Monday, December 11th | Political Christians? (ft. Michael Whatley)

Hello, everyone. Today is Monday, December the 11th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. And you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

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We're going to leave some links in the description so you can do just that. The verse of the day today comes from 1 Peter 2, verse 9. But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, his own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Now, some of us, it's difficult to, and I love that passage, and I love, because it's basically saying what we all want to hear. You're special. You're chosen. You are set apart for a holy reason. And yet some of us have trouble accepting that because we've been fed this so often, like, what's so special about me that I deserve it and someone else doesn't?

And the answer is, truly, there is nothing special about you. Right. Well, I'm glad you said that because the whole thing is we don't deserve it.

Right. We don't deserve to be called special. We don't deserve to be called set apart. But that's what Christ does. He calls us out of darkness into his marvelous light. And so what's the response to that? It's not just, yay, we're special.

Here's your participation trophy. No, we are special so that we may proclaim the praises of him who called you. Everything goes back to Christ. It's not about us. It's not about what we bring to the table. It's about who Christ is and what he's done for us.

That's exactly right. I had someone write in for the first time in a while. A lot of people write in doing lightning round questions, but somebody wanted to know, Ryan, this is from Donald W. from North Carolina, by the way. What are the top three things on your Christmas wish list? Ooh, top three things on my Christmas wish list. Elizabeth and I were talking about this the other day, my wife and I, and it's weird being at this stage in life because I don't really keep a wish list for myself.

We're to the point in adulting where if we want something, we just kind of get it, within reason. But if I had to pick three things, I saw this really cool three-in-one charging dock station where it charges your AirPods, your Apple Watch, and your iPhone all at the same time, which is right on your nightstand. That's really cool. It has those contact chargers. Another one that I saw is a lamp, like a light, that fits over a book page. Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, yeah. It's not a backlight, but it illuminates the page without illuminating the room. So that would be really good.

I like to read before going to bed. And then if I had to pick another one, I would say maybe a new phone case. Mine's kind of falling apart a little bit. Yeah, you phone cased a little bit.

You've got to auto-box those. I mean, it's still in good condition. The silicone's getting a little stretched out. It's definitely not flashy. It's kind of a boring case. No, it's not.

It's very boring, but it is very practical. I've dropped this thing so many times. Yeah, same.

And it's held up. I would say for me, top three things. See, my problem is I collect. I'm a collector. For instance, I wanted the original Ultimate Spider-Man 22 issue run, the original Peter Parker run. So I want the whole set.

I don't want a couple of issues. So for Christmas, I'm like, I want the entire set. That's thousands of dollars for comic books. Can't do that.

It's obviously not good. So it's difficult, because this year, I'm trying to collect the complete Agatha Christie Hercule Poirot complete set, which is like 38 books. Now, each one's only like $10, but still, it's like 38 different books. So I'm trying to finagle it, where I'm sending a couple of them to Ellie, a couple of them to my sister, a couple of them to my mom, a couple of them to David. I'm getting several links right now as we're speaking. Yeah, actually, I was going to talk to you about that, because you actually ended up getting way more.

I sent you like 10. Wow, amazing. Yeah, and they're only like $10 each, so that's only $100. So I could probably double that, and I think you would still be in budget for me. You think so?

Yeah, I think so. I would be in budget for you. Have you set my Christmas budget for you? I have not actually gotten anything for you this year. Unfortunately, things work kind of tight due to the- No, what I'm saying is you have set my allotted spending for you, like what I have to buy for you.

Yes, yes. So if I got 20 of those, that actually works out kind of well for me. If you wanted to get me 20 of those books, that would work out kind of well.

But I do only count, I count that entire collectible set as one. So I do still get two more gifts. Of course, of course. You know what I would really love? I'd love a new chair. I'd love a new armchair.

Really? Something about being a dad. You need a chair. You know, I don't have a chair. You gotta have a chair. And it's not something that I, our living room is relatively small.

