Thursday, April 20th | Refining Fire

Hello, everyone. Today is Thursday, April the 20th. I'm Ryan Hill.

I'm John Galantis. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions for Dr. Shah or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. Or you can email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com. That's right. You guys can help us keep this conversation going by supporting the podcast, sharing it online, leaving us a good review on iTunes, Spotify, and where you get your podcasting content from.

We're going to leave a couple of links in the description so you can do just that. But before we do anything else, let's hit them with the verse of the day. Verse of the day.

Verse of the day is from James 4.17. Therefore, to him who knows how to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. It's such a simple concept, but so many times we know the right thing and we choose not to do it. And it's weird because we find reasons to do it. We find reasons to justify doing it, like I know this is sin. I know this is not to me. And to him who knows how to do good and doesn't do it. So it's also not even doing things that we shouldn't do, but things that God has told us to do, but I'm not doing it. Well, come on. It's the sin of inaction.

We tend to think that being passive is a virtuous thing because if I don't do anything, I can't mess up. Right. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I just won't do anything. I just won't do anything and that way I can't make a mistake and God can't be mad at me. But when God says, go capture the world, go bring me that hill. And we're like, no Lord, I'm not going to advance.

What if I do it wrongly? Right. God said, go. Yeah. Right. The fact that you're sitting back is already disobedient. That's right.

No points for being passive. That's right. I had a question come in today from Jonathan P. Jonathan P. I'm excited about answering because this one has to do with Mexican food. Oh, I do love Mexican food. And I love Mexican food. I do love Mexican food. Jonathan P. wants to know if you can only have one Mexican dish for the rest of your life, what are you having?

Oh, that's a hard question. Let me ask you this. Does chips and salsa count as a Mexican dish? I think you get that with your dish. Okay.

All right. Because I was going to say if that counts as a dish, that's my answer. I'm not going to have chips and salsa. I think you can just have that with your dish.

For me, it would probably be tacos. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. This does not make us look good.

This makes us look like two very uncultured white guys. But I'm going to let you know right now, tacos with just beef, cheese, and sour cream, I'm good. Oh, see, I'm thinking like pulled pork tacos, like fish tacos, like the carne asada tacos. There's so many varieties you could have with tacos.

Yeah. You can kind of mix and match it to the point that it would be, you know, whatever. I order other things at Mexican restaurants. I rarely will order tacos, but if I have to pick one, that's probably what I'm going with.

I'm very milk toast. I actually have a story about going to a Mexican restaurant because I'm very milk toast when it comes to the dishes, but I really love their sauces. I love Mexican like hot sauce and stuff. There's a Mexican restaurant in town that we go to. It's a favorite of ours.

We go there at least maybe once or twice. Maybe not once a week, but we go there a lot as a staff and so once Ellie and I went just for lunch and they have this homemade orange hot sauce that they make and I said, Hey, can you bring me some of that orange hot sauce? So they're like, yeah, no problem. So they bring out this really dark brown hot sauce and I'm like, Oh no, that's not the one.

I was talking about the orange one. They're like, Oh, okay, got you sir. They come back again with green salsa, like salsa verde. I'm like, uh, no, no, no. The orange, it's like the orange hot sauce you guys make in the back and they start looking confused. They're like, okay, okay, well yeah, we'll bring it to you. They bring me out a thing of queso.

It's just stark white. Now I'm starting to get confused. Now I'm like, okay, are you trolling me? This is, I'm like, this is queso.

Did I misremember this? They're like, yeah, they were like, queso, right? Queso.

I was like, no, no, no. You guys have like an orange like hot sauce that you make in the back. And so they were like, okay, okay. They brought me out another three sauces.

None of them were orange and none of them were the ones that I was asking for. And so at one point Ellie was like, babe, just stop. Just, just leave them alone. I was like, no, like at a certain point, we got to see this through. And so finally they were like, will you just come back here and show us? I went back there and sure enough, there was a big orange vat of, I was like that.

