Essential Church

Hello, everyone.

Today is Monday, January the 16th. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Hey! I'm back! You're back! I'm back!

Welcome back! I have a baby. Hang on, let me grab the baby. Wait a minute.

Surprise! He's not here. I don't got the baby. He's not here.

Baby's not here. Well, and you're listening to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can find us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have a question for Dr. Shah or a suggestion for a future episode, send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also email us at contact at ClearviewTodayShow.com.

That's right. You guys can help us keep this conversation going by supporting this podcast, sharing it online, and leaving us a good review on iTunes. We're going to leave a link in the description of this podcast and this radio show, so you can help us do just that.

How would you leave a link in the description of the radio show? I'm going to be like, hey. Okay, so basically, it'll be H-T-T-P-S-P-S-P-S. Here it is. I'm going to give it to you. H-T-T-P-colon-slash-slash-Clearview-Today-Show-dot-com, U-R-L-2-4-9-6-8-1-3-5-0-7-8-9-2-4.

Someone is furiously holding it. I'm like, click! Click the link!

Wait, I'm dropping! Oh, no! I'm just joking. That's not funny. Yeah, don't click a link while you're doing it.

That's not funny. Shall we do the verse of the day? Yeah, we need to.

I need a little bit of Jesus. Do you want to read the verse of the day since it's your first time back on the show? Yeah, I'll do it.

Why don't you read it? I'll do it. It's your first day back on the show. Thank you, my friend. That means a lot. 2 Corinthians 4-5, For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants, for Jesus' sake.

Yeah, that's true even for the show. You know what I mean? The message is not us. We're not preaching ourselves. We're preaching Jesus.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. I feel like that's especially important in a culture of self-promotion, in a culture where people are like, look at me, I'm the next greatest thing. I mean, essentially all social media is, is let me put my content out there so people will come and look at me. That's all it is.

That's all. Honestly, that's a lot of what podcasting is. It's just a hustle. It's just a hustle.

You're so right. It's not about us. It's about him.

It's about Jesus. That being said, follow me on the Gram. I'm joking. I don't even have an Instagram. But who you should follow on Instagram is The Cleary Today Show. That's right, because we're not promoting ourselves.

We're not promoting anybody but Jesus Christ our Lord. That's right. All right. I got to talk about it. The baby? Yeah.

I'm so sleepy. I know. This little man. But he's so cute. He's cute.

He's so cute. Gosh, I was holding him a couple of days ago. Holden is his name. You were Holden?

I was Holden Holden, which doesn't get old to say. Hey, Nicholas, put a picture of him right here in the video. Look at him. Look at his little face. Look at his little face. I was holding him and I forgot. I mean, you just forget how small babies are. And I was holding him and I was like, gosh, he's so little. And he was just so still and so quiet. And then he started crying because he farted.

Yeah, and that's going to happen, man. He's a farty boy. He is a gassy tot. He's a gassy tot. He's a gassy little tight. I am a gassy tot. He is a gassy tot.

How was the adjustment to a family of four now? It's kind of endearing. I'm getting into things that I wasn't into before.

Like I told Ellie, I was looking at him and Gavin together and I was like, we need to get some like pictures, like professional pictures of never in a million years would I have ever wanted that or thought of that. I mean, it's just, it's fun, man. It's fun. And I'm liking going places together as a family. I'm enjoying just being a family of four. I don't know.

I mean, it's crazy. I think I'm ready to go on ahead and have another. I think I'm ready.

Is Ellie prepared for that? No. No. Goodness. No. There was some heated discussion on that topic.

I mean, I think it's going to happen, but it's not going to happen in the next like at least week. Not any. Yeah.

I don't think so. I think you need to give a little bit of a buffer. He's sleeping well. Last night he gave me six hours. Six hours? Yeah. That's really good.

It's pretty good. I mean, Gavin slept through the night starting at around four months. So fingers crossed. But the thing is like with Gavin, we had principles. It was like, no matter how much he cries, he is not getting in this bed.

I think it wasn't even four days in. I was like, put his little behind in the bed. Get him in the bed and just let's go to sleep.

The more kids you have, the fewer principles you retain. I really am not standing on my principles hard with Holden. I'm like, you know what? Put him in the bed. Let's give what he can have it. Well, it helps that he is so cute. Yeah.

It helps. He's cute. And hopefully, and Gavin sleeps on the completely other side of the house, so he don't even know.

He don't even know. Well, we've got a really exciting episode for you guys today. We're going to get Dr. Sean in just a second, but if you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, make sure you send us a text at 252-582-5028 or visit us online at cleaviewtodayshow.com. We'll be back after this. Hey everyone.

