Matt Slick Live

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Please like, share, and subscribe. Hey, good to talk to you again, Matt. Um, and I'll take my answer off the air, sir. If you will, please, um, biblically define, and what I mean by that, Matt, is give me, uh, Bible references of the three eschatological standings, the pre-mid, the post, the mid-trib, and the, yeah. Yes.

Well, I don't know if I can give you on the mid because it's a very uncommon view, but pre-tribulation rapture, I can give you the verses they use out of context, if you want. That would be great, and I'm driving, Matt, so I'm going to go ahead and hang up and listen to you on the radio. Okay, sounds good, Matt. All right. All right, thanks, Matt. Bye-bye.

Bye. All right, so, pre-trib rapture. That's a common view that, um, that before the tribulation period, or at the beginning of the tribulation period, seven years, that the church, the Christians, will be raptured. And, uh, generally speaking, the verses that they use, uh, are such things that include, uh, as two men in a field, one is taken, one is left. And out of Matthew 24, 37, it says, For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah, for just as in those days before the flood, they were eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage, till the day that Noah entered the ark.

They did not understand until the flood came and took them all away. And, uh, it says two men will be in the field, one is taken, one is left. And, you know, that's so commonly used as pre-tribulation rapture. That means that when the tribulation comes, the bad stuff, the coming of the Lord, uh, that two men will be in the field, one is taken, one is left. Well, it's not about the rapture, and when you read the context, you'll find out it's not. It's the wicked who were taken, uh, and you verify that by going to Matthew, or excuse me, Luke 17. And Luke 17, it talks about, uh, the same thing.

It says, the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. They were eating, drinking, marrying, till the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed them all. So the ones who were destroyed are the ones who were eating, drinking, and marrying. And in Matthew 24, the ones who were eating, drinking, and marrying are the ones who were taken.

Two men in a field, one is taken. That's the context. And so, that's not a good verse for that. Another thing that they try, or I see, that they do is, they'll go to the book of Revelation and say, roughly, I think that's the Revelation chapter 4, the church is not mentioned, which I don't agree with.

The church is mentioned, the 24 elders of the church. That's my, my view at least. And so they'll make a view out of this. Or they will talk about how, um, let's see, how Lot was taken out of Sodom and Gomorrah. And so, before the destruction came, he got away from it. So, when the wrath of God comes, then we Christians are going to be taken out of that. Of course, that's not what happened there, because Lot was in the midst of the destruction. It was all around him.

He went through it and was preserved through it. And let's see, another verse that they use a lot is a verse way out of context. And it's 1 Thessalonians 5, 9. For God is not destined thus for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, so you see the tribulation period is the wrath of God. Now, sometimes the mid-tribbers will use this and say the second half of the tribulation period is when the wrath of God is coming.

And so, some hold to that position. It's one of the verses that could be used for that. But it says, For God is not destined thus for wrath. And so, the word wrath, they say, is the tribulation period. But it's not.

All you've got to do is read it. For God is not destined thus for wrath, but salvation. So, what's the wrath? It's damnation. He hasn't destined us for damnation, but for salvation.

That's what's going on. In my opinion, there are a lot of people who hold to pre-tribulation rapture, and I'm not knocking you, you know, if you do. I'm not saying, oh, you're not smart like me. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that I don't see it in scripture. I don't see it. I don't see where it says we're going to escape anything.

And think about this. Throughout history, Christians have gone through all kinds of persecutions. So, is it suddenly the case that we Christians here in America, we're the ones who are going to escape all this wrath and we're going to get raptured out? It's a sentiment that is very common, and in my opinion, not well substantiated in scripture. At best, it's substantiated through inference. Just inference.

Nothing I know of in scripture says we're going to escape God's seven-year tribulation period. Nothing I know. Maybe it's there. I just don't know. So what about post-trib rapture? That's the position I hold to, and I hope I'm wrong.

I really do. But check this out. When you go to Matthew 24, 1 to 3, they asked Jesus, because he was teaching, he said, tell us when will these things happen, the destruction of the temple, the resurrection of your coming, and the end of the age. So Jesus goes on, and in Matthew 24, he answers the question, and he talks a lot about various things. And many will fall away.

Lawlessness will increase. You see the abomination of desolation, verse 15. Spoken up through Daniel the prophet.

Whoever's on the housetop, not to go down and get his things. If you're out in the field, don't turn back. And it goes on like that. He says, unless those days be cut short, no life would be saved. Now, remember, what Jesus is doing is answering the question, because he came out of the temple, and the disciples asked him, well, when are these things going to be, the destruction, the return, your return, et cetera?