That's the only one that's orange. They were like, okay. So I took a picture of it. And then now every time I go in there, I show them the picture. Then I have this.

I don't know what this is. Cause I ask them, I'm like, what is it? And it's the same like in Mexican restaurants.

When we went to Israel, it was this way. They don't have names for it. They're like, it's just like a red spicy sauce. It's just like a hot sauce.

I'm like, but they're all hot sauces. What's this one called? It's just like, you can just ask for the orange one. I was like, no, clearly I cannot. I can't do that. I can't do that.

I've tried to do that. So I took a picture of it on my phone. Like I want this. So to answer your question, Jonathan P, I would have tacos with that. I would have tacos with that sauce. Nice.

I don't know what it's called, but it's orange and it's really good. I know Dr. Shaw is a fan of Mexican food. So I'm excited to see his answer.

Me too. I have, I have a guest, but I'm excited to see his answer. We've got a great episode planned for you guys today.

Many of you have been walking through the book of Malachi with us over the past several episodes, and it is a, it is an incredible book and we're learning so much. We're going to continue that conversation today. We're going to get Dr. Shaw in just a minute, but if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028 or visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. I'm just playing.

I'm just playing. Keep listening. Dr. Shaw is actually the lead pastor of Clearview Church in North Carolina. Every single weekend he preaches expository messages that challenge and inspire us to live God honoring lives.

One of the four core values of Clearview Church is that we're a Bible believing church. So every sermon is coming directly from scripture, which is great because that guarantees that there are timeless truths that are constantly applicable to our lives. This is a great resource because whether you're driving, whether you're cleaning the house, whether you're working out, you can always benefit from hearing the word of God spoken into your life. And God's word is always going to do something new for you every time you hear it.

Sometimes it's conviction and sometimes it's encouragement. But know that every time you listen to God's word, you're inviting the Holy Spirit to move and work in your life. You guys can check out the sermons by Abbadon Shaw, PhD podcast. First and foremost, check it out on our church app. That's the Clearview app. You can get that in the Google Play Store.

You can get that on iTunes. But you can also find the podcast on the Apple podcast app or on our website at ClearviewBC.org. And listen, if you've got a little extra time on your hands, you just want to do some further reading. You can also read the transcripts of those sermons.

Those are available on Dr. Shaw's website AbbadonShaw.com. And we're going to leave you guys a little link in the description so you can follow it. But for right now, David, let's hop back in.

All right. Welcome back to Clear View Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com. Or if you have any questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text at 252-582-5028. That's right. If you're just tuning in for the first time today, we want to welcome you to the show, let you know who's talking to you. Dr. Abbadon Shaw is a PhD in New Testament Criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and host of today's show. You can find all of his work on his website.

That's AbbadonShaw.com. That's right. As we're getting started, I just want to say thank you for an opportunity like this to dig deep into different concepts about the Bible or different things related to church history. It's such a privilege to just be able to explore this with you. And it's a privilege to sit down with you guys because you guys are the best hosts.

Yeah. I mean, you are. I mean, it's not just me, you know, pouring all this knowledge, but it's just, it's like friends talking and we share and we talk and we ask questions and we laugh. I mean, just, it just works. We're very, very grateful for the opportunities that we have, but I'm grateful right now to be talking about Malachi because I'm going to tell you, I have really been enjoying this series. Oh man. I loved it when, when the first time you preached through this series, Counter-Shock here at our church and just to kind of dive back into it and get back into that content. It's so exciting.

There's so much in the book of Malachi. Well, last time we, I began with that joke, you know, and I'm not good at telling jokes. So it was a funny one. And the thing is, you know, people have heard that one before because this thing about this volunteer fire department kind of flying in without their breaks. Jerry Clower, I don't know if you remember Jerry Clower, you know, from Yazoo City, Mississippi. He used to tell this joke, but, but he would talk about the lead betters, the family lead betters, you know, from his hometown.