I mean, especially when you add in all the kids. So we have, we have a chair. It's not a recliner or anything. It's just like a, just a freestanding chair. Yeah. You have a love seat in the couch and they all kind of match. Yeah.

Which is great. I think every dad needs a recliner. Papa had a chair. Daddy had a chair. Now I have a chair. Problem is, here's where I messed up, is that Papa did not let anybody in his chair. Daddy didn't let anybody in his chair.

I let my son into my chair. There's where you made your critical error. Big mistake because he eats Pop-Tarts in the chair.

That's where you made your critical mistake. He eats all sorts of snacks and chalky milk. All of it goes in the chair. So now I have a ruined chair. I hate, I hate to hear that for you. I'm so sorry. It was once. And here's the problem, like Gavin's at the age now where maybe you could like sort of work on getting that out of there, but then you got to hold him right behind you.

Yeah. Who's going to eat the chalky milk? Who's going to, who's going to have the chicken nug? He'll spit up in the chair. In the chair. He will, he will, uh, he'll, they, they just, the boys have ruined my chair. I would love a new chair. And then the third thing, because I'm, I am so humble, I think I'll just, I'll just bow out. The complete Agatha Christie, a new chair, and I think I'm good. And that's it.

I think I'm good. And just a nice slice of humble pie. A nice slice of just, just life.

Just life. Just, that's always the Christian. Listen, all I want is my Lord and savior Jesus Christ for Christmas.

That's all I want is just his salvation. I'm like, all right. All right. You make me look like a bad Christian. Thanks for that. Appreciate that so much. We actually have a, uh, we have a special guest on the show today.

Yes, that's true. So we're going to go grab Dr. Sean, our special guest, and I'm interested to know what they would like for their, for their top three Christmas gifts. Um, one of our guests is, is heavily involved in politics, so I'm going to guess an election seat. I think, uh, to win the election, that probably would be what he would want for Christmas.

That would be pretty impressive. Write in and let us know what your top three gifts that you're looking for this Christmas are. 252-582-5028, or you can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Stay tuned. We'll be right back. Hey. Hey, you. Me?

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Amen. Let's hop back into the show. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, or if you have any questions or suggestions for future topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right, and we are here on this glorious Monday morning with Dr. Abbadon Shah, who is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, host of today's show, Snazzy Dresser. Look, we all look kind of good today. Snazzy Dresser. I was going to say, you look good too. Thank you very much. You do as well. Mr. Wiley, you look pretty good as well.

We've got a really special guest in the studio with us today. I just want to say, man, if we had an award for Snazzy as Dresser, I would just give it to all four of us. Just a four-way tie.

If you had to say who looks the best out of all of us, who do you think? John. Just give it to John. There you go. John, just give it to him. He knows what he wants. There you go. See, he doesn't dress up usually. So when he dresses up, you give it to him.

It makes a big impact. Just default to get the award. You encourage behavior. You want to see repeated.

That's right. Well, we talked earlier on the show, so first of all, Mr. Michael Wiley, welcome to the show. We are excited to have you on the show, and we're going to talk about what you do in just a minute, but we're going to get to some hard-hitting questions first. And that's what are the top three items on your Christmas wish list?

That's a hard-hitting question. That's what people want to know. Here's the season. That's right. My wife was giving me a hard time a couple weeks ago about not being overly festive.

And so I said, all right, you know what, this is going to be the most festive Christmas ever. There you go. That's what this guy likes. Which is nice. I have a thing.

I have a daughter who is a senior in high school. And so I think we're on year seven, maybe eight now, of every day I send her a song. And so we kind of cut that in there. And after two or three years, it was hard because I wanted no repeats. And she finally said, you know, you can repeat, but not within a year. So we have been doing a lot of Christmas songs lately over the last week, which elicits an eye roll.

