who you're talking about and what names.

It's a very delicate issue. So I'd rather you sent me the information. I could verify it. So I just don't know what you're saying. I don't know what's going on here. I'm very cautious about this.

These are the people that originated this stuff. Oh, John, could you, could you send it to me seriously? Because I actually am working on a kind of a script issue for a video I want to do on trend on, on transgender stuff. So I am definitely interested in, Oh yeah, I'm not kidding. And uh, once I get a bunch of stuff set and ready, cause it, it's so difficult doing all the tech stuff on my own.

It is so exceedingly difficult. There's taken me so long to get to the place where I need to be, but send it to me because I definitely am interested. Okay. I personally, maybe I'll write some articles. I tell you what I could tell cause I remember you're very passionate about this and I'm not knocking that at all.

I get it. So if you want to, you could send, you could, the reason I'm passionate is because I went to the doctor the other day and the nurse that was there was telling me about her, her nephew, a 14 year old boy, apparently came home, told his parents that he was transgender and they took him to a site to a psychologist and the psychologist was saying, well, this boy would be better off going ahead and going through the transition. This is crazy.

I told that woman, I said, you better get that, get that kid away from that psychologist. Yeah. Well this is a, that's why, that's why I've become so passionate because I actually came in contact with the situation.

Yeah. Well, Hey, I had a couple, three years ago there was a girl transitioning to a guy and came over and it was a friend of mine, one of my daughters. So we had to deal with that and it wasn't a problem.

We're able to deal with it adequately, but I'm very aware of it and I do want to have more information on stuff because I'm probably going to start writing articles and sections on dealing with transgender and if seriously, if you would just in anybody who's listening, if you have articles or if you have things in the local news where you're at, something that I can go check out, don't send me a video. Here's the video. It's a three hour video here. That's where it's at.

I'm not going to look at it as three hours. You have to say, here's the video at 27 minutes is when you got to start watching, you know, then I'll, I'll do it. But if people want to do that and send the information to info at karm.org, I will collect it together into a file. And then when I start working on the transgender stuff, I will that they already have on Karm. I have a section there. Let me get to the site that includes sexuality and LGBTQ and let's see where is that under secular issues and it's homosexuality and LGBTQ probably just going to change it just to LGBTQ and I have, wow, I have a lot of articles there already. I didn't even know I had that many. Well, a lot of stuff.

This is an easy, this is an easy name to remember. If the name John money comes up, all a person has to do is the John money twins, do a research, John money and twins and the experimentation he did with two boys. It is sickening. It'll make you want to vomit. Well, there's a lot of us can make me want to, well, this is back in the nineties.

One boy later on committed suicide, died of a joint overdose. You know, children are listening. So, um, you know, I just want this to be a G P G rated at most. Uh, so, okay.

Uh, send me the information. Okay. I have a lot of, uh, a lot of stuff. I do have a lot of stuff already written in that category. It was homosexuality to begin with. Now it's, I'm going to change it to LGBTQ only so that people can check things out.

And, uh, there's a lot of stuff. I've been saying for years before this was even an issue. I've been saying, I've been radio for 18 years and I've been saying this for as long as I've been on radio, that, uh, the sexual thing is what's going to be the means to oppress the Christians. It's going to be the powerful and it's going to oppress the Christian church. And because the Christians are so afraid, don't know how to do anything.

We're just gonna get stomped on. And I've said to people, don't be surprised if they come to my door and arrest me because I've said I won't use someone's pronouns that they want, or it's a guy transitioning to a girl. I'm still going to call him a guy. Oh, you can't do that. That's, you know, it's illegal. You know, they're saying you can't have your freedom of opinion and speech based on religious, uh, priorities.

You're not allowed to do that. They're working to get rid of all of that stuff. So it's already a problem. No. Yeah. Yeah. Canada is, uh, it's not the land of the free.

That's for sure. It's a socialist regime. There are people in control. In fact, um, we have a, we have Friday meetings, we have a guy in Brazil, and he just told us this morning that, uh, there's a new leader in Brazil who was let out of prison and he was very guilty of the crimes he committed. And then the extent president who's rerunning, uh, he had to flee the country and he, there's a warrant for his arrest out.