And who knows if they were really real people or not, but he made that up. And if you want to know, I mean, they kind of always reminded me of on the Andy Griffith show, they used to have those, that one family that used to come down from the Hills. That was the Darling family. The Darling family. Oh yeah. I remember her. I remember her whole big, proofy like Dolly Parton hair.

Real, real pretty girl. And, but, but, uh, just like, Oh my word, you guys are weird. These people are like, yikes. And the brothers too, like no smile. Hey boys.

They just look at you. It's just that kind of blank kind of expressionless look. Yeah. So anyways, but, you know, we're talking about fire. We're talking about a different kind of fire. The refining fire of God. So it's, it's interesting because it's coming off of this, like you said yesterday, this kind of courtroom drama, this like, this like kind of cross examination where God is just, he's fed up with, with the attitude and the hearts of his people being bitter. And I can kind of understand, cause at this point they're back in the land after, so there's after the Babylonian exile, they've, they've sort of lost their spiritual identity or whatever, but now it's getting to a point where it's like, okay, I'm feeling sorry for myself.

Now I'm going to aim that bitterness at God directly. I mean, you brought this out. Exactly.

I was, that's what I was going to say. You brought this out in yesterday's episode where there was almost like they're being sarcastic. There was an irreverence in their attitude toward God. Maybe God just rewards people who are wicked.

The Vogue language would be, they are being passive aggressive. Like where something's going on in the church that you don't like. And you're like, well, I guess that's just how the church was. Sometimes we, I didn't think you would be, you know, they just do things that way.

Yeah. I didn't think you'd be rewarding bad behavior, but apparently that's what the church does. That's what God does. That's exactly how they were talking about God this time. You playing with fire.

I got to say, you were speaking of fire. And God says, I'm tired of your words. And their question is like, you know, what do you mean by what you're tired? What do you mean by we've tired him with our words? You know, it's in the way you say things about God. So God says, here's what I'm going to do. Behold, I send my messenger and he will prepare the way before me and the Lord whom you seek.

I mean, and that's a very important statement. We covered this the last time, you know, we often think that Jesus came as promised in the scriptures, but the Jewish people were looking for a whole different kind of Messiah, or he was like, you know, not going to be, that's not really true. I think, I don't know where we get this, this idea from that they were looking for somebody completely different and Jesus didn't fit the bill.

No, no, no. Jesus fit the bill. They just didn't like Jesus.

They didn't like the bill, you know, they were waiting on him until he came and he began to do everything the scripture said about him. And they're like, Oh, but one, we don't like him because he's from Nazareth. He's from the riffraff part of the country. We thought he was going to be from here.

Well, he is from there. He's, he's also, you know, from, you know, right here in Bethlehem, but, but they still didn't get it. So now God is telling them the Lord whom you seek, you want him? You want me to come? I'm coming. He's going to suddenly come to his temple.

And guess what? Even the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight means you're so passionate about this Elijah figure to come back. Oh, he's coming too, says the Lord of hosts. So messenger of the covenant.

Let me say a word about that very quickly. Who is this Lord? And who is the messenger of the covenant? As you know here, we're talking about the Hebrew word for Lord is hard on, which is God. The word messenger is Malek, which is also angel. So angel of the covenant is none other than the angel of the Lord. So here in we're referring to John, the Baptist is coming, but Jesus Christ is also the messenger of the covenant. Hebrews 12, 24 says, Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant, all these are part of the promises. And, but, but what will he do?

Here's where I wanted to go with this. Who can endure the day of his coming and who can stand when he appears means you are hoping for him to come. But here's the interesting part. When he comes, you won't be able to stand it. They thought God was coming to kind of make their dreams come true, kind of come sort of clouds and be this God of, okay, now I'm here for, to deliver you and to give you. But this was not a surprise when Jesus came.

