Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show, Matt Slick live, and I'm your host, Matt Slick. Let's see, for the podcasters, it's March 21st, 2022, and we have five open lines if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. I can hear from you. We can talk. Anything on apologetics, Christian theology, and things like that. And if you want to, you can also, you know, there's one of the things that people don't realize is we have an email that people often ask all kinds of questions, and we have people who answer emails, and that's at info at karm.org, as well as a prayer ministry, which is prayer at karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. If you want to give us a contact and you have a question about prayer requests or some things, contact us. All right, so let's see.

Five open lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276.

I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and then we can talk. Okay, now, it looks like I'm going to be traveling down to Salt Lake City on Thursday, and I won't do the show on Thursday. That's the tentative, that's the plan right now. It all depends on a few things, but it looks like I'll be going.

So the 24th is Thursday. I'm going to be driving down and staying with a friend, Bill McKeever, actually, in Sandy, Utah, and then Friday, doing stuff, and Saturday and Sunday will be the Hindu Festival. So during those two days, Thursday and Friday, I'll be out of the studio, and Luke Wayne is the plan is for Luke to fill in those days while I'm traveling. Maybe I'll listen to him. If I'm down there, I'll listen to him. I'll call up and say, hey, I've got a question, and see what he says. Who knows?

All in fun. And back on the 28th, and should be able to do the show. And also, for the week of the 28th or 9th, 30, 31, and the 1st, I'll be on ABN Sat TV hosting a conference, or I guess you could say a talk, among different apologists. We're going to be discussing the issue of the positive confession movement as well as the New Apostolic Reformation, which I will probably start studying here in depth again. I've already done a lot of research on it, but it is so deep, and there's so many issues on it. What I could do is read primary sources and get to the quotes, because you'll hear things about different groups from different people, and okay, I get to verify them to make sure that what they're saying about others is true. So that's one of the things that I'll be working on.

So if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, and we have five open lines. So the Hindu festival will be south of Utah in Spanish Fork, I believe it is. There's a lot of Mormons that go down there. And so what that reminds me is that after the show, what I do here on the radio, and then we have people who join us in and chat either on YouTube and or Facebook.

And one of the guys last week, he was, oh boy, I keep forgetting to do that, don't I? He had a phone, and he was out in a parking lot, and he had been evangelizing, and two Mormon missionaries were there, and so I ended up talking to two Mormon missionaries after the show live, and it was fun. I read them a couple of things, and let's just say that they didn't have answers.

They never have answers. They can only just bear their testimony, and it's true, and things like that. So that was an interesting conversation, always trying to plant seeds in the hearts of the Mormons, because when I say that, I don't want people to be mad at me. If you're LDS, I know that you have a sincere faith and that you believe Mormonism is true and a restored gospel and everything, and you have testimonies and things like that. But all of those things are subjective.

All of those things are based on your feelings. You can say it from the Holy Spirit, but it doesn't mean they are. And the reason is because the enemy of the gospel can fake people out, and if you're praying to a false god, then who's going to answer you, a true god or a false god? So in Mormonism, for example, God is an exalted man from another world. He became a god, and he came to this world with his goddess wife, and he made this earth. Now, is that biblical?

Of course not. God never was a man in another world and then became a god. The Bible says from everlasting to everlasting, he is God. Psalm 90, verse 2. So when Mormons pray to the god of the Book of Mormon, and to reveal to them that the Book of Mormon is true, then ultimately they're not praying to the god of the Bible, the true god. If they're not praying to the true god, they're praying to a false god. Therefore, they'll get a false answer. Now, James 1-5 says, If any of you lack wisdom, let a mask of God.

It will give to you. Wisdom is not bearing testimony of truth, and that verse is often misapplied by the Mormons. Bear your testimony, and Jesus will bear witness of the truth.

Pray about it. It never says to pray about the Bible to see if it's true. It just is true. God always speaks from the position of truth. His word, because it's him, is always true, and the Bible is inspired from him, and it's always true. Now, some groups will say, Well, yeah, that may be the case originally, but it's been corrupted.

They don't have any evidence of its corruption. They just say that, but they haven't studied it. I know. I just know.