But the guy who got out of prison is now the president and they had to spit past special laws or something so that that guy in prison could run and be president. And so it's just an obvious corruption to control the, the, uh, the country. And he's told us today that they're having a group of people that they are going to be the ones in charge of Brazil to say what is and what is not misinformation. So they'll be in control of all the, the, uh, the media outlets and saying, this is misinformation. You can't say it.

And, um, and of course they're all leftists. So this is happening. This is out of the ministry of truth out of the novel 1984 and it's going to, it's coming to us. So I keep saying this, the same thing, Christians, it's way past time to stand up and revolt.

I don't mean to use violence. I'm not saying that, but, but petition marching in the streets. We have the right to do that. And Christians need to be organized and they need to go forward.

They need to do it. And, but you know, Christians are just too busy bowing before the blonde hair, blue eye, Caucasian surfer, Jesus waiting for the preacher of rapture in church is Sunday morning only, you know? So I'm with you. There's a break. So email me this stuff. Okay. All right.

All right. Hey folks, there's the break. And if you want to give me a call, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. We'll be right back. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, all they're going to do is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let me, uh, jump in and do, uh, some radio questions and stuff like that that people do send in. One person says, uh, uh, let's see, enjoy listening to your show. Heard you're considered leaving YouTube.

We're not leaving. Uh, totally. We're just, um, uh, for this radio show, we have to move along because, uh, I say things about COVID for example, I don't, um, uh, I don't trust the vaccines. That's just my opinion. And if you've taken it, Hey, that's your thing. I don't care.

I'm not going to look at your weird or anything. Uh, I don't trust it. And so I've not taken it.

My wife won't take it. And, uh, I think that the COVID, uh, pandemic, which I call a plan. Demic was used by the left to gain control of power. That's what I believe. Okay.

So if I was on YouTube right now and we're not, cause I have to pay the break, we, we, uh, switch, uh, they would probably, uh, say I've broken the rules and then I couldn't, uh, I couldn't be on it for you anymore. So that, that's a problem, that kind of stuff. But anyway, so you've been called to be a light in the world. That's true.

I said he said the hill. That's correct. And we do, uh, want to, uh, do more and more what we're trying to do. The reason we were on YouTube for the first quarter of the hour, and then we stopped the send out there is because we want people to move over to, um, to rumble. That's it.

And we still have statistics and stuff for the 15 minutes that were on YouTube each day. So it works. It's a, it's a strategy.

At least in rumble for now, uh, the conservatives aren't being penalized because they doubt the legitimacy of the election like I do, uh, or they doubt the efficacy of the, the vaccines like I do of the COVID one particular, not, not, not any other ones. I've done a lot of research on this stuff or, oh, you know, it's just stuff like that. And so these are my opinions. I'm not giving medical advice.

You don't want to trust a guy in a radio named slick. You want to make your own decisions about that, but these are just my opinions. And so, uh, I'm not allowed to have those opinions apparently. So that's not a good thing to do.

I can't do that. All right. So, uh, let's get on with Adam from Arkansas. Adam, welcome. I guess you're back on.

What do you got, man? Hey, yeah, I just, uh, they put on there, it's talking about the ontological Trinity. Uh, they're saying that the father cannot be God of very God ontologically, not economically. Well, you see what they, this is the thing I could probably do an interpretation of what it is they're saying, but I think it might be leaning towards the issue of the eternal generation and the procession. And then we get into homoousius and, uh, what the 1210 and the 1054 split over the procession and things like this.

So there's just a lot there. And, um, what I would do is say, when you say of God, could you be very specific in what you mean by the phrase the father's not of God, because there is a theological perspective dealing with the nature of God, where the father and son proceed from the, from the father, the son and the Holy spirit proceed from the father. And so that's why they would say the father, the son and the spirit are of God, but not the father in that sense. Then we have to get into the issue.