But I was like, nope, most festive Christmas ever is what we're going to have this year. Well, if you're getting an eye roll from a teenager, you're doing it right. Absolutely right. There you go.

Absolutely right. You know, and it's so funny because when you're a kid, you have the gift list. I want this. I want a car.

I want a driver. You know, and now it really goes back to being that hokey dad with two kids in college and one at home of, I just want to be home. Yeah, exactly. I just want to be at the house, man. I want to be in my PJs. When I look at the mileage on my truck and, you know, we're running, you know, between 70, 80,000 miles a year with the party stuff, you know, it's like, can I just be home? Can I just be home and kind of give it a break? Wow. That would be nice.

What are your top three? I'll steal that one. Same thing? That's, that's a very good, and you know how busy this year has been for us. We've had so much going on, travel, everything. So I would love that, that just sit back, relax, have the family that is able to come and just, just chill and nothing else. So PJs, coffee and Christmas and the kids. I can take that. There you go. Yeah. That's a good Christmas. That's a good Christmas.

And Bonanza on TV. There you go. Now we're set. Perfect.

Fall asleep in front of the TV and then don't let none of the kids change. That's like Thomas Kinkaid painting right there. There you go. I like that.

I love it. Well, we've already said it, but Mr. Michael Whitley, welcome to the show. We're excited to have you here. For the benefit of our listening audience, they may have heard your name and they're like, I don't know who this person is. Please tell us what, what it is that you do and, you know, what we're going to be talking about today.

Sure. Well, look, I think I basically have two jobs at this point. I am, I'm the chair of the North Carolina Republican Party and I'm also the general council for the RNC. And so I spend a lot of time trying to figure out, you know, how, how to win elections and things along those lines. But you know, my, my background, where I came from, including two, you know, religion degrees, one from Wake Forest, one from Notre Dame, you know, have spent a lot of time, particularly in the political realm, trying to figure out how do we get more men and women of faith in the public square. And that really is something that's just a personal mission of mine and it's a, it's a really big deal. And I'm, you know, I'm a treasurer at my church, have been on the vestry and a senior warden before. And you know, the faith side of me is what really drives me within this political realm.

And I don't see how you can have one without the other, frankly. So we're spending a lot of time here and around the country working with folks to make sure that we're bringing not just candidates, but the right candidates to the political space. Amen. And it's an honor to be able to sit here with you men, because I know the two of you share very similar goals and the Dr. Shah is a pastor yourself. It's really important that you see your church members and your church body involved out in public, not just come to church and consume.

Absolutely. Our viewers, our listeners know that is that we believe in the cultural mandate. Our job is not just to stay within the four walls of the church, but to influence the culture. This is something that has been superimposed on Christianity or Bible by some nationalists. This is the mandate Christ has given to us, to be the salt and the light. To flavor the culture, to shed light in the world, and to make the world a better place through our life, through our examples, and through our walk with Jesus Christ. So that's just the natural Christian life. I don't think it's something we have made up or just something brand new concept we're bringing.

This is how it should be. And throughout the history of Christianity, everywhere Christians went, they transformed the culture. They changed the culture for the better. Whether it's in Rome or in America or Europe, this has been the normal Christian life. You've said something in the past that has really impacted me, given your perspective as someone who didn't grow up here but came here later, that you can tell when you visit a country and it's been founded on Judeo-Christian values, it's been founded on biblical values.

Because growing up here, that's something that I've taken for granted. We look at the world, we look at culture, and we're like, oh gosh, we've gotten so far away from God. But to hear you say, yes, and we need to course correct, but you can tell the difference in a country that's founded upon biblical values.

Growing up in India and then coming here, very quickly you can tell, oh no, this is different. I'm not saying morally that we are superior or any of that thing because we have our problems, we have our sin, we have to repent before God. But the foundation is Judeo-Christian, and I believe it's still there which enables us and grants us the freedom that we have right now to sit with you and talk about these things. In other places, other parts of the world, very quickly you'll be censored, very quickly. And unfortunately that's where we're headed unless we do what you're trying to do, which is to bring men and women of faith into the marketplace, into the political realm.