And he's answering this question. You've got to keep this in mind. And then he goes on, and he says, no flesh will be left. Verse 24 of Matthew 24, he says, false prophets will arise and deceive many. And it says the lightning comes from the east and the west.

Now, check this out. But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light and the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the Son of Man will appear in the sky and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and they will see the Son of Man come in the cloud of the sky with great power and glory. And he'll send forth his angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. So when are the elect gathered? After the tribulation. This is Matthew 24, 29 through 31.

That's what it says right there. He says, after the tribulation of those days, he'll send forth his angels. And, uh, okay. So people, some people say, well, no, no, no, what happens is there's two returns of Christ, kind of like maybe one and a half. He returns and kind of doesn't come all the way, just before the tribulation he grabs people and then during the tribulation period, you know, people get saved and then he returns and he sends forth his angels with a great trumpet.

So this is what they'll do. They'll say there's two returns. There's nothing in the scripture about two returns or half of a return. There's nothing like that in scripture, but they'll say that. When you go to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16, for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first and will caught up deep with him. That's the rapture.

With the trumpet. When we get back, I'll go through this a little bit more, okay? Before you give me a call, 5 Open Lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back everybody. We have 4 Open Lines, 877-207-2276. Let me just continue on with this a little bit. We'll get to the callers. As I was reading in 1 Thessalonians 4, it talks about the trumpet when Christ returns and with the great trumpet. Then, that's what it says, the trumpet of God. The dead of Christ will rise first, and we who are alive and remain will be caught up together to meet him in the clouds. Because the Bible says in Acts 1, 9-11, there's the single return of Christ. That's how he's going to return. You don't find in Scripture any place where it says he kind of halfway returns.

That's a complete invention. The Scriptures don't teach it, I'm sorry. There isn't any in the clouds, you go meet him up there, he kind of comes down a little bit. And that's pre-tribulation rapture and he goes back up. It's just not there. It's not there in Scripture. When people tell you that, yeah, you know, pre-tribulation rapture is true, and he kind of comes down in the heavens a little bit, and then you go back up to meet him. Where does it say that in Scripture?

It never says that. But let me show you one more thing. This is what's irritating to a lot of people. When I started seeing this, I was like, what?

What is going on here? Because, you know, the parable of the wheat and the tares, and the wheat are the Christians, the believers, okay? And so, you know, the harvest is at the end of the age.

But I'm going to read something here. Because they said, hey, should we tear up the tares? He says, no, you might tear up the wheat also. Allow, this is Matthew 13, 30, allow both to grow together until the harvest and the time of the harvest. I'll say to the reapers, first, gather up the tares and bind them in bundles and gather the wheat into the barn. So who's the first ones gathered at the harvest? Well, that's the wicked.

First, gather up the tares. This is what Jesus says in Matthew 13, 30. Then when you go to Matthew 13, 40, he interprets the parable that he gave.

He does. He says, the enemy, verse 39, who sowed them as the devil, the harvest is at the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Verse 40, so just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. The son of man will send forth his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and all those who commit lawlessness and throw them into the furnace of fire. So that means, wait a minute, that means the wicked are in his kingdom and it's the wheat, excuse me, it's the tares, which at the time of the harvest, which are gathered first. And then the wheat are gathered into the barn, right?

Well, this is what's going on. And people say, well, that's the rapture. I have no problem with it being the rapture because it happens at the end of the age. And yet, in Matthew 24, 29 through 31, after the tribulation, you'll see these things is what it says and the trumpet, he gathers them together. Matthew 24, Luke 17, two men in the field, that's the wicked who were taken and they ask Jesus where are they taken and he even answers the question at the end of Luke 17 where the body is the vultures gather.

That's what they're taken to. And then in Matthew 13, we see that the wicked are the ones who were taken first. And you go to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16, through chapter five, verse two, and you'll find out very simply that with the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ rise. When he comes back in the clouds, there's no double return of Christ or one and a half returns. There's only one. And the order seems to be the wicked are taken first out of the kingdom of God.

They're taken to a place of destruction and new heavens and new earth are made and stuff like that. So that's the quick and slick version of that. I hope that was interesting. Let's get on the phone here with Will from Charlotte, North Carolina.

Will, welcome. You're on here. Yes, sir. How are you? Doing all right, man.

Giving a quick lesson on something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to add to that. I don't really have a question, but I'm pretty sure, based on what I've heard you speak on before and what you're saying today, that you know and you believe that there is not a pre-trib rapture. Right. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. That's just my opinion, and I hope I'm wrong. But then you backed that a little bit and said, well, I hope so, though. I do.

I do. I don't want to go through it. That's right. No, no.