Is it a temporal procession or an eternal one or a logical one or what combination of whatever. So these are deep theological issues and it sounds to me like the person might know what he's talking about or she, and, uh, you know, it's just worth a discussion. Say, well, what do you mean by this? You have to learn how to ask the right questions when you say, for example, the father is God, but not of God.

Do you mean, what do you mean by that? What's the differentiation with the word of, and I'd ask them to explain that differentiation. And another question would be the differentiation of relationship with the son and the spirit. Are they of God, the father, because there is some talk in theological circles about the father being the hierarchical head. That's the economic Trinity and that he is the one by whom the others proceed, but the procession and generation are eternal. So they have their source in the father, but they, there's no beginning. So it's an eternal condition. So this is some of the theological stuff that gets theologians get into.

I don't talk about those issues very much because they don't really help too much. And so, uh, if that makes sense, this is why I think it's worth asking those kinds of questions. Makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense. Yeah. I just want to try to make sure that I know how easy it is to fall into heresy.

I don't want to trip up ontological with the economic, but, uh, they specifically said ontological and I could say the eternal procession of the son and the spirit. I just don't want to mess it up. I want to have the right moment. Just ask questions. That's all just to say, Hey, what do you mean by this? Uh, yeah. And just ask questions.

And if they, it sounds to me like the person probably knows the theology and, uh, just ask questions about it and say, Hey, I want to know, and please explain this and just ask more questions and see what they say. Okay. Sounds good, Matt. I really appreciate it.

No problem at all, man. Or have them call the show and then we can talk about it and say, well, what do you mean by that? You know? Yeah.

Cause I could probably, I could probably guess what they're talking about, but, uh, you know, I just want to make sure. Okay. All right, man.

God bless buddy. Okay. Hey, if you want to give me a call, folks, we have wide open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

I want to hear from you and let's, uh, let's get some more, um, uh, emails because I like doing emails. Uh, and this person, uh, Pat, I'll just leave that to hopefully Pat's still listening. Uh, we're trying to strategically gain followers in a more conservative area.

We're not knocking all of those, the other ones, but, uh, not stopping them. Hope that helps. Let's see.

How about this? Um, how do angels fight against each other? I don't know.

Uh, I don't know. In Frank Peretti's novel, he said, uh, if I remember correctly, when I read it, this present darkness, the angels had swords and it would fight each other. In my novel, the influence, the angels would fight each other without weapons. They just use their natural, uh, uh, figures to clause their hands and things like that and their feet. Uh, and of course, you know, you have to take a lot of liberty in fiction, writing things like that, to be able to say, well, they have hands and feet. Well, do they? No, but they manifest, uh, to us in that form.

I just use that and that. So in, in my novel, they would fight physically in that sense so we could understand what was going on. So that's it, uh, from bare hands to guns or bombs is what we use.

That's right. What type of weapons and angels cause we don't know. Do they shoot forceful laser beams from their eyes and hands? Uh, yeah, so it was a good, good question, but we don't know. The Bible doesn't tell us. So there's a struggle of some sort.

And since they are not of us in the ontological sense, then the, the method of battles would be different that we just can't comprehend. And then a person wrote, uh, is the certificate of debt in Colossians 2 14 or afraid to a person's sin debt or to the law of Moses? Thanks. Bill I believe it's the sin debt. Uh, in Colossians 2 14 it says, um, Jesus having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees, which was hostile to us.

He took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. And so, uh, the certificate of debts, I believe it's a sin that it was canceled at the cross. Not when you believe is canceled when Jesus did his work. And I have to teach this to a lot of people that the efficacy of the cross is not made valid by your action. It's made valid by Christ's action. And then you receive what is already done and it doesn't become real at that point.

It always was. And we're justified by faith, not, uh, sins aren't cleansed by faith. It doesn't say that. It says we're justified by faith.

That's what's interesting. Hey folks, we'll be right back. Jesus freak 48. Thanks for the rant. Five bucks. Appreciate it. Hey, that was great. We'll be right back folks. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, welcome back to the show.