That's why sometimes we say that even theologians and scholars tend to say that, that, that he didn't fit the bill. No, no, Jesus, God warned them when he comes, you're not going to like it. And just as, and they didn't promise, he didn't, they didn't like it. It almost makes me think of like parents telling their kids like, Hey, this is coming. It's going to, you're not going to love it.

It's going to happen. And the kids get there and like, Oh, but I don't like this. And they're surprised like, yeah, mom and dad told you this was happening, but this is not, there's not a secret. This is not news. We told you this was coming, but even more so because this is God communicating with his people. Right.

Right. So put it all together. People of Israel were murmuring about God being nowhere to be found. God says, Oh, you want to find me?

I'm coming. It's like Batman. When he, when he goes into the Joker's cell, you wanted me. Here I am. It's like, Oh, I don't want anymore. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. That's pretty much what's happening here. God says, here I am. And 2000 years ago it began with John the Baptist crying in the wilderness. Was he Elijah? In a sense he was, as I mentioned before, you know, if you remember the angel told Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist in Luke 1 17, he will also go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah. So it's not like Elijah is coming back, but it's the same spirit, the same power, which Elijah came.

That's what I was going to ask. Is it, is he a symbolic representation of Elijah or is it like God is giving him the same power and authority that he would say? So same, same power and authority, because people ask Jesus the same thing. Was he Elijah?

You know, that was a big question. Was John the Baptist Elijah? And Jesus said in Matthew 11 14, if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. But again, hermeneutics, exegesis, he is coming in the power and spirit of Elijah. I think Elijah is one of those prophets that I specifically don't know much about.

Maybe, maybe after Malachi, maybe we can find some time in like May or June, maybe over the summer, go through Elijah, because that's one where just, just personally, I haven't read a lot and I don't know much about Elijah because he seems to be a very, very big deal. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's fascinating. His entire life, his escapades, his adventures, his misadventures, sometimes it just throws up. Then his disciple, Elisha is quite interesting too.

Yeah. Like to the Jewish people, David is a huge deal, but it also seems like Elijah is a very, very big figure. Very big, especially in the post-exilic period. It became, he became a big deal. Was he, did he live before or after the exile? Oh, he lived before. Before. Oh yes. Okay. Yes. So once the exile was over, they started looking back towards Elijah. Okay. I see.

I'd be very interested to talk about that. I love that we're in Malachi and you know, Malachi is the end of the Old Testament and then we have those 400 years of silence in between the testaments. Like we have God just silent, not that he was absent, that God was still working, God was still moving, but silent between Malachi and between John the Baptist. But this, this moment in Malachi almost forces us to look ahead to John the Baptist. Like, Hey, you're about to enter 400 years of silence, but trust that I've got a plan on the other side. Trust that this, this person is coming.

Look ahead to what I'm doing. I love that, that, that glimpse in Malachi even, even arches over the 400 years of silence. Oh yes, of course. And when John the Baptist comes, I mean, if you pay attention to his preaching, you know, this is a connection directly to Malachi. So Matthew 3.11, he says, I baptize you. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but he is who is coming after me is mightier than I whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. I mean, he's pretty much like, turn the page from Malachi and it's John the Baptist, albeit the, the distance between the pages is about 400 years.

Wow. It's also interesting, I think, because we're seeing this conversation come up more and more where people are convinced that the water of baptism is that's, that's, what's going to deliver me unto salvation. But John the Baptist saying, listen, I'm baptizing you with water unto repentance, and that's important, but what he's about to bring, that's where the salvation is.

Like this is a, we're looking forward to his coming. And that's also interesting too, because typically when I think of baptism, I think of you get saved, then baptism, but he's saying, hey, listen, I'm baptizing you, but the salvation is actually still coming. This is a different way of thinking about it.

That's, that's interesting to me. And then with the coming of Jesus is almost like the baptism now becomes post-salvation, you know, here was pre-salvation, not that baptism saves you, but it prepares you for what's about to come. That's true because if baptism saved them, then he could just say, hey, listen, I'm going to baptize you with water unto repentance.