Yeah, you have to do it. I think there's a saying in politics, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. Right? I like that. That's good. But when I look at it, the Constitution in the United States guarantees us freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. And I think it is very important that we look to have faith leaders who are going to engage. We're very fortunate here in North Carolina. We've got a chief justice of the Supreme Court with Paul Newby, who's a man of tremendous faith, our lieutenant governor, Mark Robinson, Senator Ted Budd, Dan Bishop, who is running for attorney general and is in the House, our congressional delegation, every single one of them. And so that really matters, but it really is more important for you, for me, for everybody in our communities, what is our city council like? What is our county commission like? We spend as a state, 54% of our state budget on K through 12 public education, right?

Who are the people on the county school board that are making decisions on how they're going to be able to spend money? That's true. It really, truly matters. And I've worked on thousands of campaigns over the last 40 years, and I will tell you this, I have worked with good people, I've worked with not so good people, but I've never seen anyone who became a more moral person after they got elected, right? So if we want moral people in office, we have to recruit moral people to be engaged and run for office.

That's true. And we also need men and women of faith to engage even if they're not running, right? You know, 50% of evangelicals in North Carolina are not even registered to vote. Oh, yeah.

We talked about that. And so when we talk about how to win elections for faith, not Republican versus Democrat, this is good versus evil. And how do we get everybody to engage on this, because I can assure you, liberal churches are engaged.

Yes, that's true. So how do you get the evangelicals in other conservative churches to engage? Where do you think that apathy comes from? Do you think it's just seen? Because I think Ryan made a good point that when you grow up, especially me growing up here in this town in the South in the Bible Belt, there's a church on every corner. It just becomes so commonplace. Do you think there's just this idea that we're the default, we're fine, we're not in any danger? I think that's some of it.

I really do. And I think that also you've had a series of Democratic presidents that have run all the way up through President Obama, and even now President Biden, who have said to conservative churches, if you engage in political activity, you'll lose your tax exemption. That's not true. They're not going after all the churches, just the conservative churches, right?

So, you know, we need impartial application of that particular law. But again, there's just a difference, right? And when I talk to faith leaders, you know, and I've done a series of 30 different pastor lunches across the state, talked to about 4000 pastors at this point, I tell them, I'm not here as a Republican chairman. I'm here as a conservative, I'm here as a Christian, a husband and a father. And I'm telling you, we need you and your followers to engage in the political process. Wow.

That's incredible. Yeah, I was just going to say, it's encouraging to hear you talk about that because, you know, you grow up hearing, like, caricatures of politicians, you grow up hearing caricatures of people who are in the political realm. And it's just like, I mean, like you said, no becomes more moral once they become a politician. But to hear people of faith operating in the political realm is encouraging to me in not only my faith, but in my involvement in politics as well. There was a there was a book that we read as a staff, it was creative followership.

It was, it was the it wasn't true, Kathy, but his his, Jim Collins, Jim Collins, and we read that book as a staff. And I think one of the things that really stood out to me and now I'm kind of seeing as we're framing this conversation is the path that you've chosen to take, where as a prominent member of the community, Dr. Shah, I'm you're not running for political office, but supporting Christians who are and those resources that that we have and that we've accumulated and the connections that we've made are being used to further the gospel in that sphere. Right. I truly believe having lived overseas, I saw my dad, he was a pastor for almost 60 years.

And he was always involved in the political process, not not running. And that's fine. Some who are called and I think this is many are stepping up, many pastors are stepping up and taking that role.

And I'm so happy about that. But my dad, he would always support it. And his premise was, if we don't, then we will lose the ability to worship.

That's how he he operated there. And he had challenged other pastors to join him. So when I came here and I see in the past 30 years how, you know, it's almost everyone's welcome except Christians, because you guys are bigoted.