Let's see. I did a little bit of that, uh, with the email stuff. I want you to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Someone wrote and said, hello friend. Can you please stop misrepresenting what they don't understand? Uh, no, it's, and then this person put some videos up or some links to a Catholic guy teaching and how, uh, anyway, so I don't want to, but the guy's asking, uh, so hello friend, can you please stop misrepresenting what they don't understand?

So I don't know what he's talking about. And, uh, having said that, let's move along. Uh, okay.

There we go there. And, uh, let's see. Let's see.

Uh, this was a question meant for Matt to answer in a radio. Okay. I understand that verse. Let's see.

Wait a second. Galatians five, three through four. Okay.

Uh, okay. Galatians five, three through four. The guy says, uh, guy or girl says, um, that he believes you can't lose your salvation. So how do you interpret Galatians five versus three and four?

This is what it says. I testify against every man who receives circumcision, that he's under obligation to keep the whole law. You have been severed from Christ.

You who are seeking to be justified by law. You've fallen from grace. So one of the issues here is that a lot of people understand or just assume I should say is they assume that a fallen from Greece grace means that you were saved. Where does it say in the Bible that, uh, fallen from grace means you lose your salvation.

Now I asked this kind of question, not because I want a gotcha question, but because it's a legitimate question. If you're going to assume the position of fallen from grace means that you're no longer saved, then you have to demonstrate that that's the case. And where else does the phrase occur? So if we're to do a search right now, fallen from grace, and I were to go through and look in the entire Bible, it occurs in Galatians five four and no place else. Now here's a problem with this kind of a thing is that if a word or phrase occurs only once in a specific place, in this case, fallen from grace occurs only once, uh, then does it, then what does it mean? You have to look at the context because you can't look elsewhere to see how the word or phrase is used in order to gain a better understanding of, uh, of its usage. So, so now we have a problem. What happens a lot of time is that when people, what they'll do is they will assume a certain position and then just work from the position.

They have the right to do that, but it doesn't mean that it's correct. Is it possible we have to ask questions? Is it possible that someone could fall from grace and still and never have been saved? It's just a question. Take for example, Judas and Judas was a devil from the beginning. Go to the end of John six, 65, I think it is. And you can, you can see how he went out and he was because Jesus knew those who were never his.

Okay. Well, Judas as an example, experienced the grace of God in the person and work of Christ. Now, grace is the unmerited favor. Christ called him, Christ blessed him. Christ gave him authority to do various miraculous things. He was incredibly gracious to him and yet he was never saved. Another thing is that the grace of God is manifested in covenant. A covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties.

So if grace is a, um, an aspect of God's kindness to us in a covenant relationship, can it be said then that all the Jews were under the grace of God in their covenant with God in that Old Testament economy? And the answer of course is yes, but it doesn't mean that they were all saved. So you see, when you start looking at the phrase, you start asking questions. I'm not here to make the text become unintelligible or to confuse people. What I'm doing is trying to show people this is what you have to do when you examine something.

Don't just believe something and then move on and say, that's what it means. Cause I'll ask questions. Well, how do you know that's what it means? It's a serious question. It's not me being obstreperous.

It's just, how do you know? Well, don't show me. And people can't do it, particularly around this verse. Let's go back to the start of it and I'll show you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision.

But let's go on. Let's go to verse two, one verse before. Behold, I Paul say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

Why is that? Well, circumcision is a representation of the law. You cannot be saved by the works of the law.

You cannot be. See, Christ will be of no benefit if you work under the law and seek to be made right with God by the law. Cause that's what circumcision would be in that case. And then he says, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision. He's under obligation to keep the whole law. See, now it makes sense. Oh, because if you're going to receive circumcision, you got to keep the whole law.

And in fact, well, we'll get into that, but there's, yeah, I will. In Galatians 3, 10, this is in the same book, just a little bit earlier. Paul says, but as many as are the works of the law are under a curse for it is written, cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them. And that's a quote from Deuteronomy 27, 26. So what Paul is saying earlier in that chapter, which is really interesting, I'm going to talk about this cause it's good stuff here. And I just read to you Galatians 3, 10, as many as the works of the law are under curse. Well, look at Galatians 3, one, you foolish Galatians who has bewitched you before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

This is the only thing I want to find out for you. Did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish having begun by the spirit?