My name is Illie. And I'm David. We want to take a minute and let you know how we can actually serve you as you're listening to Clearview today. The Bible paints an extraordinary picture of who we are as a church body. The mission of Clearview church is to lead all people into a life changing, ever-growing relationship with Jesus Christ. A huge part of leading people is praying for them. A big reason that Christians have unanswered prayers in their life is because they're not praying.

You know, first John 5, 15 says, and if we know that he hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of him. If you're listening to the Clearview today show, we want to know how we can pray for you as well. There's a number of ways that you can get in touch with us at Clearview and share your prayer requests, but the best way is by texting us at 252-582-5028. You can also send us an email at prayer at Clearviewbc.org, or you can download the Clearview app on iTunes or Google play. You know, on the app, there's a dedicated prayer wall that helps us to get to know what's going on in your life, how we can pray for you and how we can take any necessary steps to get you moving in the right direction. Thanks for listening. Now let's get back to the show.

Hey there, listeners, I'm John Galantis, and I'm Ellie Galantis. And we just want to take a quick second and talk to you about Dr. Shah's and Nicole's book, 30 Days to a New Beginning, Daily Devotions to Help You Move Forward. You know, this is actually the second book in the 30 Days series. And the whole point of this devotional is to help us get unstuck from the ruts of life. You know, when it comes to running the race of life, it matters how you start, but a bad start doesn't ultimately determine how you finish the race. You can have a good finish even with a bad start. And that's where this book comes in. No matter who you are or where you are in life, you're going to get stuck.

Instead of going out and buying some gadget or some planner, like I know I've done several times. I know that's right. 30 Days encourages you to find your fresh start in God's word. Life doesn't have a reset button, but our God is a God who does new things.

His mercies are new every day, which means every day is a new chance for you to start over. You can grab 30 Days to a New Beginning on Amazon.com. We're going to leave a link in the description box below. And if you already have the book, let us know what you think about it.

That's right. Send us a text, 252-582-5028. Share what God has done in your life through this devotional. Hey, maybe we'll even read your story on the air. Ellie, you ready to get back to the show?

Let's do it. Welcome back to Clearview Today with Dr. Abbadon Shaw, the daily show that engages mind and heart with the gospel of Jesus Christ. You can visit us online at ClearviewTodayShow.com. If you have any questions or suggestions for future episodes, send us a text at 252-582-5028. Dr. Shaw, welcome to the studio today.

The table has been reassembled. Yeah. It looks nice, man. And I love it. It's really nice. I was talking about three of us.

Oh, I thought you were talking about like the set decorations. No. I was like, the table's the same. Like the boys are back together.

The boys are back in town. Yes. I'm with you.

I'm with you. Who was the group? What do you mean? Who was the group? Who sang that? Oh, shoot.

The boys are back in town. I don't know. Thin Lizzy. Thin Lizzy. Very nice. I did not know that.

If I had a million guesses, I wouldn't have got Thin Lizzy. I did not know that. Yeah. It's good to have all three of us back at the table together. It's good to see you guys again. I missed you guys. I miss David sitting there. We got used to him being there last week.

He was a nice addition, but- Yeah. I listened to the episodes. It was really good.

I didn't realize. There was one point where he said something like, you know, he was like, I don't know how Jon does this every single week. I looked at Ellie. I was like, you know, I put the script in front of me and I read it. Oddly enough, that's the secret. There's no magic trick to it. I just kind of read it. It is tough. It is tough. You did a good job, Dave.

You did a very good job. Well, listen, if you guys are joining us for the first time, Dr. Abadan Shah is a PhD in New Testament textual criticism, professor at Carolina University, author, full-time pastor, and the host of today's show. If you want to follow his work, you can do so by going to his website.

That's AbadanShah.com. That's right. Dr. Shah, we're talking about church today. I know that's kind of fitting for where we are. Obviously, we're recording inside of a church. This is not a downtown Los Angeles recording studio, gang. This is a church.

Believe it or not. We're talking specifically, not just about the building, not just about the structure, but we're talking about church being essential, meeting together being essential. There was a push not that long ago to make church an unessential part of our culture. Is that a word? Unessential? Inessential? Innocent? No.

Non-essential. That's how it is. Unfortunately, many of the proponents of that came from inside the church.

Yeah. And that's the shocking thing. When we say that's so sad and so wrong, we're not in any way saying that the pandemic wasn't real. We're not saying that people should not listen to those who had a good knowledge of the sickness and the precautions that needed to be taken. We're not even suggesting that we should be reckless with the lives of people who are elderly or people with pre-existing conditions or children or infants.