Nobody wants to go through it, but we have to be prepared to go through it. That's right. That's right.

And isn't there a place in the further books in the testament that says that if you are a certain type of Christian, a Philadelphia Christian, that you will be protected during the tribulation? Well, that's all. Yeah. I don't know that. Do you know what Philadelphia Christian is?

Well, it's out of Revelation 3. I know that. Yeah. As you're talking about. I've been there. I've actually seen the ruins of Philadelphia.

I like to brag about that whenever I can. But what in there is it that you say holds that position? It says in there that there are two things that you can do to be a Philadelphia Christian, and that is to deny Christ's name and to obey his commandments.

Okay, wait a minute. Let me get this straight. To not deny him and obey his commandments in order to do what? In order to be a Philadelphia Christian. Do you have to not deny him and keep his commandments in order to be a Christian? And obey his commandments. Whatever commandments he's ever given. And do you have to obey them to become a Christian or be a Christian?

No, no, no. You just have to obey them to have protection during the tribulation. Oh, so then you're saying that if you're being Christ's commandments, like loving God, loving your neighbor and everything in between, then the Antichrist won't get you and you'll be fine. And that you don't deny his name.

And you don't deny his name. He will protect you from the tribulation. During the tribulation.

Can you show me where that's in the text of Revelation 3, that it says that it's regarding the tribulation period? I'm going to email it to you. Okay. Can I do that?

Sure you can. Because I've got to go back and do some research. This is something I thought about when you started talking about it. Okay. Because nobody wants to hear that they're going to have to go through the tribulation. Except that people are beheaded during the tribulation period for their faith.

Yes. So you're saying they're not really good Christians then? I'm just saying that at some point or another, maybe they are and maybe they're not.

But I know I've read that. It says that there is protection for those people, Christians, believers, who go through the tribulation against ill harm. As long as they do not deny God's name. And they follow his commandments.

Or obey his commandments. Wow. Okay. So that's what you're saying. And so I don't see that as being biblical.

No. Because Christians are beheaded during the tribulation period. There's a great persecution. They are.

That's why they say run to the hills. I'm not saying that you have to be a Philadelphia Christian to be a Christian period. I wouldn't say Philadelphia Christian. Just a Christian. That's what it says in the word.

No, no, no. It doesn't say Philadelphia Christian. It doesn't say that. It says the Church of Philadelphia. That's what it says. Well, that's a Philadelphia Christian. But you've got to be careful.

Hold on, hold on. Then Sardis, right? What about Sardis Christians? Thyatira Christians? Pergamum Christians? Now we have seven different categories of Christians now? I don't think they're specifically mentioned in this particular scripture I'm talking about. But you said there was a Philadelphia Christian. Well, then there also has to be a Laodicean Christian and a Sardis Christian and a Thyatira Christians. Pergamum, Smyrna, Ephesus Christians. So now can you go through those and tell us what kind of Christians?

Now there's seven kinds of Christians apparently if you're being consistent. No, but I'm definitely going to get back with you on that as soon as I've had a chance to study this a little bit more. Okay. I think that's a good idea.

That needs to be studied more. And I want to do that as soon as I get back to my office so that I can have the scripture right in front of me. Maybe I'll get a chance to call back today. Maybe I'll get a chance to call back tomorrow. All right. Sounds good. Yeah, that'd be interesting. I just want you to be consistent.

Then you've got to go through the seven churches and find out whichever kind of Christians they were. I will. If that's your perspective. I will. All right. All right. Hmm. Interesting. You're welcome. All right.

That's an interesting call. Let's get to Jose from Texas. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Hi, Matt. Yes. I'm probably overstated. But anyway, I have another question. It's regarding Luke 16 verse 19 and 31. Talk about the wrist man and the asterisk.

Yes. So can you explain, I heard some people say that the believers of the Old Testament, they would go to this place called Hades, and that's why the wrist man, the wrist man, I'm sorry, was able to see Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham. So I guess my question is, how was that? How was that?

How was that? Can you hold on? We've got a break, okay? And so we'll get to this afterwards, because it's a well-asked question.

It's a frequently asked question. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Open lines 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show.

Let's just jump right back on here with Jose. Are you still there? Yes, I'm still here, Matt. All right, man. Okay, so do you want me to kind of explain what the theories are about that? Yes, please, if you can.

Sure. The general idea, and it's what I lean towards also, is that before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, those who died in hope of the Messiah and were faithful to God, when they died, they went to Abraham's bosom, just a holding place, a paradise, a good place. And those who were wicked went to Hades, very uncomfortable, very bad. And so when Jesus talked about this in Luke 16, 19, 231, he was talking about it, and some people call it a parable. It's not a parable.