Are you now being perfected by the flesh? The circumcision issue is what he's dealing with. And he says, you foolish Galatians, who's bewitched you. This is serious language that he's saying.

It's very, very serious. And he goes on, he says, Abraham believed God and it was reckoned him as righteousness. That's in Galatians 3, six. He's saying, look, it's by faith, not by circumcision. He goes on in verse 10 and he says, for as many as are the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written curses everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law to perform them. Do Rom.

27, 26. So what Paul's doing is he's laying the case before he gets to Galatians 5, he's laying the case to the foolish Galatians who's bewitched you. This is sorcery. He says, you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. He's talking to the Galatians. Does it mean they're all saved?

Of course not. I'll show you something because notice what it says in Galatians chapter five, I testify at five, five verse three, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision. He's under obligation to keep the whole law.

Okay. That's what he had already said, right? Now you have been severed and notice the pun circumcision, severing and fact, cause that's verse four in verse 12. He goes on, he says, I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. And another way of saying it in the Greek is cut themselves off. This is Paul the apostle talking about this and you get the context and now you understand what he is saying.

This serious language that he is speaking. And notice what he says in Galatians five, four, you've been severed from Christ. You who are seeking to be justified by law. Paul is saying that by them trying to receive circumcision, they're trying to be made right with God by what they do by the law. Now here's the question. This is critical about this. Is anybody a true Christian who seeks to be justified by the law?

And the answer of course is no, you're not. True Christians don't keep the law in order to be saved. True Christians trust by faith. They trust Christ and this is what justifies them. Romans 3 28, we maintain that man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

And so this is what justification is to legal declaration of righteousness. So when he says you follow from grace, he's not talking about the grace of salvation, but the grace that the Judaizers, because they're the ones who want circumcision, they're under the old covenant. They don't understand Christ's ineffectiveness now that the true Messiah has come and died and risen, but they're still under that old covenant system and they're trying to live by that law and they're seeking to be justified by law. They're not believers.

They never, they're not believers at all. And so he says, you've fallen from grace. What he's saying to them is you've fallen from the grace that God has given you in the knowledge of the Messiah to come, justification by faith and you have had this and you've fallen away from it.

That's what's going on. In fact, when you go to Hebrews 10, 26, let me get over there. I mistyped it. I want to read you what it says there. Hebrews 10, 20, get over there. Come on.

I'll go right there. It says this, if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin. So people say, well, wait a minute. If you then are going sinning willfully after you know who Jesus is and you're saved, then there's no sacrifice for sin if you continue to sin. That's not what the text is saying. It doesn't say if you believe in your true Christian.

People read into the text so much when it's not there. There's the music. We'll be right back. I think I'll continue with this after the break. Please stay tuned. I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Hope you've been enjoying what I just kind of was getting into and teaching. I'm going to continue with this because I think it's important for people to understand it. And I made a comment and I want to explain something.

A lot of you may not have caught this. So, um, Jesus died on the cross and the efficacy of his death, his sacrifice is not dependent on you. Efficacy means the effectiveness that is manifested.

The validity of it. It's power in this context. And so when Jesus died on the cross, he actually died with sin because he bore our sin in his body on the cross. 1 Peter 2.24. He did that two thousand years ago. It's not dependent on you. And so his death is not dependent on you.

All right. So when he, uh, he did this, this means the debt of sin, the payment of sin is made. What is commonly taught in churches today is that that was finished, but you have to apply it to yourself. So here's a question. Where does it say in the place in the entire Bible that you apply the atonement to yourself by your faith?

It's a question. I do not know of any verse that says it. Maybe some of you know a verse that might hint at that. Please send it to me. Please call me up and say right here.

We can go to it. The blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin. That's 1 John 1 9. But where does it say that when we believe that that's when it's then applied to us? It does not say that, but it's what's taught from church to church to church.

See, I asked these questions because I take the word of God very seriously. I don't want to assume a position. I learned this a long time ago that, uh, you know, I had, I forgot what it was, but I had a position I held and you know, it was just what it was. And then I started reading the scriptures and it really confronted me and it forced me to change some positions and some other things like this have happened. Like when I went to Romans 5 18, it's a long story.