I've studied it a lot over the years. I know that when someone says that the Bible's been corrupted, I know they haven't studied it. I just know because they don't have any facts. They don't have anything. They're just hearing things, and they're repeating it.

They've never studied the issue. So the Bible's not been corrupted, as many false groups like to say. The Mormons say that, and Islam says it. It's always got to be that the word of God has to be corrupted in order for a new and improved revelation to be in place, a new prophet, a new prophetess, a new doctrine, a new church, a new whatever it is.

That's restored. That's what the MO is of false religious systems. They all assume that God in his great sovereignty is not able to keep his word clean and clear and preserved. No, they'll say that God in his sovereignty was thwarted by mere men and that they corrupted it.

Again, I say show the corruption, and there's no way to do it because they can't. That's another topic. But the truth is God is not an exalted man from another world, as Mormonism teaches, and he doesn't have a goddess wife, as Mormonism teaches. He does not have physical relations with her in heaven, as Mormonism teaches. It is not the case that Jesus is the brother of the devil and of you and I, the preexistence, as Mormonism teaches. It is not the case that you need handshakes and hugs and underwear to go through the Mormon temple ceremony in order to be exalted potentially to the level of a god or goddess, as Mormonism teaches.

And think about this, too. When Jesus was crucified, the veil in the temple was torn. Matthew 27, I think, is verse 53.

It says that. I'm not sure how to look. But the temple of God was torn from top to bottom. That's not the right verse.

I'll have to look on it. So the thing is, oh, there it is, 51. Behold, the veil the temple was torn into from top to bottom. The whole veil was torn, not just a little bit, but completely into two pieces. The veil was a separation between God and his holy place and the holy of holies.

That veil was destroyed by God. Why is it the Mormons put it back? If their temple is true and it represents the true God and the truth of the Old Testament and all that stuff, why do they put it back into their temple? Why does the temple not exist and that Jesus prophesied its destruction?

Well, I'll tell you why. Because Jesus' blood removed the necessity of that veil. So whenever anybody would put the veil back, then we have to ask the question, why would they put back what God destroyed? Who were they to do that? Who were they to put back into the temple, the temple that no longer is needed, the very veil that God destroyed? I don't know. Why?

Well, I know why. It's because when their prophet came along and he started speaking for God, he decided what the truth was. It wasn't resting on the word of God, but on his impressions, his proclamations, his declarations. And Mormon history has been polished and Mormon doctrine has been polished through the decades, and it has. But Mormons believe, and they have a testimony of that belief, that the gospel is true, their gospel is true, and they bear witness of Jesus, they bear witness of Joseph Smith, the truth of the Book of Mormon. Do they bear witness of the Bible?

Do they? Do they bear witness of Christ as the Savior who alone saves us, not by works, not by anything we can do, or saved by grace after all we can do, 2 Nephi 25, 23, of course not. See, we're saved by faith alone without the works of the law, Romans 3.28, and the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith is credited as righteousness, Romans 4.5. Jesus says, come to me, and I'll give you rest.

So let me ask you, if you're a Mormon listening, do you have rest in Mormonism, or are you busy doing, busy worrying about your exaltation, the forgiveness of your sins, you hope you're doing enough, you hope you're doing enough, and you're not doing enough? The true gospel is this. There's only one God in all existence, all place, all time. He was never a man in another world.

He doesn't have a goddess wife. He's always been God. He created the universe. And he's a trinity, not of three gods, but of three persons, in the one God. It's like time is past, present, future. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Time consisting of past, present, future is all one thing, one substance, one essence. But there's three like aspects of it. The same with God. He's one thing, but there's like three aspects.

We'll just leave it at that for now. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The second person became one of us, and he lived under the law, Galatians 4.4. He never sinned, 1 Peter 2.22. He did everything that was right, everything that was good. And he bore our sin and his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2.24. He died on the cross. He paid the price.

All that's left for us is to trust in what he did, not what we did. Now think about this. Think about this.

An illustration of something. Let's imagine for a moment the cross, and it's up on this hill. And you and I are approaching this cross, and the closer we get, the more humbled we are. And we drop to our knees, and pretty soon we're crawling to that cross because it's just too holy of a place.