It's Lazarus and the rich man. It's an actual man, an actual individual with a name. And he talks about this, and he's showing there's life and death after, there's life after death, that is. All right, now when we go to Ephesians 4, and we look at verse 8, therefore it says, when he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men. So, one of the things that this verse is used for is consideration of the issue. And when it says he, when he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives. That's Ephesians 4, 8. So, some think that it might be a reference to Jesus when he ascended into heaven, and that he took people from paradise, Abraham's bosom, into heaven with them. Now, along those lines, it says in 1 Peter 3, 19, when he died, and it says he was made alive in the spirit, in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison. And so, some think that that verse, 1 Peter 3, 19, might be related to Ephesians 4, 8, that he, so it looks like this possibly. I lean towards this, but I'm not going to die in this hill.

When Jesus died, he went to, well, in the afterlife, he went to paradise, went to maybe also Hades, and proclaimed, not preached the gospel so people could repent and believe, but informed them, proclaimed what the truth was, and then ascended into heaven with the people who died in faith, and then was resurrected. So, that's the general theory, the most common one I've heard. Okay? Okay. Okay. So, there you go. I gave you those references there so you could know that there is some evidence for it, but is it conclusive?

I wouldn't say it's conclusive, but there you go. Okay. But now a believer, under the new covenant, now when the believer passes from this life, they go straight with Jesus, correct? Correct.

They don't go straight with the Lord. That's right. Okay.

Now he goes straight to be with the Lord, 2 Corinthians 5, 8, to be, as for the bodies to be home with the Lord, we go be with him. Yep. Okay. Anyways, I'll take a few more verses.

I'm going to see some commentary to see what they have to say. Anyways, thanks for the call, and I'll see you next time. All right, buddy. God bless. Okay. God bless you. All right. All right.

Four open lines, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Hey, Alberto. Welcome. You got a lot of wind. Hold on. You got a lot of wind in your background there. Okay.

Now it seems to be better. Go ahead. Yeah, how come a lot of Christians always say, I'm not working for others.

Ain't that a lot of the cheapest views or the punch line for not really speaking the Lord and not really spending time in the Spirit. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. You're saying a lot of different things here.

Okay. What's really interesting about you, I'm not complaining, I'm just saying, Alberto, you call up, and I know that when you do, you're going to be asking questions about people's behavior. How come they, people, how come this, how come that? It's really interesting. But why are people saying they're a work in progress?

Because they're a work in progress. Yeah. A lot of them use it as a punch line just because they don't really, they use it as a cop-out sometimes. Oh. You know what I mean?

Well, yeah, they shouldn't use it as a cop-out. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yes, I do know what you're saying. You know what I'm saying?

Because we're going to rely and lean on that. Oh, I'm going to work in progress, but you've never seen them show up in church, once a balloon. Oh, okay. Well. They don't show up on their school class. Okay.

They don't show up on Bible studies. You know what I'm saying? Well, I just say, yeah, you're a work in progress, and it looks like the devil's working on you. That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's right. Yeah. I got a quick question, too.

Sure. Why do, why do that patients probably saw Christians and the Bible know where it says to call yourself a Christian that was the label placed on the Christians by the unbelievers. So why should Christians wear that power? Why should they use the term Christian of themselves? Well, look at that, that, that, that printed label of them, that's what they said to the call themselves Christians.

You're hard to understand. You're, you're hard to understand, but it says in Acts 26, 28, Agrippa replied to Paul in a short time, you'll persuade me to become a Christian. And Paul said, I would wish to God that it would be a long time that you'd all be as I am. So he didn't have any problem with people being called Christians.

Paul didn't. Okay. People who were first labeled them, that word, that term, Christians, who were first called Christians at Antioch, Acts 11, 26 says, who, by whom, who labeled them, who labeled them, who labeled them, it just says the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch, it doesn't say who labeled them. So what's wrong with that? Yeah, I know, but the point is, shouldn't the person, the person should, the world shouldn't determine to be labeled you by what they say, it's with the Lord himself to label you. It's apparently in scripture, it's in scripture they're called Christians, that's how we identify ourselves, it's no big deal. Okay.

Okay. I'm just saying, well, I thought the world and the church would be called friends and enemies. You know what I mean?

It was a butt-head with the world. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, but you see, yeah, but we're talking about just being called a Christian. It's okay to be called a Christian. It just means we follow Christ, both through the true and living God, the true and living Christ that we actually follow, and about your phrase, you know, work in progress.

Christians are all works in progress, but when people use the phrase as a way of getting out from any examination, you know, that's a work in progress, right, the work of the devil. Yeah. Yeah. They use God like that, but they smoke in all time, drink in all time, and I'm a work in progress, but they make no effort really to get off of it, you know what I'm saying? Yes.