I've already told it many times, but I have this, this, this attitude of, well, let's go to the word. Show me that in scripture. And it's not a taunt.

It's not a childish taunt. It's show it to me in scripture because that's the standard of truth. If anybody could show me in scripture where it says that the atonement of Christ has applied to you when you believe, please show me. I know I don't know that. Now maybe it's there.

Okay. I'm not saying I know for a fact it's not because I can't see it. I don't have all verses memorized in scripture, but I don't know of it. I've never seen it.

No one's ever shown it to me when I've asked. So if that's the case, then what's going on with the nature of the atonement? This is a problem I see in Christian churches today and particularly in this super important area of theology. So many people think, well, my salvation is dependent on what I do because I'm the one who has to choose. I'm the one who has to have the faith. I'm the one who has to believe and that when I do that, that's when the sacrifice of Christ has applied to me.

Well, you do have to believe. Absolutely. But also God grants that you believe. Philippians 1.29. And we must have faith in Christ. Absolutely. John 14.1.

Absolutely. And we do believe, but God grants that we have that faith. And where does it say that the atonement becomes efficacious, becomes effective when we believe? Because think about it.

It doesn't make sense to say that. Sin is a legal debt. 1 John 3.4. Sin is lawlessness. And Jesus says, you know, our Father of art and heaven, hallowed be thy name.

There's two versions of that. One in Mark and one in Matthew. In Matthew 6.12, he says, forgive us our debts.

Ophilema. Debt. Legal debt. In Luke 11.4, he says, forgive us our sins. So Jesus himself equates sin with a legal debt. Jesus does this. It's right there in Matthew and Mark.

Okay. So if he bore our sin, that means he's bearing the legal debt that we owe. Now he paid the price, the wages of his death.

He died. So is it not then the case that the debt has been paid? People will, of course it's been paid. Well, here's a question. If the debt has been paid, is it still existing?

It's a serious question and something to ask and something for you to think about. If a debt is paid for, does the debt still exist? The answer is no. If I put a TV on layaway at a local store and a friend of mine goes in and pays off the last hundred dollars and in my name and says, I'm going to pay this guy's last hundred bucks for this thing.

And I don't even know it. Okay. Is the debt then satisfied? Yes. Is it paid? Yes. Does the debt exist anymore?

No. If I'm aware of it or not aware of it has no bearing on the reality of the efficacious nature of the debt being satisfied and being paid. So when I go in to make a payment, it is not possible for me to then add a payment to that because there is no debt. And if someone says, well, it has to, the debt isn't applied to you until you believe it is. That's ridiculous.

It's a ridiculous thing to say. You go up to the salesman and you say, well, I don't believe it's paid until I believe it's paid. It's not paid until I believe it's paid. It's not applied to me and my account until I believe it is.

He's going to look at you and go, are you okay? You got a temperature or something because it makes no sense to say that. Whether you believe it or not or aware of it or not, the debt has been paid. It's been satisfied. And that's what Jesus did on the cross. So it's not made efficacious by you believing it is. Now this is not a theological perspective that's taught in churches today because they, those who deny that are teaching wrong. They're teaching it wrong because Jesus, the Bible says in Colossians 2.14, having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees, which was hostile to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. The Bible actually says that debt's paid on the cross. It doesn't exist anymore.

Now, now what? So is there a verse in the Bible anywhere that says the efficacy of the atoning sacrifice is now made actualized to you when you believe nothing in scripture that I'm aware of anyway, teaches that. Furthermore, what is applied to you when you believe is righteousness. The efficacy of the cross or the relationship of the truth of the cross or the actuality of it, the shed blood of it, the ability of Christ to pay for the sins is not made effective by you. It's made effective by him.