And we're not worthy. And pretty soon, you know, we don't even bring our eyes off anymore. And we see a trickle of blood in the dirt, and we know where it came from and where it's coming from and where it flows from.

And we don't want to look up. But what we know is that that place where Christ is, that's the place where God the Father accepts the sacrifice and the atonement. That's what's acceptable to God. That place, that sacrifice, that death, that thing that Christ did, that is what is acceptable to God for the cleansing of our sins.

And then we're contemplating this in our humility before God. And a person off to one side walks up to the cross. He's not bowing low because he has something he needs to add to the cross. And he takes his baptism, his good works, his sincerity, and he nails it to the cross as well, and he walks away. Because he hopes that God the Father will accept the sacrifice and his baptism and his good works and his sincerity. So what he's doing, without realizing it, as all false religions do, is they add to the finished work of Christ their own efforts, their own goodness. But it's never the case that that place of sacrifice had anything other than Christ's work, Christ's blood, Christ's sacrifice. So if you find yourself in any way, shape, or form adding to that cross, God said, you need to trust alone in Christ and pray to Jesus and ask him for you to be complete.

Because that's the place of sacrifice and of blessing, and that's the only way it can be done. You need to trust in my faith with Christ and not by your own works added to it. Amen, Amen. We'll be right back after these messages for Open Lines. Give me a call.

We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Welcome back to the show, everyone. Why don't you give me a call? We have four open lines. 877-207-2276. How many are here from you? Give me a call. Let's talk to Noelle from Virginia.

Noelle, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. Hey, Matt. Hey. So, what do you got? Okay.

So, I can't stay online, but I wanted to ask real quick. In Matthew 25, 34 through 46, I was reading one of your CARM articles. I think it was by Luke Wayne. He said that Jesus refers to them as my brothers. So, these brothers of mine, they're believers. Well, when I was looking at Matthew 7-2, when he said, Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye? Is he referring to believers or unbelievers?

Well, Matthew 7-2 says, For the way you judge, you'll be judged, and by your standard of measure, it'll be measured to you. And verse 3 took a speck out of your brother's eye. So, what was your question about it, Noelle?

What was your question? Was he referring to, when he said your brothers, he was referring to as believers or unbelievers? Yes, because in the Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew 7, he is speaking to his disciples.

That's what it sounds like, disciples. Now, normally we'd understand it's just the people of Israel. It's possible that there might have been some Gentiles mixed in who were also following him by that time.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but normally it was just the people of Israel. That's who he was sent to. And then there's other verses that talk about this kind of thing, too. Let's see, I'll get my reference here.

It's Mark 4-24. He says, Take care of what you listen to. By your standard of measure, it'll be measured to you, and more will be given to you besides. So, you know, as we judge, we'll be judged. So we need to be careful.

Okay, yeah, that's definitely sobering. Yes, it is. And with someone like myself who does this full time and makes spiritual judgments, it's a little nerve-wracking because I have to make sure, best of my ability, that I'm judging according to God's word and not mine. It's one of the reasons I quote Scripture addresses so much. This is what it says there.

This is what it says there. And I often pray. When Charlie and I pray before the show, almost every day we do that.

And he's not on today, I don't know what's up. But I'll pray, and I'll say, very often I'll say, Lord, may the people who listen hear your words, not mine. May my words fall on deaf ears and your words, words that are true, sink into their hearts. Because the idea here is to speak truth, and the judgment that we use, whether it be a doctrinal dissertation, correction, or judging people for their salvation, we have to be very careful. We're going to be judged by the way that we judge. So that's why I think we need to be careful as Christians to do that.

Very careful. Yeah, definitely. And I just want to say you're talking about adding your work. That really, I appreciate that sort of visualization because I tend to make a little checklist for myself sometimes. So anyway, I just want to say thank you.

And thank you for... You're welcome. Okay. Anything else? We're having a slow day today.

Usually the calls kick in after the bottom of the hour, but anything else you want to ask? Yeah, I do have to get off, though, but can I ask one thing? Sure. Is it biblical to have soul ties? What is a soul tie? Yeah. See, I'm not really clear on that either. Yeah, a soul tie because it's a New Age thing, but it doesn't mean it's not something that the Christians couldn't use and just define it differently. They have something they're very, very, very, very close to.