None of that. We're saying yes, all those things are important. But if we are going to allow other institutions to be open and call them essentials, but then when it comes to faith to say that's not an essential. Like for example, in some place like even out west, there was a church that the pastor came out looking like a bartender.

And so it kind of looked really odd. What in the world would you just go off the rocker? What he was doing was saying, if you're going to say that bars are essential. Hey, guess what, guys? We're going to be a bar today. I'll play the part. You want to go there? I'll do it.

We will maybe pass out communion or something. I wouldn't do something like that. But what I'm saying is, I think that's a great point he was trying to make. And the point was this.

If you're going to say that a bar where people can go and drink up and lose their minds or go off the road and hit somebody, but church where people come to get their lives right, to be in a right relationship with God and with the right relationship with their loved ones, in the right relationship with their community. Oh no, that's not as important. But yeah, let's do that. That's the real heart of what we're saying. We're not saying sicknesses don't matter. No, all that is great. All that is important. But when it comes to essentiality, church should never be put in a second or third tier. It is essential because we are not just physical bodies.

We're also minds and hearts and spirits. So that is pretty much all my beef is about this matter. That's it.

That's it. It's a very telling sign of where priorities lie. It was crazy to me. I could completely understand if it was coming from the secular world or from the government or from wherever. But to be coming from inside the church... Ellie and I are part of a Facebook forum about church text and church stage design and technology and all that stuff. And so a bunch of stuff that we were seeing during that 2020 period was, hey guys, look, let's be for real. We are not that essential. We can do this stuff from home. What we get to do every week is a luxury.

We saw that nonstop. And I was like, how do people think this of their own living? That's your position. Why are you undermining your own position?

Because people... it was very telling because that's what they saw themselves as. I guess so. I am not as important as a medical doctor. So yeah, that's all that is good and well, but hey, I am not that important. We can all talk about this Jesus stuff later on.

Now here's my question. If somebody is really sick or somebody is in a wreck or somebody is on the verge of passing away, yes, give them the best medical care. But don't you think they need to hear the gospel too?

Yes, absolutely. I mean, if we truly believe that there is an eternity and without Jesus Christ, people are lost forever. And when I say lost forever, let's get very specific about that. There's a hell on the other side. It's a place of burning forever. And if you have problem with hell or if you have problem with the idea of punishment, take it up with Jesus because he talked about hell more than any other prophet preacher in the Bible. The son of God himself talked about hell. So we need to keep that in mind that we are people standing in the way to keep people from going over the edge into an eternity of punishment.

That's right. I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of times it was pointed, like you said, to the medical professionals. And obviously, it's important to have doctors. Obviously, it's important to make sure that our physical bodies are taken care of. And if there's sickness out there, it's important to have doctors and nurses who are able to care for us. But like you said, if we believe in eternity, if we believe that there are eternal stakes here, I would argue that our job is even more essential because while our life here is important, it's temporary. Eternity, by definition, is forever.

It's forever. And keep in mind, we're not the ones saying that doctors are inessential. So it's almost insulting that we have to clarify this hard. Like, of course, listen, guys, we realize that doctors, they're all essential, but we never said that they weren't. We're the ones... We never said doctors need to stay home.

Exactly. We only let pastors out there. Never once. I didn't hear one single church or pastor say, hey, listen, hospitals need to be shutting down. People need Jesus and nothing else.

I never heard that once. No, the only thing was we're essential too. Yeah.

So for us to sit here and have to clarify that you guys are essential is almost just as twisted. Yeah. It's odd. It was a big, odd thing. And I think it was... I think people in the church just forgot that it was not designed this way.

It was just never designed to be lived in isolation or to be put in a lower status. Then I believe some of it was just people reacting to the moment, just don't know what to do. So, hey, okay, they're told to shut down. Let's listen and let's do what we're told for the greater good.

But I also believe that there were ulterior motives shut down the church because there are people in this country right now who are very antagonistic towards Christianity, towards faith. And so there's ulterior motives. So why...

I get it. Let's listen to the experts. Let's listen to people who genuinely care about your health. But how about those people who are also standing there?

They don't genuinely care about your health, but they have an agenda and the agenda is this. Hey, this is a great opportunity for these Christians to go away, not just for a while, maybe for good. And why would I give in to that? Why should you as a believer give in to that?

We're not gonna sit here and pretend that this crisis or really any crisis in human history doesn't have people in power taking opportunity of it. Absolutely. And we talked about that on a previous episode, on our tyranny episodes, but for us, not just us three, but for us as a church and I think just as an American people to sit here and pretend that that doesn't happen, that that didn't happen is disingenuous. And we can't have a conversation if we don't come from that standpoint.