He did it and it was done. It was a propitiation. A propitiation is a sacrifice that removes wrath. And on Yom Kippur in the Old Testament, the day of atonement, the high priest would go into the Holy of Holies and he would have blood and he would sprinkle it on the mercy seat and he would then leave. That was the atoning sacrifice. That was the propitiatory offering. And the propitiatory offering actually removed the wrath of God from Israel for an entire year and to do it once a year. So he was actually removed by the act of the propitiation. The Bible says Jesus is a propitiation not only for our sins but the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2.2.

Now we have a problem. People say the word world means every individual. Does it? Show me where that's what it means. Show me that. How do you know it doesn't mean mountains and stars? How do you know it doesn't mean fish and birds? How do you know it doesn't mean certain individuals? How do you know it doesn't mean all individuals? How do you know what it actually means?

And I ask people this. Because if it means every individual and it's a propitiation, then every individual's sins have been propitiated. That means the wrath of God is removed from them. If that's the case, how can they be judged?

These are questions. And when I ask this of a lot of people, they just, they don't say at this point, well it's still up to you to believe. They don't think it through. Because they're so entrenched in the idea that Jesus actually removed the sin of everybody who ever lived. And it's just up to you and your wisdom and your goodness and your belief and your action and your decision to apply it to yourself and that's when it becomes real. That's humanist philosophy that's put into the churches. And that's what's commonly taught. And when I go here at a church, I hear that. I am sickened.

I just don't want to be in a church like that. And people applaud. They think it's great.

But they don't understand what it is they're saying. And they're actually inadvertently accusing God of unrighteousness. Not on purpose.

Not at all on purpose. Because what they're saying is that Christ then paid the sin debt. It's gone.

It's cancelled. But you're also going to go to hell for that same sin debt. Because he didn't believe. Why? Because you can apply it to yourself and your belief.

You can apply it. Show me that concept in scripture. Oh, you're justified. Justification is not a propitiation. Justification is the addition to you of the righteousness of God.

That's what justification is. And Philippians 3, 9 says we have a righteousness that's not our own. A righteousness that comes from God. And it's obtained by faith. Romans 5, 1, having therefore been justified by faith. Christ removed the sin debt.

Now, I put the cat out of the bag. In my opinion, I believe Christ only cancelled the sin debt for the elect. His blood is certainly powerful enough and sufficient to cleanse every individual of his or her sins.

Certainly is. But the legal aspect of the atonement deals with the legal aspect of sin. And that the sin then was transferred to Christ and he paid the price. He cancelled the certificate of debt. Colossians 2, 14.

Right there on the cross. It's cancelled. It's not made cancelled when you believe. It's cancelled when he did his work. Logic then requires us to ask some questions. Was it cancelled for everybody?

I would say no. Otherwise everybody goes to heaven. Well, you've got to believe in order to go to heaven. Well, if that's the case and you are an individual who doesn't believe in God but all of your sin debts cancel, that means your belief is ordered to believe in God in the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 and also by Christ in John 14, 1. Believe in God, believe also in me. So belief then is a command of God.

It's under the obligation of the law. And if you don't believe in God, it's a sin. So when Jesus paid for all of your sins, did he pay for that sin too? If that's not the case, then you have to find me a verse where it says all sins are paid for except the one of unbelief. You've got to find that in scripture and it's not there.

See, so these are problems. So Christ actually removed the sin debt then and if you're a Christian, he did it for you back then and he granted that you believe Leviticians 1 29 and that's when the addition to you is given of righteousness of God in Christ. See, on the cross he removed the sin and in belief you're clothed in righteousness.

Everything is done by God. He doesn't waste his blood. He knows exactly whom he has come to save. He knows who are his. Jesus says in John 6 36, all that the Father gives me will come to me. And when he comes, he makes sure it will not cast out. He knows who are his given to him by the Father and he came and canceled their sin debt. Folks, this is good theology.

If you believe this kind of theology, then you'll have less of a tendency to elevate your own self, your own ability and your own wisdom in salvation and you'll rest all the more in him and realize that he loves you because of him and the grace of God is because of him and that you're secure because of him. Amen, Amen, Amen. We're at a time.

There's the music. I'm out of here. May the Lord bless you. I hope you have a great weekend everybody and by his grace we're back on the air on Monday. Have a good one. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.