This is a best friend. So we'll have to define our terms. People use them like, oh, what do you mean by that? They don't know?

Well, they really can't answer, but it's something to study. Okay, see what they mean by it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right.

All righty. No problem. No problem. God bless. Thank you. Bye. All right. We have five open lines.

Nobody waiting. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. She reminded me of something. I do a lot of debates, impromptu debates and discussions. It happens a lot almost every day because I'm on different chat systems and I like to get into rooms and just sit there and people ask me questions.

And it came up today of all time. This issue of how to connect ourselves to outsiders. Because I was, let's just say politely, I was listening to some Christians discuss things with unbelievers and let's just say I think the Christians were being less than charitable to them. And I can understand when some Christians are fed up with the monotony and illogic that so many people will hold to. But in light of that, there is something really important because the Bible does say, as she said, she quoted Matthew 7-2, when the way you judge you'll be judged. Colossians 4-5 says, conduct yourself with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace as though seasoned with salt so that you may know how you should respond to each person. This is a verse, that's Colossians 4-5 and 6.

So it's 4-5-6. Colossians 4-5-6. And it's a verse that has been echoing my heart and mind for a few years now and more and more lately. When I have conversations with unbelievers, I try and conduct myself with wisdom. I try and be very gracious and I listen to them and I want to respond to what they say. I don't want to accuse them. And I've had Christians I've listened to recently say, Oh, you're just dishonest. As though the Christian can read the heart of the person that you're talking to.

I don't think that's wise. I think we need to give the unbelievers the benefit of the doubt and not impugn their motives because we don't know their motives. But what we can do is take their words and see if the words match with scripture, see if the words match with truth and logic and things like that. And I think we can do that graciously.

I think we can do it patiently. And if you are involved in evangelism, it must also be true out of 2 Timothy 2.24, The Lord's bondservant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perchance God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth. Now that verse is an important verse or those two verses, 2 Timothy 2.24 and 25.

It's important because as Christians we need to be as kind as we can and not be quarrelsome. I've certainly failed in that area and I'm always working on it. But one of the things I've developed as a habit now is I'm talking to people in chat rooms and if they start interrupting or they start interrupting over, they're speaking over my words, because they ask me a question, I'll start to answer them, then they jump in and cut me off while I'm answering. And what I'll do is just patiently wait until they're done and I'll say, look, is it okay with you? I finished my answer, you asked me and I'm trying to answer, and yet you cut me off. Is it okay if you just let me finish when you ask me something? I'm letting you talk completely, I take notes from what you say, and I'm responding to the question.

Is that okay? And they'll say, well, is it okay? And then suddenly they'll say, yeah. And I'll say, because if you continue to do that, I'm not going to have a conversation with you. And so very often I'll be talking with them and they'll continue to do it. And I say, okay, we're done.

And I just leave and there's a reason for it, which I'll tell you after the break. But in the meantime, we have five open lines. I want you to give me a call. Please give me a call, 877-207-2276. Give me a call, folks. We'll be right back after these messages. . It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Before the break, I was telling you why, what I'll do a lot of times when I'm talking with someone and they become repetitive, they interrupt. And I say, okay, I'm done. And I just leave. The reason is because I don't want to get angry. And I don't want to blow my witness.

I don't want to destroy it to damage it. So, see, I'm done. And because I'm a sinner. And I would rather leave a conversation if we can't be polite and if I can't control myself perfectly. And so that's what I do.

I just say, okay, we're not having a good conversation and, you know, you've agreed to not interrupt and yet you continue to do that. So, you know, I'm done. I'm just going to move on. And that's what I do. So there you go. And that's the reason I do that. That's my choice.

And actually in varying venues now, actually the atheists and stuff are kind of mocking me about it. You better be nice or Matt will leave. And I'll just say, that's true. I'm nice to you. I'm not rude to you. Is it okay to return the favor?

And, you know, generally people let go with that. Anyway, four open lines if you want to give me a call. 8772076. Hello, Cameron.

It should be picked up. Cameron, are you there? Okay. I know this guy. Yes, I'm sorry.