You guys are terrible people and and all of that. And I'm thinking we as Christians should realize that if we don't step into the process, just the way you said earlier, then we become the menu. So I think pastors here need to operate almost as if pastors overseas do in a non-Christian environment that we have to speak up for our people. We have to do this. And I still believe the foundation is there, but it's going to go away if we don't do something about it.

Could not agree more. You know, I tell every pastor that I talk with that there's three things that you need to think about. Number one, you need to think about running, right? You know, as a pastor, you are a good public speaker, right? You can herd cats. That's right. Right. And God knows you can raise money. Right.

You're perfect. But if that's not the call, right, either for you or for your spouse, right, or your family or your church, right, then but you know people in your church that are. That's right. Right. And you can help them and you can mentor them and guide them and get them comfortable with the notion of running for office. And then third, we've got to get believers registered to vote.

They need to go out and register to vote, you know, and again, I'm not telling people go vote Republican. I'm telling them go vote your values. That's right. That's right. And that really truly is important to me, but it's important to the party. It's important, I think, for the country to make sure that we have people go vote values. We often hear, oh, politics is dirty and all politicians are this and that, and I understand what they're saying and I know that that can happen, but then make it better. Right.

Yeah. Make it better. You are either the solution or the problem. So go be a solution and make a difference. Encourage your young people, your children to consider politics.

Consider ministry, but also consider politics. That's right. Maybe they'll make a bigger impact. Yeah. And I think it's great that, you know, in North Carolina, we had 13 freshmen members of the State House this year.

Three of them were pastors. Right. Wow. So in Raleigh, you know, every Wednesday, every Monday, there are prayer breakfasts in the conversations. That's awesome.

And up in Washington, D.C. at Congress, there are prayer breakfasts that take place. You know, you can absolutely walk the walk, not just talk the walk. That's right. That's right. When it comes to practicing your values while you serve, you know, and that service really, I think, is such a great word, right? You know, because you have to serve your community, but you have to serve all your community. That's right.

And so there are opportunities for men and women of faith to get elected and be able to continue to be very faithful with it. And that's been really neat as the chair to be able to work with folks and have those conversations and bring them along. That's really cool. Later on in the week, we're going to have Dr. Gary Miller on the show. We're going to have David Lane on this Friday.

And I want to pose this question to both of them, but I thought it would be kind of cool to pose it to you guys as well. I feel like, and I think a lot of people listening to this show would agree that we've been, I don't want to say we, I mean Christians, have been playing defense for so long. We've almost forgotten how to play offense.

What does it look like when a Christian in America plays offense? You know, I think it really is a proactive conversation, first and foremost, about what do we need to get done, right? And then how do we do it, right? And so, you know, when you look at where we are in the world right now, you know, three years ago, Russia was in check, China was in check, Iran was in check, right? Right now, you know, Iran through its proxies is in Israel, Russia is in Ukraine, China is licking its lips over Taiwan.

But there's not just political ramifications for that, not just national security ramifications for that. You know, I mean, what Iran is trying to do in Israel is absolutely eliminate Judaism, right? And they will also work all day every day to eliminate Christianity. You know, when you think about ISIS and you think about all of the different terrorist networks out there, it is a religious war for them, so we need to make sure that we're trying to do that.

So, you know, I think that when we talk about what are going to be the classes that are going to be taught in our public schools, what are the books that are going to be in our public libraries, you know, there are issues there that really truly matter. You know, when we talk about the freedom to go through a pandemic without shutting down churches, you know, there are issues that faith is going to be tied up in every single day. And you don't know when that particular issue is going to come, but I want a man or woman of faith making that call when the decision comes.

That's right. And expect opposition. The moment you do that, somebody says, oh, just remember separation of church and state. And we often talked about the Danbury Baptist, you know, how that letter was given to say, hey, we protect your faith. It was not to say keep Christianity out. So be prepared to hear people call you out and say, how dare you and you're and we've heard that.