Yeah. And the concept of people losing the desire, losing the drive to meet together as a church is not new. It's an old problem. It comes from a message that you preached not so long ago from the book of Hebrews, where we can outline, you know, this is something that people have been struggling with. This isn't new. It's something that's been an ongoing issue for God's people.

Right. Connection is an ongoing issue. I had a young person talk to me just this Sunday night, a genuine, genuine person and genuinely trying to reconnect. And this person shared with me that it's hard for them to connect anyways. They're more introverted, shy. So with all that happened the past couple of years, they felt like, or this person felt like, and the person's family, that they had really gone off the grid, you know, not just that they're shy and introverted, but because of the past two years, it's like connections just stopped. And they themselves felt that they need to step forward and connect.

Okay. That's rare. Maybe it's not as rare because, you know, this entire season has been one of unprecedented. So maybe this is more natural than we're claiming it to be. But this person felt like they had to step out. And so they sat with me and just talked and said, I hope I'm not being weird.

I said, no, you're not being weird. Just, just share whatever is on your heart. Share. I'm here to listen. And there is no judgment here. There's not, I'm not preaching right now.

This is not a radio show. This is just you talking about your fears during the pandemic or, or just your natural tendency to just, you know, clam up or, or just kind of retreat. And it was good to hear them say, we feel like as Christians, we have to connect, right? I'm like, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's how we were designed to be.

That's right. And it's good that you were there to talk to her because that was a big part of our, I don't want to say campaign, but our mindset during that 2020, 2021 kind of span when all that was happening is that it's going to take other Christians. You know, we're going to pray that God would move, but God is also placing people in our lives. That's what that song Thousands More was about. Ultimately, that's kind of what the gathering was about, that there's people in our lives and you were there for that person to kind of urge them to come back together and hold them accountable for, you know, their, their role in the church.

Exactly. And that's, that's, and I want to encourage people who are listening, you know, you may be the one who is still kind of just hanging back or you may know people who are hanging back. I just want to tell you that is not normal.

That is not natural. They are being influenced. They're being influenced by the television. They're being influenced, influenced by their, their phones.

Okay. We have these things that we're carrying around that are more powerful than any supercomputer from 30, 40 years ago. They're carrying those things that they're not neutral. They are talking to them.

They are influencing them. So when we say come together, it's for influence, it's for impact. I know you have a relationship with Jesus Christ without coming to church, but that's not how God designed us just to have a relationship with him.

We are also to relate with each other because that completes that triangle. I have a, I have a question for you and it's, it may be, it maybe just give me some insight because when we talk about like live streaming and using the internet to have a church experience, that's relatively new. But by the, even by the time I got saved in 2007, like church on TV had been a thing like televangelists and tell, cause I feel like now people are using the live stream and the church live stream just to replace going to church. Did we see that on a lesser scale with sermons on TV?

Did people still do that kind of thing? Like just did, but not, there was a time when, and still there is in places where there are not any good Bible believing churches. There are churches, but they're not Bible believing churches. What do we mean by Bible believing means they're, they're preaching from the word of God. I'm not saying that each of those pastors will be dynamic preachers or you know, that the super preachers who just amazing when it comes to dividing the word of God and applying the word of God and they just have a dynamic personality and just have that, that voice, that cadence.

But they are doing the best they can, right? They are preaching from the Bible. They're trying the best they can to explain the word of God to you and apply it to your life. But there have been times where people were in areas where there were no Bible believing churches and going to the churches around there was actually detrimental to their spiritual health. So they backed away and then they would attend churches on television and send their tides in. I don't blame them for that. You know, when your church is actually not preaching the word, again, let me clarify, your pastor may not be the one like a Billy Graham or you know, name, name your favorite pastor, preacher, but they're doing the best they can.

And it's pretty awesome to see that they're not perfect people, but they're trying. Yeah. Go to that church. But when there is nothing like that, that's when you go, I understand why you have to watch on TV. Right. I understand why you need that spiritual food.

And now I understand why you don't want to support that church and send that money, your tides, your offerings to that church you're watching on television. I get it. Yeah. So same thing with social media. Yeah. We have people like that who are watching us online from far away.

They send us their tides, their offerings, and that's great. But we will never say, you know, okay, so don't join that local church, which is in your community, but join us who we are six hours away. Right. And, you know, that's it. And never serve.

No, we'd never say that. You need to connect. Right.