He's talking to somebody. Cameron. Sorry about that. All right. I'm going to put him on hold.

Cameron, three, two, one. Yeah. Yeah, Cameron's a mailman friend of mine, so he might be doing something and he often will talk on the phone. Well, he's walking and talking. He's a great guy and I've done it for a few years. He's a local here, so he's a good guy. So we'll get back to him in a little bit. We have Jose from Texas. I think I'll just jump right on with Jose.

Jose, man, how are you doing, buddy? And I prayed for him and I asked him if he could believe in Jesus Christ before he died and he did. My question is because the problem was that he was mute.

He couldn't talk due to the sickness. Is he still saved or do you have to repeat a prayer? No. You don't have to repeat a phrase. That's not what saves you. It's the appeal of a clean conscience before God. And the idea of confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, that is Romans 10, 9, and 10. That's normative speaking. That's just normative that you do that. But if you're mute, you can't do it. Well, you can't do it.

What if you have tubes in your throat, your mouth and your throat, a surgery? That's the case, yeah. Yeah. And so I've had that happen and you can't talk. Okay, so what do you do? Well, you can grunt, you know. But no, he's not, he could be confessing in his heart, believing in his heart, and you can't say the word so he can't be saved.

No, it's not how it works. Okay. Okay, so that's my last question because I had other brothers in Christ that said, well, he didn't have a sanctified life, he didn't do so much. Anyway, but the thing is that he was already 70, 72, so he was, he knew about God, or I want to say he was not a believer, but at the end, I guess whenever, the doctor didn't give him so much time, so I prayed over him and I prayed for him, and I asked him if he believed in Jesus Christ. And he, I felt he tied my hand and he was just, I guess, and I just prayed for him and I just prayed the word with me, and hold my hand and tied it, you're conscious about what I'm going to pray. So he did, he gave me his sign. Okay, all right.

So anyways, as you didn't know, I guess that, they all did the account, he had to repeat the prayer with you. No, it's not true. No, it's not true. Okay. It's not true. No, that's ridiculous. I guess they give Romans 10, 9, I think.

I got it. But notice what Romans 10, 9, it says. Okay, this is why I wish people would stop teaching when they don't know what they're doing. If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, does it say in there you have to confess, that's the only way to be saved? It doesn't say that. See, it just, it says if you confess, well, if you do that, yeah, you're saved. Okay, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead? Yeah, of course, with the heart he believes, resulting in righteousness. What's the thing that results in righteousness? His belief. This is consistent with Romans 4, 5, the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith is credited as righteousness.

It's not a necessity. It does not say you must, without exception, confess Jesus verbally with words in order to be saved. That's what they're saying it means, and what we need to do is get a friend of yours, okay, and have your friend get behind him on his hands and knees, and then you push the guy over his back. Okay, stop it, stop it, stop it, okay? That's a joke, but all right? Okay. Okay. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, Matt. Thank you for clarification because it gives me a peace of mind.

God is not restricted by the requirement of a verbal assertion. What about babies? What about babies in the womb? What do you do when there are people, and I've seen it. I used to work at a hospital, and I've seen it where people have tubes all in them.

My wife, when she had open-heart surgery, she had tubes down her throat and her nose and her neck and other parts of her body, in her abdomen and elsewhere. She couldn't talk. And there are people like that, and they're in that near-death situation, and the minister comes in, and he says, Do you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead? And they nod their head.

That's all they can do. Sorry, you've got to talk. Otherwise, you're going to hell. Oh, I can't, you know, sorry. Your faith in Christ is not enough. You've got to say the words.

It's just ridiculous that that is what people would assert, and they need to repent, they need to stop, and I wish people would stop being dumb. And it causes problems. Okay? All right? Okay. All right. Thank you, Matt. Thanks for getting to talk. All right. God bless. Hey, folks, you want to give me a call?

All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Cameron, are you there? Yes.

Cameron. Yes, I'm here. Sorry about that. All right, buddy. That's all right. I figured, are you at work? You doing the post office thing? Yeah, I was working. I wasn't expecting to talk to anybody at that moment, except for you.