I've heard that. And you just have to say, no, we are for all people. We're here to help you. So I think it's a battle between good and evil. Expect opposition. The enemy is really the enemy, which is Satan behind all of this. And we have to do it. Well, I love that you use that word, that battle.

It is a battle. And I think too many Christians want the Christian life to just be a peaceful existence. I just want to go to my church, go home to my family. And that's my that's my Christian.

I just want to relax until heaven and then relax for eternity, pretty much. But I love that you frame it that way, because that's what it is. It's a battle. It's spiritual warfare.

No one can go into a battle and not be prepped for battle. It's so important. It helps convey that sense of urgency to that sense of, you know, this is a need. This is a calling for you to step up and answer. We have a lot of pastors and people who are in ministry who listen to the show, but we also have a lot of people who are just sort of lay people that go to church and are interested in these things. Maybe Mr. Wiley and then Dr. Shaw, what would you say to the average lay person who is understanding, you know, from this conversation, I need to be involved in devote biblical values. I need to make sure my voice is heard. What are some practical things that I can do in order to operate and make a difference in the political world?

Sure. You know, we've got a number of great national networks, you know, and you mentioned David Lane and the American Renewal Project and the great work that they do around the country. I was on the phone earlier with Ralph Reed, you know, and in the Faith and Freedom Coalition and Tony Perkins, you know, and we've so we've got a number of folks that are out there trying to energize folks and bring them into this sphere. You know, I'm you know, with the Republican Party again, you know, we're we're a particular partisan kind of organization. I want to bring people along to be able to run and to get them involved there and people can certainly come to us and have those conversations. But you know, it's kind of you have to go back to your pastor, you have to go back to the church and you have to say, we need to be involved, not just I, we need to be involved and we need to have these conversations so that everybody can get informed, get educated and vote vote their values.

That's right. As a pastor, I will encourage other pastors to preach on this. You know, we talk about this several times in the year I did a message called the Vine and Fig Tree, Thomas Jefferson's Vine and Fig Tree, how much Bible was central in their lives. Not to say that every founding father was born again, evangelical Christian, but they operated from that perspective. And so talk about that to your people.

I've had so many people come to me after service and say, you know, prior to this, I didn't I didn't care one bit when pastors would talk politics, I was turned off just like this. But you didn't just make talking points. You actually went through the history of this nation or the foundation and the constitution and the amendments and all of that bill of rights. And I get it now. I get it. I'm, I'm more convinced now than I've ever been because I always was on the fence or I just didn't care for it in the church.

We can talk it outside. I tell pastors, talk about it in your church and educate your people, especially the younger generation gen Zs and generation alpha, these are those who definitely need to hear it because they're hearing a very, they're hearing a very different narrative about the foundation of our nation. It's revisionistic history. It's very different.

And so who else is going to step in? And I tell people, yes, America has problems. Don't don't misunderstand that. Yes, we do. I won't put it as, oh my goodness, we are God's chosen ones and we are walking.

No, we have a lot of work to do having said that this is still, I would say the best place to live on earth. Man. Thank you so much, mr. Wylie. Thank you so much for being on the show today. So helpful for us to understand how our faith should impact politics and how we can be involved. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, maybe today's episode was helpful for you in reframing how you understand how your faith impacts your view on politics, write in and let us know two five two five eight two five zero two eight, or you can visit us online at cleaviewtodayshow.com. John, what's coming up tomorrow? Well, it is December, so we're going through some, uh, some more Christmas themes. You know, I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know you do. My friend got some theology for you tomorrow. Diving deep into Athanasius on the incarnation. What does that mean? The word became flesh. That's got to mean something deep, right?

Very nice. Sounds like it means something. We're going to dive into it tomorrow. You'll find out tomorrow. Stay tuned. We love you guys. We'll see you at Cleaview Today.