You know, they always, just for more time, watching the TV or movies, but it depends more on the scriptures, you know what I'm saying? Yes. I understand what you're saying.

There's no time for movies and early things. There's an inconsistency a lot of times with people's profession and their actions, right? I get that, and that does happen, and Christians need to walk appropriately as they serve the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes. They should.

Yeah. They'll be a baby. They'll be a baby Christian in 20 years, so I've been on the milk.

A lot of people are still baby Christians after 20 years, oh yeah, because the churches are still teaching milk, not teaching good, deep theology and good issues regarding deep, proper sanctification. Go ahead. And stuff like that. Okay, hold on, man, you've got a lot of noise back there. What are you at, at a car place? I'm outside, I'm outside in the open area. All right, you can end the call now, because I'm not stopping at public, buddy. All right, buddy. All right? All right, man.

All right, thank you. Okay, talk to you later. Okay. Okay. Wow. Okay.

So, we have nobody waiting there. Wow. Alberto's interesting. You know, he calls. I remember when I was here mainly in Boise, there were some, on the radio mainly in Boise, a few years ago, there were just regulars that would call in, and there were some interesting callers. In fact, I remember this. There's something that's interesting that happened, is that people would call up. I was in several stations, not as many as I am now, but several stations in Boise, and AM FM, and out in Pocatello, and out in Salt Lake at a time, and so people would call up, and you know, they would ask me stuff. And so I tried not to let people know I was reformed in my theology. And then we had regular callers who would want to argue with me constantly. We even had people, or I don't know if one person or more, put literature on the cars at the radio station against what I was teaching.

And you know, I got a kick out of it because it was so badly written. And then people started complaining, you know, Matt's teaching, he shouldn't have him on the air. He's teaching God predestines people. Yep.

Read the verse where it says it. And that's right, but they would complain. And so that was interesting for a while. But any rate, so interesting callers. I got stories, I got stories, I got stories, but anyway, no big deal. Let's get to Bonnie from Greensboro, North Carolina. Bonnie, welcome. You're on the air. Oh, hi, Matt.

Hi. A little bit earlier, you said that you couldn't find any verses that said the church would be saved from God's wrath. Yes, that's correct. First Thessalonians 1, 10. First Thessalonians 1, 10. First Thessalonians 1, 10. Oh, that's about damnation, that's not about tribulation, it's about damnation.

Okay, well then also, but then look at First Thessalonians 5, 9. Yes, that's about damnation also because it says there, it says, so we're not appointed to wrath, but salvation, the juxtaposition. God uses the term wrath in reference to a damnation, that's what it means, the wrath of God. A lot of people have mistakenly said that the word wrath means tribulation period.

It does not. All right. Okay, well, but then in Revelation chapter 6, verse 17, says the great day of his wrath is come, and that's at the end of the first half of the tribulation. Yeah, there you go.

Now that's a better verse, that's a better verse. Now that's a wrath that is coming, but you see, you've got to be careful, because the word wrath can have what we call a semantic domain. It can have a range of meanings in different contexts. And so when people say, they'll quote the various verses, and they'll say, look, this means we move with the tribulation. You've got to look at the context to see, and it doesn't say that. Okay, well, I'll check that, but I still, I'm convinced that of a pre-tribulation rapture, and I look at Enoch. He's a picture. He was translated before the flood.

Yeah, so? Joseph took his Gentile bride. Well, hold on, let's look at Enoch was translated, yes, he was, before the flood, but Noah and his family went through the flood.

How come they weren't delivered? Okay. That's a picture of Israel being saved during the tribulation period. Israel? Noah?

No. No, he is Jesus, and it represents Christ. Yes, he is for us now, that's true, because he'll close the door when the church is complete, and that's when the father will give us some permission to come for his bride. Okay, well, let's go back to Noah. Wait, wait, you're just preaching, wait, hold on, hold on.

So you're saying that the ark was only for Israel, represents only judgment or salvation for Israel? No, no. Oh, there's a, darn it.

No, it's salvation. Okay, there's a... Call back tomorrow. Call back tomorrow. We'll have to talk to this out a little bit more, be interesting, okay? Be fine.

Because we're out of time. Sorry about that. Call back tomorrow, Bonnie.

Okay? Hey, folks, that was interesting. See, I like that.

People call it, this is great. We go through the scriptures, see what it says. And I like that. So anyway, may the Lord bless you, by his grace, we're back on here tomorrow. Hey, we'll talk to you then. God bless you. This is a program powered by the Truth Network.