Well, you call up, what do you expect? I mean, it's a brain thing, but I do know you, and I know there's issues there, but that's okay. We'll be gracious. Yeah.

Yeah, we'll be gracious. All right. So my question is regarding Genesis chapter 8, verse 22.

Okay. I'm curious to know if you think I can apply it the way that I see it. So the way I see that verse is that sort of puts the nail in the coffin of any Christian who believes in catastrophic global climate change from that verse.

So I would say, okay, you could have some variation in climate, depending on what God wants to do, but I think Genesis chapter 8, verse 22, that would contradict a catastrophic climate change type of thing. Well, I think you could interpret it that way. However, it does say in Revelation that, let me see. Oh, man, I can't even spell here.

Let's see. I'm trying to find what it says. A third of this dies that broke the third seal. Yeah, a third of the earth was burned up. So this is what it says in Revelation 8, 7.

The first sound in there came hail and fire mixed with blood. They were all thrown into the earth, and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. That's catastrophic. So when we go back to Genesis 8, 22, the earth will remain. That's true. And seed time and harvest and cold and heat and summer and winter and day and night shall not cease. They're not going to cease. Right, until the end. Yeah, that's another thing. The new heavens and new earth are made.

And then we don't need a sun. So I think what he's doing in Genesis 8, 22 is just simply speaking normatively for the people. But it doesn't mean there's not going to be something pretty serious happening in the last days. I think this is interesting.

It's Genesis 8 and Revelation 8. Well, how about that? Huh. OK. Well, that's why I called you to run that one by you. Well, as I have said to you before, oh, by the way, you're welcome to go to Utah with me if you want to go to the Hindu Festival if you're able to do that. But you have surprised me with your ability to see things that have insight on various stuff. So I'm just telling you, man, just bragging on you. You're a good guy.

Oh, OK. Well, probably just because I heard it from somebody else. OK, buddy. Sounds good. All right.

Keep delivering the mail. All right, Cameron. All right, I'll do that. Thank you. All right.

Yeah, he's distracted there. OK, we have four open lines. We're going to call 877-207-2276.

Jennifer from North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, there.

I'm calling for my incarcerated boys. Oh, OK. The question tonight, yeah, yeah. The question is, can you explain Matthew 10, 23, but when they persecute you in this city, plea ye into another, for verily I say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come. I think till the Son of Man be come was the confusing part.

Right. So the preterists will use this to say that the Israelites, because in Matthew 10, that's who he's talking to, as a disciple specifically. And that Jesus will not return until he returns in the armies of Jerusalem, of Rome, to destroy Jerusalem.

So sometimes the preterists will use that verse, but it's not a good verse for that. We'll get him back for the break. We'll talk about it because there's a break.

All right. All right, hold on, Jennifer. Hey, folks, we have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. Welcome back to the show, everyone.

Last segment of the day. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is call 877-207-2276. We have four open lines. So give me a call. Let's get to Jennifer from North Carolina.

Welcome. You're on the air. Are you there? Me? Yes. Oh, that's right.

Jennifer, yeah. OK, now I remember. I was distracted by something else. OK, good. OK, so explain that. I was talking about the, yeah, sorry about that.

Matthew 10-23. No, that's OK. You know, I got a lot of things I'm doing sometimes. Even during the break, I do stuff, and I go, where was I?

I want to come back on the air. Oh, I don't understand. So whenever they persecute you, oh, I got to say, before I say this, before I get into it, everybody, you got to, if everyone would, we have someone who works with us, Charlie, and God knows who Charlie is. He works and he helps us a great deal. He had some surgeries and a lot of pain. If you guys could just lift him up and pray for him, wherever out there, just lift up Charlie, that God would relieve the pain. That's why he's not helping me out today on the radio show. He heals behind the scenes. So he's in pain of surgery.

He'll be fine, but, you know. All right, so one of the theories I was saying is that the preterists will use this to say that he was talking to the disciples and that Jesus would come back, and it wouldn't, they would not reach all of the cities until the time of Christ's return, and that once they did reach all the cities, then Christ would return, and they say it had to be in the armies of Jerusalem. Oh, I keep saying that.