Because you're making a trade. I'm trading good biblical preaching for connection when you can really have both. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Come watch us online. But at the same time, you know, make the connection wherever you are. Right. You know, do the best you can with whom whoever God has placed in your life.

If there's absolutely nobody, hey, please just stay online. Yeah. And also for people who are sick or have health issues, we have we have several families in our church who haven't been able to come for several years now. That's true.

And I'm really referring to 2020 and till now. And we understand. We give them care. We give them support. We give them give them love and understanding. But we know this is what they have to endure.

Right. But if you really ask them, they want to be here when those people are still actively seeking ways to connect with us, even if it's not in person, they're they're communicating, they're they're relating to people who are here, even if it's remotely, they're still seeking that connection, which is the big thing. It's not just I'm going to sit back and I'm going to absorb this content. No, I want to be a part of this community.

I want to be a part of this this group of people. Look at what we're doing right now. Yeah. We I mean, we didn't get a daily show because it was fun for us. We wanted to connect with you guys.

There's a phone number that Ryan says three or four times every episode for that exact reason, because when human connection does become impossible, we want to give you every resource that we can. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. And it is fun for us, by the way. I mean, it's fun for us, but I'm saying that's not. I'm just teasing. And it's fun for the people listening, because listen, I hear so much, not as much about what I'm talking about, but about you guys and your manager. They love that.

They say those guys are funny. Well, I said, what did you hear about from me? Oh, you were good, too.

Yeah, you were good, too. Come on, man. There, y'all. It's fun. I mean, it's all of us working together.

David and Nick behind the scenes and your leadership, Dr. Shah, and John, the work you put in organizing everything. It's a blast. It's a lot of fun.

It's a team effort. And the thing is, we've seen more because we had a show before this. We had a weekly show before this. And we've seen so much more engagement when it's a daily show.

So much more. I mean, I think God, in His timing, just worked a wonder in our lives, and I think in your lives. And He's using this show to do that. And it's just been a great testimony to be able to see it come to fruition right in front of our eyes. As we're closing out today, Dr. Shah, I want to take a second. If people are interacting with someone in their life who maybe has that mindset of, I don't really need to go to church.

I'm just going to watch online or it's not necessary for me to be involved. What are some Bible verses that they can point people to that kind of re-emphasize the fact that, hey, church is essential? Well, you sort of were bringing up Hebrews chapter 10, verse 24, where it says, And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching. This is from the first century AD. This is barely maybe 30, 40 years after the ascension of Christ, or maybe 30, 40 years from the day of Pentecost when the church was born. And already people are forsaking the assembling of themselves together. Already they are losing their love and their good works. And I believe Paul wrote Hebrews.

I know there are some great grammarians who claim that this is not Paul's Greek, but I have some other people on the other side, scholars who claim that this is Paul saying these words based on some of the things the letter to the Hebrews talks about. But maybe on another radio show, we can talk about this, because there are several statements made, actually five warning passages in Hebrews that talk about this thing, of this group. I believe it was a small group out of a big church. They were second generation Jewish background believers who were beginning to go back into the old religion.

That is the background of the book of Hebrews. Why were they going back? Why were they detaching themselves with the overall group?

I don't know. Maybe because a lot of Gentiles were getting saved. Maybe because there was a sense of nostalgia that had come over them. We don't know exactly what was the reason behind this little group, part of a bigger group of second generation Jewish background believers that were drifting away.

And I believe Paul was saying to them, don't do that. Get back in. Going back is going to the inferior. Jesus is greater than Moses, greater than the prophets, greater than anything that you will find. He is greater than Aaron. You can't go back and enjoy the old anymore.

You've got to come back. So that's what I believe is the background here of the book of Hebrews. And I said thirty forty years, I would say even less. It was probably pre-temple. Wow. That's awesome.

Pre-temple destruction. Yeah. Very cool. Well, if you guys enjoyed today's topic or you have suggestions for future episodes, make sure you send us a text at 252-582-5028. You can also visit us online at clearveetodayshow.com. And don't forget, you can support us financially on that same website.

Every gift that you give goes to not only building up this radio show, but countless other ministries for the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's exactly right. We had a user submitted question, but actually David just sent me a quote that had everything that we were kind of talking about. So I'm going to save the question for tomorrow. This is from a guy named C.H.

Spurgeon. I don't know what that is. Sounds familiar, but I'm not sure. It's actually kind of heavy. It says, If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our dead bodies. If they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped around their knees, imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for. That's crazy.

That's why he was Charles Spurgeon. That's right. What a powerful statement. Wow. We love you guys. We'll see you tomorrow on Clearview today.