You're good. Why, why look forward to Jesus? This is why, you know, these people who argue and fuss about baptismal regeneration, which is a heresy, just want to go and put it out there. It's like, come on, take some time, do proper exegesis, get the timeline straight, see what John the Baptist is saying, compare that to what Jesus says, compare that to what happens in the church.

There are differences. If you switch the order, it's like, why don't I like avoid certain trees and fruits? Well, you don't have to do that. Well, I mean, but God told him not to touch that tree. Where is the tree, pastor? Well, I don't know.

We don't have a tree left anymore. You can eat whatever you want to, but salvation is here. Well, you're, you're trying to switch back and forth.

You can't do that, you know? That's right. And so the people who try to put baptism, you know, pre-salvation, it's a whole, it's so such a misunderstanding because what it meant for those people in John the Baptist's time is not what Jesus commanded and what Paul explained. Different things, right?

Same or right, but has very different meanings now. So here, John the Baptist, just like our John explained, you know, he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in his hand. You know, this is what they would use to, you know, separate the wheat from the chaff.

His winnowing fan is in his hand. You know, they would fan this as they would drop the wheat and the chaff would blow away and the grains would fall into the ground and he will thoroughly clean out his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. So did Jesus do that? I mean, if you read the gospels carefully, look at how he is talking to the religious leaders, you know, woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, you know, calls them a den of thieves. He curses a fig tree.

He tells them, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. I mean, he is letting them have it. That's called threshing. Yeah. Yeah. And he's getting a threshing. They're getting a threshing on the threshing floor, I guess.

I think that'll work. Yeah. It's, it's, it's funny because he's, they didn't like him because he was doing these things, but God, it's like you said, God said, when he comes, he's going to come in judgment. You're not going to like it. I don't like it. Yeah. So that those who may, who see may be made blind.

Wow. But now, you know, the mistake people make is thinking that Jesus came, all he came to do was to be our savior. Don't forget. He also came as our judge.

And ever since then, he has been doing both in our lives. He will complete his task for the people of Israel. That's still to come.

That's why we believe that there's still purpose for national Israel, albeit it's going to be in the end of times. And we just have to wait and see what that will look like. I was just about to ask, do we know what that task is? Or is that something that only he knows? No, there are the hints given.

And even this right here is a hint. We're about to get into that. Okay. In some ways, Jesus did this, but in some ways he is still going to do this.

Okay. You know, the prophecies, as you know, in a sense, they are like mountain peaks on when you look at those mountain peaks from this angle, you see one peak after another, but there is massive gaps and valleys between them. So on one level, you see the cross and the refining already happened, but another level you go, wait, oh, turn to the side. Oh, there's still thousands of years in between. And this refining is still to happen.

But the principle of refining, how God refines his children, is applicable in every generation. Yeah, absolutely. What does that look like? I mean, we can go into that now.

Yeah, let's see it. I love that idea of refining because it's, I mean, as you're going through the fire, as the metal is going through the fire being refined, if the metal could talk to us, it probably wouldn't feel good. Right. I mean, it's hot. It requires the metal to melt down. But that refining is to make the metal purer. Yeah, it burns the iniquities away. All of those imperfections and all those things that can be burned away so that only what's pure remains are burned away. So I love that picture for us.

Yeah. So verse two, this is Malachi chapter three, verse two. For he is like a refiner's fire and like launderer's soap. He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver. He will purify the sons of Levi and purge them as gold and silver that they may offer to the Lord and offering in righteousness.

So how does this work? You know, growing up, I remember going to the goldsmith and the silversmith's shops in India. You know, every major town has those. And cities definitely have tons of those. So you go down this road and every shop is a goldsmith, silversmith shop. Wow. Really? Yeah.