The armies of Rome came in to destroy Jerusalem in 70 A.D. This is one of the verses they can use for that. But, you see, the issue here is, Matthew 10, 1, that Jesus summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, and his 12 apostles are these.

They list them out. And these 12, Jesus sent out to instructing them. Now the question then becomes, as he says, I sent you out as sheep among the wolves. And then he says, verse 24, a disciple is not above his teacher, and it's enough for a disciple. Now it looks like he's broadening the scope about what it means to be a disciple in the issue of verse 24. So the question here in verse 23, is he only talking to the disciples? If he's talking to the disciples, then we have to ask, then how did Jesus come, you know, return?

Well, or did he return? It says, until you see the Son of Man comes. Well, one of the theories is that it's Matthew 17, in his transfiguration, that that was the appearance and the manifestation of his kingdom.

That's one of the theories, and there's merit to it. And the reason the return of Christ cannot be the return and destruction of Jerusalem by the armies is because the angels who prophesied Jesus' return in Acts 1, 9-11, very specifically tell people, you're looking up into the sky where the clouds are. You saw him go up there, this is how he's going to come back.

That's what they clearly say is how he's going to return. So it cannot be that the Preterist position out of Matthew 12, 23 is correct, that it's the armies in Jerusalem. It just cannot be that.

So we have to dismiss that and say, well, what else can it be? And as I said, one of the issues is Matthew 17 with the transfiguration. And the other issue is that he was not only speaking to the apostles, but all disciples. Now, in 70 AD, Israel was wiped out. Well, basically, I mean, Jerusalem was wiped out, and the Romans came in and, let's just say, cleaned Israel's clock geographically, socially.

A lot of people died, a couple million. And so they were scattered all over the place. All the Christians were scattered with them. It's called the diaspora, the dispersion.

So they were dispersed throughout all of the Mediterranean area because the Romans came in and just made it bad. So this caused, side note, the furthering of the gospel being preached to all nations and things like that, but nevertheless. So there were two possibilities. One is that the coming of the Son of Man, which cannot be, because of Acts 9-11, it cannot be in anything other than a literal return, or at least in the seeing of the coming of the clouds. So the idea of Matthew 17 actually talks about the clouds, that he was there. And so you go, okay, is that possible?

Because it says, when he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, the voice out of the cloud said, My beloved Son in whom I will please listen to him. So is that a type of return? I think it might be a type of return, but it's not the return, because the return comes with other things, and that's with new heavens and new earth, with the rapture, and things like that. So this becomes more difficult to interpret. Now the preterists will say, oh, we've got it down.

No, they don't. And we could say, well, Matthew 17, and the cloud that overshadowed them, he saw them coming in the clouds. Well, that's possible, but it doesn't seem to be as literally implied as it is in Acts 1, 9-11, by the angels. So could it be, then, that when Jesus talked about the return, that he was talking in more than one way? Because it's often the case in Scripture that the Lord will say something with several meanings behind it.

We've got to understand what he's getting at, and I think this might be one of them. It says, whenever they persecute you in one study, flee to the next. He's talking about them going out and preaching and teaching. They're going to be persecuted.

Well, that's still happening. So does he only say to the disciples? It wouldn't make sense to say that. You'll not finish going to the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Now, the cities of Israel, that means the cities of Israel. That's what it means. It doesn't mean Los Angeles and New York and London and Paris. It's cities of Israel.

So here's a question, then. If they're going around, and there's a lot to this, okay, if the Jews are against the Christians when Jesus died from the dead, the Christians were hiding, which is very evident, when the women had to go out and find him in the room when the men were hiding. Hey, he's risen. The disciples are going out. There's 12 disciples and maybe a little bit more. How is it that they would then be able to go out to every city in Israel at that time? The question then becomes, how many cities?

If we're to take it literal and say they had to go out to every single city before Jesus could return, and let's just say that Jesus was crucified in 33 A.D., and in 70 A.D. is when Jerusalem was attacked and everybody scattered, we have roughly 40 years. Could they have gone out in 40 years to every city? I think that's possible. But is it necessary? I don't know. So it's not so easy to answer. It's just a tough one. And sometimes when I just give these long answers and end up with, I don't know, it's because there's so many things and things attached to it that I want to show people. It's not just, I don't know. But there's questions attached to each position and sometimes we just can't answer it perfectly.

Even a slick guy in a radio. Okay. I don't know if that helps the guy. If that helps him, it probably helps him a lot. Maybe. He's probably, I don't know if that was good or bad. I don't know if that was a good answer or not answer. Maybe he's smiling right now, he's kind of chuckling, and he's looking at those guys around him going, and then they're all chuckling. We're looking at each other, hey, hey, and they're smiling, who knows?

So you never know. So he's in Salt Lake City, right, prison? Is that right?

No. In North Carolina. Oh, that's right, that's right, that's right.

Okay, I don't know how I got them all mixed up. Tomorrow is his date, sentencing date. Sentencing? He's going to be sentenced?

Yes, he's in federal holding. So send a little prayer for God's will. People pray for him. People pray for him. And hopefully he's very serious about the Lord. I knew a guy in Folsom Prison, I won't say anything other than that, who loved the Lord a great deal.

He was guilty of some pretty bad stuff. And he wanted out to serve God. And I believe he was legitimately converted because of the conversations we would have.

He was legitimate. I know another guy who was in prison and got saved in prison. I know God uses a lot of people in prison and to preach and teach those people there. And so it's a good ministry ground. In fact, I learned to preach by doing prison ministry. Not that I'm good or anything, but I learned to preach in prison. Mine is, I think he's really, he wants to be used while he's, where he's going and where he's at. Alright. And I feel like he's sincere.

He will be. But it won't be easy because I know this, they're tested in prison. And once you pass their test, it's okay. They don't test you like over a rack and then they're fire underneath, they're roasting you and say, are you going to have candy? Not like that.

But they'll test you. Alright? Alright. Thank you.

Alright, Jennifer. God bless. Okay. Thanks. Alright, let's get to Zach from Arkansas. Zach, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, I have a quick question for you.

Sure. I am a conformed guy. And when people bring up that, I wish I knew where it was, that Old Testament passage when, I think Joshua says, as for me and my house, I will serve the Lord, they use that oftentimes in the life that he will. How would you personally as a reformed person defend against that, arguing for God's predestining things and such?

Would you kind of help explain that, please? Why does that verse present any challenge? He says he's serving the Lord.

Well, right, exactly. And I guess they use it in the light of, well, see right there, he made a choice, hey, you're saying you can serve such and such gods or idols, but as for me and my house, I'll serve the Lord, and they use that maybe in the light of total and complete free will, rather than how maybe you or I would view it as, yes, they're making a choice, but more according to their desire. Well, don't forget, he's speaking to Covenant Israel. They'd come out under the Covenant work of God through the Ten Commandments, which are Covenant documents, from the suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium B.C.

It's Covenant. So he's speaking to Covenant people, and Joshua is saying, hey, we're going to serve God. It's like my wife and I, we're Christians, we're going to say we're serving God. It doesn't mean we don't have the ability to make choices. Unbelievers have the ability to make choices. Their choices are going to be consistent with their unbelief, because that's their nature.

But Joshua here, he's already a follower in God. So the verse has nothing to do with any challenge at all to the idea of the relationship of free will and God's predestinating people. There's nothing in it that would be a challenge. It's just not there. Okay, well, thank you very much. I guess that's a lot easier than I thought it was going to be.

I was just thinking about it too much. Well, here's the thing. When people make an assertion, and you say, okay, show me the scriptures, and always read the context, and say, well, is it saying what you want it to say or you think it says?

And it's very simple. It's not a mocking thing. It's not being angry. Is that what it says? And you'll find that 90% of the time their assertions fail when you look at context.

That's what I do all the time. Where does it say that? It doesn't say that. You're reading into the text. That's all. It's easy.

Okay, well, yeah, no, that really makes sense. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Hey, you're welcome so much. God bless, buddy. All right.

That was Zach from Arkansas, and the music is going to start any second. See, there it is. And, by God's grace, look back on here tomorrow, and we can talk to you then, save your questions for then, and, hey, I plan to be down in Salt Lake City area Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and may the Lord bless you, and we'll talk to you guys later. Have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network. God bless.