And you don't go to every one of them because you know who is honest, who you have built a relationship with, who knows you, who you know them. So mom and dad had this one shop or two where they would go to get gold, mostly gold. And I remember watching them at work and that what they would do is you know, nowadays everything is very sophisticated. But back in those days, they would sit on the ground and in front of them, there would be like a portable furnace.

Okay. They would place the silver into this pan and hold it over the fire. And it would, you know, just turn up the heat. And after a few moments, the silver would turn into molten state. It'd be like kind of, kind of liquid.

Yeah. As, you know, as it over melts, you know, it becomes kind of into liquid state and the dross, the impurities that are in the silver will sort of rise to the surface. So a silversmith would then take a small scalpel, not, not something big, like a pair of tongs or anything, just little tiny scalpel. And he would remove the impurity and, and kind of like scrape it away on the side. So as I, I see as the heat gets hotter, the impurities become more and more visible and he can take them away. He takes them away.

Yeah. And, and he would stoke the fire even more and some more impurities would rise to the surface and he would keep scraping them off. I mean, this is the process of refining it and I was always fascinated to watch this and, and time and again, what he would do is kind of sit up, you know, he would be sitting like cross legged, but he would sit up and look into the pan in which the silver was. And the question is, what is he looking for? He's looking for his reflection when, when, when he can, you know, silver in its purest form turns into liquid mirror. So when he can see his reflection, he knows the silver is refined.

That's the refining of silver. That's how it is done to this day. It's done. So same thing with us. God allows trials to come into our lives, problems to come into our lives, physical problems, financial problems, relationship problems, which are sometimes the worst. You know, the uncertainties and the craziness of this world, all these things are to purify us. God is not against us. He's refining us. And so losing people in our lives, losing jobs, losing health, all these things are God's way of turning up the heat. And the question is, when are we ready?

When are we refined? When he can see the face of his son Jesus reflected in us, that's when he knows. An ultimate goal is for us to look like Jesus. And that's what we have to remember as we're going through trials is, am I looking more and more like Jesus?

Not just I'm looking for Jesus, but am I looking more like Him? Because that is God's goal. That's the Father's goal in taking us through the sufferings of life and through the refining process to make us more like Jesus.

And that is an active sanctification process that believers go through all their lives. We hate it sometimes. We don't like it. We want to get out of it. We want to get out of the fire. You know, get me out of here.

Get me out of here. I'm done. And the whole time our response should actually be every moment, whether it's in the high times of life or low times of life, whether it is in the midst of trials or the midst of triumph, whether it is in solitude or whether it is with a bunch of people around.

It doesn't matter. You should actively sing, God, I submit myself to you and tell you whatever you need to do, keep doing and be glorified in my life so that Jesus will shine. That's the goal. Amen.

That's such a beautiful picture for us. If you guys enjoyed today's episode, you have questions or suggestions for new topics, send us a text to 252-582-5028. You can also visit us online at ClearViewTodayShow.com, and you can partner with us financially on that same website. As you click that button to give, it's going to bring up a menu of giving options.

In that memo field, just put Clear View Today so we'll know that you're a listener to this show, we'll know that you're a giving partner for us, and we'd love to send you something in the mail as just a way of saying thank you for supporting us, for partnering with us as we reach the nations with the gospel. That's exactly right. We had a fun question today coming in from Jonathan P. Dr. Shah, you can only choose one Mexican dish to eat for the rest of your life. Which one? That's a tough one, but the one that I always go to is beef steak picado. Yeah? Yeah. Beef steak picado.

Nice. Yeah, it's great. I don't know if Mexican people eat it or not, but I think it's Tex-Mex, but it's great. And it's delicious. It's on the menu?

I've been to Mexico twice in the Yucatan area. Cannot find beef steak picado. What are you talking about? Interesting. I said beef steak picado. Don't you know the famous Mexican dish? Never heard of it. Never heard of that. Oh, okay. Interesting. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clear Beat Today.